Idea to Revive Nirvana

Kuroimist - Archosaur

What everyone thing about this?

Camparing to Warsong and Lunar, with the EoD and EoO drops, that people can random or pay for the run and reserve... what if nirvana had a last boss with SoW drop? would it make it more appealing to farm? b:pleased

Tell what is your oppinion about this!! b:victory

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

No:
1. Nirvana as it currently is, is too easy.

2. Nation wars is already getting a decline on participants (well the game in general does), giving access to nation war only items through different means will just support that decline (see point 1).

Make vile versions of the bosses, crank the bosses power up by default a bit, change the drops to something more useful than raps/cannies, the shards are even worth more now, heck even a mirage celestone is better than a canny.

The entire instance, just like almost anything, needs an update.

Kuroimist - Archosaur

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No:
1. Nirvana as it currently is, is too easy.

2. Nation wars is already getting a decline on participants (well the game in general does), giving access to nation war only items through different means will just support that decline (see point 1).

Make vile versions of the bosses, crank the bosses power up by default a bit, change the drops to something more useful than raps/cannies, the shards are even worth more now, heck even a mirage celestone is better than a canny.

The entire instance, just like almost anything, needs an update.

SoW was one example and yes, making vile versions and such b:pleased

Zanryu - Lothranis

Oh is it This Thread Again o'clock already?

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

No.

To fix Nirvy;

1. make it about 10x times harder
2. anti aps bosses
3. add mechanics to the bosses that ensure you can only do it with at least 4 people (four corners of a room need to kill a mob that spawns within 5 seconds or the boss resets/disappears)
4. make a quest that upon instance completion gives boutique packs/war avatar treasure chests to each squad member
5. bosses drop random useful stuff like c packs 1* orbs etc

New set of keys to enter, you get 3 keys a day, with no option to buy more.

Haroin - Raging Tide

Kitty thinks they could add material mode to FC(dropping FC-mats) and make new attack-based gear sets to upgrade FC-Gold gears to(like more attack levels, crit rate and channel/int on some pieces but less Vit. and def. than on T3-gears) requiring some basic mats from Nirvana bosses(like Fragment of Reincarnation) and molds from Viles.

Vile: Vanished Ancestor would drop weapon molds which have a 60% chance for tertiary speed bonus(1x -0.05 int/-3% channel), 35% chance for secondary speed bonus(-0.10 int/-6% channel) and 5% chance for primary speed bonus(-0.15 int/-10% channeling), chance for 1-4% crit. rate and 15-30 attack levels when crafted. The -int would be possible for axes and sword-weapons too(currently G15/G16-blades and swords can't get -int on them).

To prevent APS-class abuse at making squads, AA-molds would only drop from caster nirvana.

This would also make farming TT80 useful again as FC-gold requires TT80-gold mats. And Frostcovered Sign-Forces would also become much more worthy. So it would revive 3 instances at once.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No.

To fix Nirvy;

1. make it about 10x times harder
Yes

2. anti aps bosses
Undecided, anti aps buffs aren't that affective if you have a half decent squad, not to mention that it doesn't affect archers/bows

3. add mechanics to the bosses that ensure you can only do it with at least 4 people (four corners of a room need to kill a mob that spawns within 5 seconds or the boss resets/disappears)
5 Seconds is too cruel and fast due to latency issues and the sizes of a room, even having the boss in the center of the room will cause this to be nothing than a PITA which will make people not want to do it, it's a good idea, but 5 seconds is too short IMO.

4. make a quest that upon instance completion gives boutique packs/war avatar treasure chests to each squad member
Perhaps, but they would have to put a limit on the chests per day if anything.

5. bosses drop random useful stuff like c packs 1* orbs etc
Pretty much my point with make it drop other things so agreed

New set of keys to enter, you get 3 keys a day, with no option to buy more.
Neutral on this, I don't see the problem with npc'ing the old keys, unless there is some use for those still after it

In the end it's all hopes, cause everyone knows this is very unlikely to happen because lulz china.

Haroin - Raging Tide wrote: »

-one big snip-

Christ use a different font colour already, it doesn't work well on the current forum layout, it's a pain to read your text.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

this is very unlikely to happen because lulz china.

Indeed.

/Forums

Kuroimist - Archosaur

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

Oh is it This Thread Again o'clock already?

Thank you for your sarcasm yet totally unneeded coment. If you have no usefull things to say please, do something usefull to everyone and stay out. b:pleased Thank you again have a good rest of whatever you're having.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

Kuroimist - Archosaur wrote: »

Thank you for your sarcasm yet totally unneeded coment. If you have no usefull things to say please, do something usefull to everyone and stay out. b:pleased Thank you again have a good rest of whatever you're having.

>There are at least 41 threads on Nirvana changes in the suggestion box alone


Dear OP, we've done this song and dance quite a few times. Changes wont come because China, no matter how much we cry about it. Now....as for your suggestion. No. SoWs should remain as an NW only prize as it serves as one of the few half-decent coin sink with the crafting fees involved and keeps some incentive towards participating in it aside from Uncanny/Raptures/Warsoul/R8r stuff

Kuroimist - Archosaur

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

>There are at least 41 threads on Nirvana changes in the suggestion box alone


Dear OP, we've done this song and dance quite a few times. Changes wont come because China, no matter how much we cry about it. Now....as for your suggestion. No. SoWs should remain as an NW only prize as it serves as one of the few half-decent coin sink with the crafting fees involved and keeps some incentive towards participating in it aside from Uncanny/Raptures/Warsoul/R8r stuff

Good, it show that a few more ideas\suggestions wont hurt. Actually might be a chance for a change.

Trying to help isn't a bad thing. At least someone do(even if 1000x the same). b:bye

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

Kuroimist - Archosaur wrote: »

Good, it show that a few more ideas\suggestions wont hurt.

It also shows that those suggestions were disregarded.

Actually might be a chance for a change.

Oh? Explain what makes you believe this if previously valid ideas weren't incorporated.

Trying to help isn't a bad thing. At least someone do(even if 1000x the same). b:bye

Its not, but it is may very well be a waste of time.

I wouldn't be surprised that if NV IS revamped, iit gets made into something similar to FSP where it'll be farmable in some way, but requires a cash-shop item for better rewards tbh

ShawtyStar - Raging Tide

Haroin - Raging Tide wrote: »

I think they could add material mode to FC(dropping FC-mats) and make new attack-based gear sets to upgrade FC-Gold gears to(like more attack levels, crit rate and channel/int on some pieces but less Vit. and def. than on T3-gears) requiring some basic mats from Nirvana bosses(like Fragment of Reincarnation) and molds from Viles.

Vile: Vanished Ancestor would drop weapon molds which have a 60% chance for tertiary speed bonus(1x -0.05 int/-3% channel), 35% chance for secondary speed bonus(-0.10 int/-6% channel) and 5% chance for primary speed bonus(-0.15 int/-10% channeling), chance for 1-4% crit. rate and 15-30 attack levels when crafted. The -int would be possible for axes and sword-weapons too(currently G15/G16-blades and swords can't get -int on them).

To prevent APS-class abuse at making squads, AA-molds would only drop from caster nirvana.

This would also make farming TT80 useful again as FC-gold requires TT80-gold mats. And Frostcovered Sign-Forces would also become much more worthy. So it would revive 3 instances at once.

Jesus it's so hard to red that Crappy Dark red next time us a brighter color...b:bye
and No To the SoW Nirvana Idea... Just make bosses Anti APS and Harder

Kuroimist - Archosaur

About the replies... say there are many reasons for not quit trying, may happen like the previous ones but i still don't care, and got pleanty of time now anyways. Rather try! :P

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised that if NV IS revamped, iit gets made into something similar to FSP where it'll be farmable in some way, but requires a cash-shop item for better rewards tbh

I don't doubt and actually i agree with that. b:chuckle its the more likely to happen since for some reason new instances seem to merge with boutique!

heerohex#3018

Well im gonna need to check the Logs again on this one.

For now please keep to the Topic and lets make this happen this time if we can!

Sweetiebot please tag this thread as red with note HOT TOPIC! Nirvana Ideas.

Thanks,

SweetieBot - Lothranis

heero200 wrote: »

Sweetiebot please tag this thread as red with note HOT TOPIC! Nirvana Ideas.

This thread has been tagged as red
Note: HOT TOPIC! Nirvana Ideas.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No.

To fix Nirvy;

1. make it about 10x times harder
2. anti aps bosses
3. add mechanics to the bosses that ensure you can only do it with at least 4 people (four corners of a room need to kill a mob that spawns within 5 seconds or the boss resets/disappears)
4. make a quest that upon instance completion gives boutique packs/war avatar treasure chests to each squad member
5. bosses drop random useful stuff like c packs 1* orbs etc

New set of keys to enter, you get 3 keys a day, with no option to buy more.

1. That's... not very helpful. Difficulty isn't a number, you can't just multiply it and expect it to make sense to anyone. What do you mean by that difficulty?
2. This I can agree on, but only if it's not all of them. Because let's be honest, at this point, if you made all of the bosses anti-APS, you'd see WCs require +10 r9 instead of the old 5 aps +10.
3. Why? What's so bad about duoing or soloing if you're skilled enough to do it? It's entirely possible to create encounters that won't be solved just by throwing more gear at it.
4. So... this is your idea of a good reward? Because honestly, I don't give a **** about boutique packs and War avatars are... not that interesting. Supply Tokens and Basic Badges though? Sign me up all day long!
5. It shouldn't be "random" though. There should be at least some common theme to it. And I don't think that they should drop boutique items at all.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

1. That's... not very helpful. Difficulty isn't a number, you can't just multiply it and expect it to make sense to anyone. What do you mean by that difficulty?
2. This I can agree on, but only if it's not all of them. Because let's be honest, at this point, if you made all of the bosses anti-APS, you'd see WCs require +10 r9 instead of the old 5 aps +10.
3. Why? What's so bad about duoing or soloing if you're skilled enough to do it? It's entirely possible to create encounters that won't be solved just by throwing more gear at it.
4. So... this is your idea of a good reward? Because honestly, I don't give a **** about boutique packs and War avatars are... not that interesting. Supply Tokens and Basic Badges though? Sign me up all day long!
5. It shouldn't be "random" though. There should be at least some common theme to it. And I don't think that they should drop boutique items at all.

1. Update the difficulty to reflect the gear increase since Nirvy was a thing and people were doing it in g15+10 gears.

2. Anti aps so a boss can't just be spark HF dropped in seconds.

3. This is a MMO, people should form squads and do stuff together, there should be no penalty for doing stuff in a party and there should be no extra reward for doing stuff solo. The great thing about FSP is that the reward is from talking to an NPC after each boss kill, not in the form of drops that need to be split/shared, hence people fill out FSP squads with 10 people. if it wasn't like this there would be elite groups that power through the instance and people that wont get picked for squads or have trouble finding squads. The 'encounter' I used isn't solved by throwing more gear at it, it's solved by communication and teamwork.

4. You should go to Nation Wars if you want supply tokens and Lunar/Warsong for badges, this new nirvy shouldn't take away from existing instances but add to the game. Packs and avatars may not be interesting for you but they are for everyone that is endgame or approaching endgame, and if you reach that stage in gearing you will want them too. The reward should be something a lot of people want that isn't obtainable anywhere else, so there is a motivation to do this instance.

5. By random i meant insert xyz drops here which are of the calibre of c packs and 1* orbs, in the sense that they are desired. Obviously there would be a drop table which is fixed.

I think it's high time that some boutique items are farmable to an extent and limited availability, this will have a very desirable effect of cooling inflation, cooling gold prices, and making the economy more sustainable. Instead of war avatar chests they could instead give like one (non-tradeable, non acc stashable) war avatar catalyst per run/key. Also pack odds are so lame that if you opened 3 per day you'd be lucky to get a scroll of tome in 6 months. So I think one pack per run is fair.

At an average gear level of r9rr +7 this instance should take under an hour to complete and should be 10 man ofc.

Socqar - Lost City

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

At an average gear level of r9rr +7 this instance should take under an hour to complete and should be 10 man ofc.

Ok I loled hard at this!

Average and r9r +7 in the same sentence... oh Dark, you're so biased atm xD

Aaaaanyway, jokes apart, the idea is not bad, but better than dropping avatar packs and 1* orbs or similar (HELL, badges? Supply tokens? that simply makes no sense, at all... WS is funny and challenging enough, and you have LUnar for extra badges, don't be lazy and run them, Supply tokens? N ty, I prefer having people in PVP event called NW instead of a random daily dungeon..)
may be a good idea to make it drop (or pick from NPC just like in FS, which works good to fill squads and avoid solo-fests) some item, craftable in a forge to be redeem for War avatar, 1* or whatever u feel like.

With a nice and HUGE fee on it. Meaning by farming the dungeon you can craft for example, war avatar packs, by paying COINS, let's say 1 - 2M fee? even more? This way you'd introduce a nice coin sink and a cheaper way to acquire cards.... Not bad, interesting, and coin sink + NV revamp

Final note: All we say here will be lost, ain't gonna happen and we know it (just check PWCN, they don't have this... so we won't see nay of this in 6 months time span considering they got it right now, what? over a year? be realistic, this ain't gonna happen, ever)

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

Socqar - Lost City wrote: »

Ok I loled hard at this!

Average and r9r +7 in the same sentence... oh Dark, you're so biased atm xD

You do realize he just stated that the average time it would take to complete the instance, using the gear he mentioned, would be an hour, right?

He didn't say that the squad's gear should be R9rr +7 average to actually be able to run the instance.

Socqar - Lost City

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You do realize he just stated that the average time it would take to complete the instance, using the gear he mentioned, would be an hour, right?

He didn't say that the squad's gear should be R9rr +7 average to actually be able to run the instance.

Yes, meaning that the average gear of the squad would be r9r +7, meaning r9r +12 mixed with some g16 +10? Less than an hour... So 3 - 4h for a full G16 squad? That would turn this into new UCH, that nearly no-one but highly OP or highly lucky run, because it takes so damn long with normal people squads that it's not even worth the effort, plus it's tricky, needs coordination and the reward is only worth once you finish skills? (What with dailies, should be done even on alt atm for anyone with enough time to run UCH)

Olbaze - Sanctuary

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1. Update the difficulty to reflect the gear increase since Nirvy was a thing and people were doing it in g15+10 gears.

2. Anti aps so a boss can't just be spark HF dropped in seconds.

3. This is a MMO, people should form squads and do stuff together, there should be no penalty for doing stuff in a party and there should be no extra reward for doing stuff solo. The great thing about FSP is that the reward is from talking to an NPC after each boss kill, not in the form of drops that need to be split/shared, hence people fill out FSP squads with 10 people. if it wasn't like this there would be elite groups that power through the instance and people that wont get picked for squads or have trouble finding squads. The 'encounter' I used isn't solved by throwing more gear at it, it's solved by communication and teamwork.

4. You should go to Nation Wars if you want supply tokens and Lunar/Warsong for badges, this new nirvy shouldn't take away from existing instances but add to the game. Packs and avatars may not be interesting for you but they are for everyone that is endgame or approaching endgame, and if you reach that stage in gearing you will want them too. The reward should be something a lot of people want that isn't obtainable anywhere else, so there is a motivation to do this instance.

5. By random i meant insert xyz drops here which are of the calibre of c packs and 1* orbs, in the sense that they are desired. Obviously there would be a drop table which is fixed.

I think it's high time that some boutique items are farmable to an extent and limited availability, this will have a very desirable effect of cooling inflation, cooling gold prices, and making the economy more sustainable. Instead of war avatar chests they could instead give like one (non-tradeable, non acc stashable) war avatar catalyst per run/key. Also pack odds are so lame that if you opened 3 per day you'd be lucky to get a scroll of tome in 6 months. So I think one pack per run is fair.

At an average gear level of r9rr +7 this instance should take under an hour to complete and should be 10 man ofc.

1. So... people who do not have level of gear are going to get shafted again?
2. Or you could... make the bosses immune to HF and Subsea? Enchanted Ancestor worked pretty well and all he really did was have twice the HP and an immunity to HF and Subsea.
3.
4. But NW is a PvP activity. Why should I be forced to go into a PvP activity, where I get repeatedly oneshot even with better-than-average gear? And since you brought up "endgame", I suppose that means that anyone who's not already r9rr +12 should go **** themselves, right? Because those are the people who can go to NW and expect to actually do something other than die over and over again for 3 hours. And those are the people who wouldn't have much use for Basic Badges and Supply Tokens.
5. The thing is, the hardcore farmers don't do an instance once a day. They do it 8-16 hours a day, dozens of times. Unless you make the instance literally unable to be completed within a hour via quest timer or something, you will see the bad effects. And packs are a massive coin faucet, so I'd rather not go that route at all. Either make it something that only has trade value, or make it bound.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

1. So... people who do not have level of gear are going to get shafted again?
That's because player base is MUH GEARS IM NOT GOING TO TAKE YOU, playerbase is at fault, the instance could work pretty normally

2. Or you could... make the bosses immune to HF and Subsea? Enchanted Ancestor worked pretty well and all he really did was have twice the HP and an immunity to HF and Subsea.
False difficulty for the win? Enchanted ancestor didn't work well, it wasn't hard, it was just... nothing that had more HP and could resist a few debuffs, that doesn't mean it works.
Even artificial difficulty would work better than that; make bosses scale from a squad average soulforce/spirit and adjust drops accordingly.

3.
4. But NW is a PvP activity. Why should I be forced to go into a PvP activity, where I get repeatedly oneshot even with better-than-average gear? And since you brought up "endgame", I suppose that means that anyone who's not already r9rr +12 should go **** themselves, right? Because those are the people who can go to NW and expect to actually do something other than die over and over again for 3 hours. And those are the people who wouldn't have much use for Basic Badges and Supply Tokens.
Moving items exclusive from a different event to an instance is one of the stupidest things you can do, just like you think boutique items should stay in the boutique, the NW items should stay in NW. You can't just say "don't give items from <place x>" and then say "give items from <place y>"

5. The thing is, the hardcore farmers don't do an instance once a day. They do it 8-16 hours a day, dozens of times. Unless you make the instance literally unable to be completed within a hour via quest timer or something, you will see the bad effects. And packs are a massive coin faucet, so I'd rather not go that route at all. Either make it something that only has trade value, or make it bound.
That's where the 3 keys per day thing comes into play, you could even make the quest (to enter / get rewards from a new nirvana) only obtainable 3 times a day if anything, making keys obsolete (like UCH can only be done 3 times a day and then you simply can't get the quest for that day anymore)

/5char

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Socqar - Lost City wrote: »

Yes, meaning that the average gear of the squad would be r9r +7, meaning r9r +12 mixed with some g16 +10? Less than an hour... So 3 - 4h for a full G16 squad? That would turn this into new UCH, that nearly no-one but highly OP or highly lucky run, because it takes so damn long with normal people squads that it's not even worth the effort, plus it's tricky, needs coordination and the reward is only worth once you finish skills? (What with dailies, should be done even on alt atm for anyone with enough time to run UCH)

I think you're overstating the difference between r9rr+7 immacs A cards and full g16+7 immacs A cards. The entire instance wouldn't be just kill boss xyz there would be some tasks mechanics that take a while to do like EU where gear doesn't make it faster. I think a full g16 squad could do it like an hour and a bit.

The main focus I'd say is make it so this instance isn't **** easy that you can just steamroll through it with all your 10089328 alts. Since New Horizons there has been a shift of focus away from alts and players focus more on their mains, and I think this is a good trend to follow.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

1. So... people who do not have level of gear are going to get shafted again?
2. Or you could... make the bosses immune to HF and Subsea? Enchanted Ancestor worked pretty well and all he really did was have twice the HP and an immunity to HF and Subsea.
3.
4. But NW is a PvP activity. Why should I be forced to go into a PvP activity, where I get repeatedly oneshot even with better-than-average gear? And since you brought up "endgame", I suppose that means that anyone who's not already r9rr +12 should go **** themselves, right? Because those are the people who can go to NW and expect to actually do something other than die over and over again for 3 hours. And those are the people who wouldn't have much use for Basic Badges and Supply Tokens.
5. The thing is, the hardcore farmers don't do an instance once a day. They do it 8-16 hours a day, dozens of times. Unless you make the instance literally unable to be completed within a hour via quest timer or something, you will see the bad effects. And packs are a massive coin faucet, so I'd rather not go that route at all. Either make it something that only has trade value, or make it bound.

1. MMOs gear progression is a thing. There is no excuse for ones main to not be at least full g16 right now if one has been actively playing/farming/merchanting/cashing since Nirvy was a thing.

2. Why the resistance to anti aps, PWCN have made it clear anti aps is the future so I'm assuming they would stick to it

3.

4. Take this up with PW, and probably a discussion for another thread

5. The three times a day thing, and yeah DEMHEALSMAN the quest lock after three instances done is cool, but it wouldn't restrict access like a key would, so unless the bosses drop nothing it wouldn't work as intended.

And yes I realise this is all theory crafting and our ideas will probably never see the light of day.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

5. The three times a day thing, and yeah DEMHEALSMAN the quest lock after three instances done is cool, but it wouldn't restrict access like a key would, so unless the bosses drop nothing it wouldn't work as intended.

And yes I realise this is all theory crafting and our ideas will probably never see the light of day.

Nah, what I meant was make the quest to access the instance only available 3 times a day, getting rid of keys entirely, ensuring that people can't hoard keys and then run it a ton of times during 2x.

So general idea:
1. Getting inside the instance is done by a quest from an NPC, without a key.
1-A. This quest can only be taken 3 times a day.

2. Once inside, you automatically get a quest, or you have to talk to another NPC to obtain a quest to kill bosses inside.
2-A. Likewise, this quest can only be taken 3 times a day (like UCH) from the NPC, or automatically, im guessing from an NPC is easier to implement since a similair thing already exists.

Essentially it's the same thing, but you can only enter 3 times a day without the possibility to hoard keys until a 2x pops up (perhaps also making step 2 obsolete, but you need to get the quest to kill the bosses for a reward somehow, if any quest reward is to be given at all)

The quest inside the instance as described in 2 and 2-A would only be there if there has to be a quest that gives a reward, else you can just use things described in 1 and 1-A

Eoria - Harshlands

As we've seen with EU, it's not a good idea to make an instance only able to be entered x amount of times a day. Prob best to go with something more akin to FSP with the reward quests only able to be taken x amount of times.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

As we've seen with EU, it's not a good idea to make an instance only able to be entered x amount of times a day. Prob best to go with something more akin to FSP with the reward quests only able to be taken x amount of times.

No, the problem in EU resides elsewhere and not in the quest to enter the instance.