How do you feel about this game being pay to win?

Unholly - Morai

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There are many other free non-pay-to-win MMORPG

....

I mean, only one, but i can't spell its name on the forum so you'll have to guess it.

If we are thinking of the same game then there are elements of P2W even in that. By my definition anyway.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think people need to define P2W:

For me it is the gaining of gear/features of the game that will help you play the game better or with more ease. More quickly than someone who does not pay and so reaping the rewards of said gear/feature for the time that non P2W player is working on attaining gear/feature. Just because someone can farm said gear/features does not stop it being P2W.

So by my definition PWI is P2W and all F2P games (that i know of/can think of) are P2W so.... shrugs.... Duno why anyone would be surprised by it, its how they make money and keep the game going. If you join a F2P game and dont expect some sort of grind/work to keep up with older players/CSers then you are going to be sourly disappointed by most F2P games business strategys.

GlenRoss - Archosaur

Carlos is recruiting.

I have no time for recruiters. I'm busy enjoying this game.

maestro121

Unholly - Morai wrote: »

If we are thinking of the same game then there are elements of P2W even in that. By my definition anyway.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think people need to define P2W:

For me it is the gaining of gear/features of the game that will help you play the game better or with more ease. More quickly than someone who does not pay and so reaping the rewards of said gear/feature for the time that non P2W player is working on attaining gear/feature. Just because someone can farm said gear/features does not stop it being P2W.

I think your definition is a bit too broad to really define P2W. For instance to some players, hyperstones in the CS certainly will make playing easier and better (if your goal is to get to end game fast as possible) and the same for other convenience items like that thingie that opens up all the WPs on the map (makes questing easier), etc... yet no one considers those in the CS as equating to P2W.

Also, actual gear sold in the CS that gives you an instant boost in power/damage thus making life easier than what it was before isn't necessarily P2W either so long as that gear isn't the most powerful in the game.

P2W really is mostly a PVP issue and its almost always a case of weapons and/or armor being made directly available in the CS that is more powerful than anything else that can be directly farmed in the game. End result being that CSers always have the biggest advantage in PK while farmers are forever playing catch up. And just when they thought they've finally caught up... boom another higher level set of gear gets released for CSers to jump in front again. Vicious circle that P2W...

WannaBM - Archosaur

It is hard to define Pay to Win vs not pay to win and i do think that basically every free to play game has some P2W aspect in it.

Things like fashion and a collorfull mount would be absolutely not pay to win obviously.

Things like improved user interface as seen for example in travian where you could buy for a bigger map overview and build queues, do make it a bit easier to play the game, but it is easy to compensate for the non paying customer and be competetive even though he cannot get the same thing without money. Its just that these things do not make him any more powerfull. So there is a minimal pay to win factor. The developers aim to get a large amount of players to pay a little bit each. The same i consider true for this famous game where you can choose to play over a 100 toons but need money or a whole lot of patience to unlock them all.

Then comes the PWI like games that have a completely open economy where money and coins are pretty much interchangable. Money can buy everything but so can farming. You simply get an hour (of farming) to dollar ratio. The amount of money needed to make it imbalancing pay to win is rather big and if you'd asked me about this 5-10 years ago i would have never believed many people would be so sick in their mind to pay that kind of money (sorry if you feel insulted, but thats how i see it) Espescially as the game ages and many players have gathered significant wealth, this model focusses mostly on the player willing to spend lots. Because really, what good is CSing 10 or 20$ in PWI ? It is nothing compared to the coin/gold/money going around in this game.

Ultimate pay to win is of course games where the paying customer gets things that are totally unavailable to the non-paying customer. I doubt that still is done very much though.

Nature_God - Sanctuary

''pay to win'' really? You can't possibly ''win'' an online game that has no end.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Unholly - Morai wrote: »

If we are thinking of the same game then there are elements of P2W even in that. By my definition anyway.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think people need to define P2W:

For me it is the gaining of gear/features of the game that will help you play the game better or with more ease. More quickly than someone who does not pay and so reaping the rewards of said gear/feature for the time that non P2W player is working on attaining gear/feature. Just because someone can farm said gear/features does not stop it being P2W.

So by my definition PWI is P2W and all F2P games (that i know of/can think of) are P2W so.... shrugs.... Duno why anyone would be surprised by it, its how they make money and keep the game going. If you join a F2P game and dont expect some sort of grind/work to keep up with older players/CSers then you are going to be sourly disappointed by most F2P games business strategys.

I can think of a game that keeps its paying players, the gear and the skills away from the non paying customers. Sure the paying customers have easier access to places to level up skills, and get gear a bit easier, but all of the better gear is members only, as are the better places to farm for exp/drops. (In that sense it fits it to an extent, but it imho essentially isn't a pay to win... or at least it isn't anywhere near as close as any game who abuses *cough* I mean *cough* uses their boutique/cash shop to sell their customers gear, exp, etc. (really I think its too late for pwi to backtrack and start keeping the gear, etc out of their boutique, I think it would alienate more people than it would gain back... but yea I don't know that for sure. xD)

There is probably worse p2w games out there than pwi, but the one I was talking about... is far and away better about not being p2w. (Don't get me started about the grind for skill levels on that game... pwi so has it beat ten-fold /o\.)

I am so getting quite nostalgic about the game I am talking about. xD lol

EDIT: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win Not hard at all imho. :$

EDIT 2: That definition SO fits pwi to a T. (edit 3) yes we can farm/merch for the gear but that does take FAR longer... ergo you have a LOT of people who claim this game (and reasonably so imho) is of the pay to win variety.

In my opinion if a game does what that game I mentioned above does, and keeps the items etc gained from being a paying customer with their other paying customers, it CAN avoid being called a paid to win game. IJS *hides*

carlos2354

Nature_God - Sanctuary wrote: »

''pay to win'' really? You can't possibly ''win'' an online game that has no end.

R9 is the end where you roflstomp on people and therefore you win unless you're an fcbaby.
Just because the strongest gear is achievable by farming doesn't make this game any less of p2w sheerly bevause of the amount of time it takes. If you've actually played other f2p games, you'd see just how grossly money is involved in this game.

Crazybladema - Harshlands

Nature_God - Sanctuary wrote: »

''pay to win'' really? You can't possibly ''win'' an online game that has no end.

You sir are a troll.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

Nature_God - Sanctuary wrote: »

You can't possibly ''win'' an online game that has no end.

Okay, I'll bite.

>What is Endgame gear and level
>What is Endgame refines and shards


Get R9.3+12 w/ full JoSD/Deity, NW ornaments +12, Emperor Tome, reach 105, complete all the quests that can be completed, complete your meridians, acquire celestial status, Learn all the Sage/Demon/Morai skills acquire all available titles, run through pretty much every instance and event at least once (and when the new update comes, reincarnate twice)

What's left? No more "story", no more new content, nothing new to acquire or achieve till the next set of gear and content comes. Everything else is just "replays" of what you've done before.

Just because the game doesn't say "Thank you for playing, You WIN!!" doesn't mean that you can't reach its limits with nowhere else to go in terms of overall progression.

Just because there's lots of repeatable things to do doesn't mean that you haven't reached "the end". Its similar to turning over a single player game after maxing out and doing everything, but continuing with whatever's left just because its fun (and before you ask - helping others with their own progress is akin helping someone else progress with their "save file")

tl;dr - the term "Endgame" exists for a reason, though there's absolute endgame like the first paragraph of this and "subjective" endgame - which is whatever goals and objectives one sets for themselves to complete.

FlyRanger - Dreamweaver

Me and a couple of my friends have personally spent less than $200 on the game and have already maxed out or nearly maxed out gear.

The difference between us and major cashers is that we know in-game mechanics and how the economy works, and can make money with minimal effort. It's almost as rewarding as swiping a credit card.

Merchanting in game for one year has allowed me to full jade/deity my rank 9 recast archer, and has allowed me to up the gear on some of my other toons as well, while affording charms for TWs/PKs.


I suggest a new player learn the price of most items and then learn a way to make money through merchanting after farming, rather than investing all money straight into gear.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

FlyRanger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Me and a couple of my friends have personally spent less than $200 on the game and have already maxed out or nearly maxed out gear.

The difference between us and major cashers is that we know in-game mechanics and how the economy works, and can make money with minimal effort. It's almost as rewarding as swiping a credit card.

Merchanting in game for one year has allowed me to full jade/deity my rank 9 recast archer, and has allowed me to up the gear on some of my other toons as well, while affording charms for TWs/PKs.


I suggest a new player learn the price of most items and then learn a way to make money through merchanting after farming, rather than investing all money straight into gear.

Lololololololol.

DsHolder. You bought this account from the actual owner who had already r9rr+12 josd it and then quit shortly after NW came out.

People buy accounts all the time, no biggie. I would suggest using a name change scroll and create your own legacy rather than imposing or assuming the originsl owners.

And for the love of god, take up Gtars offer on those archer lessons.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

FlyRanger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Me and a couple of my friends have personally spent less than $200 on the game and have already maxed out or nearly maxed out gear.

The difference between us and major cashers is that we know in-game mechanics and how the economy works, and can make money with minimal effort. It's almost as rewarding as swiping a credit card.

Merchanting in game for one year has allowed me to full jade/deity my rank 9 recast archer, and has allowed me to up the gear on some of my other toons as well, while affording charms for TWs/PKs.


I suggest a new player learn the price of most items and then learn a way to make money through merchanting after farming, rather than investing all money straight into gear.

Wow

Very pro

Much Flyranger

such noncash

so not dsholder being delusional

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide

I bought R9 for $1,600 and I have to say this.

This game is pay to win - in pvp only.

R9 is defintely over powered, and deserves to be feared against people who aren't.... It has a reputation and it follows suit. But is it worth $1,500? No.... Could spend that much and get an aftermarket gaming computer that will last you for 5 years (assuming you don't get a virus on it because you own a $1,600 computer and couldn't afford to pay for netflix to watch your favorite show so you download it instead and now have a brick next to your desk).

R9 be OP, yo. But not OP enough for $1,500. If you're tempted to do it, that's fine but you better order the full cheeseburger because you will need to third cast it, refine it to +10 minimum, and always wear a charm. (TW in mind in this sentence)

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wow

Very pro

Much Flyranger

such noncash

so not dsholder being delusional

Doge pls.

Nature_God - Sanctuary

Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »

You sir are a troll.

You sir don't know that troll is a mythical creature, so its pretty stupid to call human like that.

And you kids didn't know my point. I wasn't talking about endgame gears or anything that has ''end'' in its name. Clearly I was talking about that this game has no END. Meaning that even if you have those ''endgame'' gears, game still haven't ended and still continues for you. To me ''pay to win'' means that you have to pay so you can ''win'' the whole game. So once again I say: You don't ''win'' something that doesn't end. This is just my way of seeing things and if you don't like it, do not reply to me.

Unholly - Morai

Nature_God - Sanctuary wrote: »

You sir don't know that troll is a mythical creature, so its pretty stupid to call human like that.

And you kids didn't know my point. I wasn't talking about endgame gears or anything that has ''end'' in its name. Clearly I was talking about that this game has no END. Meaning that even if you have those ''endgame'' gears, game still haven't ended and still continues for you. To me ''pay to win'' means that you have to pay so you can ''win'' the whole game. So once again I say: You don't ''win'' something that doesn't end. This is just my way of seeing things and if you don't like it, do not reply to me.

No they understood.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

[COLOR="DimGrayJust because the game doesn't say "Thank you for playing, You WIN!!" doesn't mean that you can't reach its limits with nowhere else to go in terms of overall progression.

^This.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

EDIT: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win Not hard at all imho. :$

b:scorn Too cool to look up the actual definition! b:cool (or lazy one of the two b:chuckle ) Still my definition was pretty much the same.

Selak - Dreamweaver

The object of a true MMORPG is to kill time while the player is interacting with a fantasy world.

The object of a MMOFPS/TPS (TPS= Third Person Shooter) is to get to endgame gear and levels and to experience endgame content.

Therefore anything which speeds up the progress such as cashing or hypering to the end levels of a MMORPG is really losing the game for most real RPG players,
because it takes less time to get there defeating the purpose of playing a MMORPG in the first place.

This statement does not include ingame methods such as Merchanting which is a natural story line element but more like the use of hypers.

I have real trouble picturing how a policeman with a stone in his pocket gains more real life experience than the bloke with the same rank standing next to him in the same uniform at the same crime/accident scene.

Now if this game was advertised as a MMOFPS/TPS with some elements of RPG play and used the current style of leveling I may agree that it is possible to win.

But is supposed to be a MMORPG and thats what they sucker new players in with when they advertise.

For me personally the winning MMORPG will be the one I have played with the longest time, and not got to endgame so easy, as this and some other games allow you to do.

One last thing as to Dictionaries, I am an Aussie born in 1960 when I went to school we used the Oxford dictionary later in life I came across the Collins Dictionary and one of the first things I noticed was they could not even agree on the spelling of some words or even the meanings due to cultural differences in where they were made, so I take any dictionary definition with a grain of salt and remember how quickly word meanings have changed and will change in the future.