People who refuse to listen/Be a team player in Squads

LilyWinters - Archosaur

anaovt1 wrote: »

I hate it when people don't pull their weight in a squad. I don't tolerate freeloaders

If I notice someone isn't attacking in a squad, has their char on follow (usually on me), or just isn't moving at all, here's how I deal with it:

1. Check if they mentioned going afk. If they did, let it slide and wait for them to come back
2. If they didn't, whisper them, asking them to please attack. If no response after this, written or action,
3. Ask in squad chat if it's someone's alt or if anyone knows them.
4. If they still don't respond in any way, kick.

This process usually takes 4-5 minutes, so if they're on another window, they really should be checking.

If anyone in EU isn't there when I get to their mirror and don't respond to anything within 2-3 minutes, I consider that run a fail, kick them, and start over. Being somewhere else and not checking in, even when waiting in EU, is unacceptable.

This! So very much this!

BH EU is instance where I can't stand AFKers, even if they say they need to go AFK. For some reason it almost always takes a long time for everyone to just get into the instance, and by this time most of the squad is already tired of waiting around and since EU is an instance that relies on everyone being present to progress, I think it's quite rude to go AFK. When you also take into consideration the fact that you can't enter more than once a day, frustration at AFKers is quick. I've gotten in the habit of telling my EU squad that I will kick people who go AFK at the start of the run. I'm not someone who insists on doing runs super fast, but I can't stand just waiting around doing nothing because you're on an alt or your Mom finished making dinner.

I've also noticed this a lot in Delta. People think it's okay to join a delta run with their alt, run them to spawn point and go back to their main/other alt and let their character in Delta just stand their while the rest of the squad does all the work. If you're afk for more than two groups in my Delta squad I will kick you. Exception to this is if you're bringing two characters and mention that one is your alt. Delta BH doesn't require a full squad and as long as you're contributing and not freeloading I don't mind this.

As far as giving advice, I rarely bother anymore. The chance that it's going to be received negatively is about 95% regardless of how nicely you word it. Which I feel has more to do with people being egomaniacs and less to do with how nicely you word it. Once people reach end game gear or even lvl 100 a lot of the time, they seem to develop this god complex that allows no room for improvement.

Another issue that has only been touched on so far is communication in squads. It's such a rare thing anymore. People seem to think that it's fine since even if only moderately geared most instances can be completed without too much trouble. I think this has contributed to people not being able to accept advice. Aside from "Thanks for invite" or "Thanks for run," that's about all that squads say to each other. So anything else outside of light conversation is considered bossy.

Colum - Raging Tide

anaovt1 wrote: »

I hate it when people don't pull their weight in a squad. I don't tolerate freeloaders

If I notice someone isn't attacking in a squad, has their char on follow (usually on me), or just isn't moving at all, here's how I deal with it:

1. Check if they mentioned going afk. If they did, let it slide and wait for them to come back
2. If they didn't, whisper them, asking them to please attack. If no response after this, written or action,
3. Ask in squad chat if it's someone's alt or if anyone knows them.
4. If they still don't respond in any way, kick.

This process usually takes 4-5 minutes, so if they're on another window, they really should be checking.

If anyone in EU isn't there when I get to their mirror and don't respond to anything within 2-3 minutes, I consider that run a fail, kick them, and start over. Being somewhere else and not checking in, even when waiting in EU, is unacceptable.

Oh I wholeheartedly agree with this, I also cannot stand it when I solo something for someone and then they dont do a thing, just follow me around and stand there watching... and then I'm like hey u can attack also and they're like nah u got this.

AND then the people who leave after they get what they need and go like "u dont need me anyway so I'm out".

bloodedone87

I am the one that doesnt listen in sqaud. Someone told my 5 aps demon sin to save 3 sparksb:laugh. I did not listen. We were in a bh eu.b:laugh

FragiIe - Dreamweaver

Great topic!
I was just in a similar situation of which resulted in me pulling both my toons from faction! Player tends to jump in and attack the boss before everyone is in the instance..usually resulting in player killing the boss and others missing out on the kill! This player ignores you and squad even when you send a private message to stop hitting the boss! I let it go a few times and finally had to call player out on it and he/she went off the deep end accusing myself and faction leader envious! This player had just recently got 5aps and thought he/she was badass or something which resulted in overloading their *** many times resulting in death! I tried to explain we're in there as a team and should work as a team...only made this player more enraged!

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Some cleric told me about how a genie is useless to them...despite the whole squad kindly telling her to go get a genie so she can at least build chi while in BB.

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Some cleric told me about how a genie is useless to them...despite the whole squad kindly telling her to go get a genie so she can at least build chi while in BB.

Also many ppl who use classes that need chi a lot for hf ,BB and such dont even have chi skills on thier genie . U find them asking venos for chi all the time ...

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

There are other skills that are useful to a cleric too like holy path since they don't have any run skills, no anti stun either.. Idk might just be an opinion but I think it's widely accepted that a genie is somewhere on the spectrum between useful and essential.

FragiIe - Dreamweaver

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Also many ppl who use classes that need chi a lot for hf ,BB and such dont even have chi skills on thier genie . U find them asking venos for chi all the time ...

That's why venos have lending hand..no harm in asking for chi when that is part of a venos job otherwise lending hand is a useless skill!

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide

FragiIe - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That's why venos have lending hand..no harm in asking for chi when that is part of a venos job otherwise lending hand is a useless skill!

There is difference btw having genie chi skills and be doing their job very well in time and asking for chi sometime to be able to keep up with speedy runs AND asking for chi at every boss ... Sometime i runned in squad where 2 or 3 ppl keep asking for chi lmao ...

FragiIe - Dreamweaver

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide wrote: »

There is difference btw having genie chi skills and be doing their job very well in time and asking for chi sometime to be able to keep up with speedy runs AND asking for chi at every boss ... Sometime i runned in squad where 2 or 3 ppl keep asking for chi lmao ...

Lemme explain to you that this game was played for a long time with out genies and it can still be played with out genies if a player chooses not to...I'm a veno and rarely have I ever had more than 1 ask for a spark very rare! so yea i don't believe you there!

Colum - Raging Tide

FragiIe - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lemme explain to you that this game was played for a long time with out genies and it can still be played with out genies if a player chooses not to...I'm a veno and rarely have I ever had more than 1 ask for a spark very rare! so yea i don't believe you there!

This isnt 2009, this is 2014. Gears, instances and skills have changed. There is no good reason for a player not to have a genie, because saying it is useless is complete and utter bs. With a genie you can, for example:

- Build chi (Cloud Eruption, Chi Siphon)
- Be immune to one of the elements (Oxygen Bubble, Expel, Nullify Poison...)
- Interrupt (Earthquake)
- Lure (Earthflame)
- Heal self (Tree of Protection)
- Class specific skills such as Solid Shield (mini-invoke for barbs)
- Run faster (Holy Path)
- Boost your damage (Tangling Mire, Extreme Poison, Enrage)
- Antistun (Remove Paralysis, Badge of Courage, Fortify)

And so on

Also what comes to venos and squad needing chi... Usually it is my barb they ask for chi first since I'm demon and can spam my buff faster than a veno can lending hand on several people, filling the whole squad's chi bars. However, veno lending hand surely doesnt become useless even if many people use Cloud Eruption. A good veno can actually save a BM or cleric from having to use their genie so they can save the energy for holy path or damage amplifys instead.

I've personally seen 2-3 people demand sparks in FC about a year ago. There was a barb, cleric and BM needing chi I believe.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

A good veno can actually save a BM or cleric from having to use their genie so they can save the energy for holy path or damage amplifys instead.

It is so rare to find venos who give you spark now b:surrender. Some don't even have the skill. I am not sure about barbs, but when i do fws or delta. I do not focus on my dd. I focus on the group. I use gs, hf, mss, stun. That is why i always appreciate a veno who passes me sparks. It keeps things going smoothly and quickly.

I don't like asking barbs for spark, by spamming skill, due to high mp cost, especially if barb is mp charmed.

Desdi - Sanctuary

FragiIe - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That's why venos have lending hand..no harm in asking for chi when that is part of a venos job otherwise lending hand is a useless skill!

..but..D: you can build chi for yourself with Sage/Demon Lending Hand! Shorter cooldown with a chance to give you an extra spark when cast on self. Even if there are other chi-generating skills, it's still useful.


Anyhow, on topic: It's true there was a time we didn't have genies and I played PWI long before we got genies but... the game has evolved and genies have become an important part of the game play so not using them only hinders the potential of things you can do.

A squad shouldn't rush ahead when a Cleric can't keep up but the squad has no obligation to put up with a Cleric who isn't willing to do their best such as keeping up with Holy Path or making sure they manage their chi instead of having to ask for chi all the time (as much as I like chi'ing you Clerics, I ain't gonna do that if you're abusing me as a chi machine just because you're lazy).

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

Pretty much what Desdi and Colum said.

Its hard to actually cause me to boot a player. Its very hard actually.

But i will boot you for that. Every class does not have the same run speed, nor the same speed skill sets. But if a player isn't willing to use a genie...at least for the instance runs.(Idc what they want to do in world map)...but if youwont use a genie, then my job, the tanks job, and every other DD's job is made harder.

Colum listed fundamental attributes of having a genie....but let's also add absolute domain...which I have on all 3 of my genies. There are even aggro skills, knockbacks, etc. So not having a genie in this day in age isn't conducive to the squad. I'd have died many many many many times if I didn't know how to use my genie properly, and I don't have a genie with full lucky points either. Admittingly, I didn't have chi skills on my genie for a long time. I would just ask for a sec, and SoR myself up to full chi + Master Li's technique.

A barb advised me to try it, and if I didn't like it, switch back. I've used it ever since. Yes, a veno should pass chi as he/she can, but they shouldn't be abused by a member that doesn't even try chi management. Even when I had nogenie skill for chi, I saved BB for emergencies, and carried white teas. (Still do.)

If we have to clear without a squad member frequently...wait for them for bosses...and slow up because they're lacking a tool that's given to us all freely...and doesn't cost that much to get another one....even a pitiful genie...then that person might want to re-evaluate how they play with others. Its fine to challenge yourself...but don't endanger the squad while doing so.

overcomem

FragiIe - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lemme explain to you that this game was played for a long time with out genies and it can still be played with out genies if a player chooses not to...I'm a veno and rarely have I ever had more than 1 ask for a spark very rare! so yea i don't believe you there!

LOL Now a day you know sage veno they have no worries about chi giving. They can make 35 chi every 6 seconds + master Li technique. Today I went FSP and some sage veno pass chi to everyone in squad all the time. It seems she had fun with that chi thing.

JePoY - Lost City

>One cleric from my ally guild pm me while FSP run that she has agood HP and she better than a sin who i inv before her and telling me why you inv him, and also braging im cool i have more than HP also than you... in my thought u shold make your own FSP run and inv who ever u like..b:angry

Colum - Raging Tide

One damn huge peeve is when you invite a person X to the squad, person X doesnt really do a whole lot to help the other squad clear the dungeon, then person X decides it's cool he grabs the nuema and ditches the other squad after he gets the bosses he needs.

b:angry

Colum - Raging Tide

We need a bump here.

I just hate it when clerics do not purify you even when requested kindly. b:sweat made my toons die many times due to that.

ZentDreigon - Raging Tide

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

One damn huge peeve is when you invite a person X to the squad, person X doesnt really do a whole lot to help the other squad clear the dungeon, then person X decides it's cool he grabs the nuema and ditches the other squad after he gets the bosses he needs.

b:angry

I have a special external black list for those people. b:victory

Coraline - Lost City

The one thing I hate is when you're in a squad with people who mainly speak a different language. It was horrible. I was in a full gv on ep and they said they wanted to do normal gv. So I set up bb and they start running away after talking in squad chat. And then they start yelling at me to go to spawn point. And then some idiot later on passed lead to make us fail after I said don't do it and I just left at that point. I had already burned 200k off of my charm, wasn't going to continue especially with no quest rewards so I didn't feel bad about leaving.

Colum - Raging Tide

Worst moments occur when people in FSP don't find agreement who will do axes at toad...

ZentDreigon - Raging Tide

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Worst moments occur when people in FSP don't find agreement who will do axes at toad...

Or when we're stuck at that awkward silence. b:sweat

Colum - Raging Tide

Oh oh oh I got a story from yesterday.

BH 59, I was on my level 78 well geared aps barb, we also had 2 level 6x clerics, 7x mystic, 60 barb and 48 assassin. None of us was reborn, we did instance unwined and we agreed the level 60 barb could practice tanking on mobs while I would DD on them.

So we proceed forward, I notice barb is using protection ornaments and I give him a hint if he switches to elemental he would have easier time with magic mobs. Barb agrees and we make our way to Zimo.
It is rather obvious that my aps barb took aggro on Zimo, considering I was the highest level in the squad and top of that aps. I was perfectly comfortable tanking Zimo in human form with claws so I didnt bother switching to axes and going in tiger since I wasnt taking too big damage and my claw proc also helped.

However... seemed like other of the level 6x clerics thought the other barb would be more suitable tank. She get spamming IH over and over on the other barb, even after I requested she could heal me instead. Second cleric was in RB and mystic had started healing me since the first cleric just kept IHing the first barb who was unable to take aggro back. RBing cleric switched to BB so mystic could start DDing, I still hold aggro and even still other cleric keeps spamming IH on the lower level barb.

After boss is dead I ask her why did she heal the barb that had no aggro instead of me, I got no clever answer to this and was told she and the barb know what theyre doing and I should shut up. I tell them I see no point in healing a lower level tank who is unable to grab aggro back from my aps (which Im not blaming him for - it was to be expected) and that she could have healed me since Im perfectly fine with the aggro, cleric says something about the barb having r9rr level 103 barb on other server and I told her my issue is not with the barb, it's with her heals. I ask - again - why she spammed IH on the tank that didnt take any kind of damage, just for lols? Mystic backs me up and we both get kicked out of squad.

I mean... really?

Reliea - Sanctuary

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

After boss is dead I ask her why did she heal the barb that had no aggro instead of me, I got no clever answer to this and was told she and the barb know what theyre doing and I should shut up. I tell them I see no point in healing a lower level tank who is unable to grab aggro back from my aps (which Im not blaming him for - it was to be expected) and that she could have healed me since Im perfectly fine with the aggro, cleric says something about the barb having r9rr level 103 barb on other server and I told her my issue is not with the barb, it's with her heals. I ask - again - why she spammed IH on the tank that didnt take any kind of damage, just for lols? Mystic backs me up and we both get kicked out of squad.

I mean... really?

This is why I don't ask questions XD
Whatever I say, no matter how truthful or sensible will not change a stubborn mind, and usually I'm not in the mood to try.
I don't really know why a cleric would heal someone who is obviously not tanking nor taking damage and has no likely chance to take damage. Luckily you weren't in much danger, but I almost wish you were >.> So you could be like, welp, I'm dead now, so why didn't you heal me?

Sometimes, I would help out lowbies in dungeons on my cleric who is 100+, I could tank it all, but nope, I'd follow along n casually heal, so they could learn things, but in moderate safety. Sure if they pulled too much too far ahead of me, they'd probably die, but well, then you learn not to outrun the cleric by half the dungeon. So in your case, I prolly would have cut back on the dding a tad to give the lower barb a bit more opportunity to hone his barbing skillz, but yeah, it's hard when you're that much higher and that much better geared. But then, what practice does he need if he's got a r9 barb on another server O.o

Verenor - Morai

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

After boss is dead I ask her why did she heal the barb that had no aggro instead of me, I got no clever answer to this and was told she and the barb know what theyre doing and I should shut up. I tell them I see no point in healing a lower level tank who is unable to grab aggro back from my aps (which Im not blaming him for - it was to be expected) and that she could have healed me since Im perfectly fine with the aggro, cleric says something about the barb having r9rr level 103 barb on other server and I told her my issue is not with the barb, it's with her heals. I ask - again - why she spammed IH on the tank that didnt take any kind of damage, just for lols? Mystic backs me up and we both get kicked out of squad.

I mean... really?

This is pretty much why I have a general hatred towards nab clerics/cross-server people. You can't ask them to heal you if you're the one with aggro nomatter how nicely you ask them, they will always bite back with an ahum, rather unpleasant attitude.
Choice is die from not getting heals, or risk full-on drama raging because you asked someone to be logical. Usually, as archer, I ended up dying because cleric sees barb full hp, so nobody else needs heals. Obviously barb's hp wouldn't go down without aggro. BH69, oh the memories.

Sadly now those clerics have made it into FSP runs and I managed to die tanking Succubus standing all alone in the middle cause Disperse, and clerics again only looking at their own hp/barb's hp: if those are down, a magical heal appears, everything else is fend for themselves. I manage to die a slow and boring death from 18k hp to 0, from attacks dealing 1k~ ea. Luckily my blacklist has room again to keep track of those clerics b:angry Leaving G15 barbs to the task of tanking all bosses and not only toad means a 2hr FSP run, ain't nobody got time fo dat

Colum - Raging Tide

Reliea - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is why I don't ask questions XD
Whatever I say, no matter how truthful or sensible will not change a stubborn mind, and usually I'm not in the mood to try.
I don't really know why a cleric would heal someone who is obviously not tanking nor taking damage and has no likely chance to take damage. Luckily you weren't in much danger, but I almost wish you were >.> So you could be like, welp, I'm dead now, so why didn't you heal me?

Sometimes, I would help out lowbies in dungeons on my cleric who is 100+, I could tank it all, but nope, I'd follow along n casually heal, so they could learn things, but in moderate safety. Sure if they pulled too much too far ahead of me, they'd probably die, but well, then you learn not to outrun the cleric by half the dungeon. So in your case, I prolly would have cut back on the dding a tad to give the lower barb a bit more opportunity to hone his barbing skillz, but yeah, it's hard when you're that much higher and that much better geared. But then, what practice does he need if he's got a r9 barb on another server O.o

Yeah I know I maybe shouldnt be asking the questions, but people's stupidity gets to me b:shutup And well, I think if I would have died the cleric would have blamed it on me for taking the aggro b:surrender if I had stood back and let the other barb tank, the boss would have taken forever to kill or the mystic would have grabbed the aggro.

And yes I wondered the same thing - why not mention about the r9 barb right at the start when I asked does he need to practice his skills in the dungeon? Also I saw what he did at the boss and he was using his skills fine. It iis nearly impossible to not steal aggro from a level 60 barb when you wear +5 calamity axes OR claws that drew aggro from him immediately. I should have stopped attacking entirely.

Verenor - Morai wrote: »

This is pretty much why I have a general hatred towards nab clerics/cross-server people. You can't ask them to heal you if you're the one with aggro nomatter how nicely you ask them, they will always bite back with an ahum, rather unpleasant attitude.
Choice is die from not getting heals, or risk full-on drama raging because you asked someone to be logical. Usually, as archer, I ended up dying because cleric sees barb full hp, so nobody else needs heals. Obviously barb's hp wouldn't go down without aggro. BH69, oh the memories.

Sadly now those clerics have made it into FSP runs and I managed to die tanking Succubus standing all alone in the middle cause Disperse, and clerics again only looking at their own hp/barb's hp: if those are down, a magical heal appears, everything else is fend for themselves. I manage to die a slow and boring death from 18k hp to 0, from attacks dealing 1k~ ea. Luckily my blacklist has room again to keep track of those clerics b:angry Leaving G15 barbs to the task of tanking all bosses and not only toad means a 2hr FSP run, ain't nobody got time fo dat

Heh, what I do on my barb in FS is I inform the squad Im only tanking toad and dont care who has aggro on other bosses. I use my human skill macro on Drake and Succubus, Toad too but if squad has lot of r9rr then I go in tiger and stomp of the king occasionally to assure my aggro stays. As a demon strenght barb this method helps me keeps aggro from most players and the few who steal it can handle the aggro. However, every time I let the squad know I am -NOT- responsible of tanking the other bosses so clerics should be aware that aggro might alter.

Of course I grab aggro on Mushi when he goes frenzy if I think the one with aggro can't handle it and we dont have a veno... b:chuckle

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide

It's one of the main reasons why when I play on my cleric after casting my debuff on a boss once the tank has aggro, I watch the squad list so I can IH the tank, purify when needed whomever has been debuffed, and squad heal if required. If things are going well I will DD some, but as a cleric that's everyone else's job to do the damage. I'm the medic.

Colum - Raging Tide

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide wrote: »

It's one of the main reasons why when I play on my cleric after casting my debuff on a boss once the tank has aggro, I watch the squad list so I can IH the tank, purify when needed whomever has been debuffed, and squad heal if required. If things are going well I will DD some, but as a cleric that's everyone else's job to do the damage. I'm the medic.

I typically go through thier gears and watch how they do on mobs and after that I usually have an idea whom are the most likely to have aggro on boss, then I throw IH on the ones who might steal aggro every so often especially if the boss would deal serious damage on them... to be honest usually I have a lot of time to DD on my cleric and I almost always prefer IH/CHB combination over BB because it gives me more time to do other things.

It's even more annoying when you're not receiving heals after you agree with the barb that you're tanking over them and clerics still keep healing the damn kitty... b:angry I run into that problem on my sin way too often.

opkossy

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

I typically go through thier gears and watch how they do on mobs and after that I usually have an idea whom are the most likely to have aggro on boss, then I throw IH on the ones who might steal aggro every so often especially if the boss would deal serious damage on them... to be honest usually I have a lot of time to DD on my cleric and I almost always prefer IH/CHB combination over BB because it gives me more time to do other things.

It's even more annoying when you're not receiving heals after you agree with the barb that you're tanking over them and clerics still keep healing the damn kitty... b:angry I run into that problem on my sin way too often.

Same here on both ends. Heck, I even do that first bit when I'm not on a cleric just so I can get an idea of whether or not I'll be hitting E and pushing the sit emote if the cleric and "designated tank" of the run both happen to be total ****... though depending on the boss and how bad the cleric/tank are, I'll make sure that once they die that I kill it with the rest of the squad while they run back purely to spite them.

I'm not very nice to people who are like the cleric you mentioned. b:chuckle

catgirl33

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Worst moments occur when people in FSP don't find agreement who will do axes at toad...

ZentDreigon - Raging Tide wrote: »

Or when we're stuck at that awkward silence. b:sweat

Had 5 weak (aps) sins in squad. Even though, they're the best choices for the task. None of them willing to do axe. Exactly like you said, everyone just went silent. Ended up having me to do the axe.
I'm very well-geared r9r cleric, and i had to perform all these tasks:
*purify
*dd/tank/mantain aggro
*kill axe only(a psy volunteered to pick up axe and throw it)
*keep myself alive from being 1 shotted (psy will squad heal when an aoe attack occurs or they'll have to use potion)
These aps sins never listen/pay attention. No matter what happens, they just aps all day. Kept making toad recovers hp.
After a very long/unsuccessful attempt to kill toad, i had no choice but to quit. And i hate having to redo the run again.b:sad
My experience with these random squads are just awful. Many of them refused to use a single potion & keep dying/delaying, don't use their class debuff even when you ask them nicely on squad or/& through whisper. They just act as they didn't see your pm.b:surrender and keep on scratching the boss