PWI not supporting 'normal' players

OFate - Heavens Tear

I'm able to create a new toon and venture into a new area. In this area, I can get a pet cage, a cute pet, mount and also earn permanent wings if I want to grind out the 9999 items.

When I move into Perfect World area, I can go to the Quest Master and the Lucid (forgot their name, sorry) and quickly get to level 23-24.

I get an item to take to an NPC to get more experience, a cute mount, aviation, and as I level, I get more goodies.

At 30 I can do dailys to gain items to meditate when I'm away from keyboard to gain more experience. Later I get a cute fashion set and much later some orbs.

I can enter FB's to get possible nicer gear froms from bosses, and currently, I can use the PWI-botter to grind for exp and DQ, which I can trade out for perfect stones and other items.

At 95 I can enter a new zone to quest out some fairly decent armor and a weapon.

etc.. etc..

I was one of the founding players of Perfect World, and I can tell you - when it takes a year on the average to not only hit 100 but farm all of your gear -- what we have now... is amazing.

We had no Phoenix, no Hercules, no hypers, packs, tokens, and FF/FC was completely different.

There also was no PvE servers so everything was PvP and you farmed ... everything in groups.

Items were hard earned... especially molders.

So being I"ve seen the game evolve - from beginning at PW-MY and then beginning when PWI came out - I can honestly say.. the changes are refreshing and I think they are just beginning.

I'm curious why the pause in sales, but my guess is the update to another rival's game on the 26th is spurring this.

I also love the rebirth, and you know - it gives you a renewed appreciation for the game to come up from 1 again.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Thedarkrealm - Lost City wrote: »

I've been saying this for the last few years, I've been wanting to come back but when some random can hit 105 in a week with better shards and gear than should be legal it really makes anything I have really undesired for groups... At this point I'd almost wish they'd open a server for players that don't spend tons of cash and let us port our chars over to it just so I/we could get a fairplay experience like this game used to have.

Unfortunately that would require stripping out and/or rebalancing a lot of content over the last few years, and it would have to be run much differently than the current servers. PWE would not do that. Pretty much the only way that will ever happen is in pserver form, but then you'd get into arguments over what constitutes a "non cash shopper server" and whether to disable/tweak/reblance X, Y and Z. At present, no such pserver exists anyway (at least, with anything approaching a stable population).

OFate - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I was one of the founding players of Perfect World, and I can tell you - when it takes a year on the average to not only hit 100 but farm all of your gear -- what we have now... is amazing.

We had no Phoenix, no Hercules, no hypers, packs, tokens, and FF/FC was completely different.

There also was no PvE servers so everything was PvP and you farmed ... everything in groups.

Items were hard earned... especially molders.

So being I"ve seen the game evolve - from beginning at PW-MY and then beginning when PWI came out - I can honestly say.. the changes are refreshing and I think they are just beginning.

I'm curious why the pause in sales, but my guess is the update to another rival's game on the 26th is spurring this.

I also love the rebirth, and you know - it gives you a renewed appreciation for the game to come up from 1 again.

That would be much more easy to agree with if they had properly restricted Frost, so that rebirth meant anything aside from maybe a week's inconvenience.

Hell, I remember my first mold. I got a Sinister Shooter, crafted it myself. It was awesome. I regret selling it. But nostalgia aside... the problem isn't that the new gears exist, it's that several key lowgame molds are not obtainable anymore. There's no reason to remove gear unless that gear presents a provable threat to game balance.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Thedarkrealm - Lost City wrote: »

105 in a week

I stopped there. Nobody in this game can hit 105 in a week without goonz, which were nerfed so hard into the ground, they are 6 ft under.

Beleni - Dreamweaver

The game is not hard work, in fact
with each update it becomes easier and easier to progress and catch your character up,
The Rebirth system has also helped out the lower / new players - since low level areas are now in use.

IMO the next thing that would or could be made easier to obtain is Cube of fate Necklaces. there will be an instance or something that cranks out 5 Cogs per day.

WilliamTell - Raging Tide

matsdeviant wrote: »

Rebirth is a wonderful thing...for elite OP R9's with +12 gear and nowhere else to go....

However in their 'infinite wisdom" PWI has taken this opportunity to completely ignore the lower level players who used to spend hours farming caves for molds and dq drops, or hunting mini-bosses or whatever. It was not bad enough that PWI 'events' such as "Assault on Archesaur" and "Celestial Tigers" have become high level "rpk arenas", they have decided to cater almost exclusively (with this last expansion) to those elite few high levels that complain there's nowhere to go from here...

What about the rest of us PWI?

Skillbook drops in Eden and Brimstone have all but disappeared, mob-dropped molds are rare, and if you wine the cave (which most 'normals' do...) you get NOTHING!

Some skillbooks don't even exist for low level players (try finding lvl11 Aqua Blast for a psychic...)

That's just for starters...I know tons of your 'normals' have dozens of other examples where PWI is catering to others and ignoring you...

I 'get' that this is a 'player driven' game, and higher levels oft times are the ones pumping cash into the game, but come on PWI! You HAVE to keep the rest of us interested or we will never achieve those levels necessary to cause us to want to spend our money playing a 'free to play' game! If we don't feel we will ever be able to compete with those you have given this unfair advantage to, we may just all stop playing, then who will BUY the stuff the high levels are selling?

..and WHO IN HELL SAYS THIS IS A GAME?!? This is hard work! Please stop making our jobs harder than they already are PWI!

You have a point. This is what we like to call the response to content locusts. They eat up everything designed in the game and then yell 'more, more!'. They powerlevel to 100 and then when they need to go get card materials... where the heck is fb 29? 39? 59? Linus the whatful?! Who?? Where??

It's now easier for people who are already level 100+ to get much more powerful, while people who start at level 1, un-'rebirthed', don't have it that easy. Granted, the JoJ puts out some decent coin, but dq drops are ****. I remember when you had to fight to get kills in the level 20-30 culti mobs areas. Now, you'll be lucky to find one other player to squad with, and you can't deny that. Yes, they're catering to veteran players and powerleveled players. Does this signal the end of an era for this game? Will it slowly lose players as old veterans lose interest and move on, with no major influx of new players? It would be sad if PWE's flagship game died, and that would be a negative aspect for PWE economically as well as regards their reputation in the game development community, so I really hope the design team they just hired back breathes some new life into this game.

Brillance - Raging Tide

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I've been soloing these BH bosses everyday since i rebirth my second time and the armor always drops, weps sometimes. Normally 2-3 peices per boss. Could be just bad luck. *shrugs*

I havent rebirthed a first time yet. It could be just bad luck for sure, but Im in there with 2 or 3 other toons each time so far, so its not just mine alone.

b:chuckle

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

I havent rebirthed a first time yet. It could be just bad luck for sure, but Im in there with 2 or 3 other toons each time so far, so its not just mine alone.

b:chuckle

What's the level of the boss?

What's the level of the highest member of the squad?

Coins have been removed from drops (both mobs and bosses) for all FBs below the 89s. Refer to this chart to see how hard drops are nerfed by having high levels in squad.

MageMERC - Harshlands

OFate - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm able to create a new toon and venture into a new area. In this area, I can get a pet cage, a cute pet, mount and also earn permanent wings if I want to grind out the 9999 items.

When I move into Perfect World area, I can go to the Quest Master and the Lucid (forgot their name, sorry) and quickly get to level 23-24.

I get an item to take to an NPC to get more experience, a cute mount, aviation, and as I level, I get more goodies.

At 30 I can do dailys to gain items to meditate when I'm away from keyboard to gain more experience. Later I get a cute fashion set and much later some orbs.

I can enter FB's to get possible nicer gear froms from bosses, and currently, I can use the PWI-botter to grind for exp and DQ, which I can trade out for perfect stones and other items.

At 95 I can enter a new zone to quest out some fairly decent armor and a weapon.

etc.. etc..

I was one of the founding players of Perfect World, and I can tell you - when it takes a year on the average to not only hit 100 but farm all of your gear -- what we have now... is amazing.

We had no Phoenix, no Hercules, no hypers, packs, tokens, and FF/FC was completely different.

There also was no PvE servers so everything was PvP and you farmed ... everything in groups.

Items were hard earned... especially molders.

So being I"ve seen the game evolve - from beginning at PW-MY and then beginning when PWI came out - I can honestly say.. the changes are refreshing and I think they are just beginning.

I'm curious why the pause in sales, but my guess is the update to another rival's game on the 26th is spurring this.

I also love the rebirth, and you know - it gives you a renewed appreciation for the game to come up from 1 again.

I kind of agree with this. Having taken a year off I've come back now and for starting players soooo much is given to us. One thing you forgot to mention above is the free charms up to level 60 - holy **** that makes a difference too.

Having said that, up to a point us "normal" players have it easy but the gulf between f2p and some OP players is so wide now as to be unfathomable. I look at some people linking their ascended gears or the NW tomb and I think to myself that I have 4 100+ toons and all their gears put together wouldn't be worth that one tomb or one ascended cape. I run a BH79 on my 99 archer and people around me are doing 30 times more damage than me per hit.

And flipping back again - as said before, its people that pay that allow the f2p to keep playing. As a casual player I don't believe I deserve what hard core farmers, merchants and cs'ers put into the game - they do more, so they should receive more.

I just try and enjoy my place in the system where I can. I recently came back from playing a 2nd version of a guild related game involving wars (hint hint) and the fact that everyone is nearly equally geared at the end, with no effort whatsoever, actually takes away from the game in a big way. Developing the perfect balance in this regard is impossible but at max level on that game - and I have a bunch of chars at max level, there doesn't seem to be any goals to aspire too.

Kinjeto - Raging Tide

matsdeviant wrote: »

Rebirth is a wonderful thing...for elite OP R9's with +12 gear and nowhere else to go....

However in their 'infinite wisdom" PWI has taken this opportunity to completely ignore the lower level players who used to spend hours farming caves for molds and dq drops, or hunting mini-bosses or whatever. It was not bad enough that PWI 'events' such as "Assault on Archesaur" and "Celestial Tigers" have become high level "rpk arenas", they have decided to cater almost exclusively (with this last expansion) to those elite few high levels that complain there's nowhere to go from here...

What about the rest of us PWI?

Skillbook drops in Eden and Brimstone have all but disappeared, mob-dropped molds are rare, and if you wine the cave (which most 'normals' do...) you get NOTHING!

Some skillbooks don't even exist for low level players (try finding lvl11 Aqua Blast for a psychic...)

That's just for starters...I know tons of your 'normals' have dozens of other examples where PWI is catering to others and ignoring you...

I 'get' that this is a 'player driven' game, and higher levels oft times are the ones pumping cash into the game, but come on PWI! You HAVE to keep the rest of us interested or we will never achieve those levels necessary to cause us to want to spend our money playing a 'free to play' game! If we don't feel we will ever be able to compete with those you have given this unfair advantage to, we may just all stop playing, then who will BUY the stuff the high levels are selling?

..and WHO IN HELL SAYS THIS IS A GAME?!? This is hard work! Please stop making our jobs harder than they already are PWI!

Hey that sounds like you're being content gated. Wow. That is a nasty practice of games. Where they want you to start paying for health and mana per shot and not paying for bank space and character slots and cosmetic items or colour palettes that may change how you look.

Better yet they middle-charge for items like dyes and have a certain amount to change the colour of an item versus just having "ONE DYE" to actually change the color of an item. That sounds like a very nasty business practice over just having time sinks/colour palettes/having the colors that you could earn over time. b:laugh

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What's the level of the boss?

What's the level of the highest member of the squad?

Coins have been removed from drops (both mobs and bosses) for all FBs below the 89s. Refer to this chart to see how hard drops are nerfed by having high levels in squad.

Hey that sounds like broken gameplay mechanics.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

I would say looking back over the past 3 years, most of the people that either got-t-f-o or still try to play on some level - do NOT have the time to dedicate to that. I tried on Brill, and it was as DD says, WORK. I am someone's wife in real life, and I work full time (i.e. I pretty much WORK all the time, lol). I dont play games for my ability to experience a work-ethic building situation. *shrugs*

Even a kid on break for 3 months in the Summertime is probably NOT going to want to spend all his time in a game having no fun, especially since more and more we all seem to suffer from some form or varying degrees of ADD. *is wondering if ADD is a polite and scientific term for selfishness* b:chuckle

A lot of people enjoy Merchanting. Its truely fun for them. In other games Ive seen them spend endless hours day in and day out literally hawking and bargaining. Some real life cultures are geared for that, so they enjoy doing it. Merchanting however is not fun for everyone.

There is no way Im leaving my PC on and unattended for 8 - 10 hours each day to try to keep a catshop online. Same for reflecting for EXP. Although leveling is fun, Im reaching a level where my position would have to be tank in a squad for the content I still need to do, and that just is not right for an AA full magic noob Mystic. b:chuckle

Yeah why should you leave your computer on when your logged in time is the valuable time or where ever you leave your character logged in. I think the most important part is that you're playing the game that is the most valuable part of the gamer's attention span in actually playing the game.

You're right people have less time these days to actually game and it is more the interactive experience between people that matters.

eraldus

Whenever I see somebody supporting the current state of the game (OP gears easily attainable with $$$, packs, hypers, fcc open all day, etc...), and happy that you get tossed a few free stuff at you, I can't help, but think on a dog besides his owner's table, eagerly waiting for his owner to give him a few scraps of food, waggling it's tail...

TT? People hardly form squads for it anymore... All you see is people paying for others to open squad mode so that they can solo it.

Alpha, Beta and Gamma? I don't think 70% of the current playerbase is ever aware they exist... might as well just remove it.

And there is a lot of other issues with this game right now, but I don't feel like writting wall of text about it just to state the obvious.

Sorry but, as much as like this game, my sig says it all. b:surrender

Evryn - Morai

Solutions to problems below:

eraldus wrote: »

Whenever I see somebody supporting the current state of the game (OP gears easily attainable with $$$, packs, hypers, fcc open all day, etc...), and happy that you get tossed a few free stuff at you, I can't help, but think on a dog besides his owner's table, eagerly waiting for his owner to give him a few scraps of food, waggling it's tail...

FCC: Make it like PV. Once per day. A few -mobs- with an automatic aggro reset/random aggro would also prevent the idiotic full pulls people try. The odd stunner in there will put a stop to it too.

TT? People hardly form squads for it anymore... All you see is people paying for others to open squad mode so that they can solo it.

Simple solution: No squad present when a boss is downed? No drops.

Alpha, Beta and Gamma? I don't think 70% of the current playerbase is ever aware they exist... might as well just remove it.

I'm aware of their existance. They require six players in the same level range. Good luck finding them. Suggestion: Put that kind of quest under the quest party finder...

eraldus

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

Solutions to problems below:


FCC: Make it like PV. Once per day. A few -mobs- with an automatic aggro reset/random aggro would also prevent the idiotic full pulls people try. The odd stunner in there will put a stop to it too. I also thought on this idea a few daysa go, could work maybe.


Simple solution: No squad present when a boss is downed? No drops. If they can code it like that, then yeah.


I'm aware of their existance. They require six players in the same level range. Good luck finding them. Suggestion: Put that kind of quest under the quest party finder... Well YOU are aware of it... plus that is my point... those instaces are dead because people are lvling too fast and doesn't have a reason to do them anymore, which makes them pointless.

Roses are red.

Violets are blue.

The answers for your post are written in happy red.

Just saying so that you don't end up feeling blue.

ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

Simple solution: No squad present when a boss is downed? No drops.

Then the 3 alts that are loaded to open the instance stay in the lobby for the entire run, instead of being kicked.

Selak - Dreamweaver

ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Then the 3 alts that are loaded to open the instance stay in the lobby for the entire run, instead of being kicked.

Easy solution:
All squad members must be alive and within X meters of boss when it dies and Boss must be within X meters of its spawn point.
Keeping everyone alive means all will have to work harder to fulfil requirements.
This is a game and we need to lose sometimes otherwise boredom sets in real quick.

Xainou - Sanctuary

Selak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Easy solution:
All squad members must be alive and within X meters of boss when it dies and Boss must be within X meters of its spawn point.

Hell no. Not with the massively undegeared noobs there are nowadays. Even worse, people that go afk...

Selak - Dreamweaver

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hell no. Not with the massively undegeared noobs there are nowadays. Even worse, people that go afk...

And this is the reason the game play is so crazy at the moment because people insist that massively under geared noobs should have the same rights, as some one who has earned the right to be there, by playing/working to becoming the slightly under geared noob before trying something new.

As to AFKers I could understand for the emergency AFK but stuff the AFK Leeches.

Seems all I see lately is the entitlement class moaning again, because of a lack of instant gratification.

As to failure, it should be a lesson in what not to do next time, that is how we normally learn to be better at what we do.

ovenusarmanio

Most instances should be completed by whatever the average gear is, just because you have better than average doesn't mean that they should have a ton content for only small subsets of their playerbase. That said, there should be some high end content as well. Like maybe they could have different tiers of it, ala TT. Something where it would be worth striving to get higher gears. For example I don't tihnk the SOT weekly as a concept was wrong but they should've made it a bit harder and it's own thing. They could've stuck it in morai in a new instance for example rather than something everyone should have access to, like a BH/FB instance. Considering BH's entire purpose was to get the high interacting with the low.

SonofAnarchy - Dreamweaver

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

For example I don't tihnk the SOT weekly as a concept was wrong but they should've made it a bit harder and it's own thing.

Really? I think its plenty hard as is, i tend to steer clear of it as its usually a pain in the butt to finish

Miugre - Heavens Tear

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Most instances should be completed by whatever the average gear is, just because you have better than average doesn't mean that they should have a ton content for only small subsets of their playerbase. That said, there should be some high end content as well. Like maybe they could have different tiers of it, ala TT. Something where it would be worth striving to get higher gears. For example I don't tihnk the SOT weekly as a concept was wrong but they should've made it a bit harder and it's own thing. They could've stuck it in morai in a new instance for example rather than something everyone should have access to, like a BH/FB instance. Considering BH's entire purpose was to get the high interacting with the low.

I have to disagree with this. Sectioning off entire instances or parts of instances to a specific tier of gear just reinforces the notion that anything below that tier is useless. I do understand why you'd want to make different difficulties to challenge each tier, but you can do that without offering them unfair advantages. For example, you could have the different difficulty levels, but give the same rewards to each. But I think when given the choice, these folks would just do the lowest difficulty level because it's the quickest path to the rewards.

Let's be honest: people who got R9S3 did not do it for PVE reasons. They did it for PVP reasons, and they can't expect the PVE to change to fit them. So the whole "challenge" argument rings a little hollow.

ovenusarmanio

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have to disagree with this. Sectioning off entire instances or parts of instances to a specific tier of gear just reinforces the notion that anything below that tier is useless. I do understand why you'd want to make different difficulties to challenge each tier, but you can do that without offering them unfair advantages. For example, you could have the different difficulty levels, but give the same rewards to each. But I think when given the choice, these folks would just do the lowest difficulty level because it's the quickest path to the rewards.

Let's be honest: people who got R9S3 did not do it for PVE reasons. They did it for PVP reasons, and they can't expect the PVE to change to fit them. So the whole "challenge" argument rings a little hollow.

The mindset that anything below R999 is "worthless" to people in that tier of gear will not change so long as that gear dominates PVP. That doesn't stop people from getting g16 nirvana gear though. Something that is challenging and rewarding for people with g16 nirvana gear +7 (very obtainable) as the barest minimum, would add in some more rewarding content for farming up gear. There really isn't much incentive in this game beyond pvp to get better gear. And why should it be the same reward, who is going to work twice as hard for the same prize? That doesn't provide any real incentive. Again though, the rewards should be something totally optionable. Look at the SOT weekly, you can get incomparable shards. Hardly a game changer, but a nice boost for those willing and able to go through with it. Those who aren't can still farm Morai for exclusives. That's type of thing really ought to be in the game more. Some other things they could be allowed? Materials for crafting platinum charms. People who do TW go through a heck of a lot of them, and people in nation wars could benefit from them as well. People who don't have that gear but still want charms? Can buy them from the boutique. Or stick with the charms from the event boutique. I firmly believe that whatever replaces the DQ rewards should be easily farmable by anyone still as a way to get event gold, just FYI.

And I really do think there needs to be a new farming instance.

SonofAnarchy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Really? I think its plenty hard as is, i tend to steer clear of it as its usually a pain in the butt to finish

I was thinking more along the lines of making the path to the boss harder, but then giving better rewards. And again, removing that challenge from FB so that people can have an easier time getting their FB99 done. They shouldn't be upgrading low-end content. BH was always supposed to be a way to get different groups of people interacting with another and to give people more incentive to help with FBs. That shouldn't' be ignored and have BH turn into something purely for those who already are established. That's just really lame and makes things new player unfriendly. The stuff new alts and genuinely new people are going to be using and are required to use, should remain at a difficulty that is easily accomplished in gear that any old 100 can get regardless if they are casual or hardcore.

Desdi - Sanctuary

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

And I really do think there needs to be a new farming instance.

We need another instance like Flowsilver. It doesn't take too long (unless the squad is bad) but it's not too short either. It's fun and has more interactive gameplay. The instance however shouldn't be limited to just once a day but to something people can farm repeatedly. Sure people will get bored/tired of it eventually but we haven't had a farm-able instance of that sort for a very long time... TT materials hardly sell, Lunar materials are almost worthless, Warsong..once you're done farming your gear there's no point in doing it (manufacturing service doesn't sell like it used to).

Since there are no signs of new gear they could very well add something like materials to make other things we need. Revamping Nirvana to drop shards and farm them through it was a good idea. I supported the idea under the condition the farm-able shards went up to Gems. Citrine Gems/Garnet Gems etc. aren't "true endgame" shards but they still give a pretty nice boost without being a game breaker. I would certainly be interested in farming them. People that want endgame shards (JOSD, Deity and to a lesser extent Vit Stones) will still have to open packs.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

i wouldnt mind a different sort of TT dungeon thats for higher lvs and diff. path = diff drops (uncanny/flowsilver/etc)

Brillance - Raging Tide

You just got a new farming instance, didnt you?

Isnt part of the Power Creep problem the fact that new content is released too fast?

Is it just me or do most game developers come off like 'extremeists'? Everything is extremely slow, or if changed up, seems to completely shift to the other end of the spectrum - or the other extreme.

I would have complained that this thread has also made such an extreme change, but I guess that depends on your perspective. If no one cares about the game's potential masses of 'cannon fodder' or about the game attracting new players, I guess the few OP-geared ARE the 'normal' players, AND they need a new farming instance. *shrugs*

Desdi - Sanctuary

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

You just got a new farming instance, didnt you?

Can't really call it farming instance when you can only do it once a day, it's more of a daily. There's no other instance worth farming over and over. It's been ages since we had one.

Brillance - Raging Tide

Good point, I guess, 'normal' player. b:chuckle

Miugre - Heavens Tear

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

The mindset that anything below R999 is "worthless" to people in that tier of gear will not change so long as that gear dominates PVP. That doesn't stop people from getting g16 nirvana gear though. Something that is challenging and rewarding for people with g16 nirvana gear +7 (very obtainable) as the barest minimum, would add in some more rewarding content for farming up gear. There really isn't much incentive in this game beyond pvp to get better gear.

This is really just basic MMO design. Seeing as MMOs don't have an "ending," just an endgame, there's inevitably going to be an upper limit on what's available to be done with any character. This is why most people make alts, after all. You can't just keep pouring in new content that takes months to create every time people get bored. You have to take care of the content you already have. The mistake wanmei made is to create gear that was capable of making the original endgame boring in the first place, and no amount of new content will fix that.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

And why should it be the same reward, who is going to work twice as hard for the same prize? That doesn't provide any real incentive. Again though, the rewards should be something totally optionable. Look at the SOT weekly, you can get incomparable shards. Hardly a game changer, but a nice boost for those willing and able to go through with it. Those who aren't can still farm Morai for exclusives. That's type of thing really ought to be in the game more.

Aba and SoT weekly can be run by all kinds of different gear. You know that even my best geared characters on HT are nirv s2 +5, by choice (with the sole exception of my barb's s3 weapon), and they could do it in lesser gear if I wanted them to. That's totally different from, say, a new TT instance built only for R9S3s to complete. It's an issue of accessibility.

Why should they work harder for the same reward? They wouldn't. They'd have the option of taking the easy route for the reward, too. Why make two versions in the first place, then? I don't know... why did they ask for more challenge in the first place? If it's that important to them, then the challenge would be its own reward.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Some other things they could be allowed? Materials for crafting platinum charms. People who do TW go through a heck of a lot of them, and people in nation wars could benefit from them as well. People who don't have that gear but still want charms? Can buy them from the boutique. Or stick with the charms from the event boutique. I firmly believe that whatever replaces the DQ rewards should be easily farmable by anyone still as a way to get event gold, just FYI.

I will totally agree with this. It will never cease to amaze me that they load you down with free charms up until lv60, and then let you get to endgame and starve you of the very crutch they caused you to have. I've always thought they should just give out some 2-hour timed platinum charms as soon as you enter NW, actually. The CS charms will still make tons of money as long as TW is around.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I was thinking more along the lines of making the path to the boss harder, but then giving better rewards. And again, removing that challenge from FB so that people can have an easier time getting their FB99 done. They shouldn't be upgrading low-end content. BH was always supposed to be a way to get different groups of people interacting with another and to give people more incentive to help with FBs. That shouldn't' be ignored and have BH turn into something purely for those who already are established. That's just really lame and makes things new player unfriendly. The stuff new alts and genuinely new people are going to be using and are required to use, should remain at a difficulty that is easily accomplished in gear that any old 100 can get regardless if they are casual or hardcore.

This should be true of all endgame content, and up until WS's revamp, it was. There should never be an instance, or even part of one, where a certain caliber of gear is required. As long as your gear is level-appropriate, I mean (don't go into endgame instances in TT70 stuff, but if you have, say, endgame mold armors you should be fine). Gear is supposed to be a supplement to your skill in playing your character, not a limiting factor in what you can do with it.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why should they work harder for the same reward? They wouldn't. They'd have the option of taking the easy route for the reward, too. Why make two versions in the first place, then? I don't know... why did they ask for more challenge in the first place? If it's that important to them, then the challenge would be its own reward.

this would require some serious code change and is beyond wishful thinking but, if such a thing was possible, it'd be nice if all the gear had a LV/grade, something specific to instance related. And the average of that LV combined with squad made, would determine the difficulty of dungeon mobs/boss/drop rate. Of course with some moderate restrictions and loophole tweeking so to avoid cheat swap-outs

hadesgabriel

Sadly the reborn was a small challenge for the ''veterans,, or elites all are back to the original level and dont give a damn about the normal non reborn players now + its P2W so for a F2P user will not have a long life and enjoyment

ovenusarmanio

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is really just basic MMO design. Seeing as MMOs don't have an "ending," just an endgame, there's inevitably going to be an upper limit on what's available to be done with any character. This is why most people make alts, after all. You can't just keep pouring in new content that takes months to create every time people get bored. You have to take care of the content you already have. The mistake wanmei made is to create gear that was capable of making the original endgame boring in the first place, and no amount of new content will fix that.

You can do both, and many successful games out there add new expansions and find ways to keep older stuff relevant. There is no reason this game has to stagnate with new content in order to fix the old content. Desdi gave a great example. A person using exclusives versus a person wearing gems? The person with the gem has the obvious advantage, but not so much so that the person with the exclusives can't kill the person with gems. But it's still enough of an advantage to be worth farming. Being able to farm charms is another example. Those are both readily available items that would offer obvious benefits to being made cheaper, offers an opportunity to add in fun, new, challenging content and does not break what is already available in-game.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Aba and SoT weekly can be run by all kinds of different gear. You know that even my best geared characters on HT are nirv s2 +5, by choice (with the sole exception of my barb's s3 weapon), and they could do it in lesser gear if I wanted them to. That's totally different from, say, a new TT instance built only for R9S3s to complete. It's an issue of accessibility.

Why should they work harder for the same reward? They wouldn't. They'd have the option of taking the easy route for the reward, too. Why make two versions in the first place, then? I don't know... why did they ask for more challenge in the first place? If it's that important to them, then the challenge would be its own reward.

I said that g16+7 could be the base, not that R9S3 should be the only one who can farm it. But what reason is there to get better gear if you don't PVP? And people want to feel like they are being rewarded for their extra effort, not punished. Why would the average person purposefully want to devalue their own efforts? Why would you want to pay more money and spend more time for the same item? It doesn't need to be more rewarding to a stupid degree but there should be a little extra reward for the effort. Enough to make it exciting to do.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This should be true of all endgame content, and up until WS's revamp, it was. There should never be an instance, or even part of one, where a certain caliber of gear is required. As long as your gear is level-appropriate, I mean (don't go into endgame instances in TT70 stuff, but if you have, say, endgame mold armors you should be fine). Gear is supposed to be a supplement to your skill in playing your character, not a limiting factor in what you can do with it.

I disagree, if I've dedicated more total time to my character than a new person, I want my character's abilities to reflect that. If I'm new, I don't want to hit endgame straight away an have nothing to look forward to, that's boring as all get out. I think that PWI is extremely excessive in it's gear gap. The difference between g16 nirvana gear and R999 gear is just totally ridiculous. And it's a direct hindrance to this game's longevity. But that doesn't meant there shouldn't be any functional difference between someone who just hit level 100 and is wearing mold gear and someone who has played for years wearing g16.

hadesgabriel wrote: »

Sadly the reborn was a small challenge for the ''veterans,, or elites all are back to the original level and dont give a damn about the normal non reborn players now + its P2W so for a F2P user will not have a long life and enjoyment

The war avatar system is absolutely p2w, but choosing to not rebirth when it's so stupidly easy to level back up is your own decision and has nothing to do with being f2p or not. Even if you're in tt80 gear (which if you are, stop wearing tt80 gear) you should at the very least have a easy time getting back to 80+ because tt80 is more than enough to kill all the stuff below it.

Brillance - Raging Tide

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

The war avatar system is absolutely p2w, but choosing to not rebirth when it's so stupidly easy to level back up is your own decision and has nothing to do with being f2p or not. Even if you're in tt80 gear (which if you are, stop wearing tt80 gear) you should at the very least have a easy time getting back to 80+ because tt80 is more than enough to kill all the stuff below it.

Well, I can see that from your perspective Venus, but many of us stuck in lesser gears are stuck there for many different reasons.

One reason probably many share is because we are spending our game time working to get better gears. No one who has dedicated their time to slowly grinding acceptable gears is going to want to totally forget that all encompassing goal just to divert their focus and energy to rebirthing. In that sense, they probably arent going to jump to do it.

Let's say I rebirth twice, get 105 101 100, arent I really smack-dab in the exact same place that I was before the expansion when all is said and done? I still have my R8, and fair to middling tome, etc. The only way that is really going to equal any progress for me is if no one else bothered - and, we know its too late for that.

In my case, I made a server change and started a totally new char. I was hoping to find a server more populated during my play time. b:surrender Obviously, the need to rebirth right away was not at the forefront of my gaming mind. That reasoning process has everything to do with being f2p.