Wizard PVP guide to perfection

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide

As all wizards on PWI we all want to drop nukes and oneshot people but even after playing thousand of hours, PVP is different that PVE or TW.
I will ask Adroid to help us with his expertise in the arts of PK and analyze some short PVP videos if he has time and if he wants too.

The whole community including myself have much to learn from his experience and I beg of you Adroid to have a bit of time, as long as you play this game to take the videos posted and analyze them like you did with mine in the one bellow.

His analyzis even though a bit funny, was very helpful for me and his extended experience with a the wizzard class can help many understand the tips and tricks of PK. We've all seen his PK videos and it is very hard to replicate it exactly but his insight into our mistakes is valuable. I will post his reply to one of my videos and I will add more as time goes by, maybe 1-2 per week-end when i have more time to play, record, upload.

Originally Posted by Adroit - Lost City View Post
What you mentioned are simply descriptions of the classes, although res/buffs/disables on a cleric are fantastic.. I wouldn't consider them "broken" because other classes have fantastic skills too (eas get a ranged purge that has a chance to work on auto attacks, wiz have insane damage with undine + spark.. etc). I watched the first video in the linked thread (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2IOK...ature=youtu.be) and noticed a number of mistakes (some of which you mentioned in the video). I think it is difficult to judge class balance when either or both sides do not play optimally.

Fight 1 -
as you mentioned.. you should have went for the ep first, crazy not to when it can easily res whoever else you kill
your ep was using plume shell against 3 magic classes?
@0:38 you try to sutra spark an end game ep without undine and while he is at full hp? The sog popped up almost the same time as when you sutra'd him.. so that is pretty much unavoidable, but I still think it would have been wasted chi/genie spark with or without the sog.
@1:01, your cleric was getting focused and losing hp quick.. instead of healing themself or taking some defensive action, wield thunder a full hp psychic that is buffed? It is very likely he could have made it through that situation with just a couple wellsprings (guardian light or elemental shell or apoth could also have been used). He should not have died there. Also why doesn't he have res scrolls then it is clearly stated in your rules that they are allowed?
1:16 you stun yourself on sos for no reason

Fight 2 -
as you mention, you should have killed the ep first..
@2:58, you again stun yourself on sos.. had ages to see and react to it, really no excuse for that happening
@3:18 Arawin sleeps you then immediately wakes you with a plume shot? rofl
@3:22 you again stun yourself on sos.. and again that should have been easily avoidable
@3:51 you sutra spark Arawin when he is taking 10% damage.. no reason you shouldn't have seen that and held off ~10 more seconds.
@4:14, your ep tries to sog an immune target (wasn't even close to when immunity was going to end either)

Fight 3 -
as you mention.. sutra spark combo on a tidal'd sin is not a good idea
you might consider using sutra power apoth rather than IG some of the time, perfect example being @5:50.. it purifies you, doesn't require genie energy (fortify), and gets you immune faster. Most of the time 6 seconds is plenty enough to get through your next charm tick, and then any debuffs (such as bloodvow) are off, dots can't kill you, and you have more genie energy left over.

Fight 4 -
@7:13, you should have undined your target first.. spark alone on buffed targets is not very effective. You probably should have seen the immune before wasting spark too, but that was relatively close so it is understandable

Fight 5 -
@8:29, your target used dew.. why in the world didn't you switch targets..?

Also you don't seem to be using auto-pot, which seems crazy to me. And your fows were terrible.. you were trying to seal people that weren't even attacking.. and on more than one occasion missed a kill shot because you used fow instead. This post may come off as overly critical, but that is not the intent. I just do not agree with comment at the end "This is pretty much how fights should go", I think you and your team were not being nearly as effective as you could have been.. and the classes are relatively well balanced at end game gear and when everyone is equally skilled.

Toliman - Raging Tide

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide wrote: »

As all wizards on PWI we all want to drop nukes and oneshot people but even after playing thousand of hours, PVP is different that PVE or TW.
...

I don't want to "oneshot people".

mynameiswizy

where is the video ? has been removed?

can anyone watch it? b:question coz I cant

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide

mynameiswizy wrote: »

where is the video ? has been removed?

can anyone watch it? b:question coz I cant

http://youtu.be/p2IOKOKZybM

This is the link...

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqErfTY5JhA

Adroid, please take a look at this one when you have time and comment upon my noobishness.

Adroit - Lost City

I don't mind offering my opinion on your videos, but I don't really think that is the same as a guide. It would just be too tailored to one person, a guide is supposed to be made more general. Either way, I'm glad you feel that it helps, and I have a little down time right now, so...

It looks like this video was taken before my previous post, so it isn't surprising that many of the things are the same as the other video (not targeting ep first, questionable fow usage, no autopot, etc.).. so I'm just going to try to point out other things.

Fight 1 - (from this most recent video you linked)
@1:16 this may have been a misclick, but you spark Arawin without undine.. and don't even use any fire skills
@1:53 you spark the wiz with ep buffs w/o using undine first
@2:02 you get sutra sparked and don't react at all. You can easily deal with that with elemental shell, really cheap way to counter their 2 sparks + genie (and get a little chi)

Fight 2 -
@3:10 you extreme poison Dylena, really no reason to blow the genie energy on someone is that close to dying (and so squishy)
@4:08 your charm runs out, you don't put on a new one


One thing I've noticed in many of your videos is that you don't really conserve chi/genie energy. It seems like you run out quickly, and stay low. If you watch @3:20 again, you holy path after Arawin, and end up getting sog'd. Even if you hadn't gotten sog'd though, what would you do if you got there? You wouldn't have enough chi for sutra, you didn't have enough energy for spark.. and Arawin wasn't purged or one hit away from dying or anything like that. From so many other occasions, it is obvious that just undine -> gush -> pyro -> repeat is not going to finish him. There was no rush to get over there, your squadmates weren't there yet, and you even knew where Arawin wanted to be (by where you'd been fighting before so he could res his team).. you could have used that to your advantage and just sat over there building chi so you and your squad would be able to easily down him when he inevitably came back.

Because Arawin seems to be such an issue for you guys, a few things you might try to deal with an end game ep. Firstly, focus the ep first.. leaving an endgame ep unharassed is just about the worst thing you could possibly do. Second, drain his chi.. if you and lucifer used mo zun every 30 seconds.. you would make Arawin's life very difficult. You figure sog is already draining a spark every 30 seconds, drain another spark with mo zun and he'll be starving for chi 1 minute into the fight. That means he'll either need to stop sog'ing you guys, or be forced to genie/apoth for chi.. which is a win either way for your team. Thirdly, if you don't have anyone that can purify sleep on your team, with a little coordination you can have someone drop squad and wake whoever is slept up and quickly rejoin again. Lastly, probably your best bet for ninja dropping Arawin would be to derp around with regular skills trying to get him to just above 50% hp, when you have poked him down to there.. then do your undine sutra spark combo. If the first hit crits, you are almost guaranteed a bypass.. and even if it doesn't, your next few hits have a second opportunity to finish him.

There are a few other things I was thinking of pointing out, but I fear I'm already giving too much information at one time.. so those will have to wait for another time.

mynameiswizy

I find this thread interesting

RyougiShiki - Raging Tide

dat wall of text .. why so srs f:sweat

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

I'm not even a wizzy and I love this thread. b:dirty

Moar pls

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm not even a wizzy and I love this thread. b:dirty

Moar pls

Adroit is pretty smart. Any fun way to enjoy this game is ...fun. This week-end I will have more time for PVP videos. Hopefully more will come.

Failure is the path to success. Maybe not mine but...b:bye

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide

http://youtu.be/5DynxyykDVo

Adroit, check this one out when you have time.

Adroit - Lost City

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide wrote: »

http://youtu.be/5DynxyykDVo

Adroit, check this one out when you have time.

I'd prefer to look at new videos, much of my criticism is the same as it was for the previous two videos I viewed (e.g., should have focused the eps first). I feel like I'd just be repeating myself

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I'd prefer to look at new videos, much of my criticism is the same as it was for the previous two videos I viewed (e.g., should have focused the eps first). I feel like I'd just be repeating myself

Okay, these days I am really busy in RL, I'll try to get some time for the game but...as soon as I can, I will. I encourage all players who play wizards to fraps and share.

U_Sasuke - Sanctuary

lol did you guys opened a 'how to learn a mage' academy?
with spell being the student and adroit being a teacher, kinda funny b:laugh

deathbytuna

they 105 still asking questions..pathetic

Riverwell - Archosaur

deathbytuna wrote: »

they 105 still asking questions..pathetic

To be fair, asking about pvp at 105 isn't that bad (especially since he's from a pve server). It's completely different than what you've been doing in instances and whatnot.

Sister_Warui - Raging Tide

deathbytuna wrote: »

they 105 still asking questions..pathetic

To be fair, asking about pvp at 105 isn't that bad (especially since he's from a pve server).

What in the hell is wrong with people? Let me guess, tuna man, you've got a level 105 toon you play as well, and you're the grand freakin' master of it? The best there ever was. No? Shut up. Just because you hit a level doing PvE related things doesn't mean you suddenly know how to PvP! Dude, do you even white name? first of all, with the kind of gears he's got, PvE isn't something he can, like, test out new ideas on. PvE is where he laughs as the hordes fail to tick the charm of a robe class toon, right before he 1 shots it. and even if he DIDN'T have gears set up specifically for PK, it still wouldn't help! Bosses in PWI have a high HP pool ,the same 2-3 moves, and no mobility. Which in no way transfers over to high level PvP.

Also, River darling, wtf? Are people STILL dragging this PvE VS. PvP server thing through the freaking mud? Haven't you beaten the wrong dead horse about it enough yet? This isn't the first 6 months the game came out! waaaayyyyyyyyy back when I was making the move from PW-MY to here, I made a Veno on Harshlands, and was all about the PvP. When RT came out, I am NOT ashamed to say I made the move over to RT, and rolled an EA. You know what difference I noticed? None. Not even then. About the same amount of people, about the same amount of people with balls enough to out of SZ instead of porting everywhere, the same amount of QQ when you died. The only major differences I guess were the scale of TW's, and the fact that instead of JUST complaining about SZ, PvE servers also made fun of people in blue name. Hell, I was in a faction with Spell himself, way back when he was doing it!

And on a personal note about the thread, not everyone learns the same. For example, I can't learn (i'll censor it myself here, mods) watching videos, but if someone watches my fight live and gives me pointers, that mistake normally doesn't happen again. I dunno why, I just gotta be in the action. Point is, people learn differently. And if you don't CONTINUE learning, even when you hit 105, then you're going to be a fail. Time constraints are also a big deal. Spell used to lead a faction back when it was one of the top TW factions. He had more to do in game than go out and practice PK. I didn't always agree with his methods back then but...It's not like he stopped doing his duties entirely. Now that he's free of some of those, his off time in game can be spent in PK. I HOPE he's trying to learn from the best, or from multiple people if not just adroit.

tl;dr Get off your high horses, scrubs, and take the thread for what it is. A chance for you all to learn.

inb4: omg you're a noob and a liar your join date on this toon is only a year old! :O!

PS: Sorry Spell and adriot for the thread jacking. I'll shut up now.

PPS: Archer is better! >:]

U_Sasuke - Sanctuary

Hey Adroit, give me some tips too on how to be a perfect wizard bro.

Adroit - Lost City

U_Sasuke - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hey Adroit, give me some tips too on how to be a perfect wizard bro.

1. Deflate your ego a few steps
2. Learn from your mistakes instead of making excuses
3. ???
4. Profit

U_Sasuke - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

1. Deflate your ego a few steps
2. Learn from your mistakes instead of making excuses
3. ???
4. Profit

I thought u would tell me to go sage, and BIDS ppl, and pray for a critical hit. b:laugh

Adroit - Lost City

U_Sasuke - Sanctuary wrote: »

I thought u would tell me to go sage, and BIDS ppl, and pray for a critical hit. b:laugh

Nope b:bye

U_Sasuke - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Nope b:bye

Did you missed me though? Did you? Did You?

mynameiswizy

to ALL : another wiz video please b:nosebleed

PvP -> Adroit
TW -> _CurseD

Riverwell - Archosaur

Sister_Warui - Raging Tide wrote: »

Also, River darling, wtf? Are people STILL dragging this PvE VS. PvP server thing through the freaking mud? Haven't you beaten the wrong dead horse about it enough yet? This isn't the first 6 months the game came out! waaaayyyyyyyyy back when I was making the move from PW-MY to here, I made a Veno on Harshlands, and was all about the PvP. When RT came out, I am NOT ashamed to say I made the move over to RT, and rolled an EA. You know what difference I noticed? None. Not even then. About the same amount of people, about the same amount of people with balls enough to out of SZ instead of porting everywhere, the same amount of QQ when you died. The only major differences I guess were the scale of TW's, and the fact that instead of JUST complaining about SZ, PvE servers also made fun of people in blue name. Hell, I was in a faction with Spell himself, way back when he was doing it.

I think you need to calm down.

First, I was making the same point you are, that being 105 doesn't necessarily mean you know how to pvp. And I did not state that being on a pvp server makes you better than if you were on a pve server.

The only reason I mentioned it, was to further my point that on a pve server it is completely possible that you don't pvp until 105 if or when you want to (emphasizing the rudeness of criticizing his pvp skills based on his level) whereas on a pvp server you might have been forced to have some experience while leveling up.

I don't care how big of a difference it is between servers, I wasn't comparing the two in skill. So Warui, darling, please don't bite my head off for mentioning what server he was on.

U_Sasuke - Sanctuary

Hey Adroit, did u come up with something new and unique for a mage class yet, or do I need to come out of retirement and come up with something new for our wizard community, so that you can copy it again.

Adroit - Lost City

U_Sasuke - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hey Adroit, did u come up with something new and unique for a mage class yet, or do I need to come out of retirement and come up with something new for our wizard community, so that you can copy it again.

I haven't copied anything from u silly b:chuckle

U_Sasuke - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I haven't copied anything from u silly b:chuckle

mann before u met me, all u ever did was BIDS ppl. u should be thankful that u met me b:thanks b:kiss

come play dota 2 with me, all about skills ;D

U_Sasuke - Sanctuary

mynameiswizy wrote: »

to ALL : another wiz video please b:nosebleed

PvP -> Adroit
TW -> _CurseD

cursed doesn't play anymore, he was the proest tw wiz I ever saw though. I remember when he made his first TW video, I was like zomg!

Adroit - Lost City

U_Sasuke - Sanctuary wrote: »

mann before u met me, all u ever did was BIDS ppl. u should be thankful that u met me b:thanks b:kiss

come play dota 2 with me, all about skills ;D

If you say so b:cute

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide

http://youtu.be/Y5I6cvP951E

Adroit, check this small one. I got 2-3 more coming, one vs 1 BM that kinda put me in big trouble.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary

The AD IG 3 spark combo was fearsome b:chuckle

why not just focus on one thing at a time? FoW it can accomplish more.