For All The Money We Give You Why Cant We Have A Properly Run Game?

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  • SpectreBR - Dreamweaver
    SpectreBR - Dreamweaver Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I laugh when people say "Its not PWE's fault, China developed everything..."

    Do they send the money they earn on gold and stuff directly to China, too?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Biodegradable post, doesnt harm the environment, only users.
  • SeaGinger - Archosaur
    SeaGinger - Archosaur Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

    chapter 1: ignorant medic

    ran tracers and what not, the problem is not my 6.9 index set up, it is the internap, which has to do with the rates they pay for data priority since that determines which internap they use. so no again...not me...pw playing cheap.

    it works for me, i barely lag and i dont have anything even close to a gaming PC, so its either you or your ISP or pwi loves me and doesnt let me lag and it hates your for constant QQ threads, its all a conspiracy man


    chapter 2: balancing graysons without being a d***

    the classes are balanced in your opinion? surrrrrreeeee.....it's why everyone [EVERYONE] has a sin and still qq's about them and nobody is talking about clerics need a nerf. the debuffs sins mainly use were not affected by passive skills, the seal debuffs clerics use were basically cut in half, without any compensation. clerics and sins the same? prolly...same treatment when in development? hell to the no.

    QQing about a sin is easy since whoever is QQing is just lazy.

    sins are the easiest class to kill in the game, they are pretty much the equivalent of a psy who is always in Black voodoo. Sins are the only class in game who have no phy/mag/def lvl buff, they have a buff that saves em from death, it has a pretty long cooldown, buffs that either has a low chance of evading damage or a high chance of evading CC(fusion of both but lower % if demon). If youre having problems with a sin you either dont know how to kite or youre just not attacking it.

    In my experience ive had an easier time dealing with r9rr sins than any others, just because of the fact that they take more damage.

    Ive seen a Cleric in TW run into a group of people, kill off a couple then kite away 10-15 people, most of them sins, many of them R9rr, and picking them off. Worst part her gears didnt compare to yours in sharding and refines, at least she didnt last time i saw her do that anyway. so if youre having such a bad time with sins id say the problem your skill.

    i recomend you make a sin and play around a while and see their (massive) weaknesses or duel a sin over and over and i do mean duel, no charms, genie, pots, etc. then slowly over the course of many duels introduce them back. By the time you are PKing again with the sin you just might start noticing the balance.



    chapter 3: money talks

    i put money in so yes i do deserve a say so. and though i may be a minority in posting these issues, look around. people are and have been having a crapload of issues with this game. why are our forums consistently so negative? i have looked at others. i dun wanna mention names cause i know how sensitive they are about information getting out about better mmo's, but i have seen it. a problem comes up...devs and gms investigate..a solution is proposed after the findings are in...the proposed change is tested then implemented...with the whole process taking 4-6 weeks, that is not too much to ask for. i'd even tack on two extra weeks here to account for time and language barriers. if we the people who pay and play here, keep sending our money to china for them to provide us with automated service [where is waldo? can't find him cause he's a gm] then we deserve the bs we receive.

    if you haven't figured it out yet let me illuminate. everything on the china server is slower paced. the have far less r9's and 3r9's than we do here cause unlike us the have to farm stuff, not just buy it. and they unlike us have the ability to farm dragon orbs so people do that. so everything comes here gets released and then they watch the sparks fly and fix what needs to be fixed before the community over there catches up to it.

    You seem to have forgotten a very important thing, this is a free to play game, they make their money off they make their money of people like you who decide to put in money into the game, does that mean you deserve any special treatment, hell no. You put in money and you get something out of it, youre not donating it. Your money earns you the ability to skip farming for money like others do, it earns you the ability to have better gear than most in no time, thats as far as your money takes you.

    Theres a LOT of people who slowly farmed their r9rr, i know many in arch and if you look around in forums you will find a lot more. seeing as you openly admit that you put money in game im gonna assume that you didnt farm your gear, so are you complaining about people that are doing the same as you?

    Im not saying the game is bugless cuz it obviously isnt, but do you wonder why are you in the minority of all these QQ threads? Its simple, these glitches dont break the game and most importantly we all know they are working on it, could be faster but they are being worked on.

    last chapter: unrelated title that has no meaning or connection with the others before it

    i love america...free speech. qq after qq after qq after qq. call it what you may. how they are handling these classes, this expansion and this community in general is simply and plainly put: wrong. should i sit and accept it? no. especially when others are saying the same thing i am and are just not up to fighting off the people like you who don't want the game to close here cause of negative publicity and are happy cause they made one of the four classes meant to dominate here.



    in this entire post you spoke of lag...that is a known issue, so everyone has outdated or low powered pc's?

    My PC is outdated, i havent added anything to make it stronger for gaming since i bought it about 3-4 years ago, my internet is 10mb. if im not multi clienting, downloading stuff or in a tw meeting spot im not lagging. I guess PWI just likes me then

    next was balance...if you took a course in game design then you should know the intrinsic value of class balance and why it is so important to strive for. it enriches your community based and increases the probability that there will be more social interaction cause everyone is playing everything so squads for missions in your world form more easily. look at the community here. let's just take archo, super hard to get grinding runs going if you are not well known, pk is dead cause of bullies and lack of class diversity [everyone is on a archer sin barb or psy] and wc? you say i argue in wc? most of my arguments in wc have been to defend a friend, squash some drama or getting cyberbullies to shut up. that is the extent of our community interaction now.

    Theres so much wrong in that paragraph, lets start with PK, its a PVE server, i went to it because i didnt want to pk, if you want PK go to a PK server, there the choice to PK but you shouldnt expect to find a PK rich community in a PVE server. Class diversity, i dunno where have you been standing but theres only 2 classes you dont stumble upon regularly, wizards and mystics. and even if those were the only classes people played, what is it to you? its their character, cant they play whatever they like? are you the class police? Grinding runs, you dont need to be well known, if youre having issues getting into grinds its probably because for a long time now youve been known as one of the least reliable clerics in the server. Class balance, again tey are quite balanced, youre just too busy looking at them through QQ colored glasses to see it.

    again referring to class balance...if you see the classes as balanced it is a good thing you choose an alternate path. game design is not for you. if you wanna go in length as to why post on my other thread as this is not meant to be the meat of this one. but it is obvious the crit system needs to be reworked for the least.

    The Crit system needs a rework? as soon as you say i have nothing to do with game design you come out saying something that shows you dont know what youre talking about. Crit is fine as it is, i saw before you wanted heavy and arcane classes to have more critrate based on their str and mag respectively. Light classes have the WORST armor in the game, ive been in squads with g16 arcanes that double my defenses, their attacks never miss and you want them to have better critrate too? heavys not only hit hard but have insane phy def and you want them to have better crits on top of that?

    the only thing sins and archers have going for them is crits, their defenses are paper thin and the only thing they have is crits , non crits are pitiful, thats whats called balance. Every Class shouldnt be the same, they need to have their own quirks. You talk as if you knew everything, if you were so good youd be designing your own MMO, but youre not.

    i play all classes in the game, im better at ones than others, but one thing im sure of is, not one has an unfair advantage over another.

    next was money...i don't think i have to defend my right to comment on something i have contributed to. spend the money to improve the game here...where the income is generated. how do you do that? have some of the devs work here...not only in china. it's the internet. it is possible for them to have a presence here and be home in time for moo goo gai pan. our community and play style is different from theirs, they cherish tradition and conformity.

    Like i said before the money you spend here goes into licencing, salaries, maintaining the servers ect. youre not donating your money youre buying stuff ingame. just because you spend money doesnt mean PWE is your employee, they dont have to do what you say, in fact, im pretty sure they wont, no matter how many QQ Threads you make.

    problem is when the rest of us leave and with no new blood is coming in who will support this house of cards? but instead of enticing us to stay by having people here to figure out what it is we want/need, they are doing like you, being indifferent as to if we decide to stay and hope/fight it out or simply give up and leave. is that any way to reward customer loyalty?

    Ive known a lot of people that had quit and came back after the new horizons update, they happily spending money in game and enjoying it instead of making QQ threads. if updates keep bringing new and interesting stuff into the game, no mater how buggy it is it looks like PWI is gonna keep on running without you

    last you complained about thread after thread, some of them as similar, others are not. you saw and read at least some of it. even if you don't agree the issues i care about, here they got some exposure, that was my goal. mission accomplished.

    if your mission was to keep a negative thread in forums open at all times, i guess youve been doing great, go you b:surrender

    replies in red
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited March 2014
    SeaGinger - Archosaur wrote: »
    replies in red
    Very good response, and I've got to agree with the majority of what you're saying there.

    I've been the under-geared cleric in TW myself. It's pretty funny holding off a couple of R9rr sins that are trying to take out the "support" cleric and then having the both of them either die, or run away when I don't fall over and actually offer up resistance.


    I've said it before, If the game were balanced the way some people apparently think class balances "should" work, it would be boring as hell because gear would be the only deciding factor. PvP is gimped enough in this game as it is.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • PVM_only - Sanctuary
    PVM_only - Sanctuary Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    1.only for you

    2. compensate for what? if you lag on that time i bet that 5 min after you are on to run the bh that you dont talk here so i guess bh you have no lag... strange

    3.if its on another post shoulnd be here

    4.the game is actually pretty balanced if same gear and same refines. if you dont have means you need to farm more, or has other ppl say cashshop

    5.you really wanna compare pwcn to pwi? ok lets start simple... you know how mutch a mirage costs there? you know gold price there? you have any idea? ok i help... a mirage simply costs 100k and you can imagine gold


    i personally believe given the events...

    this is a comunity game so we dont really care your personal opinion cause you are 1 in 10 million players. grow a sack learn the game study economy to make money get gear stop complain

    my point is before going forward you have to look back. this has been a continual issue and a continual decline. no balance, no streamlined play,...bla bla bla

    you realize that we have more event, more expansions and more updates and fixes that other game has? no other game has this many patches to improve and get new things... think a bit be4 open the thing you call mouth cause this game that you call **** (and still plays) its better then manymore games out there that is FREE to play... you whant a game that has no lag no OP charge gears (i farm but seems you cant) try pay everymonth play or not in other games like WOW.


    Debuffs need to be adjusted, or new ones created....

    not really yu just need to really use the ones you have... i see ppl that for example dont even have a lvl 10 dimensional skill


    [dex*0.5]+[str*0.3]+[mag*0.2]/20...

    know that mutch start a server and get your own balance, then all the obove is fixed... right?

    The magic number for how the crit system should work. everybody gets a little crit for free, dex gets the most. not just dex only.....

    dude really? ever stopped to think that magic classes NEVER miss a target and archers and sins do miss targets ohhand also barbs (they miss arma on me) so to BALANCE (thats a word you like right?) they gave more crit rate to those classes to balance the misses but i guess you though of that be4 post cause the game is against you


    Paralyze needs to be adjusted, find another way to balance the purify proc... ok so remove all the anti-stuns in the game... better yet remove all the stuns WOW even better remove all skills just leave normal attack and lets be all on the same class that dont know to play and just attacks with no skills like you (ops)
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    PVM_only - Sanctuary wrote: »
    1.only for you

    2. compensate for what? if you lag on that time i bet that 5 min after you are on to run the bh that you dont talk here so i guess bh you have no lag... strange

    3.if its on another post shoulnd be here

    4.the game is actually pretty balanced if same gear and same refines. if you dont have means you need to farm more, or has other ppl say cashshop

    5.you really wanna compare pwcn to pwi? ok lets start simple... you know how mutch a mirage costs there? you know gold price there? you have any idea? ok i help... a mirage simply costs 100k and you can imagine gold


    i personally believe given the events...

    this is a comunity game so we dont really care your personal opinion cause you are 1 in 10 million players. grow a sack learn the game study economy to make money get gear stop complain

    my point is before going forward you have to look back. this has been a continual issue and a continual decline. no balance, no streamlined play,...bla bla bla

    you realize that we have more event, more expansions and more updates and fixes that other game has? no other game has this many patches to improve and get new things... think a bit be4 open the thing you call mouth cause this game that you call **** (and still plays) its better then manymore games out there that is FREE to play... you whant a game that has no lag no OP charge gears (i farm but seems you cant) try pay everymonth play or not in other games like WOW.


    Debuffs need to be adjusted, or new ones created....

    not really yu just need to really use the ones you have... i see ppl that for example dont even have a lvl 10 dimensional skill


    [dex*0.5]+[str*0.3]+[mag*0.2]/20...

    know that mutch start a server and get your own balance, then all the obove is fixed... right?

    The magic number for how the crit system should work. everybody gets a little crit for free, dex gets the most. not just dex only.....

    dude really? ever stopped to think that magic classes NEVER miss a target and archers and sins do miss targets ohhand also barbs (they miss arma on me) so to BALANCE (thats a word you like right?) they gave more crit rate to those classes to balance the misses but i guess you though of that be4 post cause the game is against you


    Paralyze needs to be adjusted, find another way to balance the purify proc... ok so remove all the anti-stuns in the game... better yet remove all the stuns WOW even better remove all skills just leave normal attack and lets be all on the same class that dont know to play and just attacks with no skills like you (ops)

    personal attacks negates any valid points you had, frankly i have said what i wanted to and enough people i know agree. it seems that most of you trolls are the more vocal ones so i will drop this continued debate with you here. say what you like from here on in. i will not be responding to your posts.
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    SeaGinger - Archosaur wrote: »
    chapter 1: ignorant medic

    ran tracers and what not, the problem is not my 6.9 index set up, it is the internap, which has to do with the rates they pay for data priority since that determines which internap they use. so no again...not me...pw playing cheap.

    it works for me, i barely lag and i dont have anything even close to a gaming PC, so its either you or your ISP or pwi loves me and doesnt let me lag and it hates your for constant QQ threads, its all a conspiracy man

    maybe i dont use the same internap you do?...instead of just assuming i am wrong on this ask around, the number of people affected has been decreasing i addmit, but there are still enough of us affected for me to say something here


    chapter 2: balancing graysons without being a d***

    the classes are balanced in your opinion? surrrrrreeeee.....it's why everyone [EVERYONE] has a sin and still qq's about them and nobody is talking about clerics need a nerf. the debuffs sins mainly use were not affected by passive skills, the seal debuffs clerics use were basically cut in half, without any compensation. clerics and sins the same? prolly...same treatment when in development? hell to the no.

    QQing about a sin is easy since whoever is QQing is just lazy.

    sins are the easiest class to kill in the game, they are pretty much the equivalent of a psy who is always in Black voodoo. Sins are the only class in game who have no phy/mag/def lvl buff, they have a buff that saves em from death, it has a pretty long cooldown, buffs that either has a low chance of evading damage or a high chance of evading CC(fusion of both but lower % if demon). If you're having problems with a sin you either don't know how to kite or you're just not attacking it.

    so i, like so many others who voiced concerns, are lazy now? been sharpening my skills on kiting and practiced with friends, so i am not above checking out your advise and changing my style up as i was debuff heavy before and now debuffs are not as effect as they were. the never-ending crit to crit zerk, still is a problem.

    In my experience ive had an easier time dealing with r9rr sins than any others, just because of the fact that they take more damage.

    Ive seen a Cleric in TW run into a group of people, kill off a couple then kite away 10-15 people, most of them sins, many of them R9rr, and picking them off. Worst part her gears didn't compare to yours in sharding and refines, at least she didn't last time i saw her do that anyway. so if you're having such a bad time with sins id say the problem your skill.

    i call bs on this one cause if they were all trying to kill her and they were in comparable gear, she'd be dead. if your response is gonna continually be: 'it's you, you suck, you're fail' or anything on that slant then i'd say we're done. not gonna engage that kinda talk. everything i have mentioned has a non-personal reason i feel that way. i don't mind a good debate keep it clean.

    i recommend you make a sin and play around a while and see their (massive) weaknesses or duel a sin over and over and i do mean duel, no charms, genie, pots, etc. then slowly over the course of many duels introduce them back. By the time you are PKing again with the sin you just might start noticing the balance.

    i have on 2r9+12 currently, i find sins boring, especially now. to easy to pk on. that is my personal opinion however. my point in mentioning it is i have done the work on sins. i am not just talking about a class i have never pk'd on. have i practiced on one to be pro? no, the challenge to do so was lacking, it still is.....



    chapter 3: money talks

    i put money in so yes i do deserve a say so. and though i may be a minority in posting these issues, look around. people are and have been having a crapload of issues with this game. why are our forums consistently so negative? i have looked at others. i dun wanna mention names cause i know how sensitive they are about information getting out about better mmo's, but i have seen it. a problem comes up...devs and gms investigate..a solution is proposed after the findings are in...the proposed change is tested then implemented...with the whole process taking 4-6 weeks, that is not too much to ask for. i'd even tack on two extra weeks here to account for time and language barriers. if we the people who pay and play here, keep sending our money to china for them to provide us with automated service [where is waldo? can't find him cause he's a gm] then we deserve the bs we receive.

    if you haven't figured it out yet let me illuminate. everything on the china server is slower paced. the have far less r9's and 3r9's than we do here cause unlike us the have to farm stuff, not just buy it. and they unlike us have the ability to farm dragon orbs so people do that. so everything comes here gets released and then they watch the sparks fly and fix what needs to be fixed before the community over there catches up to it.

    You seem to have forgotten a very important thing, this is a free to play game, they make their money off they make their money of people like you who decide to put in money into the game, does that mean you deserve any special treatment, hell no. You put in money and you get something out of it, you're not donating it. Your money earns you the ability to skip farming for money like others do, it earns you the ability to have better gear than most in no time, that's as far as your money takes you.

    There's a LOT of people who slowly farmed their r9rr, i know many in arch and if you look around in forums you will find a lot more. seeing as you openly admit that you put money in game i'm gonna assume that you didn't farm your gear, so are you complaining about people that are doing the same as you?

    I bought my first r9 set and farmed the other two before the mogs were taken out the dq list, why would i complain about that? i don't see where you draw that inference from. i have not forgotten it's free to play. what i am saying is i believed in the game strongly enough to warrant a decision for me to invest money as did alot of other people. your profit margin has narrowed severely since this expansion has dropped. look it up if you don't believe me. even if i am unable to convince you with my words, the available data speaks for itself.

    I'm not saying the game is bugless cuz it obviously isn't, but do you wonder why are you in the minority of all these QQ threads? Its simple, these glitches don't break the game and most importantly we all know they are working on it, could be faster but they are being worked on.

    last chapter: unrelated title that has no meaning or connection with the others before it

    i love america...free speech. qq after qq after qq after qq. call it what you may. how they are handling these classes, this expansion and this community in general is simply and plainly put: wrong. should i sit and accept it? no. especially when others are saying the same thing i am and are just not up to fighting off the people like you who don't want the game to close here cause of negative publicity and are happy cause they made one of the four classes meant to dominate here.



    in this entire post you spoke of lag...that is a known issue, so everyone has outdated or low powered pc's?

    My PC is outdated, i havent added anything to make it stronger for gaming since i bought it about 3-4 years ago, my internet is 10mb. if im not multi clienting, downloading stuff or in a tw meeting spot im not lagging. I guess PWI just likes me then

    again....different internap?

    next was balance...if you took a course in game design then you should know the intrinsic value of class balance and why it is so important to strive for. it enriches your community based and increases the probability that there will be more social interaction cause everyone is playing everything so squads for missions in your world form more easily. look at the community here. let's just take archo, super hard to get grinding runs going if you are not well known, pk is dead cause of bullies and lack of class diversity [everyone is on a archer sin barb or psy] and wc? you say i argue in wc? most of my arguments in wc have been to defend a friend, squash some drama or getting cyberbullies to shut up. that is the extent of our community interaction now.

    There's so much wrong in that paragraph, lets start with PK, its a PVE server, i went to it because i didn't want to pk, if you want PK go to a PK server, there the choice to PK but you shouldn't expect to find a PK rich community in a PVE server. Class diversity, i dunno where have you been standing but there's only 2 classes you don't stumble upon regularly, wizards and mystics. and even if those were the only classes people played, what is it to you? its their character, cant they play whatever they like? are you the class police? Grinding runs, you don't need to be well known, if you're having issues getting into grinds its probably because for a long time now you've been known as one of the least reliable clerics in the server. Class balance, again they are quite balanced, you're just too busy looking at them through QQ colored glasses to see it.

    again i ask keep it clean. attack what i say with attacking me. i know you are smart enough to do that based on your dialogue so far. okay next, no i am not the class police. i am saying if it was favorable to play all the classes then all the classes would be played and pk'd with. as it stands it is not. least reliable? not even going there cause i was not talking of myself. i have no reason to grind. i was speaking of friends and newcomers that i have had to wc a squad for then leave. and if you read the blog they [pwcn] freely admits the classes are supposed to work on a rock paper scissor system. inherent to a system based one class trumping another, is the subset stratification. subset of classes A can beat subset of classes B, classes B beats C, C beats A. if A can beat B, and your updates made it more resistant to C. you've messed up your own system.

    again referring to class balance...if you see the classes as balanced it is a good thing you choose an alternate path. game design is not for you. if you wanna go in length as to why post on my other thread as this is not meant to be the meat of this one. but it is obvious the crit system needs to be reworked for the least.

    The Crit system needs a rework? as soon as you say i have nothing to do with game design you come out saying something that shows you don't know what you're talking about. Crit is fine as it is, i saw before you wanted heavy and arcane classes to have more crit rate based on their str and mag respectively. Light classes have the WORST armor in the game, i've been in squads with g16 arcanes that double my defenses, their attacks never miss and you want them to have better crit rate too? heavys not only hit hard but have insane phy def and you want them to have better crits on top of that?

    the only thing sins and archers have going for them is crits, their defenses are paper thin and the only thing they have is crits, non crits are pitiful, that's whats called balance. Every Class shouldn't be the same, they need to have their own quirks. You talk as if you knew everything, if you were so good you'd be designing your own MMO, but youre not.


    i play all classes in the game, im better at ones than others, but one thing im sure of is, not one has an unfair advantage over another.

    If you are okay with crits being tied to one stat and one stat only then ok. we can agree to disagree here. i know everything? that's just childish. so i think i have a legitimate cause to write? sure. whereas i can admit you have given me stuff to think about, can you say the same? or is your only concern about trying to squash a thread you don't agree with?

    next was money...i don't think i have to defend my right to comment on something i have contributed to. spend the money to improve the game here...where the income is generated. how do you do that? have some of the devs work here...not only in china. it's the internet. it is possible for them to have a presence here and be home in time for moo goo gai pan. our community and play style is different from theirs, they cherish tradition and conformity.

    Like i said before the money you spend here goes into licencing, salaries, maintaining the servers ect. youre not donating your money youre buying stuff ingame. just because you spend money doesnt mean PWE is your employee, they dont have to do what you say, in fact, im pretty sure they wont, no matter how many QQ Threads you make.

    Don't want them to be my employee. i want them to care enough to design content and exapnsions that cater to the target market here by reaching out and communicating with us more than they have been. that is not asking for something unreasonable.

    problem is when the rest of us leave and with no new blood is coming in who will support this house of cards? but instead of enticing us to stay by having people here to figure out what it is we want/need, they are doing like you, being indifferent as to if we decide to stay and hope/fight it out or simply give up and leave. is that any way to reward customer loyalty?

    Ive known a lot of people that had quit and came back after the new horizons update, they happily spending money in game and enjoying it instead of making QQ threads. if updates keep bringing new and interesting stuff into the game, no mater how buggy it is it looks like PWI is gonna keep on running without you

    the company's profit margins say otherwise.

    last you complained about thread after thread, some of them as similar, others are not. you saw and read at least some of it. even if you don't agree the issues i care about, here they got some exposure, that was my goal. mission accomplished.

    if your mission was to keep a negative thread in forums open at all times, i guess you've been doing great, go you

    my mission was what i said before. i can't control how people respond. if you wanna hat you are going to no matter what i say or how i say it. not everyone is gonna agree with me and seeing how the patriots of this game are on here more than the rebels i expect my views to be continually attacked moreso than defended. that's ok. cause it's through these debates i as a player grow. i read some stuff, i write some stuff and it is the exchange of ideas that inspiration hits. but again dialogue works best when we are kind to each other in the forum, stick to the topic at hand, speak clearly and refrain form all the little snide remarks and comments that detract from the meat of the conversation.

    all in all have fun, be kind do you. this is how i feel, so i will speak up.
  • Summerhope - Heavens Tear
    Summerhope - Heavens Tear Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Buffing crits for casters?
    b:victory Full support here, i'd love to go crit more than currently 45% on my cleric, makes 1shotting r9 sins easier with silly nirv s3 gear easier and stuff you knowb:thanks
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    summerhope - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    buffing Crits For Casters?
    B:victory Full Support Here, I'd Love To Go Crit More Than Currently 45% On My Cleric, Makes 1shotting R9 Sins Easier With Silly Nirv S3 Gear Easier And Stuff You Knowb:thanks

    Lol K
  • SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear
    SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear Posts: 703 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Ok uhhhhhh plz ban me from the forums i think i seen enough now ,this page will make the bible cry its so damn long and has red text!
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Ok uhhhhhh plz ban me from the forums i think i seen enough now ,this page will make the bible cry its so damn long and has red text!
    ok lol?
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Just Ran A Few More Rounds Thru...really Cant Do ANYthing To An Endgeared Barb. Lmao And This Is Balance?
  • PVM_only - Sanctuary
    PVM_only - Sanctuary Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »
    Just Ran A Few More Rounds Thru...really Cant Do ANYthing To An Endgeared Barb. Lmao And This Is Balance?


    try lvl get better gear?

    cause im a cleric and i chew barb and spit them out
  • Teiw - Sanctuary
    Teiw - Sanctuary Posts: 170 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    To Auerlius:


    One of my best friends and few remaining faction mates is a barb with full nirvana 2nd cast gear, +7 refines all over, and he gets one shot by clerics in NW at times, it depends on the cleric but
    you call that fair? If the men in robes who were supposed to be healing your butt can kill you in one shot, you would probably ragequit the game soooo fast. b:angry
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited April 2014
    Teiw - Sanctuary wrote: »
    To Auerlius:


    One of my best friends and few remaining faction mates is a barb with full nirvana 2nd cast gear, +7 refines all over, and he gets one shot by clerics in NW at times, it depends on the cleric but
    you call that fair? If the men in robes who were supposed to be healing your butt can kill you in one shot, you would probably ragequit the game soooo fast. b:angry

    I'd ask how much HP they have. I can two-shot most APS barbs. takes 3 or 4 if they've got some decent points to VIT or have good gear. Throw them into decent R9 recast though and I usually can't break through their HP charm. Usually those have spent quite a bit on gear and have 30-40k hp though.

    Keep in mind, my frame of reference here is as a pure build demon cleric with only marginally refined/sharded R8.

    Oh, yeah, and I play on a "CareBear" server.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    PVM_only - Sanctuary wrote: »
    try lvl get better gear?

    cause im a cleric and i chew barb and spit them out
    i am in near end game gear, a barb in equal gear can wear you down till you exhaust you paralyze defenses then it's over. i highly doubt you spit and chew out a barb in eqal gear since they are the most op atm and can tank squads.
  • SeaGinger - Archosaur
    SeaGinger - Archosaur Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    so, you cant beat sins, barbs and archers. if i go from your posts im guessing you cant beat psys since you add them to the list of classes that pwi only cares about. if i remember archers beat you cuz of purge so im guessing you cant fight venos for the same reason. reading all the clerics reply to your posts and you not believing they can do these things, im guessing you cant beat other clerics... what can you beat?
  • archerlover101
    archerlover101 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    this game is **** now all about power lvl and cash shop i suggest all to leave this game and start another, ur just wasting ur time with these noob gms that cant do anything right
  • PVM_only - Sanctuary
    PVM_only - Sanctuary Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »
    i am in near end game gear, a barb in equal gear can wear you down till you exhaust you paralyze defenses then it's over. i highly doubt you spit and chew out a barb in eqal gear since they are the most op atm and can tank squads.


    you near end game gear... lvl 95.. you need 300k rep r999 rb2 and refine and shard....

    if you dont charge zen you have work for at least 6 month... and you near?

    im a rb2 103/101/101 cleric pure mag r999 (that i just got, be4 that i was full g16 +6 or above)
    clerics can perm sleep some1 and do dmg without waking them up... some dont even hit me once some yes hit me and when they stun me is like... plume shell plume shell... but not many can really make me run for it.... think i have a SS or 2 or some barbs i hit on NW and i crit them for 40k+ and i see them using r9 weapon (im not gonna say : w8 let me see gear be4 hit you)

    be4 you complain more and trash my reply try get to high lvl get g16 and if you see you need more get r999... the game is balanced but you need to know your class and not beeing an fcc baby that knows to normal attack and has skills lvl 1 (not saying you are one but happens).
  • Viktorian - Archosaur
    Viktorian - Archosaur Posts: 746 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    PVM_only - Sanctuary wrote: »
    you near end game gear... lvl 95.. you need 300k rep r999 rb2 and refine and shard....

    if you dont charge zen you have work for at least 6 month... and you near?

    im a rb2 103/101/101 cleric pure mag r999 (that i just got, be4 that i was full g16 +6 or above)
    clerics can perm sleep some1 and do dmg without waking them up... some dont even hit me once some yes hit me and when they stun me is like... plume shell plume shell... but not many can really make me run for it.... think i have a SS or 2 or some barbs i hit on NW and i crit them for 40k+ and i see them using r9 weapon (im not gonna say : w8 let me see gear be4 hit you)

    be4 you complain more and trash my reply try get to high lvl get g16 and if you see you need more get r999... the game is balanced but you need to know your class and not beeing an fcc baby that knows to normal attack and has skills lvl 1 (not saying you are one but happens).

    idk y it says lvl 95. prob rebrithed or glitch. auer was 104 i think before rb came out. and he does have rrr9. maybe before u post u read and see wat gear he has? im pretty sure it says it somewhere
    Servers: Archosaur(PvE US West) and Harshlands (PvP US East)
    Chars: Viktorian(100 2Rb Celestial Demon BM) PurpleHealz (100 Celestial Sage Cleric) DagsAway (95 Assassin)
    [SIGPIC][/Sigpic]
  • Sparafucile - Harshlands
    Sparafucile - Harshlands Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »
    For All The Money We Give Why Can't We Have A Properly Run Game?

    Because Unicorns

    Free the Pokemons!!! Smash the Pokeballs!!!
    I have Luke Skywalker on a wibble-wobble; your argument is invalid
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Some people cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go.
    Don't call me a care bear; I don't care whether you can bear me or not

    Sparafucile: SweetieBot, pple is NOT a word
    SweetieBot: Your face is not a word
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    SeaGinger - Archosaur wrote: »
    so, you cant beat sins, barbs and archers. if i go from your posts im guessing you cant beat psys since you add them to the list of classes that pwi only cares about. if i remember archers beat you cuz of purge so im guessing you cant fight venos for the same reason. reading all the clerics reply to your posts and you not believing they can do these things, im guessing you cant beat other clerics... what can you beat?
    so you still trying ginger. must i kill your insipid remarks here too? psy archers sins and barbs are the top tier pvp classes atm, if you wanna argue that, then we can but i think you know what 99% of pwi knows. LA have a signifigant advantage now cause of the uber crits, 22% chance of zerk critting is broken and is possible. if my post is so off, check out the new thread how sins are more overpowered now than ever. you gonna disagree with that thread too?finally we are on the same server. if you are so sure i dunno how to play, come find me anmd test me. i'll gear down so gear is not a factor. cause unless you do you won't know, and your endless prattle will not have any merit.
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    PVM_only - Sanctuary wrote: »
    you near end game gear... lvl 95.. you need 300k rep r999 rb2 and refine and shard....

    if you dont charge zen you have work for at least 6 month... and you near?

    im a rb2 103/101/101 cleric pure mag r999 (that i just got, be4 that i was full g16 +6 or above)
    clerics can perm sleep some1 and do dmg without waking them up... some dont even hit me once some yes hit me and when they stun me is like... plume shell plume shell... but not many can really make me run for it.... think i have a SS or 2 or some barbs i hit on NW and i crit them for 40k+ and i see them using r9 weapon (im not gonna say : w8 let me see gear be4 hit you)

    be4 you complain more and trash my reply try get to high lvl get g16 and if you see you need more get r999... the game is balanced but you need to know your class and not beeing an fcc baby that knows to normal attack and has skills lvl 1 (not saying you are one but happens).


    make a toon on archo then ask for me. i'll come show you.
  • exeys
    exeys Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    -Great wall of text warning-

    Okay...I'm not sure if this is the right thread to put it but seeing that it seems to be mainly (the more recent posts anyway) about how certain classes are more or less "broken" compared to others, I suppose this may be a place to start. I've occasionally pored through this thread for the past month or so, and after some thought on the matter, I figured that maybe I should impart some of my thoughts into this discussion.

    To Auer: (not trying to single you out, but you're the main poster/replier on this thread so I supposed I'd address you here)

    As a cleric who mainly do mass/group PvP on Archosaur server, more so than 1v1 or 2v2 PK, there are some thoughts I have that differ from yours I suppose. I personally request that you finish reading this entire post before posting your response to it - my thoughts in this post are only shown somewhat when all the following paragraphs are taken in as a single unified entity, rather than a series of separate, disconnected thoughts.

    Yes, I do have my own feelings about some newer skills that just came out for certain classes - but even then, I do keep in mind that in many cases, the people I fight against have gear/stats and/or player skill level that are different from mine - some are probably better in one or both, some probably worse in one or both. With that in mind, the individual aspects of a certain class that some call as OP, such as "Paralyze" skills for Barbs, etc or "Zerk crits" for Sins/Seekers, or "Purge proc" for Archers, become less relevant when the other two factors are considered. Yes, we can go in the direction about "if two classes have equal gear/stats and skill..." ...but...there's more to the picture than just these two factors.

    A third (equally important) factor is....the playstyle of the player(s) involved. It may be easy to lump playstyle with player skill, but it can be seen as something distinct, especially when the parties involved are reasonably equal in terms of "skill". The fact is...unless there's evidence that some who PvP in this game are actually computers, it would be safe to assume that virtually everyone who goes out into PvP are indeed human to some extent. And just like humans have fairly unique personalities, playstyles follow a similar idea. There's many many playstyles out there, at least as many as the number of people who go out to PvP here. Some may even have multiple styles for all we know. It would be strange from my point of view to think that any one person has a playstyle that counters every possible playstyle from every other class in the game. This means that there will be times where even the most geared/skilled players lose, etc - and it could be simply because their playstyle happens to be disadvantageous in a given situation.

    Another thing that comes along with the "human" element of PvP is "mistakes." Perhaps a click of a wrong button in the heat of the moment, a mistimed apoth from overexcitement, not noticing that your HP charm is at 13k hp, or even something as simple as "not noticing" that the opponent has just dumped an anti-stun, immunity, etc. The vast majority of skills/apoth/genie skills come with cooldowns, chi cost, or genie stamina cost, so the outcome of a fight can sometimes be sealed by just one critical mistake. A lot of fights boil down to how serious the mistakes are, how many mistakes were made, and whether or not the opponent can catch it in progress and capitalize on the momentary weakness.

    From personal experience, many of the outcomes of my own PvP fights depend on whether I made a serious mistake (or mistakes) somewhere along the line - or...in some cases, whether or not I make them before my opponent does. I know I'm not the best player on the Archosaur server, let alone all the servers, but I can say with certainty that even the best players in the game will **** up at some point. Part of PvP really is how quickly we can improvise to correct it. In addition to mistakes, I suppose we could also add in other human elements to this category as well - such as emotions, fatigue, state of mind, physical limitations (someone with missing fingers on one hand may plays differently than someone who has all their digits for instance). and so forth, because those too, can potentially affect fights in dramatic ways. After all..humans are not perfect.

    From the four things I wrote about above, yes, sometimes when I die in PvP it could also be because of "something OP", but the point is, it's not a black-and-white picture. The chance of someone equally geared as me and at the same time have the same player skill as me is quite low..so yes, the argument can be made there, but how often does it apply in practice? Not often. Add in the fairly unique playstyle, and the error aspects, and there's no clear-cut way to point out with 100% certainty that it was due to a broken aspect of a certain class in the game.

    Now all this I have written so far could have been just about 1 vs 1 scenario. But there is more than just 1v1 PvP in this game.

    There is a whole division of PvP that doesn't involve 1v1 (or 2v2 for that matter). There is group/mass PvP, where there could easily be much more people than the average skilled player can keep track of continuously. This typically further makes reduces the role of a single class's "OPness" and adds even more weight to the four things I wrote above, because suddenly you have to deal with not only the enemies you see, but also "potential" enemies who are coming from behind you, lurking in stealth, flying high above you, or even just charging at you in plain sight. Even an "OP' class or a class with "OP aspects" will not last long if they are getting affected negatively by one or more of the four points listed above. Things like an HF from a BM falling from the sky, a Veno purge/bewitch from behind, a Blood Vow from an archer in stealth, or even a cleric dropping an SoG on you from the side (off your screen) can radically change a situation. Even more dramatic is if your attackers happen to be coordinated well enough (Assist Attack, Vent/ Raidcall/Skype comms, etc).

    Take for example: The LA classes - yes, they have crazy crit rates post-rebirth, archers have purge, etc, and sins have zerk crits, tidal, focused mind, and the like. What works in 1v1 does not necessarily work in mass PvP - *many* high-geared LA players I know complain about their class being relatively squishy compared to AAs or HAs for instance - in 1v1, they may be able to counter this with their class's skills or through some technique or another - but if they ever get caught by a second strong attacker/debuffer, or even a third or fourth one? This becomes a big problem for them - and typically they will drop like any other class. Yes, I am aware that there are special, individual cases of certain players with these "OP" classes being equally difficult to deal with in mass PvP as in 1v1, but those are relatively few and far in between - and they generally have similar counterparts among the "non-OP classes". In additon, with mass PvP also comes the possibility of support - a sin can try to stunlock someone all they want for example, but if there's a cleric somewhere that purifies the sin's target? The sin is now at a disadvantage - they have to deal with the cleric as well, but now there the original attacker who is fighting them as well. My point here is that in a mass PvP environment, it suddenly goes from two people trying to DD each other to death to either multiple people DDing each other, or even the addition of support roles (healers, debuffers, meatshields, etc) - the very nature of fighting has changed.

    And before we get hung up over sins - consider another example: Quid Pro Quo of a seeker. I am not going to argue over whether or not seekers are OP...this is an example. QPQ we know transfers up to 10 debuffs (correct me if I am wrong) to a single enemy. Most classes I know of are not able to put out 10 debuffs on a seeker in 1v1, simply because no class in the game typically has that many PvP debuffs at their disposal at any given time. Now...in a mass PvP environment, 10 debuffs on the said seeker is easily possible. So...if the seeker gets mass debuffed, and we assume he/she survives long enough to QPQ it on someone else? That enemy (it really doesn't matter how well geared or skilled this poor soul happens to be) is suddenly wide open for a very quick death unless even quicker countermeasures are taken.

    A third example: AoEs - in a 1v1, it doesn't matter very much if the attack skill your opponent uses on you is an AoE or not - either way it hits you or it doesn't. In mass PvP - this is a different story - an AoE can potentially hit 5, 10, 15, 20 people if they happened to be so clustered together. This means that a class with many, strong and/or fast AoEs have a significant edge over say, classes that have less, weaker, and/or slower ones when dealing with a large crowd. Similarly, the attack range of a class can also be seen in a similar fashion - a melee class has potentially more issues dealing with multiple enemies spread far apart from each other than a ranged class. Differences between Sage and Demon versions each class further add to the variations to think about.

    The point I am trying to make here is that basically a class that is "extremely" strong in a 1v1 environment may not be so in a group PvP scenario, or some other form of PvP. To describe the 'strength' of a given class in just 1v1 PK is almost as limited in describing the strengths of a class only in terms of non-PK duels. Either way, the entire picture isn't depicted in full.

    There are potentially thousands of other examples in mass PvP to compare with that of 1v1 PvP (we could even go into detail for just about every individual support/attack skill for every class one at a time to be honest in 1v1 vs mass pk to be honest), and so in short, the overall picture basically becomes so big and complex (especially when you consider the original four points i made) that we really can't just paint the lion's shares of our deaths and defeats on any single OP aspect of a given class.

    And even then (if its not bad enough!), there's more to that. For example, in Nation Wars' Flag battles, the flagger has more hp, lower normal movement speed and is unable to use genies as long as the flag is being held. In Bridge battles, the towers dump all sorts of various debuffs (again, think of seekers' QPQ) on every opponent; in Crystal maps, players can potentially expose themselves to enemies while mining crystals; in TW, towers cause extra problems for enemies. All of these change the nature of combat. Not to mention that when these battles' time limits start to become apparent, strategies change further, people become desperate, etc. In Theater of Blood? Destroyer sword gets factored into the picture.

    See where I am getting at? In essence, we have to consider the possibility that PWI didn't make PvP with just 1v1s or 2v2s in mind, but for PvP in *general*. This means integrating EVERY SINGLE type of PvP in the game - 1v1, 2v2, 10v10, 20v20, 75v75, "fair" PvP fights, "special" conditions, differences in gear, skill, playstyle, human elements. The picture isn't black-and white- it's not even in grayscale - discussing about the OP/broken aspects of certain classes in 1v1 PvP while touching upon nothing else is like having all the colors in the world printed on a large sheet of paper, picking two colors on it to describe the rest of the entire sheet of paper in terms of those two colors, while ignoring the existence of all the other colors on that same sheet of paper.

    For the TLDRs: There's much more to PvP than a few possibly "broken' elements in a couple of classes.
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    exeys wrote: »
    See where I am getting at? In essence, we have to consider the possibility that PWI didn't make PvP with just 1v1s or 2v2s in mind, but for PvP in *general*. This means integrating EVERY SINGLE type of PvP in the game - 1v1, 2v2, 10v10, 20v20, 75v75, "fair" PvP fights, "special" conditions, differences in gear, skill, playstyle, human elements. The picture isn't black-and white- it's not even in grayscale - discussing about the OP/broken aspects of certain classes in 1v1 PvP while touching upon nothing else is like having all the colors in the world printed on a large sheet of paper, picking two colors on it to describe the rest of the entire sheet of paper in terms of those two colors, while ignoring the existence of all the other colors on that same sheet of paper.
    For the TLDRs: There's much more to PvP than a few possibly "broken' elements in a couple of classes.
    i see and agree with all of what you have said. i have considered these things as well and my concern is out of two reasons.

    1: as is everyone has a sin. it's arguably the best class in the game. with the current defense buffs and skills added, one of the weakness sins had were basically shrunk. if an already OP class was made even more op, what so you think happens? everyone wants to make one now. which i guess is ok but you see in archo already. call for a squad a billion sins answers and 1 or two of something else.

    2: as i already have one foot onut the door on this game my concern lessens each day for the second reason. but as it is a valid point i will state it here. the balance system pwi ad in mind was told to us, a->b->c. so we know what pwi was thinking [unless they are lying which i would not be surprised]. how it is now only barbs have a set clear advantage [and seekers if play expertly], bms? heck no.

    idm not being able to beat an equally skilled equally geared player if he or she is on a sin. according to the chart i am supposd to be at a disadvantage. but if i already was and you give me garbage skills [barring two] for an update and give my nemesis uber boosts, then how am i supposed to even try?
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    check out the veterans question thread, some other views are on there as well.
  • SeaGinger - Archosaur
    SeaGinger - Archosaur Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »
    you gonna disagree with that thread too?finally we are on the same server. if you are so sure i dunno how to play, come find me anmd test me. i'll gear down so gear is not a factor. cause unless you do you won't know, and your endless prattle will not have any merit.

    i have disagreed with that thread already. i made a post a while back, i think before my last post on this one.

    if you wanna 1v1 i have no issues with that, just pm me (dont wc, i rarely take a look at it). Its gonna be a pointless fight though, as it wont change your opinions, nor mine. i win, youll just say its because sins are overpowered. i lose, youll still say sins are overpowered.
  • HideYoHubby - Archosaur
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

    1: as is everyone has a sin. it's arguably the best class in the game. with the current defense buffs and skills added, one of the weakness sins had were basically shrunk. if an already OP class was made even more op, what so you think happens? everyone wants to make one now. which i guess is ok but you see in archo already. call for a squad a billion sins answers and 1 or two of something else.

    That though doesnt have much to do with the reasons you bring out. Reason there is sins is because people use them for farming. That likely wouldnt occur to you, no offense, if I could CS like you do I would and there is nothing wrong with it. It simply has made you blind to true reason for the amount of sins. Back in the days of Vana sin didnt need that high refines on armors, it was pretty cheap to make profitable farming toon so everybody and their moms rolled one. Now with only really TT out there we`re down to bout dozen who still make major income from sin. I should say compared to other classes, lot of things that are farmed these days, most classes are just as good at it as sins.
    __Sami__ - Archer - 105/103/102 - mypers.pw/1.8/#132088 - Active
    HideYoHubby - Assassin - 105/101/101 - Inactive
    WnbTank - Barbarian - 103/101/101 - Catshop
  • Chuck_smith - Sanctuary
    Chuck_smith - Sanctuary Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I know the game is badly run but why complain about "LA classes" when Arcane casters such as an R9RR rebirth/card/etc AA cleric one shooting people with great cyclone non-zerk crit (just imagine if they can do that)?

    Pure magic is way more broken than pure DEX as they get crit as well (maybe not zerk, but still does too much damage in a single shot anyway).
    Sage barb in progress.

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