Archer Demon or Sage for PK

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I saw him in Arch on my catshop. +6 G15 cube neck, R8 ring and R9 ring, perfect citrines (not immacs) and rest +10 (I think), so no, not up to your standards, but a mile above my G16 +3 flawless standard.

+10 r9 perf hp sharded wiz is a bit over 12k hp (even taking in to account of his 4 atk shards). It'll take 6 shots at 4.8k damage per shot to score the kill. Maybe the wiz was just so stunned that you managed to purge him that he stood there for 6 seconds... who knows.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

When I talk I usually talk about experience fighting people my own gear level since getting oneshot doesn't really count for much. Yea, there's going to be a disconnect between what I can or can't do and what works and what works at your gear level (an extremely small community, if I must say). I hit level 70 at around the time NW came out and missed no more than 3 NWs so it's not like I have zero pvp experience, lol.

So you have pvp experience... great. Your experience comes from fighting +3s... not so great. Why are you trying to pass on experience fighting +3 refines... when I can throw a rock in west and find someone that'll kill you and your oppoinent with a ****?

Jarkhen - Archosaur

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

+10 r9 perf hp sharded wiz is a bit over 12k hp (even taking in to account of his 4 atk shards). It'll take 6 shots at 4.8k damage per shot to score the kill.

While I agree with the rest of your post... *5 shots.

12k -> (1) 7.2k -> (2, tick) 12k -> (3) 7.2k -> (4) 2.4k -> (5) dead

And, yes, I can see someone who isn't expecting to be hit standing there for 5 shots, especially if they're stunned at the start. It happens often, especially in CTF when people forget they can't use their genie while carrying the flag.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

While I agree with the rest of your post... *5 shots.

12k -> (1) 7.2k -> (2, tick) 12k -> (3) 7.2k -> (4) 2.4k -> (5) dead

And, yes, I can see someone who isn't expecting to be hit standing there for 5 shots, especially if they're stunned at the start. It happens often, especially in CTF when people forget they can't use their genie while carrying the flag.

6 shots... even if you manage to pull off sage stun as the first shot... that'll leave more than enough time for def charm to activate and prevent the 5th shot from being a kill shot. with the addition of pot/insta pot at the end... it'll more likely be 7 shots.

Just how many months has nation was been out now... and people are still forgetting they can't use genie. I guess if you must insist everything to go right for you and everything to go wrong for your target... it could work.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

6 shots... even if you manage to pull off sage stun as the first shot... that'll leave more than enough time for def charm to activate and prevent the 5th shot from being a kill shot. with the addition of pot/insta pot at the end... it'll more likely be 7 shots.

Just how many months has nation was been out now... and people are still forgetting they can't use genie. I guess if you must insist everything to go right for you and everything to go wrong for your target... it could work.

Not quite. Sage stun is 5 seconds, all 5 hits would be off inside the stun with an attack rate of 1aps, hence no defense charm ticking on the last hit. Windshield if you are doubtful about the last hit landing.

Even if the first hit (the stun) itself is defense charmed, 2.4k+4.k8 = 7.2k, half of 12k is 6k, so charm will tick with 3 more hits to kill (4.8k*3 = 14.4k). Even the auto potter activating for hp pots is iffy. If we assume that wiz was full hp and the first hit was a stun... then no, there won't be a hp pot ticking away. That means we can safely disregard the ~1000 hp a 3500 hp pot would recover in 3 seconds after charm tick, even though its not necessary: 14.4k-1k = 13.4k, still well over 12k.

This whole scenario is actually not terribly unlikely, 5 crits in a row is fairly plausible for a archer, every once in a while. I have 10 crits in a row documented, refer the ending of this video archer vs. cleric 1vs1, and 7 crits in a row at the beginning of this video another archer vs. cleric 1vs1. If you still think crit is unlikely without crit buff, modify the combo to sage quickshot (crit, defense charm gets ticked), then stun (charm tick crit), then 3 more crits; at 70% crit this is not just plausible, its quite likely; for non r9rr archer, 60% crit is still well within realms of possibility.

I'd be inclined to think that, if the archer was demon instead and did stun > quickshot, its entirely possible and well documented that the auto attack after quickshot will land at roughly the same time as quickshot, and it'll probably be a crit more likely than not, so you could bypass charm with 4.8k-4.8k dead, instead of chewing through the whole hp bar again. Seen it happen to me, and I have some of the best gear available (triple sparked demon archer with tangling mire and purged and some crits, but same principle).

Also not entirely unrelated: your signature and your general manner of speech say more unpleasant things about yourself than it does to show how 'pro' you are. No amount of gear or skill or experience gives you the right or responsibility to criticize others for attempting to pk even when their gear or experience aren't up to your level yet: that is the tactic of a bully, somebody who covers for their own lacks by pushing others down. Shame.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

No windshield and no little sparkles going around the toon so no def charm either. Not sure about HP charm either; can't remember exactly.\\

Back on topic, I still don't think sage frost arrow does great damage, but it's 1.6 seconds channel + cast and most situations don't leave enough time to channel+cast all 3.3 seconds of thunder blast. Definitely one of my go-to skills for metal defense when Strike is on CD.

Otherwise, what I'd like from the Demon side is the PVE dps, zhen and burst dps through quickshot. Will definitely miss chi and elemental skill and the potential of sage QS-->stun-->ztp metal combo.

@Kiyoshi correction, I pvp'd in TT70 vs the R8/NVT2 of when NW first came out, pvp'd in TT90 and FC gold bow when R9rr and G16 first started becoming more common, and pvp'd in R6/TT90/G15 till I got to mostly G16 b:laugh

Quilue - Sanctuary

12k hp right?

If you can crit 4.8k on that, it's easily bypass-able in 3 crits. Of course, if any sort of complication occurs and you ticked, then it's a bit complicated.

Normally I wouldn't be talking about bypassing anyone, but it's a low sharded and purged robe so...

When you're outnumbered in NW a lot, it's worth knowing how to kill the moderately geared the cleanest way possible so you can do some damage before the mobs converge on your position.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not quite. Sage stun is 5 seconds, all 5 hits would be off inside the stun with an attack rate of 1aps, hence no defense charm ticking on the last hit. Windshield if you are doubtful about the last hit landing.

sage cannot hit 1aps without windshield or rb... even then it requires some very selective gear. now... whats the chance someone with "G16 +3~5 (+7 hat) with +5 G15 weapon" will be able to hit 1aps. i said 1aps because i am too lazy to do the math.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

@Kiyoshi correction, I pvp'd in TT70 vs the R8/NVT2 of when NW first came out, pvp'd in TT90 and FC gold bow when R9rr and G16 first started becoming more common, and pvp'd in R6/TT90/G15 till I got to mostly G16 b:laugh

you pvp'ed in tt70 against r8s, etc... so what... is that suppose to mean anything? i pvp'ed in tt60 xbow, tt70 green bow, tt80 stun xbow, tt90 green bow, tt90 dex bow, tt90 gold xbow, cv, tt99 gold xbow, r8, r9, and now 3rd cast r9. Pretty sure my list nerf whatever list you got... and as far as I am concerned... it all means jack **** when it comes to pvp experience.

just cause you have the gears, doesn't mean you know how to use it. otherwise no one would be calling fc nubs... nubs.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

12k hp right?
If you can crit 4.8k on that, it's easily bypass-able in 3 crits. Of course, if any sort of complication occurs and you ticked, then it's a bit complicated.

thats do able with outside help... its not doable with 3 hits if solo.

Zowie - Morai

Hahaha! I make a post go afk for 2 days from forum. And i have 7 pages to read! Just so people know I went Demon. Dont know if that was the best or not but I liked the skills from it
I go read all the replies now. :O
Thanks Regard Melyama

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sage cannot hit 1aps without windshield

thats do able with outside help... its not doable with 3 hits if solo.

-I already mentioned windshield, read more

-its very doable IF the two hits are quickshot, or take aim. Three hits start from the max 12k hp, but only 2 hits to bypass charm. Quickshot or take aim, instead of attack, hit, hit, hit (hit being a normal attack), its more like attack-hit, hit, hit, hit. Surely you, such an experienced archer, know this by now...

*eyebrow*

Edit: Some additional considerations:

-First, auto potter does not activate if hit by a stun attack (a defense charm already activated will cut the first hit's dmg in half, but the 3500 hp pot won't start till stun is over; I already showed that even if first hit is only 2.4k, 2.4k+4.8k = 7.2k, well over the 6k half hp mark of the 12k target)

-Second, to my best knowledge the time the stun arrives at the end of the channel of stunning arrow. Stunning arrow has a 1.5s channel and 0.6s cast, but it is only the 0.6s cast that eats into the 5 seconds of the stun. So instead of the stun attack taking 1 second, it only takes 0.6 seconds. This leaves us with 5-0.6 = 4.4 seconds to fit in 4 auto attacks; 4.4/4 = 1.1 seconds for each attack, or 1/1.1 = 0.91 aps required with windshield. If my math here is correct, that means X*1.1 = 0.91 aps; X = 0.91/1.1 = 0.83 base aps required for windshield to get to 0.91 aps

-Thirdly: full g16 light armor gear has next to no interval (aside from wrists) and while I'm not going to do the pwcalc for it, probably will have difficulty obtaining the 0.83 aps required. On the other hand, r9rr can certainly manage it with interval cape and weapon, and hybrid g16/g15 builds with interval cape/leggings should be able to as well

EDIT: its not difficult to get the 0.83, but you definitely have to be willing to break up the g16 set bonuses somewhat. g15/g16 hybrid with 0.83 aps In this link you could further remove g16 gear by using r8 chest; or if you want to consider that the weapon wouldn't have two 0.05 interval pieces, you could have tt99 ornaments. This isn't necessarily a build I'd advocate but its certainly plausible.

EDIT2: a less conventional build which wouldn't be terribly expensive, to achieve the same thing r8/g16 hybrid with 0.83 aps

-Final consideration: what if we assume person had pressed a hp pot of 3500 before being hit? Would it actually save the person? The first two hits from the archer would take 0.6+1 seconds, in other words, stunning arrow and auto attack. 3500 hp*(1.6s/10s) = 560 hp. The target has 12k max hp, half of which is 6k hp; we assumed in our scenario 4.8k crits, so 4.8k+4.8k = 9.6k; 9.6k-6k-560 = 3040 hp; in other words, the 3500 pot wouldn't stop charm from ticking in 2 hits, by a margin of 3040 dmg. (What if first hit was half dmg from defense charm? 2.4k+4.8k = 7.2k; 7.2k-560 = 6.64k, STILL over 6k hp, and will still tick hp charm).

In the remaining ~3 seconds (3 more hits), 3500 pot recovers 3500(3/10) = 1050 hp. We assume three more 4.8k crits, 4.8k*3 = 14.4k dmg; subtract hp recovered, 14.4k-1.05k = 13.25k, still over the max hp of 12k target. Thus again we can still say that target would die even if a 3500 pot had been used, as long as the 5th attack does arrive before auto potter activates, which by the math I performed above, it should be able to in many situations.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Take Aim does not give a followup attack.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Take Aim does not give a followup attack.

Like hell it doesn't lol. Take aim goes something like take aim-attack, attack, attack, as opposed to most other attacks, which are skill, attack, attack. The auto attack following take aim lands right after take aim, such that it can bypass charms, or hit a mob after mob is already dead.

tsyfall

This is just a question about Stunning Arrow, since it's been brought up so much.
As a sin I make it a point to resist or counter an Archer's stun. However, certain endgame archers seem to fire off their Stunning Arrow a lot faster than the 1.5 seconds that Ecatomb claims (like half a second or quicker). I suspect either a difference in animation or a mistranslated skill description, seeing as archers with no -chan gear still have the same phenomenon.

Could someone explain this for me?

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

-5% chan from Emperor and -6% from R9 recast ring takes channeling time down to 1.335 seconds, which is a bit over the half second difference you mentioned

tsyfall

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

-5% chan from Emperor and -6% from R9 recast ring takes channeling time down to 1.335 seconds, which is a bit over the half second difference you mentioned

The thing is, I see this with archers who have pangu and skycovers.

A normal archer's stunning arrow I can actually time fortify by watching for the animation. I find this impossible with certain archers, as I see the animation the same time the stun lands.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Edit: Some additional considerations:

1. When someone says +3 g16 armor set... logically I would assume over 50% (possible) armor pieces being g16. not a 50/50 split between int/g16... also not a r8 set (especially one where the boot has a -int add).
2. For someone who can only afford a +3 g16 armor and g15 bow... thats some pretty nice double recasted int on the weapon. i personally drove up the price of rap/cannie by over 30% when i decided to buy all my 3rd cast in a single weekend... but i have yet manage to recast a double int on anything. maybe he is just luckier than me... but really... what are the chances.
3. when i said pot/insta pot. you managed to picked up on crab meat... but seems to have missed the "insta pot" part. while i'll give you that one since i can't myself remember the name of it... its the one where you do the divine quest and trade from npc... 1.5k hp/mp recover instantly.
4. lastly... i am pretty sure his gear set/speed is closer to my expectation than you -int build. stack on enough -int... sage can get 1aps without genie... but that's really not what we're talking about here.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

I think you are still making some invalid assumptions, Kiyoshi. First of all, I was arguing for whether it was possible, not whether it had actually occurred. First of all, we do not have enough information as to Walpurga's gear to definitely say it couldn't have occurred based on what we were told:

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm G16 +3~5 (+7 hat) with +5 G15 weapon

and

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Money wise I'll be farming R9 after my G16 set is finished.

and

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

but a mile above my G16 +3 flawless standard.

Can we actually tell exactly which gear pieces she has from this information? No. Could we, in fact, suppose from the statement 'once I finish my g16' that she does not, in fact, have full g16? Yes. You are making assumptions and calling them facts. I, on the other hand, realize the lack of information, and am using that to say 'such and such could be possible'. Even though it seems 'obvious' that it wouldn't be ideal to split up a g16 set, the armor is +3 in flawless shards, not the gear of somebody wealthy. It seems plausible that the gearset may not be complete. We were told it isn't complete. Thus this mostly g16 set could fulfill the requirements of the 0.83 base aps which my math demonstrated is minimum necessary to reach 0.91 aps with windshield, and thus get 5 hits instead of a 5 second sage stun.

Next, the target in question:

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As for my damage output, I can kill most people in NW that aren't OP, my bow's purge has screwed more than one person (most delicious moment: R9rr wiz fully buffed running with flag, gets purged, suddenly my damage goes from 500 dph to 4.8K crits and he dies)

and

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I saw him in Arch on my catshop. +6 G15 cube neck, R8 ring and R9 ring, perfect citrines (not immacs) and rest +10 (I think), so no, not up to your standards

You replied with this:

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

+10 r9 perf hp sharded wiz is a bit over 12k hp (even taking in to account of his 4 atk shards). It'll take 6 shots at 4.8k damage per shot to score the kill. Maybe the wiz was just so stunned that you managed to purge him that he stood there for 6 seconds... who knows.

So you have pvp experience... great. Your experience comes from fighting +3s... not so great. Why are you trying to pass on experience fighting +3 refines... when I can throw a rock in west and find someone that'll kill you and your oppoinent with a ****?

1. You stated a likely hp of 12k for the wizard.
2. You stated Walpurga was fighting +3, when the quote above clearly shows +6s and +10s on the wizard (otherwise a hp of 12k, the number you gave, would clearly be impossible).
3. If the wizard is wearing r8 ring and has cube neck only +6, and HP shards, we can assume a very low physical defense WHEN purged.
4. Debuffs on the wizard were? Were they stated? No. There could be tangling mire involved, possibly another debuff. Walpurga never even stated that she soloed the wizard.
5. You were rude as always.

Then we had somebody chime in with this:

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

While I agree with the rest of your post... *5 shots.

12k -> (1) 7.2k -> (2, tick) 12k -> (3) 7.2k -> (4) 2.4k -> (5) dead

And, yes, I can see someone who isn't expecting to be hit standing there for 5 shots, especially if they're stunned at the start. It happens often, especially in CTF when people forget they can't use their genie while carrying the flag.

to which you replied:

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

6 shots... even if you manage to pull off sage stun as the first shot... that'll leave more than enough time for def charm to activate and prevent the 5th shot from being a kill shot. with the addition of pot/insta pot at the end... it'll more likely be 7 shots.

Right then.

So we are assuming a situation where the gear could be flexible, where the archer purges and gets 4.8k crits, and does a sage stun at the beginning. You said it would have to be 6 shots or even 7. I then proceed to argue that it can be done in 5 hits like Jarkhen said, and that it can be accomplished even if we make assumptions about hp pot and defense charms going off. I gave two DIFFERENT gear setups that would meet the requirements; I didn't explicitly state that I was trying to guess what Walpurga's gear is. We don't KNOW that. However, it might look something like the link I posted above, and that would fulfill the math requirements.

To answer your most recent comeback:

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1. When someone says +3 g16 armor set... logically I would assume over 50% (possible) armor pieces being g16. not a 50/50 split between int/g16... also not a r8 set (especially one where the boot has a -int add).
2. For someone who can only afford a +3 g16 armor and g15 bow... thats some pretty nice double recasted int on the weapon. i personally drove up the price of rap/cannie by over 30% when i decided to buy all my 3rd cast in a single weekend... but i have yet manage to recast a double int on anything. maybe he is just luckier than me... but really... what are the chances.
3. when i said pot/insta pot. you managed to picked up on crab meat... but seems to have missed the "insta pot" part. while i'll give you that one since i can't myself remember the name of it... its the one where you do the divine quest and trade from npc... 1.5k hp/mp recover instantly.
4. lastly... i am pretty sure his gear set/speed is closer to my expectation than you -int build. stack on enough -int... sage can get 1aps without genie... but that's really not what we're talking about here.

1. We don't know the gear. See link.

2. I wasn't at that time guessing as to Walpurga's gear. See new link for more realistic pwcalc that meets same conditions.

3. If the 1500 hp pot activated at the beginning, 2 hits would still tick charm: 4.8k+4.8k-1.5k = 8.1k, well over 6k. But it wouldn't in the first place, because as we know auto potter doesn't go off when stunned. Three more hits to kill doesn't change.

IF the fifth hit didn't go off fast enough, a defense charm and 1500 hp pot might change it from five hits to six. 4.8k+4.8k+2.4k = 12k; we assume defense charm and 1500 pot activate before 5th hit, so that leaves target at precisely 1500 hp, which is one hit, crit or not, away from death, which would make it six hits.

Again, using the pure math calculations of 0.83 aps windshielded to 0.91, five hits complete within sage stun. In particular, if we throw in some real world conditions like ping and slowness of auto potter to respond sometimes, its very plausible that the fifth hit will arrive before stun is over, or do full damage even if it lands right after stun is done. After all, we've all died inside of absolute domain and ironguard before, have we not, which is essentially the same principle.

4. Again, we don't know the full gear, only that there is some g16, and not a complete set.

And once again, before you start telling how likely or unlikely it is (which the pwcalc I posted is decently realistic for a poor archer), remember, that doesn't matter. How likely depends on gear information we don't know, and conditions of lag that we can't possibly know. The real question was whether or not the situation we were arguing about is POSSIBLE. Give it up, it IS possible.

The whole discussion kinda deviated from Walpurga's original statement anyways, lol. She never said whether she was the only one hitting the archer. She never said the wizard had 12k hp, or that she crit 5 or 6 times in a row; that was information added in by YOU! I just took the conditions to the situation you supplied, and did the number crunching to see who was correct, you or Jarkhen, and it turns out Jarkhen was correct:

In a variety of gearsets and conditions involving auto potter and sage stun, five 4.8k crits COULD kill a 12k hp wizard.

How does it feel to be out-archered by a cleric hmmm. Do your research better next time.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

The gear I had was

http://pwcalc.com/1e473bf74643cb11

Now I have a non-**** roll on the cape and have http://pwcalc.com/ce6a572dc8ee17dd

Arrows are Distract arrows, which aren't in the calc.

Whether or not more people were unloading on the wiz I don't remember but there were very few people, probably just the two of us. As far as I can remember I'd already stunned and hit the wiz for a few times (fully buffed and doing little damage, so he ignored me for a bit) and chipped a chunk of HP before the purge occurred

So

1. Wizard was not at max HP
2. Wizard did not have high p.def
3. Wizard got purged at some point much lower than max
4. Wizard was not using def charms. That I can tell. I would have seen def charm animations if he had.
5. I mash instant take aim hotkey (My finger is permanently down on it)

@tsyren um, pan gu still gives 1% chan but it's probably just lag lol

TruWarz - Dreamweaver

sage archers shouldnt be trying to fight aps anyway esp with g16

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think you are still making some invalid assumptions, Kiyoshi. First of all, I was arguing for whether it was possible, not whether it had actually occurred.

My assumption is going off the common sense of the description.

+3 g16 with g15 purge bow.

You extrapolated 2 builds from that.

1. 4 piece of recasted rank armor with g16 hat/cape. twin -int weapon aside... won't that be called a r8 recast build instead of g16... i mean... seriously 4 piece r8 vs. 2 piece g16... and you are going to call it g16 build?
2. 3 piece of g16 and 3 piece of -int gear and call it g16 build. I guess I can work with that... although g16 won't be what i call that build. but lets now focus on the twin -int weapon. considering we already know the weapon has purge. i don't know how many purge -int x2 bow you saw before... but i doubt there is many. and yet... when someone mention recast purge bow... you automatically assume it has 2 -int.

Now which one of us have the invalid/overly optimistic assumptions? i am not arguing with you that 5 hit kill is no possible... i am saying that 5 hit kill is not possible with his build.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

4. lastly... i am pretty sure his gear set/speed is closer to my expectation than you -int build. stack on enough -int... sage can get 1aps without genie... but that's really not what we're talking about here.

Now the fat lady is singing and we can get to my final point.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The gear I had was
http://pwcalc.com/1e473bf74643cb11

we're both off on the exact build... and yet my common sense has brought me closer to his actual attack speed. i assumed he has one -int on bow and pangu for another -int... so i was off by two -ints. you the glass half full guy... wanted him to get a passive .83 attack speed and is off by six -ints.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How does it feel to be out-archered by a cleric hmmm. Do your research better next time.

If this is what it feels like to be out "out-archered by a cleric"... it feels pretty damn good. and more or less prove cleric... especially the ones that does not use common sense to extrapolate archer builds... have no reason to be in the archer forum.

.67 attack speed is 1.5 attack/second... factor in wind shield to get 1.35 attack/second. the three regular attack that you mention will take 4.05 seconds. leaving you less than 1 second to fill in 2 more hits. i have doubts (when factoring in lag) even the fastest plausible build demon archer can fill 2 hits in .95 seconds.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

Too many walls of text

tsyfall

PWI forums: Where math is extreme, egos are huge, and... you can faceroll other fellow posters theoretically via arguments.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Lol, nice way to attempt to dodge the bullet. The evidence presented by Walpurga wasn't there when I made my last post, and furthermore it isn't even relevant.
You are completely avoiding what I stated, that:
-five 4.8k crits could kill a 12k wiz from max hp in 5 seconds (COULD, this is a theoretical statement); you argued instead something completely different, that
-Walpurga could or did do this herself

This is just blatantly ridiculous, like most of what you said, because at no point until the post Walpurga just made did we know of the conditions Walpurga killed the wizard under, and whether she crit 5 or 6 times, or whether she had assistance, whether the wizard was carrying flag or afk or anything. You made up the 12k hp, and you made up 4.8 crits till death, and you made up the fact that she solo killed the wizard, and you said it would take 6 hits. BASED off that I argued it could be done in only 5 hits, inside of a sage stun, and I presented some builds showing that 0.83 aps in a variety of non-r9 gearsets was possible...this was THEORY you idiot, theory, and I demonstrated quite clearly that in theory, once again, 5 hits in under 5 seconds is quite doable in gear featuring some g16.

The first two builds I made were theoretical builds in no way trying to guess what Walpurga had as gear. Again, you completely are off the point I was making, which was to see if 5 hits in sage stun was possible in cheap gear which has some g16 (its possible). Am I repeating myself? Looks like I need to for your pitiful cranium to comprehend basic ideas such as this. The third build I presented was a look at a g16-heavy build that would feature 0.83 base aps, which Walpurga might be capable of having, since its not an expensive build. I wasn't presumptuous enough to try to extrapolate facts from assumptions about gear we haven't seen.

Now that we see how completely off the ball you were...

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

.67 attack speed is 1.5 attack/second... factor in wind shield to get 1.35 attack/second. the three regular attack that you mention will take 4.05 seconds. leaving you less than 1 second to fill in 2 more hits. i have doubts (when factoring in lag) even the fastest plausible build demon archer can fill 2 hits in .95 seconds.

1.5 attack per second *smirk*. You mean 1.5 seconds per attack... I guess? Somewhat in disbelief that an ARCHER would make such a simple mistake. No, wait, this is Kiyoshi... he'd never make basic mistakes about a p s...

0.67aps*1.1 = 0.737aps, PWI rounds this to 0.74 attacks per second
1second/0.74aps = 1.35 seconds per attack

Right.

Which is all verrry interesting except that you still never understood that the argument was theoretical, not what Walpurga was actually wearing. Somewhat like trying to target the cleric and hitting the barb instead, you shot off in completely the wrong direction. GG

Aeliah

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1.5 attack per second *smirk*. You mean 1.5 seconds per attack... I guess? Somewhat in disbelief that an ARCHER would make such a simple mistake. No, wait, this is Kiyoshi... he'd never make basic mistakes about a p s...

0.67aps*1.1 = 0.737aps, PWI rounds this to 0.74 attacks per second
1second/0.74aps = 1.35 seconds per attack

Right.

Which is all verrry interesting except that you still never understood that the argument was theoretical, not what Walpurga was actually wearing. Somewhat like trying to target the cleric and hitting the barb instead, you shot off in completely the wrong direction. GG

The evidence provided by him wasn't there when i made my statement... just like it wasn't there when you made your statement. You were trying to guess his build... so am i. And yet... i am able to extrapolate his gear build a lot better than you. sure... you can get me on my type... but guess what... even with the typo... most people would still understand what i am talking about since my numbers are correct. i was off by -.1 int on his build... and yet you manage to be off 3x of what i am off by.

everyone is capable of having everything... but its up to common sense to figure out what is the mostly likely build given limited data (something a certain cleric can't seem to gasp). I have 2 piece of g16 gear (hat/cape) and all 6 piece of 3rd cast r9. maybe instead of calling myself an r9 archer... i should start calling myself a g16 archer.

Jarkhen - Archosaur

tsyfall wrote: »

The thing is, I see this with archers who have pangu and skycovers.

A normal archer's stunning arrow I can actually time fortify by watching for the animation. I find this impossible with certain archers, as I see the animation the same time the stun lands.

Fairly certain you're experiencing some lag here, or just aren't recognizing the start of the stunning arrow animation. I have no trouble fortifying a stunning arrow, regardless of whether the archer has -chan gear or not.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Again arguing the wrong point, which was never about predicting Walpurga's gear, but ascertaining if 5 attacks of 4.8k could kill the 12k hp wizard...which, most notably, you don't mention in either of your last two posts. Clever enough to realize when you've lost an argument, but too stubborn to admit it, you've tried to redirect the reader's focus to a non relevant issue once again, but you don't have anybody fooled. Admit it, you were wrong. Discussion over, be graceful in defeat for once in your life.

Cheers,

Aeliah

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

I don't understand why there are so many walls of text when everything said in the walls can probably be articulated in like 3 sentences.


"I am right."
"You are stupid."
(And a third random idea to add some liiiiittle bit of variety)

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't understand why there are so many walls of text when everything said in the walls can probably be articulated in like 3 sentences.


"I am right."
"You are stupid."
(And a third random idea to add some liiiiittle bit of variety)

What was once a great thread degenerated into a moral defence of what walpurga said happened and one side calling bs the other defending and Walpurga sheepishly awaiting the juries decision providing evidence upon request. Ohwaitnvm there is no jury, aside from beating the opposition into surrender b:chuckle

In response to tsyfall I have accepted the fact that my pvp will never be as good as it can be unless I move next to the server to get a perfect ping. Timing fortify/faith/skills reactively is near impossible at my higher ping due to being in rainy ol england b:cry

Or am I over emphasising the difference it makes, on average ping is 250ms-350ms.. b:shocked

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

All I can say is I find 4.8k crits pretty high on R9 wizard. Granted its stated to be purged. Meh, in the end its more of a theoretical situation where she can drop said wizard, not exactly something realistic and repeatable. Heck, I feel like crying when playing my archer with n3+10 bow as I cant get trough anything relevant w/o spark that gets enemy attention in TWs. If it werent those sins I crit for 10k I would feel like swapping to N2 bow for purge <.<.

Oh yeah, my archer is currently using my sins full +10 aps set with N3 bow. Waiting on 5-7b before I pop everything on him, dont feel like doing chienkung transfer as I expect new gear coming out. aps set = missing attack levels of N3 set bonus and damn those armors are outdated. Did TW against wifey on archer, she is R9T3+5 and partially perfect citrine sharded on armors. Couldnt chain enough crits in row to drop her during sage stun. On other hand she could drop me in few hits with R9T3+10 bow so had to kite when stun ended <.<. Guess I`m trying to say, if you arent R9T3 archer, you really arent relevant at all on anything endgame related PvP and the culti path wont matter there. I kinda like demon better if you arent decked out, sage when you are.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Again arguing the wrong point, which was never about predicting Walpurga's gear, but ascertaining if 5 attacks of 4.8k could kill the 12k hp wizard...which, most notably, you don't mention in either of your last two posts. Clever enough to realize when you've lost an argument, but too stubborn to admit it, you've tried to redirect the reader's focus to a non relevant issue once again, but you don't have anybody fooled. Admit it, you were wrong. Discussion over, be graceful in defeat for once in your life.

Cheers,

Aeliah

My orginal post stating it take 6 shots to kill a 12k hp wiz was responding to Walpurga's below:
"I saw him in Arch on my catshop. +6 G15 cube neck, R8 ring and R9 ring, perfect citrines (not immacs) and rest +10 (I think), so no, not up to your standards, but a mile above my G16 +3 flawless standard."

my reply...
"+10 r9 perf hp sharded wiz is a bit over 12k hp (even taking in to account of his 4 atk shards). It'll take 6 shots at 4.8k damage per shot to score the kill. Maybe the wiz was just so stunned that you managed to purge him that he stood there for 6 seconds... who knows."

my first sentace stated the wiz should have over 12k hp. my second sentence listed the condictions... while my 3rd sentence included the pronoun "you" (highlighted for YOU). last time i checked, "you" is used to refer to the person or group of people that is being addressed. in this case i was responding to walpurga... and you is cleared used to address him. if i were have taken out the pronoun... it would have stated "Maybe the wiz was just so stunned that Walpurga managed to purge him that he stood there for 6 seconds... who knows." So anyone with a passable knowledge of the english langurage should be able to assume that my condictions was addressed to walpurga... and not some random or archers in general. and since my condictions were addressed to him (in this case him = walpurga for your clearity)... why would i not try to infer his gear.

There were no arguement regarding if an archer can hit 1aps or able to kill 12k hp robe with 4.8k damage. i... myself can easily go over 1aps and i am sage. and i also have killed many 12k robes. with the right gear... a sage can very possiblely go over 1aps without genie/rb. but that is not walpurge's gear.

tsyfall

On behalf of the PWI community:
I beg you to stop. Seriously.

We've heard both your arguments (not that we've wanted to in the first place) but eventually we have to put the toys away. Neither of you will agree, so let's agree to disagree. Please.