What is the MAX APS BASE (Read)

andrew97xs · September 2013

So i just want to know what is the max base aps for sin with out using Demonic Eruption.
all i know that 3.3 is max base aps, is there any high base aps?

Badonkajonck - Archosaur · September 2013

andrew97xs wrote: »

So i just want to know what is the max base aps for sin with out using Demonic Eruption.
all i know that 3.3 is max base aps, is there any high base aps?

Um there is 4 aps base. I do think you can get 5 aps but, do not hold that against me.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver · September 2013

Base is 5aps http://pwcalc.com/2160d30e48bb5f27

skaitavia · September 2013

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Base is 5aps http://pwcalc.com/2160d30e48bb5f27

This. Reasonably you can get 2x -int on R8r chest, and 1x -int on R8r boots, and with R8r legs you'll have one more -int on top of the regular APS set's -interval. That'll put you at one more -int over 5.0 base, but it's capped at 5.0

This is all assuming you have triple -int daggers. If you want to calculate the almost impossible, then you can do 3x -int on both chest and boots of R8r, which will put you at 4 ticks of interval above 5.0 base, which means you'll be 5.0 base with Demon CotD on.

With 5.0 base, I'm 2.86 with Demon chill on, so even with 3 more intervals, that'll put me at 5.0 base. But the chance of that happening are slim to none.

This is what I'm basing it off of. And this is with Demon chill on.

WannaBM - Archosaur · September 2013

3.33 is the base aps that creates 5APS with demon spark.

More aps than 3.33 is only usefull for faster chi building before you spark. You normally however make sure you end battles with chi and you're a sin anyway, they can make chi easilly.

Therefore if your gear gets expensive enough that you could go beyond 3.33 it is better to swap out some of this potential APS gear for stronger gear like cube necklace/warsong belt or G16 boots/sleeves/cape. Or of course, you could make a sage 5aps build if you have the resources for it.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · September 2013

Skaitavia wrote: »

which will put you at 4 ticks of interval above 5.0 base,

5 aps is .2 interval between attacks... 4 x -.05 interval "above" that would be 0.0 seconds between attacks... infinite aps! *looks at harpy and it drops dead because I just hit it 824,000 times in 0.0 seconds*

Now I'm mad pwi capped aps at such a low number. b:chuckle

OP: Any combo of -.5 int on your gear will give you 5 aps base. You also can use a genie to get there from 4.0 or even 3.33 with the right genie without needing to triple spark.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · September 2013

no fist builds? OP didn't say daggers XD

Badonkajonck - Archosaur · September 2013

Skaitavia wrote: »

This is what I'm basing it off of. And this is with Demon chill on.

Those daggers are amzing! /)

SinfulLia - Archosaur · October 2013

Skai, I am sitting here wondering why you are still demon with 5 aps base.....?
5 aps on a sage is great, and that's having to use apoth, base would be, uh, wow

opkossy · October 2013

SinfulLia - Archosaur wrote: »

Skai, I am sitting here wondering why you are still demon with 5 aps base.....?
5 aps on a sage is great, and that's having to use apoth, base would be, uh, wow

Base APS is completely independent of culti. The same gear for 5 APS base sage will also get a demon 5 APS base.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · October 2013

SinfulLia - Archosaur wrote: »

Skai, I am sitting here wondering why you are still demon with 5 aps base.....?
5 aps on a sage is great, and that's having to use apoth, base would be, uh, wow

All he needs is the r8r -int set to be 5 aps CotD with demon. That'd be pretty awesome.

And I know sage is the trend right now, or that old way of thinking that demon for aps and sage for skills, but many of us still prefer our demon skills over sages.

FistToDeath - Dreamweaver · October 2013

I believe, Kossy, she means that sage sins have better skills to go with the aps when you're already at 5/sec. But then there's the problem with being unable to permaspark at 4aps with chill on.

And, if you're really really lucky to get even more interval on your r8r gear, you can be base 4 aps with chill on.

SinfulLia - Archosaur · October 2013

Yea, no I understand that base aps is not affected by culti... a 102 sin who didn't know that b:shocked b:chuckle

Sage hits harder.
b:shutup
Before demons complain, sage spark>demon in terms of spark damage amp not taking into account the extra damage the sage dag devotion gives.
At 5aps base demon spark loses its main draw card, the extra -int.
You would have an easier time tanking WB, 3-3 etc as a sage with the damage reduction from spark as well as sage BP, rib, subsea etc making life easier for farming.
As Skai is a cotd dph pvper it would make sense to go sage, as the skills are supposedly better for cotd dph pk as a sage?

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · October 2013

SinfulLia - Archosaur wrote: »

Yea, no I understand that base aps is not affected by culti... a 102 sin who didn't know that b:shocked b:chuckle

Sage hits harder.
b:shutup
Before demons complain, sage spark>demon in terms of spark damage amp not taking into account the extra damage the sage dag devotion gives.
At 5aps base demon spark loses its main draw card, the extra -int.
You would have an easier time tanking WB, 3-3 etc as a sage with the damage reduction from spark as well as sage BP, rib, subsea etc making life easier for farming.
As Skai is a cotd dph pvper it would make sense to go sage, as the skills are supposedly better for cotd dph pk as a sage?

Unless you have chill on and use skills based on wep damage sages dont hit too much harder. First of all why does a 3.33 base demon sin need to be 4-5aps base? It's a waste of freaking int, when you could drop aps and use better defensive gears. Sage bp is a party buff. As for sage spark reduction, it's there, nothign we can do about that.

As for PK, it depends on playstyle. Sage vs demon dph is basically, raw damage vs crit, until the sage sin uses powerdash. Demon gets better stuns, sages get better CC rotation (cdr and guaranteed interrupt). Demon can still auto in PvP with chill, sage can use spark to reduce damage. BTW the sparks both give 500% wep damage, IJS.

This sage vs demon **** really irritates me, they are even culti's, and they are made to fit different playstyles even within themselvs.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · October 2013

SinfulLia - Archosaur wrote: »

Yea, no I understand that base aps is not affected by culti... a 102 sin who didn't know that b:shocked b:chuckle

Sage hits harder.
b:shutup
Before demons complain, sage spark>demon in terms of spark damage amp not taking into account the extra damage the sage dag devotion gives.
At 5aps base demon spark loses its main draw card, the extra -int.
You would have an easier time tanking WB, 3-3 etc as a sage with the damage reduction from spark as well as sage BP, rib, subsea etc making life easier for farming.
As Skai is a cotd dph pvper it would make sense to go sage, as the skills are supposedly better for cotd dph pk as a sage?

...huh? Most of this is just incorrect.

How is 500% weapon damage for sage better than 500% weapon damage for demons? It is true that sage auto attack hits about 1.5% harder (15% more weapon damage) when you count dagger devotion, but you said not taking into account dagger devotion. Dagger devotion means almost nothing when we're talking 975% vs 990% damage from a spark (500% spark, 600 dex= 400%, 75% mastery). It's about 1 .5% difference (smaller when you count rings, meridians, +attack adds, titles), meanwhile the demon gets 2% more crit which is around 1.5% more dd (40% cri vs 38% crit rate). Almost exactly equal gains.

Sage "hit harder" on average. Demon's hit harder when wolf emblemed, and many demon skills also hit harder. How wolf emblem works if being spammed is demon is better for 30 seconds, sage then catches up to equal in the next 30 seconds. At almost no point is sage WE allowing more damage assuming a consistant crit average.

A sage would have an easier time tanking WBs because of sage rib strike? Explain how 50% reduced attack rate is higher than 65% reduced attack rate?

Sage Subsea is better for tanking? Yes, if you kill the boss in 8 seconds but what bosses are we worried about that die in 8 seconds. Demon Subsea allows you 130% bloodpaint heals for 15 seconds every 30 seconds which is excellent in helping tank and recovering hp at an increased rate.

Since the conversation is about Skai, his culti actually matters. If he were sage he would be 5 aps base and have 25% damage reduction. Since he's demon he is almost able to be 5 aps base and CotD which would be about a 25% gain in dps. This means 25% more paint heals of a 250k (ish) dps character, so thousands more hp every second while sage damage reduction would be saving him a couple hundred hp of damage every time the boss attacks (is it once every 1.66 seconds?). It only makes a difference if he isn't already able to tank and fully heal. Just like 25% more aps serves no purpose when you're 5.0 base (unless a boss slows your attack rate) a sages 25% damage reduction serves no purpose if you can tank without the damage reduction like I'm sure Skai can.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

...huh? Most of this is just incorrect.

How is 500% weapon damage for sage better than 500% weapon damage for demons? It is true that sage auto attack hits about 1.5% harder (15% more weapon damage) when you count dagger devotion, but you said not taking into account dagger devotion. Dagger devotion means almost nothing when we're talking 975% vs 990% damage from a spark (500% spark, 600 dex= 400%, 75% mastery). It's about 1 .5% difference (smaller when you count rings, meridians, +attack adds, titles), meanwhile the demon gets 2% more crit which is around 1.5% more dd (40% cri vs 38% crit rate). Almost exactly equal gains.

Sage "hit harder" on average. Demon's hit harder when wolf emblemed, and many demon skills also hit harder. How wolf emblem works if being spammed is demon is better for 30 seconds, sage then catches up to equal in the next 30 seconds. At almost no point is sage WE allowing more damage assuming a consistant crit average.

A sage would have an easier time tanking WBs because of sage rib strike? Explain how 50% reduced attack rate is higher than 65% reduced attack rate?

Sage Subsea is better for tanking? Yes, if you kill the boss in 8 seconds but what bosses are we worried about that die in 8 seconds. Demon Subsea allows you 130% bloodpaint heals for 15 seconds every 30 seconds which is excellent in helping tank and recovering hp at an increased rate.

Since the conversation is about Skai, his culti actually matters. If he were sage he would be 5 aps base and have 25% damage reduction. Since he's demon he is almost able to be 5 aps base and CotD which would be about a 25% gain in dps. This means 25% more paint heals of a 250k (ish) dps character, so thousands more hp every second while sage damage reduction would be saving him a couple hundred hp of damage every time the boss attacks (is it once every 1.66 seconds?). It only makes a difference if he isn't already able to tank and fully heal. Just like 25% more aps serves no purpose when you're 5.0 base (unless a boss slows your attack rate) a sages 25% damage reduction serves no purpose if you can tank without the damage reduction like I'm sure Skai can.

Well saidb:cute.

Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear · October 2013

One of my faction mates is 5.0 base with r9s3 daggers and r8s2 armor

skaitavia · October 2013

I'm still Demon for many reasons, but 5aps base is a fun thing to mess around with.

Though I do not use these daggers with that gear setup. Those daggers allows me to use my r8r chest, legs, and boots, regardless of having -int on them. That's because with my r8r gear and T2 bracers/helm to keep that +5 attack level set bonus, I'll still be at 3.33 base APS, which is still 5 sparked.

If I do eventually get any number of -int on either r8r boots or chest, it'll just mean I get to substitute more gear out. In my case I would replace my TT99 HA ornaments with R9 belt and a cube neck. That's for 1x -int. If I get 2x, I'd replace my lunar cape with my Wings of Ascension. If I ever get something crazy like 3x -int on both chest and boots, I'd be in CoTD with my gear replacements. xD

All of these options are possible with those daggers, and it's kind of fun to me, really. Yes, it's complete overkill for PvE, but I like things like that.

SinfulLia - Archosaur · October 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

...huh? Most of this is just incorrect.

How is 500% weapon damage for sage better than 500% weapon damage for demons? It is true that sage auto attack hits about 1.5% harder (15% more weapon damage) when you count dagger devotion, but you said not taking into account dagger devotion. Dagger devotion means almost nothing when we're talking 975% vs 990% damage from a spark (500% spark, 600 dex= 400%, 75% mastery). It's about 1 .5% difference (smaller when you count rings, meridians, +attack adds, titles), meanwhile the demon gets 2% more crit which is around 1.5% more dd (40% cri vs 38% crit rate). Almost exactly equal gains.

Please don't bring gear meridians etc into this, I was assuming this would all be equal.

Sage "hit harder" on average. Demon's hit harder when wolf emblemed, and many demon skills also hit harder. How wolf emblem works if being spammed is demon is better for 30 seconds, sage then catches up to equal in the next 30 seconds. At almost no point is sage WE allowing more damage assuming a consistant crit average.

I don't know if it is my computer/connection or what ever but wolf emblem takes me about a second to put on(this is the time from when I stop auto attacking to put it on to begin attacking again) the advantage of not having to do recast as sage benefits me greatly, but idn might just be me >.<

A sage would have an easier time tanking WBs because of sage rib strike? Explain how 50% reduced attack rate is higher than 65% reduced attack rate?

I was meaning as a whole it would be easier as sage due to spark damage reduction. Although sage rib is very useful with 10% health gone instantly

Sage Subsea is better for tanking? Yes, if you kill the boss in 8 seconds but what bosses are we worried about that die in 8 seconds. Demon Subsea allows you 130% bloodpaint heals for 15 seconds every 30 seconds which is excellent in helping tank and recovering hp at an increased rate.

ok, I feel you here

Since the conversation is about Skai, his culti actually matters. If he were sage he would be 5 aps base and have 25% damage reduction. Since he's demon he is almost able to be 5 aps base and CotD which would be about a 25% gain in dps. This means 25% more paint heals of a 250k (ish) dps character, so thousands more hp every second while sage damage reduction would be saving him a couple hundred hp of damage every time the boss attacks (is it once every 1.66 seconds?). It only makes a difference if he isn't already able to tank and fully heal. Just like 25% more aps serves no purpose when you're 5.0 base (unless a boss slows your attack rate) a sages 25% damage reduction serves no purpose if you can tank without the damage reduction like I'm sure Skai can.

Tried to respond

Cantabrum - Archosaur · October 2013

b:chuckle Sakubatou please excuse sinfunlia b:shutup
on aps damage demon wins whit equal daggers
culti is irrelevant is just a play style

sage rb is better for pvp, for pve i would prefer demon rb wich allow me decrease 75%atack speed ,may by wrong here i never played a demon sin or payed attention to it,not sure if its 65 or 75 so im srry ^^

but yea x3 int on daggers is fun to have but i prefer at max 0.1 and some 130 increase pshy damage
but yea if have them they fun to play whit xD

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · October 2013

SinfulLia - Archosaur wrote: »

Tried to respond

You should just stop. b:chuckle I'm sage and clearly demon is better for speedy farming with good gears, but dont make excuses trying to compare sage to demon. There's no piont because it's based on playstyle. Even with the 10% on rib, some bosses are gonna go down faster with a demon sin, I just that 10% in just compensation? If a demon plays their sin as well as I play mind they would be faster than me farming, but most dont, so that comes down to skill. Sage spark reduction is good, but not in PvE, I'd prefers BB to sage spark since I'm gonna need WS for chi anyway, or set up BB and RB then go afk.

MsVixxxen - Heavens Tear · October 2013

Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear wrote: »

One of my faction mates is 5.0 base with r9s3 daggers and r8s2 armor

BASE means unsparked. Devils is 5.0 sparked. 3.33 base.

WannaBM - Archosaur · October 2013

Cantabrum - Archosaur wrote: »

but yea x3 int on daggers is fun to have but i prefer at max 0.1 and some 130 increase pshy damage
but yea if have them they fun to play whit xD

Are you so jealous of 3x int daggers that you have to post this ? b:laugh

Cantabrum - Archosaur · October 2013

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Are you so jealous of 3x int daggers that you have to post this ? b:laugh

if got nothing to add to topic just dont comment lol

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · October 2013

SinfulLia - Archosaur wrote: »

Please don't bring gear meridians etc into this, I was assuming this would all be equal.

So much work to debate when people don't quote correctly >.<

I was using a case where everything was equal. The purpose of pointing out rings, meridians, and titles is they grow your dph. Sage dagger devotion is a part of dph, and as you have more and more adding into it it becomes a smaller and smaller portion. Demon Dagger Devotion's crit addition is outside of dph and works as a multiplier, so as your dph gets bigger and bigger the crit rate starts to add a large bonus than the dph. For most sins they both total up to about 1.5% more damage right now but in different ways. For sages, it's 1.5 more dph and dps. For demon's it's 1.5% more dps. In pk, the demon 2% crit is probably more valuable. Hope that clears it up.

SinfulLia - Archosaur wrote: »

I don't know if it is my computer/connection or what ever but wolf emblem takes me about a second to put on(this is the time from when I stop auto attacking to put it on to begin attacking again) the advantage of not having to do recast as sage benefits me greatly, but idn might just be me >.<

How I typically combo my WE in I see no graphic lag or notice any loss in chi gain. I triple spark, Inner Harmony, and then WE and Subsea at the same moment and start apsing. Thirty seconds later I triple spark and click attack and WE at the same moment so it appears to go straight from the spark animation to auto attacking with no time loss, but WE is active. I stick to it that sage WE is an overall damage loss in 99% of the cases (TW being the 1%). If I duo a TT my WE is literally on 100% of the time since guards and bosses rarely take longer than 30 seconds and WE coolsdown in between. The main benefit of sage WE imo is the chi gain, and I won't knock that down because its a beautiful thing.

SinfulLia - Archosaur wrote: »

Although sage rib is very useful with 10% health gone instantly

Tried to respond

It's not really instant, is it, since it takes 2.2 seconds to cast? I can drop 10% off of just about any bosses hp in 2 seconds just fine, too, lol

Just saying there are better ways to remove 10% hp. I'd much prefer an archer or a veno take off 20% while I'm up there triple sparking.

In pk its a fair debate on which is more useful, though, and in most cases I'd say sage Rib wins in pvp. But the discussion was which helps you tank better, and demon wins that.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

So much work to debate when people don't quote correctly >.<

I was using a case where everything was equal. The purpose of pointing out rings, meridians, and titles is they grow your dph. Sage dagger devotion is a part of dph, and as you have more and more adding into it it becomes a smaller and smaller portion. Demon Dagger Devotion's crit addition is outside of dph and works as a multiplier, so as your dph gets bigger and bigger the crit rate starts to add a large bonus than the dph. For most sins they both total up to about 1.5% more damage right now but in different ways. For sages, it's 1.5 more dph and dps. For demon's it's 1.5% more dps. In pk, the demon 2% crit is probably more valuable. Hope that clears it up.

How I typically combo my WE in I see no graphic lag or notice any loss in chi gain. I triple spark, Inner Harmony, and then WE and Subsea at the same moment and start apsing. Thirty seconds later I triple spark and click attack and WE at the same moment so it appears to go straight from the spark animation to auto attacking with no time loss, but WE is active. I stick to it that sage WE is an overall damage loss in 99% of the cases (TW being the 1%). If I duo a TT my WE is literally on 100% of the time since guards and bosses rarely take longer than 30 seconds and WE coolsdown in between. The main benefit of sage WE imo is the chi gain, and I won't knock that down because its a beautiful thing.

It's not really instant, is it, since it takes 2.2 seconds to cast? I can drop 10% off of just about any bosses hp in 2 seconds just fine, too, lol Just saying there are better ways to remove 10% hp. I'd much prefer an archer or a veno take off 20% while I'm up there triple sparking.

In pk its a fair debate on which is more useful, though, and in most cases I'd say sage Rib wins in pvp. But the discussion was which helps you tank better, and demon wins that.

The thing about demon crit being more powerful in PvP is debatable due to sage powerdash, which blows your mastery out of the water. Not to mention it can be crit glitched. Also Sage multiplies when you get a zerk, demon does not.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · October 2013

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The thing about demon crit being more powerful in PvP is debatable due to sage powerdash, which blows your mastery out of the water. Not to mention it can be crit glitched. Also Sage multiplies when you get a zerk, demon does not.

Not alot of sins power dashing in pvp, sage or demon. Crit glitched as in channel canceled which was removed over 2 years ago or am I missing something? And how do demons not get zerks also? Btw, many demons are maxing the 95% crit rate with their PD anyways (sometimes with base buffs or weapon shards)

jhpwione · October 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

...huh? Most of this is just incorrect.

How is 500% weapon damage for sage better than 500% weapon damage for demons? It is true that sage auto attack hits about 1.5% harder (15% more weapon damage) when you count dagger devotion, but you said not taking into account dagger devotion. Dagger devotion means almost nothing when we're talking 975% vs 990% damage from a spark (500% spark, 600 dex= 400%, 75% mastery). It's about 1 .5% difference (smaller when you count rings, meridians, +attack adds, titles), meanwhile the demon gets 2% more crit which is around 1.5% more dd (40% cri vs 38% crit rate). .

Stopped reading after seeing that.

What you say is true only for a comparison of an assassin who can reach 10.15 attack multiplier and another with 10.0 attack multiplier.

base damage = attack multiplier x weapon attack

attack multiplier = 1 + ( Dex / 150 ) + weapon mastery + physical attack buffs

Sage
Attack Multiplier = 1 + (600/150) + 0.9 + 0.5 + 5 = 11.4 (Sage Dagger Devotion, Sage Strength of Titans and Celestial Eruption)

Base Damage = 11.4 x 1,500 = 17,100

Demon
Attack Multiplier = 1 + (600/150) + 0.75 + 0.5 + 5 = 11.25 (Demon Dagger Devotion, Sage Strength of Titans and Demon Eruption)

Base Damage = 11.25 x 1,500 = 16,875

17,100/16,875 x 100 = 101.33%

If we are comparing lower attack multipliers, the difference between the base damage of a Sage and Demon will be more significant.

Sage
Attack Multiplier = 1 + (600/150) + 0.9 = 5.9 base damage = 8,850

Demon
Attack Multiplier = 1 + (600/150) + 0.75 = 5.75 base damage = 8,625

8,850/8,625 x 100 = 102.6%

On a side note, you probably talked about mastery for magic users on other threads and probably got it wrong as well.

attack multiplier = 1 + ( Mag / 100 ) + magical attack buffs

Magic mastery does not affect attack multiplier, weapon attack or base attack.

It simply amplifies the damage a magic user deals according to the element the mastery is responsible for.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not alot of sins power dashing in pvp, sage or demon. Crit glitched as in channel canceled which was removed over 2 years ago or am I missing something? And how do demons not get zerks also? Btw, many demons are maxing the 95% crit rate with their PD anyways (sometimes with base buffs or weapon shards)

You forgot sage powerdash gives 10% crit (but my crit markers have been showing almost all hits to be crits for that 8secs, which means crit glitch), demon's get 30% chance to immobolize, demon's dont get crit from powerdash and we both get 40% rage damage increase. I use powerdash in PvP bc it always seems to crit on hit, which produces a higher likely hood of that hit being a zerk crit. Demons get zerks, but zerk scales with weapon damage, not crit, so therefore when a sage sin zerks or crits, or zerk crits, we do higher damage during those hits. It not an average, its a single hit. Demon mastery gives a slight boost and crit, but that crit% doesn't actually affect the hit itself, which puts sage ahead on the spike damage until you factor in lv11 WE (going off the assumption they both have lv10 here). Therefore sage has the average higher end on spike damage, when the demon's wolf emblem is not active. A lot of sins dont powerdash because they dont figure it's useful, but 40% rage damage=40% more damage on crit, which enables your crits to spike higher then wolf emblem alone, and the critical chance increase on sage wolf emblem. That combo has produced me a lot of nasty zerk crits that even my HH (lv10 now) couldnt reach.

skaitavia · October 2013

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You forgot sage powerdash gives 10% crit (but my crit markers have been showing almost all hits to be crits for that 8secs, which means crit glitch), demon's get 30% chance to immobolize, demon's dont get crit from powerdash and we both get 40% rage damage increase. I use powerdash in PvP bc it always seems to crit on hit, which produces a higher likely hood of that hit being a zerk crit. Demons get zerks, but zerk scales with weapon damage, not crit, so therefore when a sage sin zerks or crits, or zerk crits, we do higher damage during those hits. It not an average, its a single hit. Demon mastery gives a slight boost and crit, but that crit% doesn't actually affect the hit itself, which puts sage ahead on the spike damage until you factor in lv11 WE (going off the assumption they both have lv10 here). Therefore sage has the average higher end on spike damage, when the demon's wolf emblem is not active. A lot of sins dont powerdash because they dont figure it's useful, but 40% rage damage=40% more damage on crit, which enables your crits to spike higher then wolf emblem alone, and the critical chance increase on sage wolf emblem. That combo has produced me a lot of nasty zerk crits that even my HH (lv10 now) couldnt reach.

There is so much wrong in this post that I just have to call it out.

You can see here that I get the 40% crit boost from Demon Powerdash. The skill description of Demon is:

Use 2 sparks, gain 40% crit rate, and have a 30% chance to immobilize your target for 3 seconds.

Sage is:

Use 2 sparks and gain 50% crit rate.

When an assassin gets their R9r2 set and is pure dex with a decent tome, such as L:UaD or Dominance, they'll usually be at a crit rate that's 55% or higher. Crit rate caps at 95%, so when an assassin's crit rate hits 55% or higher, Demon Powerdash actually comes out on top in terms of being better than its Sage counterpart. You also misread the skill description. Yes, it does say "40% rage damage" on Powerdash, but it really means 40% crit rate, which holds true when you do use that skill, as the buff icon is crit rate increase.

On top of all that, assuming both cultivations having a skill level that are not at their cultivation level (i.e. level 10 Wolf Emblem) is a bit pointless in comparing damage, as why would one cultivation keep their WE at level 10 instead of upgrading to what is obviously an upgrade for their cultivation? If anything, you'd be comparing level 10 WE for Sage (due to the 30% rage damage increase instead of the 20% of Sage's) with Demon's WE. But the comparison you have made is incorrect due to not knowing what Powerdash really does to begin with.

So to correct you, Demon sins will always do higher spike damage due to their 40% crit damage (rage) WE. Even if Sage sins do have a 15% more base weapon damage Dagger Devotion mastery, the 40% crit damage increase just overpowers that, since it's applied after all damage calculations have been made.

I just hope that clears some things up!

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Skaitavia wrote: »

There is so much wrong in this post that I just have to call it out.

You can see here that I get the 40% crit boost from Demon Powerdash. The skill description of Demon is:

Use 2 sparks, gain 40% crit rate, and have a 30% chance to immobilize your target for 3 seconds.

Sage is:

Use 2 sparks and gain 50% crit rate.

When an assassin gets their R9r2 set and is pure dex with a decent tome, such as L:UaD or Dominance, they'll usually be at a crit rate that's 55% or higher. Crit rate caps at 95%, so when an assassin's crit rate hits 55% or higher, Demon Powerdash actually comes out on top in terms of being better than its Sage counterpart. You also misread the skill description. Yes, it does say "40% rage damage" on Powerdash, but it really means 40% crit rate, which holds true when you do use that skill, as the buff icon is crit rate increase.

On top of all that, assuming both cultivations having a skill level that are not at their cultivation level (i.e. level 10 Wolf Emblem) is a bit pointless in comparing damage, as why would one cultivation keep their WE at level 10 instead of upgrading to what is obviously an upgrade for their cultivation? If anything, you'd be comparing level 10 WE for Sage (due to the 30% rage damage increase instead of the 20% of Sage's) with Demon's WE. But the comparison you have made is incorrect due to not knowing what Powerdash really does to begin with.

So to correct you, Demon sins will always do higher spike damage due to their 40% crit damage (rage) WE. Even if Sage sins do have a 15% more base weapon damage Dagger Devotion mastery, the 40% crit damage increase just overpowers that, since it's applied after all damage calculations have been made.

I just hope that clears some things up!

I compared to the two at lv10 WE because it's not common for either culti to have lv11 on my server. Sage WE I have never seen on DW actually.

I see that I typed that incorrectly. I meant lv10 for both sins. Yes demon WE is better during those 30 secs, but only when the demon crits, not when he zerks. Zerk and crit both scale on weapon damage not crit%, which makes sage have the higher spike damage (when factoring lv10 WE). In that case I'm talking about the average r9.3 sin, WE seems to be a rare book for both culti's.

As for Power Dash, wouldn't that make sage better? It basically means that you can focus on less crit and more attack damage since it caps you before a demon sin does. I'm having trouble seeing how Demon Power Dash could be better for damage since it gives 10% less crit than the sage version. It might seem silly to leave out WE in the discussion for that, but I'm talking about the skill Power Dash alone. Unless what you are saying is that the 10% crit is worthless after that point, is it? However even so, that still puts Sage Power Dash ahead, even if it's overkill. And if you don't have 55% crit rate, then it's even better than if you did. Or at least thats how I see it. As for my post it's more of speculation rather than me saying 'this is how it is'. I'm just pointing out things I notice, even if they seem worthless to others.

What is the MAX APS BASE (Read)

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