Is every server's status like RT right now?

Fail_BM - Raging Tide

First of all, I have been away for a very very long time (around 2 years) and I came back like 1 month ago, just to find how broken the economy is comparated to how it used to be.

But leaving that behind, I want to know how are the tokens in your server. In that month I have been playing, I have seen token's price go over 30k, 3 times, because some random cashshopper bought most of them to obtain some profit.

Is every server having this kind of issue or is it RT only?b:shocked

Also, to add a bit more, I am going to point out some changes caused by token's price rise:

-Nobody selling oracles anymore.
-Apoc pages between 100k and 1 mill (like seriously...)
-No more wined instances (you hardly see someone using wines now)
-Skill from mysterious pages over 9000!
-Flawless shards over 600k (you can now get cheaper flawless from JC merchant lol...)
-Teles always over 25k, decreasing the amount of messages in wc, causing a sensation of dead server

Roseary - Sanctuary

Fail_BM - Raging Tide wrote: »

First of all, I have been away for a very very long time (around 2 years) and I came back like 1 month ago, just to find how broken the economy is comparated to how it used to be.

But leaving that behind, I want to know how are the tokens in your server. In that month I have been playing, I have seen token's price go over 30k, 3 times, because some random cashshopper bought most of them to obtain some profit.

Is every server having this kind of issue or is it RT only?b:shocked

Reporting for Sanctuary, we've been floating around 23k-25k for months now, but so far no one is hording tokens.

opkossy

Heh. I find the whole situation amusing considering back when it was 500k per gold tokens being 20k was normal. Now we're at around 2mil per gold at tokens slowly rising back to 20k-30k is considered high.

Some points to address:

Fail_BM - Raging Tide wrote: »

Also, to add a bit more, I am going to point out some changes caused by token's price rise:

-Nobody selling oracles anymore.
-Apoc pages between 100k and 1 mill (like seriously...)
-No more wined instances (you hardly see someone using wines now)
-Skill from mysterious pages over 9000!
-Flawless shards over 600k (you can now get cheaper flawless from JC merchant lol...)
-Teles always over 25k, decreasing the amount of messages in wc, causing a sensation of dead server

-Mostly because after the first rush where their prices dropped from 200k each to about 50k each people have stopped bothering to make them and instead only sell the ones that drop off mobs.
-That's less token prices and more because we're overpowered enough now that people aren't afraid of unwined instances. They didn't take long before and were fun to do since wines are mostly a coin sink anyway. Now that people in general can rush through the dungeons unwined, people no longer see a reason to wine them.
-Most skills are actually much cheaper now thanks to recent additions. It's only skills that are either exclusively found in Seat/Aba or from Mysterious pages that have any sort of major price now. And even among those many are still pretty cheap.
-That's pretty far off. Flawless shards are still incredibly cheap depending on where you look (or if you make a catshop to buy them). Token prices would have to be ~40k each before they'd cost you 600k. Plus with exclusives and the shards you get from Seat/Aba, there's no real reason to charge (or pay) extra for Flawless shards.
-I dunno about that. That's less about tele price and more about when you're online. b:chuckle

c44102

OPKossy wrote: »

Heh. I find the whole situation amusing considering back when it was 500k per gold tokens being 20k was normal. Now we're at around 2mil per gold at tokens slowly rising back to 20k-30k is considered high.

Some points to address:


-Mostly because after the first rush where their prices dropped from 200k each to about 50k each people have stopped bothering to make them and instead only sell the ones that drop off mobs.
-That's less token prices and more because we're overpowered enough now that people aren't afraid of unwined instances. They didn't take long before and were fun to do since wines are mostly a coin sink anyway. Now that people in general can rush through the dungeons unwined, people no longer see a reason to wine them.
-Most skills are actually much cheaper now thanks to recent additions. It's only skills that are either exclusively found in Seat/Aba or from Mysterious pages that have any sort of major price now. And even among those many are still pretty cheap.
-That's pretty far off. Flawless shards are still incredibly cheap depending on where you look (or if you make a catshop to buy them). Token prices would have to be ~40k each before they'd cost you 600k. Plus with exclusives and the shards you get from Seat/Aba, there's no real reason to charge (or pay) extra for Flawless shards.
-I dunno about that. That's less about tele price and more about when you're online. b:chuckle

Still misses when tokens was 10k each ( oooo those where the days ) gold was 1 mil coin at the time also

opkossy

Oh almost forgot a point.

People haven't sold oracles in... ages.... hyper grinding is better in just about every way and can be done at level 1. So people, naturally, dropped oracles like a hot rock and have been sticking to hypers ever since.

Roseary - Sanctuary

There was a reason why tokens were never going to drop below 10k each, and I had figured it out like a year and a half ago but since I have forgotten. Think it had something to do with wine.

CapnK - Sanctuary

The primary reason for token prices rising is several of the newer packs no longer contain them. Combined with people not buying the older packs because the gear in them is outdated.

Roseary - Sanctuary

OPKossy wrote: »

Oh almost forgot a point.

People haven't sold oracles in... ages.... hyper grinding is better in just about every way and can be done at level 1. So people, naturally, dropped oracles like a hot rock and have been sticking to hypers ever since.

Edit: Don't know why it quoted this for me but okay.

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

The primary reason for token prices rising is several of the newer packs no longer contain them. Combined with people not buying the older packs because the gear in them is outdated.

What new gear has come in packs that outdates older gear? Scroll of Tomes still seem in use, the rings and capes still seem in use as well.

ovenusarmanio

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

The primary reason for token prices rising is several of the newer packs no longer contain them. Combined with people not buying the older packs because the gear in them is outdated.

Untrue, Lucky Coins can be converted into tokens. The reason a lot of people do NOT convert the lucky coins is simple, the lucky coins they can use on gear and the tokens they cannot. The lack of a good pack sale without lucky coins as the reward but straight up tokens, coupled with the fact that better but more expensive packs have recently been the ones primarily pushed out, is the reason that token prices are up across all servers. The demand for tokens is still pretty decently high, but the supply is lower. Pretty classic stuff.

OPKossy wrote: »

-That's less token prices and more because we're overpowered enough now that people aren't afraid of unwined instances. They didn't take long before and were fun to do since wines are mostly a coin sink anyway. Now that people in general can rush through the dungeons unwined, people no longer see a reason to wine them.

I disagree as I saw a large drop in wined instances among the few people who bothered to do BH, that correlated directly with the token increase. I also know people who do not wine instances as often anymore because the cost isn't worth the time saved anymore. Having to pay twice as much to wine combined with the better gear, is what finally killed it. Gearwise, besides cards, not much has changed compared to the token shortages from before. And a lot of RB squads juts solo it themselves and are separate from say the BH59 squads with genuine low levels that may have wined it in the past.

Fail_BM - Raging Tide wrote: »

because some random cashshopper bought most of them to obtain some profit.

Actually it's probably the opposite given how merchanting tends to work. It was probably some wealthy merchant f2p who is manipulating the market, if such a manipulation really did occur on the market for tokens. Many merchants are f2p and are merchanting specifically because either they cannot or the will not spend the type of money people accuse them of spending.

Fail_BM - Raging Tide wrote: »

-Teles always over 25k, decreasing the amount of messages in wc, causing a sensation of dead server

Agreed, I am less likely to use wc for nonsense (although I was never a spammer, because ew) due to the cost of teles, personally. In addition, just the costs of running a normal instance has gone up thanks to the increased costs of crabmeats and herbs.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Ah I was thinking one lucky coin only made one token of luck, but it is 15. My mistake.

Socqar - Lost City

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Actually it's probably the opposite given how merchanting tends to work. It was probably some wealthy merchant f2p who is manipulating the market, if such a manipulation really did occur on the market for tokens. Many merchants are f2p and are merchanting specifically because either they cannot or the will not spend the type of money people accuse them of spending.

100% true ^^ Jew-merchant-f2p-**** here and still have "decent" gear and some coins saved :P In Lost City we have some bunch of crazy merchants playing with prices of tokens, and actually trying to keep the price lower lately for the sake of balance O.o

Some ppl have too much money if they're able to invest such impresive amounts to lower prices just for the sake of it, same with orbs... 140k 1* Orbs out of sale because some ppl have thousands and thousands stacked somewhere

Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721

Kitty can confirm that on RT it's all about greedy merchants. Kitty started token merchanting yesterday to lower prices a bit and Kitty noticed no difference in token supply compared to how it was about 1,5 years ago. Merchants try to keep token prices over 30k atm just for maximal profit(they're trying to take about 8k profit at least per token). Just wondering how long they can sustain that with Kitty merchanting(low profit for lower prices!)...

Socqar - Lost City

Kittysama - Raging Tide wrote: »

Kitty can confirm that on RT it's all about greedy merchants. Kitty started token merchanting yesterday to lower prices a bit and Kitty noticed no difference in token supply compared to how it was about 1,5 years ago. Merchants try to keep token prices over 30k atm just for maximal profit(they're trying to take about 8k profit at least per token). Just wondering how long they can sustain that with Kitty merchanting(low profit for lower prices!)...

Tbh if you have some hardcore merchants as we do in LC they will just buy you out every time you have tokens to sell and undercut your buy price as they have more budget and profit per token.

It all comes to how much money they got to invest, and well... considering 5.000B budget on some folks... it's just imposible to compete

PS: God I can't still get used to you writing about yourself on 3rd person, my mind keeps repeating "She's mad, she's mad, she's mad..." xD But as I love kitties so much it's all good

Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721

Socqar - Lost City wrote: »

Tbh if you have some hardcore merchants as we do in LC they will just buy you out every time you have tokens to sell and undercut your buy price as they have more budget and profit per token.

It all comes to how much money they got to invest, and well... considering 5.000B budget on some folks... it's just imposible to compete

PS: God I can't still get used to you writing about yourself on 3rd person, my mind keeps repeating "She's mad, she's mad, she's mad..." xD But as I love kitties so much it's all good

The thing ish, Kitty's in the market until there's hardly any profit left. Kitty's not going for profit but for balancing the market. Hard to undercut the buying price if they're almost equal. f:cute

Socqar - Lost City

Kittysama - Raging Tide wrote: »

The thing ish, Kitty's in the market until there's hardly any profit left. Kitty's not going for profit but for balancing the market. Hard to undercut the buying price if they're almost equal. f:cute

Well the problem is that you can buy and sell nearly at the same price, but a rich merchant can just come, buy all your tokens and put a buying price higher than yours.

As long as he then re-sells them higher he'll make profit and you won't buy any. You need a HARD budget to do that, as you have to be able to buy every cheaper token out there to push the price, but it's pretty easy when there are those ipmresive budgets out there

Evryn - Morai

Situation on Morai:
-Nobody selling oracles anymore.
* Never saw these sold to begin with. Probably simpler to just farm them on autoculti now.

-Apoc pages between 100k and 1 mill
* 1 mill? For something you can farm in Brimstone from random mobs?

-No more wined instances (you hardly see someone using wines now)
* A reborn character with equipment above his/her own level makes wining obsolete. They blow through the low mobs as easy as old swordsman...

-Teles always over 25k, decreasing the amount of messages in wc, causing a sensation of dead server
* Haven't notice a decrease. PRIIEST is spammy regardless of tele prices.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Pretty much a combination of no packs that leave you with an excess of Perfect Tokens on sale, plus the OBVIOUS inflation that would occur due to botting.

See those seeeeeaaaassss of bots everywhere? They're making millions a day, each, some people are perhaps even multi multi clienting more than 2 bots.

So there is a tonne of excess coin being generated, to dump into the market, in the order of billions per day.

As always the 1st things that go up are the ordinary everyday commodities. So token shops know they can charge more and people will have the coin to pay. This will also start to affect gold prices if it hasn't already.

The secondary effect is prices for stuff that people no longer have time/nor care to farm will go up. Apoc pages is a good example. Also will likely increase COG prices.

Get ready for hyper inflation.

Satyrion - Sanctuary

I'm seriously damn happy that I bought my 9999 tokens for 11k'ish for my wings of ascension cape around a week before the token went up, now around 23k on Sanctuary.

I believe the apo pages drop rate is increased a lot since last expansion inside Brim and Eden. I cleaned Eden the other day till boss for an alt, on my way there dropped total 7 apo pages and that was without 2x. If somebody selling for 1mil, thats for sure a rip off.. I never paid more than 25k each and that was before the drop rate got increased.
Oracles are not worth doing anymore, because there is cheaper and faster ways of lvling now.
Flawless are not much worth it anymore due to the new ways of getting higher grades shards cheap.

Now that they put new and even more expensive packs in boutique not too long ago doesn't help much on token price either

Roseary - Sanctuary wrote: »

What new gear has come in packs that outdates older gear? Scroll of Tomes still seem in use, the rings and capes still seem in use as well.

If you take a look on the arks parcel packs you will see there are stuffs like sky cover and matchless wings, which arent a reward from the corals packs. I believe it was that kind of gear/packs he was talking about.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Interesting thing about all these market shifts... a lot of things are going up, but some other things are going down as well. Botting aside... token prices have doubled due to coin packs/inflation causing a lack of supply. On the other hand, raps/cannies have crashed due to overabundance and lack of other good things to use NW tokens on (making NW rather pointless too).

Solution? Add new exchange options for NW Tokens - particularly Tokens of Luck. Pack tokens will always have a floor price of 10k due to the wine exchange; therefore, you would effectively set any floor price you want for NW tokens. Want a NW token value of 200k? Set 1 NW token = 20 pack tokens. It'll make tokens more affordable, it'll give raps/cannies a respectable price without returning us to the Nirv days, and it'll make NW profitable again for more people. Everyone wins.

You could argue that making tokens this way cuts into pack profits for PWE, but I would argue that as long as the Lucky Coin packs sell better, PWE doesn't really need the original packs as much anymore.

Devilskarma - Raging Tide

Fail_BM - Raging Tide wrote: »

In that month I have been playing, I have seen token's price go over 30k, 3 times, because some random cashshopper bought most of them to obtain some profit.

Is every server having this kind of issue or is it RT only?b:shocked

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Actually it's probably the opposite given how merchanting tends to work. It was probably some wealthy merchant f2p who is manipulating the market, if such a manipulation really did occur on the market for tokens. Many merchants are f2p and are merchanting specifically because either they cannot or the will not spend the type of money people accuse them of spending.

I know exactly which faction of catshops did exactly this (I will not name them due to forum rules). Obviously they are a merchant-type... however, I have pieced together some info from various people that leads me to believe they are in fact a cashshopper... and a heavy one at that. I hope it is not who's alt I believe it is because I happen to have the numero uno suspect's main on my friendslist b:lipcurl I called out the catshop and it's faction in wc. They bought tokens at ~26,700 each... ALL OF THEM. and hiked up the price to ~36k. Naturally the rest of the lemmings hiked up their prices as well. None of these merchants seem to realize 2 major aspects, and I hope you (who caused and followed this) read this...

1. With token prices up, the majority of "low-end" (CS'ing $50 a week or less) cashshoppers and free to plays are getting royally screwed. And who are they gonna thank? I will keep calling you out on wc.

2. The method of actually making profit on tokens is high turnover rates... Hiking up prices like that has the exact opposite effect. I hope they eat those tokens.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Devilskarma - Raging Tide wrote: »

I know exactly which faction of catshops did exactly this (I will not name them due to forum rules). Obviously they are a merchant-type... however, I have pieced together some info from various people that leads me to believe they are in fact a cashshopper... and a heavy one at that. I hope it is not who's alt I believe it is because I happen to have the numero uno suspect's main on my friendslist b:lipcurl I called out the catshop and it's faction in wc. They bought tokens at ~26,700 each... ALL OF THEM. and hiked up the price to ~36k. Naturally the rest of the lemmings hiked up their prices as well. None of these merchants seem to realize 2 major aspects, and I hope you (who caused and followed this) read this...

1. With token prices up, the majority of "low-end" (CS'ing $50 a week or less) cashshoppers and free to plays are getting royally screwed. And who are they gonna thank? I will keep calling you out on wc.

2. The method of actually making profit on tokens is high turnover rates... Hiking up prices like that has the exact opposite effect. I hope they eat those tokens.

Unfortunately,

1) I don't think they will particularly care whether someone calls em out etc
2) People that need tokens have exactly what other option to obtain them? They will sell perhaps slightly slower, but sell nonetheless.

It's a win/win for token merchants. Oldest trick there was. Buy em all out, sell em for a hiked up price, laughing all the way to the bank. Monopoly at it's finest.

Also noble efforts by kitty btw. b:chuckle

Devilskarma - Raging Tide

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Unfortunately,

1) I don't think they will particularly care whether someone calls em out etc
2) People that need tokens have exactly what other option to obtain them? They will sell perhaps slightly slower, but sell nonetheless.

It's a win/win for token merchants. Oldest trick there was. Buy em all out, sell em for a hiked up price, laughing all the way to the bank. Monopoly at it's finest.

Also noble efforts by kitty btw. b:chuckle

1. might very well be the case
2. i'll just buy packs at that price... at least then I have a chance of getting something good for ~ the same price of buying the tokens per 15 tokens... a lil bit of wc'ing and others may well follow this trend as well, whether or not the merchants care

P.S. I bought kitty out at 29,500, but was only like 250 tokens. That is not gonna have an impact unfortunately. Kitty needs more tokens...

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Devilskarma - Raging Tide wrote: »

P.S. I bought kitty out at 29,500, but was only like 250 tokens. That is not gonna have an impact unfortunately. Kitty needs more tokens...

b:laugh

Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721

Devilskarma - Raging Tide wrote: »

P.S. I bought kitty out at 29,500, but was only like 250 tokens. That is not gonna have an impact unfortunately. Kitty needs more tokens...

Actually Kitty's point isn't in herself having that high supply, but to force other merchants with bigger supplies to lower their prices too. And Kitty's succeeded in that now, 29k per token on RT atm, down from 36k. f:cute

Fae_Harpy - Archosaur

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Interesting thing about all these market shifts... a lot of things are going up, but some other things are going down as well. Botting aside... tokens have toubled due to coin packs/inflation causing a lack of supply. On the other hand, raps/cannies have crashed due to overabundance and lack of other good things to use NW tokens on (making NW rather pointless too).

Solution? Add new exchange options for NW Tokens - particularly Tokens of Luck. Pack tokens will always have a floor price of 10k due to the wine exchange; therefore, you would effectively set any floor price you want for NW tokens. Want a NW token value of 200k? Set 1 NW token = 20 pack tokens. It'll make tokens more affordable, it'll give raps/cannies a respectable price without returning us to the Nirv days, and it'll make NW profitable again for more people. Everyone wins.

You could argue that making tokens this way cuts into pack profits for PWE, but I would argue that as long as the Lucky Coin packs sell better, PWE doesn't really need the original packs as much anymore.

I like this idea. I'm farming NW tokens right now for a Warsoul glaive (half way there), I'd love to just be able to exchange a couple of them for crab/herbs and maybe even apoths. I know they have those NW buffs you can get, but I'd rather be able to buy white tea and IG. On our server they go for about 60k each, so would be nice having them on the NW forge.

RankNine - Momaganon

now thats funny. morai has by far the highes gold price but token seem to be the cheapest among all servers.
and people complain.
people will always complain.
complain.

heerohex#3018

Wanna point out that NW numbers do not show the true Server numbers.

A lot of people dont do NW because of the cost and they have no need to do this any more. not to say a whole lot of other reasons!

May be we can suggest that they give us server numbers to the nearest 1,000? Would be an interesting idea.

Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721

Sheesh, Kitty was offline for an hour and instantly token prices rose over 1k...RT ish hopeless den of merchants it seems...=.='

Miugre - Heavens Tear

heero200 wrote: »

Wanna point out that NW numbers do not show the true Server numbers.

A lot of people dont do NW because of the cost and they have no need to do this any more. not to say a whole lot of other reasons!

I don't do NW anymore either, mostly because the tokens just aren't worth the time. That's why I suggested the option to exchange them for pack tokens. It'll lower pack token prices and raise NW token values, making it worth doing again.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Why all this bashing on merchant? b:shocked

Merchants are cool people, they make you strive for better.

It is baboons who do not understand how things work, are running around on rt b:laugh. Everyone should move to sanctuary b:victory.

There are lots of rich merchants on sanctuary, but i don't think most of them tamper with prices for that long consistently. We tend to have too many sellers, or buyers depending on the occasion.

Let's say a merchant says, 700k = good price for a pack. After 6~12 hours, that pack would be selling at 500~600k, because mindless baboons overtake things in sanctuary as well. At that point big boys can reduce price to compete, or just wait for the baboons to migrate.

We must fight the baboons b:angry.

Roseary - Sanctuary

Satyrion - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you take a look on the arks parcel packs you will see there are stuffs like sky cover and matchless wings, which arent a reward from the corals packs. I believe it was that kind of gear/packs he was talking about.

Those have been around so long I consider them old now. I can see how I got confused when whoever suggest new power in packs.