APS Barb capability example

2

Comments

  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Easier for the barb how? Sins roflstomp TT with ease and can skip parts. Most bosses can be killed with your eyes closed on a barb? How does that not count for a sin?
    When I was still playing I always ran without a charm, I never needed it.
    Emperor is a cakewalk.

    I dont know, i am not a sin. But when i ask sins, it sounds like it is more difficult for them. Which makes sence. they have like 15-20k HP and maybe 20k Pdef or so. Thats quite a difference from 30k HP with 45k Pdef. TT99LA vs R9HA.
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    I dont know, i am not a sin. But when i ask sins, it sounds like it is more difficult for them. Which makes sence. they have like 15-20k HP and maybe 20k Pdef or so. Thats quite a difference from 30k HP with 45k Pdef. TT99LA vs R9HA.

    It's about knowing what you do and what you would need.
    I run/ran a R9rr sin with a R8r APS set for farming TT.
    In the last year I have died 0 times running TT.
    A run having an average between 20-25 minutes if I really did it in a hurry and (ab)used all the shadow jumps I knew about to make it faster.

    TT bosses don't hit that hard really.

    The problem with sins is:
    1. The ones that people complain about in pvp (sage tidal hurrrr), which are next to none.

    2. Too many sins that know jack **** about what they're doing because sin is the cool class to play, which are very common.
    Soon™
    Well, maybe later, semi-retired.
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Base phys attack is lower for sins. Crit makes up for it though. What i say is not derived from numbers though, it is derived from practice. From countless of mobless FW runs where G16 sins do much less dmg. 4APS r9 sins usually do a little more, the weakest of them do less dmg though. So the margin isnt very big. R9 APS barbs are in the same league as 4aps R9 sins. Im pretty sure that Joe with his better stats will out DD many more 4APS r9 sins than i do. Probably most of them actually.

    And as i tried to explain when i said easier, and with eyes closed, i meant that quite litterally. As i said. Most bosses can easilly be killed AFK. You talk about sins that have the skills to compensate for the lower defence (which is still drastically lower even in r8rLA). I talk about getting a smoke while killing the bosses. All but steelation. Emperor as said almost. Getting a bit stronger means emperor can also be done AFK.
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    Base phys attack is lower for sins. Crit makes up for it though. What i say is not derived from numbers though, it is derived from practice. From countless of mobless FW runs where G16 sins do much less dmg. 4APS r9 sins usually do a little more, the weakest of them do less dmg though. So the margin isnt very big. R9 APS barbs are in the same league as 4aps R9 sins. Im pretty sure that Joe with his better stats will out DD many more 4APS r9 sins than i do. Probably most of them actually.

    And as i tried to explain when i said easier, and with eyes closed, i meant that quite litterally. As i said. Most bosses can easilly be killed AFK. You talk about sins that have the skills to compensate for the lower defence (which is still drastically lower even in r8rLA). I talk about getting a smoke while killing the bosses. All but steelation. Emperor as said almost. Getting a bit stronger means emperor can also be done AFK.

    Judging from his pwcalcs? No. my base phy attack in my aps set is higher than his in his APS setup.
    And I said most sins can do it while being skilled, and there are exceptions that can roflstomp it AFK.

    Exceptions are everywhere, but saying a barb on APS has more base phy attack than or are in the same league as an APS sin using R9rr daggers? Lolno.
    Soon™
    Well, maybe later, semi-retired.
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    You noticed that it is unsparked right ? ;)

    38.3k average DPH sparked i see in his calc. (for me its 36k, since his stats and +12 weapon vs mine +10 indicate a bigger difference i assume he gets well over 40k and the calc doesnt include meridians/cards etc )
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    You noticed that it is unsparked right ? ;)

    38.3k average DPH sparked i seen in his calc. (for me its 36k, since his stats and +12 weapon indicate a bigger difference i assume he gets well over 40k and the calc doesnt include meridians )
    His calcs did include meridians as he said in his post.
    Yes I noticed it's unsparked.
    We are talking about APS SETS, not his R9rr set.
    Look at the APS set stats which he uses to kill bosses.
    Soon™
    Well, maybe later, semi-retired.
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    http://pwcalc.com/718afd35e67be609

    We are looking at his aps set. R9rr is a barbs aps set.
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    http://pwcalc.com/718afd35e67be609

    We are looking at his aps set. R9rr is a barbs aps set.

    Yes, on aps sparked im at 40-45k or higher, been a while since i saw it.
    base was... 25-27k?
    Would have to check that but it's somewhere around there.

    So no.

    Anyway it's derailing the thread so let's leave it at where it is.
    Soon™
    Well, maybe later, semi-retired.
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Hmm interesting. Usually when a sin asks me about dmg, i just give them my base attack and they are like b:shocked. (R9 sins yes)

    You got maxed S cards or something ?
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    Hmm interesting. Usually when a sin asks me about dmg, i just give them my base attack and they are like b:shocked. (R9 sins yes)

    You got maxed S cards or something ?

    No, pure dex build. I know what you mean with the lack of phy attack they have, when I use those observation things I see low attack power on a lot of sins and I can't put my finger on why.

    Helmet only has +80 phy attack, neck has only +37 phy attack engravings
    Well, I am using a wang's ring with phy attack engraving as well which bumps attack a lot, but I don't expect it to be so much of a difference.

    So honestly, I have no idea what i'm either doing right or wrong but those are my stats thus far.
    Soon™
    Well, maybe later, semi-retired.
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    It's about knowing what you do and what you would need.
    I run/ran a R9rr sin with a R8r APS set for farming TT.
    In the last year I have died 0 times running TT.
    A run having an average between 20-25 minutes if I really did it in a hurry and (ab)used all the shadow jumps I knew about to make it faster.

    TT bosses don't hit that hard really.

    The problem with sins is:
    1. The ones that people complain about in pvp (sage tidal hurrrr), which are next to none.

    2. Too many sins that know jack **** about what they're doing because sin is the cool class to play, which are very common.

    You are wrong. at least on the DMG part. A regular aps geared sin will not be able to reach the 840 STR I posses (in DEX ofc). When I'm fully stacked with bloodrush + triple spark atm I'm at about 48-51k pattack and I'm not even done with cards. the benefit a barb gets from cards is higher then the sins by far + that stacks well with bloodrush and triple spark.

    I doubt that a 4.0 r9 dag sin could out DD me w/o deity sharding if we would do a boss similiar. I have a 95% pdef break each 2 sparks and 35% all the time. I'M not even using EP which would make things go even fast. A demon 5.0 sin only got his wolf emblem and a 35% dmg increase in the form of subsea. Sure they could use Tangling Mire as well.

    Add Bloodrush on my behalf and it's obvious that the 4.0 r9 sin can't do anything to out dd me cept if he would land all hits as zerkcrits...which I doubt.

    And WannaBM is right. With full r9 and those additional 30 Attack lvl we would even out DD 5.0 sins most of the time. They only have 105 attack lvls max w/o sharding and have luck on engraves...and that is with a max att lvl weapon.

    Even if they would deal similiar or a little bit more dmg. Nothing compares to our survivability.

    We are talking about aps here and besides farming is useless most of the time...so xDD
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Joe - Morai wrote: »
    You are wrong. at least on the DMG part. A regular aps geared sin will not be able to reach the 840 STR I posses (in DEX ofc). When I'm fully stacked with bloodrush + triple spark atm I'm at about 48-51k pattack and I'm not even done with cards. the benefit a barb gets from cards is higher then the sins by far + that stacks well with bloodrush and triple spark.

    I doubt that a 4.0 r9 dag sin could out DD me w/o deity sharding if we would do a boss similiar. I have a 95% pdef break each 2 sparks and 35% all the time. I'M not even using EP which would make things go even fast. A demon 5.0 sin only got his wolf emblem and a 35% dmg increase in the form of subsea. Sure they could use Tangling Mire as well.

    Add Bloodrush on my behalf and it's obvious that the 4.0 r9 sin can't do anything to out dd me cept if he would land all hits as zerkcrits...which I doubt.

    And WannaBM is right. With full r9 and those additional 30 Attack lvl we would even out DD 5.0 sins most of the time. They only have 105 attack lvls max w/o sharding and have luck on engraves...and that is with a max att lvl weapon.

    Even if they would deal similiar or a little bit more dmg. Nothing compares to our survivability.

    We are talking about aps here and besides farming is useless most of the time...so xDD

    See, this is why people don't like talking with you, we are talking about APS sets and you twist it around making it sound like you have these stats in the APS set, while you have these stats in your FULL R9rr set, not the APS one.
    Your pwcalc of the APS set comes nowhere near what you're spouting around here.

    You sir, are impossible to have a conversation with if it's not in your correct view, and i'm out of this furball forum.
    Soon™
    Well, maybe later, semi-retired.
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    See, this is why people don't like talking with you, we are talking about APS sets and you twist it around making it sound like you have these stats in the APS set, while you have these stats in your FULL R9rr set, not the APS one.
    Your pwcalc of the APS set comes nowhere near what you're spouting around here.

    You sir, are impossible to have a conversation with if it's not in your correct view, and i'm out of this furball forum.

    I'm losing 36 STR on gears when I switch to aps...does that make such a big difference stat-wise? Nope.

    Because I don't feel the need to explain any little detail that anyone can easily explain for themselves?

    I made a calc for a max possible DMG sin:

    Klick!

    that is with everything maxed out and with two marginal lvled S-Cards in Battle and destroyer Slots. In praxis you can just eleminate nearly all dex on the engraves and the r8r set which leads into having at least 100 dex less. Besides, I don't even have drakeflames nor all the extra STR from engraves. If I did then I would end up with nearly the same basic dmg.

    Sure the sins-DMG reaches my Barbs dmg...but still not when I'm in fully stacked Bloodrush...and ok granted...the 840 STR have been overexaggerated as I changed some engravings and cards lately and lost a ton of STR while being on APS-gears.

    Bloodrush: Each time you take a hit you gain an extra of 20% Waepon attack. Stackable for about 10 times = 200% more weapon dmg for a whole minute. I have to add that pwcalc doesn't calculate everything right and there is no bloodrush option.

    To compare things:

    That would be my barb with Better addons on the weap + 2 Drakeflames and max STR engraves, still w/o Bloodrush.

    Klick again!

    Not that far away IJS. That's without a mastery although you could add the 50% from poison fang to it as well. Still only the 5.0 maxed out sin could beat that barb in a dmg contest. With just self buffs it's even more in the favour of the barb. A casual tt99 mix aps gear sin with 4.0 is chanceless anyway.

    PS: I'm not impossible to have a conversation with. It is not my fault if others can't include anything in their calculations. Admit it....you forgot about Bloodrush! I never said anything else then triple spark + bloodrush = higher. Sue me for just telling the truth. It's none of my business if ppl don't understand me while they arn't even trying. That's a mistake on their ends.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • peckked
    peckked Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    @DEMHEALSMAN - Just ignore him.... maybe give em a pat on the head if actually does something good. It's no use talking to him because he lives in his head.

    @Joe - Here we go again with the I'm-so-op-barb rawr. I thought this thread was just an expose... But here you are again your faulty, biased, and ignorant statements regarding how your toon relates to other classes.

    Everytime you say you out DD an r93 demon @4APS at your level/gear you lose more credibility. You are wrong. My 2.86 Sage sin @ 105/103/102 drops the bosses faster than you do so smartentf up already.

    You've successfully established that your contributions are questionable at best and now detract from any side of a debate you join. GG.

    Oh and since you're going on about having more str than a sin has dex: A sin has mastery giving 75% (90% if sage) which translated into dex is the equivalent to 112.5 dex (135 sage).
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    peckked wrote: »
    @DEMHEALSMAN - Just ignore him.... maybe give em a pat on the head if actually does something good. It's no use talking to him because he lives in his head.

    @Joe - Here we go again with the I'm-so-op-barb rawr. I thought this thread was just an expose... But here you are again your faulty, biased, and ignorant statements regarding how your toon relates to other classes.

    Everytime you say you out DD an r93 demon @4APS at your level/gear you lose more credibility. You are wrong. My 2.86 Sage sin @ 105/103/102 drops the bosses faster than you do so smartentf up already.

    You've successfully established that your contributions are questionable at best and now detract from any side of a debate you join. GG.

    Is that so? Then you surely have no problem to prove that right? I need ~27 seconds to kill the first boss in tt 3-3, that's less then 2 sparks. and you?

    Here you go again saying I'm wrong with absolutely no prove cept empty words and do really believe anyone will take YOU guys for serious? Cmon, don't make a laugh out of yourselves.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • peckked
    peckked Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    1 spark + ~5s for first boss in 3-3. Let's put it this way... lacking ~80 dex that your level/tome would give my character I was running 3-3 last 2x in ~29min picking up every single drop along the way and doing a card boss. What you can accomplish is good... but not amazing, and certainly not the best possible.
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    peckked wrote: »
    1 spark + ~5s for first boss in 3-3. Let's put it this way... lacking ~80 dex that your level/tome would give my character I was running 3-3 in ~29min picking up every single drop along the way and doing a card boss. What you can accomplish is good... but not amazing, and certainly not the best possible.

    With a 4.0 standard aps geared, no deity sin? ya ofc. You can surely make a video of it to prove it (:

    I had a pan gu during that time. so no great tome.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • peckked
    peckked Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'm a sage sin 105/103/102. I spam ws so 3.33. I have no diety or dots at all and no cards over level 20.

    I've never used fraps, nor have I ever uploaded a video. If I find time this weekend I'll try and put a video together for you.
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    peckked wrote: »
    I'm a sage sin 105/103/102. I spam ws so 3.33. I have no diety or dots at all and no cards over level 20.

    I've never used fraps, nor have I ever uploaded a video. If I find time this weekend I'll try and put a video together for you.

    YOur attack stat then? sparked and unsparked?
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • peckked
    peckked Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Can't say I remember... I'm at work atm. That being said, attack stat is only a contributing factor when you need to address differences in APS, attack levels, crit% and GoF. Kinda silly to dwell on just one.
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    peckked wrote: »
    Can't say I remember... I'm at work atm. That being said, attack stat is only a contributing factor when you need to address differences in APS, attack levels, crit% and GoF. Kinda silly to dwell on just one.

    Nah it's not, I know anything possible besides the stat xD so I only need the stat xDDD
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • peckked
    peckked Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Well for a ballpark estimate I've around 3450 base physical attack. So with a multiplier of around 6.5 (unsparked) and 11.5 (sparked), you're looking at averages of 22425 and 39675. These are more educated guesses than anything else so please don't hold me to them.

    edit:

    without buff

    Sparked 37299 - 42371

    with level 10 buff

    Unsparked 21813 - 24779
    Sparked 38288 - 43494
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    peckked wrote: »
    Well for a ballpark estimate I've around 3450 base physical attack. So with a multiplier of around 6.5 (unsparked) and 11.5 (sparked), you're looking at averages of 22425 and 39675. These are more educated guesses than anything else so please don't hold me to them.

    edit:

    without buff

    Sparked 37299 - 42371

    with level 10 buff

    Unsparked 21813 - 24779
    Sparked 38288 - 43494

    Mhm, thats pretty close to max...how much dex you got all together?
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • peckked
    peckked Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    In APS, 663.
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    peckked wrote: »
    In APS, 663.


    b:shocked

    lol pekked why so op b:dirty
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • peckked
    peckked Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    It's actually 677 now... just levelled :D 105/104!/102
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    peckked wrote: »
    It's actually 677 now... just levelled :D 105/104!/102

    b:surrender

    I am 103 101 101.542 in aps and 669 in r9s3 gear. Slowly getting there, but I am mainly working on leveling up the A cards i have and getting 2 more
    b:thanks
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • xxxxjayxxxx
    xxxxjayxxxx Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    So today i finally managed to get interval on my r8r chest piece! now im finally 5aps but im at a loss of what to go for next gear wise, my 5aps set atm consists of r8r single interval chest, single interval claws, lunar cape, lionheart orns, ashura boots/bracers and nirvana tier 2 legs.

    So what would you guys recommend i go for next?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Double int fists.
    -int tome
    R9 ring

    One of those 3. The R9 ring is obviously the start to R9. You cant really use much R9 yet until you have the extra -int from fists or tome though. But the ring by itself is a nice thing also. And doing this first saves you from going trough temporary G16 parts.

    If you get the tome or double int fists, that will allow you to swap your 2 Ashuras parts for G16 HA or R9 parts (but you need the ring first to be allowed to buy R9 parts) The pants can be changed for R9 too and then you have 3 parts R9 for the 100 extra strenth bonus. Significant damage boost.

    If you get both those extra sources of double int, you can also swap your ornaments. For R9 belt + cube neck. This 4th R9 part gives defence levels. And you get the pdef/mdef from belt and amulet. Significant durability bonus.

    The R9 ring of course requires mog and GST sale. For the double int fists you wait till you find the right offer in WC. (on my server i would say 350m max, maybe 400 if you feel desperate) The tome you can buy any day. So just start saving coins and see what comes by first.

    If you think those are all very expensive and you aint sure if youll ever get that stuff, you can also start paying attention to smaller details:
    -Engraving on helm for extra dmg.
    -Rebirth (twice) if you didnt yet and get full A cards as well as maximum sky level for spirit.
    -Level those A cards, espescially battle and destruction. (buy Cpacks for this)
    -refine G16 helm for more HPs.
    -
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • xxxxjayxxxx
    xxxxjayxxxx Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    Double int fists.
    -int tome
    R9 ring



    If you think those are all very expensive and you aint sure if youll ever get that stuff, you can also start paying attention to smaller details:
    -Engraving on helm for extra dmg.
    -Rebirth (twice) if you didnt yet and get full A cards as well as maximum sky level for spirit.
    -Level those A cards, espescially battle and destruction. (buy Cpacks for this)
    -refine G16 helm for more HPs.
    -

    b:laugh i still am at a loss as to which to do, maybe ill just save for a pangu and get double int fists if they pop up before hand, thanks

    b:thanks
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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