sugest me an aps alt char

MyMate - Dreamweaver

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

well, go do full WS or Lunar run on a NON R9rrr+10 squad (with a barb tank), see how long that will take.
then go do the same run with 2 sins and 2 BMs cleric and barb and see how long that run will take.
APS has its place in game and will have. The good thing is that it does not have that much place in PvP anymore.
I can make anywhere between 4-7mil/hour farming TT (not 3-x). No charm, no pots, about 50k repairs every hours or so.

To OP:
- first, that wiz of yours can farm WS pretty well I would say. Soloing pavs should be a breeze, sell recast/ craft services. It's a slower market but it moves...
- if you want a aps char to farm TT go for a Sage sin. it's the most expensive of them, because you need a tome and -0.1 or 2x -0.05 weapon but in my book it's the best option. Get Sage BP, dagg mastery and a G15 dagg with double interval & 20 attk levels/Sacc/GoF and you can roll. Why I say sage? 25% damage reduction from spark.This is pretty important farming FC or low lvl TTs until you get enough HP/survival to tackle the 3-x bosses. 15/15 blessing + sage spark + sage BP gives you so much survival you really won't believe what you can actually tank/do with that sin even with just a G15 with 2 ints. G16 2xint would be ideal but yeah, those are helluva expensive/rare/whatever. here's a tip: start farming warsong to roll a dagger for 2x -int. When you get it roll a sage sin

Barb is safest aps alt of them all, BM is in the midle but Sin is full out damage. I have BM aps, Barb aps(deleted) and Sin. All demon (cheap aps cultivation). Sin is a true farming machine, the rest are wanabe replacements. Don't listen to anyone who advises you otherwise, they just don't want competition.

Just wanna point out that it's much harder to get 2x -int on G15 then it is on G16.. Adding a rare add (GoF/20 attack lvl) to the mix and you can reroll forever. Only reason it would be "easier" to get then 2x -int on G16 is that it's a lot easier to just buy raps then to farm badges. Doing that to get an inferior weapon seems pretty stupid to me.

Then again, you did say "get G16 and farm WS for rerolling it" so you're forgiven

As for OP's question, get a Demon Sin.. If you just want an APS alt to solo TT/FC I don't really see the point of spending a fortune on OP gear. The "normal" (=old) demon APS build (~+7 gear/+10 wep (maybe +10 helm)) will do just fine.

MyMate - Dreamweaver

DarkEvion - Harshlands wrote: »

everyone hates sins

Only place I've ever came across actual Sin haters is on the forum.. Are they all on Harshlands? xD

DarkEvion - Harshlands

MyMate - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Only place I've ever came across actual Sin haters is on the forum.. Are they all on Harshlands? xD

Apparntly, you'll see people do bh or something and be likes "LF More for BH Abba, NO SINS"

Ursa - Dreamweaver

MyMate - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Just wanna point out that it's much harder to get 2x -int on G15 then it is on G16.. Adding a rare add (GoF/20 attack lvl) to the mix and you can reroll forever. Only reason it would be "easier" to get then 2x -int on G16 is that it's a lot easier to just buy raps then to farm badges. Doing that to get an inferior weapon seems pretty stupid to me.

Then again, you did say "get G16 and farm WS for rerolling it" so you're forgiven

well, to go for G16 2x interval....takes 20 badges + EoO + 1 mil for each roll. that's more than 3 warsong runs + 3 mil for each re-roll. It is worth it if you get lucky to hit 3 int like a friend of mine and then you're 5 aps sage sin but the chances of that.....
On a g15 the re-roll costs 7 raps . With his gear and a decent squad he can farm about 12-14 reroll / NW so at least in theory it would be faster to get. And once 2x -int is on the dagger pretty much anything else is good, +20 attk levels is the one I'd take for the constant dmg/bp heal but hey, anything is better than nothing.

DarkEvion - Harshlands

Why are we all Hello world condoms?

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

Can you invoke while prone? Free shards? -If you go with that one: everything in this game is free.

Let me give you a quick lesson on gear changing: I have Shapeshift on 3 and weapon swap (Axe) on CTRL-Q and weapon swap (fist) on CTRL-E on my BM and intend to do the same with barb. In case you didn't know, if you open the K menu for hotkeys you can shift things around. I have all my important gearswap/skills on hotkey.

In order to Invoke (once I finish my barb, which I can't yet since I'm trying to gear my archer and BM to start farming FC) I have to do the following: CTRL-Q - 3 - SHIFT-F, i.e. a total time of max. 2 seconds + time to channel/cast invoke if I'm sluggish that day. FYI on my BM (no CE on genie cuz too lazy to finish a proper PVE genie) I start with fists, 2 - CTRL-Q - Press HF (mouse already there) - CTRL-E - 1, to Cyclone Heel, swap axes, HF, swap fists, start autoattack so swap weapon-shapeshift (which channels instantly)-invoke isn't even a lot.

Incomparable shards are FREE from FB99 weeklies which a barb can do with something like an FC gold poleaxe and TT90. I have like 12 (? I don't remember; one of these days I'll go and turn ithem into shards) emblems on my archer and weekly FBs just started to catch on.


Have you bothered to make a comparable assassin in the calc? Did you notice all the points you wasted on dex could be alotted to vit on an assassin (also silly: http://pwcalc.com/9c85201a59145f1c ). Did you notice you put shapeshifting intensity buff on? -lolwut?!


1. Too pro; full vit min. dex sin

2. Let me teach you how to use PWCalc to apply barb self-buffs. See how the calc doesn't apply the buff from Shapeshifting Intensity until yo actually go into tiger? Crit buff included.

3. Sin isn't self-buffed. If you're using buff pots then you get level 10, not sage, buffs. So, crappier def (Barb can finish up and +7 a cube mdef neck, maybe shard sapphires once refines are over +7)


Did you notice that there are other factors to survival like ribstrike, status evasion, stealth, evasion, mdef, faster killing (snakefist), paint heals?

Can't stealth past mobs bro; Mob count for all the useful instances (TT, Lunar, Warsong; Mobless warsong is far from soloable)

Snake dies in 2 sparks anyways and you'd be running with a squad

What you've done is taken a far inferior dd and pointed to it saying: see!: better survivability while ignoring the fact that all you have to put into your build to keep up on dd: the assassin could likewise put into defense / hp.

When it comes to dd: you don't have subsea, powerdash, wolf emblem either. -There's a lot of dd to compensate for there. Meanwhile the aps barb sacrifices AoE (amageddon especially).

Oh look. Another guy that seriously things Arma is all there is to a barb. BTW, I have seen less than 10 barbs (all vit) ever drop arma in PVE. Most of them were top-tier pro catabarbs. Most of your precious vit barbs do nothing but gather mobs, roar and let the DDs tank mobs in BB. That's assuming they aren't dead because they have pdef ornaments when pulling.

As for other survival methods...evasion is ****; debuff evasion, sure. That's nice. More paint heals? Devour, gg. 15 atk level debuff on top of that lol.

Did I say barbs were top tier DDs? Nope; what I said was that for OP, who is clearly not filthy rich and able to gear a pro sin out of pocket, will probably do better with a tankier aps class like an aps barb that doesn't require as many refines to be good; i.e. one that can start paying off the initial investment and start making money for maybe an OP +12 farmsin.


Btw: Who in this game would seriously imbue incomparable shards?

MY. *****. THEY. FREE.

Not everyone can just cash for full G11+ shards

On HT, dunno about others, but Citrine Gems are only ~20m. 20m can be made in a light day of play. Seeing a socket wasted on an incomparable is just beyond reasonable for me.

I can +7 one piece of armor and +5 another on a decent day with 20mil, which pays for some mirages and DQ for event gold. Will need some chips and dip too sometimes. Incomparables are free. Free is good. Ever done any sort of Econ/business? Lower cost = better especially when incomparables are just fine for anything. Don't need citrine gems or vit stones for PVE. Even flawless/immaculate is great

I could understand lower shards because of less loss to replace, but that's just sitting at an uncomfortable spot.

'Scuse me I don't cash; I'm fine with free shards

Is aps farming even viable anymore? If I were to farm lunar, eden, abaddon, sot, warsong, for example: I'd do it on mystic. The game simply doesn't appeal to aps toons anymore and I'm abhoring the common derpa derpa aps mentality I see that typically slows the whole squad down.
If I wanted to farm Lunar I get on my archer and WC "free full lunar my EOD(s) pm class" lol

Seriously, this guy is so close minded, I imagine him as some kind of cranky old man (or little kid) that has tolerance issues and gets pissed everytime he sees something that doesn't agree with what he thinks is right lol.

And OP wanted an aps toon. Barb works as a cheap aps toon and can do all sorts of things sins can't do at a much lower refine (read: pull, tank pulls, aoe, devour and invoke, using solid shield + def skills to take significantly less damage, most of which is physical anyways). In general, much more versatile playstyle than sins/BMs

thumbs

MyMate - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Only place I've ever came across actual Sin haters is on the forum.. Are they all on Harshlands? xD

I know an archer that hates sins so much he won't level his own. I pointed out to him that archers were as annoying because they tend to pull mobs away from melee when they erupt, cause some bosses to spam aoe, etc. So what I see sins doing now? - Knife throw mobs pulling them backwards in instance and away from melee (which they freaking are so they should know better).

It's not sins I hate: it's bad players.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Seriously, this guy is so close minded, I imagine him as some kind of cranky old man (or little kid) that has tolerance issues and gets pissed everytime he sees something that doesn't agree with what he thinks is right lol.

And OP wanted an aps toon. Barb works as a cheap aps toon and can do all sorts of things sins can't do at a much lower refine (read: pull, tank pulls, aoe, devour and invoke, using solid shield + def skills to take significantly less damage, most of which is physical anyways). In general, much more versatile playstyle than sins/BMs

while I generally agree, shards are not really free; first you have the fee to make and then you have the time to farm them; granted, sot/aba is super fun compared to farming tt but still, I'd put a price tag of at least 10m per shard. I think it's a pretty good point tbh, cheap enough to shard a set for 120m and not feel ripped of because 75hp is a pretty huge improvement comapred to 40 from flawless XD

regarding thumbs visuals, I always had the image of a cranky old lady whose cat was killed by some kid's shuriken hence the aps hate.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Fee to turn in the 3 crushed emblems for the incomparable shards is 1.5 million.

If you don't already have a high income farming toon (and it sounds like the OP doesn't) then this is a much better bargain than citrine gems

thumbs

Even poorly equipped players can farm decent by doing what others don't like to do. I spent ~4 hours last night farming mats for 13 Essence of Nature. I also acquired over a hundred of each valuable herbs, and some mob drops. People are too lazy to pick up their own drops as well, and would probably appreciate you being round up bate for the mobs they're killing. You can also stick a toothpick in the pick up button and park next to Head Hunter for a while to get decent income.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Fee to turn in the 3 crushed emblems for the incomparable shards is 1.5 million.

If you don't already have a high income farming toon (and it sounds like the OP doesn't) then this is a much better bargain than citrine gems

Not really a bargain considering the time it consumes, and you're left with shards that won't help you much to get to the comfortable ~13k hp you can tank bh sot/aba /metal/lunar, etc with.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

The difference between 24*citrine gems and 24*incomparable citrine shards is a whole 960 HP. Whoopty-do.

The coin cost (disregarding opportunity cost, because different people have different opportunity costs) is (using your value of 20 million for a citrine gem) 444 million, which pays for a lot of refines.

thumbs

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The coin cost (disregarding opportunity cost, because different people have different opportunity costs) is (using your value of 20 million for a citrine gem) 444 million, which pays for a lot of refines.

You *might* be able to get from +10 to +12 on a single item with that, and that's only if it were the case. The yield would be around 550HP. 5 Citrine Gems would get you that much, and far cheaper.

While it was suggest that the actual cost (labor involved + price) of incomparable shard would be around 10m; the actual value is closer to 4m. This is why I don't bother with the weekly unless it's just for something to do. Untradeable incomps would be worthless to me unless they can by npc'd.

WannaBM - Archosaur

You compare them with +12 refenment now. When you compare them with a +10, obviously the +10 will win by a landslide

Lets take the refines from the G16 LA hat. Adding roughly the cost and providing a HP/coin figure:

5: +343
6: +453..... 10m........11 HP/m
7: +597..... 18m.........8 HP/m
8: +780..... 30m.........6 HP/m
9: +1023....30m.........8 HP/m
10: +1338..30m.........10 HP/m
11: +1740..140m........3 HP/m
12: +2250..250m........2 HP/m

When we look at shards its more difficult for me as im not good with those prices:

7: +40.....200k.........200 HP/m
8: +50........1m..........10 HP/m
9: +62........3m............6 HP/m
10:+75......10m............2 HP/m
11:+115....20m............3 HP/m
12:+150.....??

I guess thats why we all use Flawless/Immaculate before refining beyond +10

thumbs

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

You compare them with +12 refenment now. When you compare them with a +10, obviously the +10 will win by a landslide

Lets take the refines from the G16 LA hat. Adding roughly the cost and providing a HP/coin figure:

5: +343
6: +453 10m
7: +597 18m
8: +780 30m
9: +1023 30m
10: +1338 30m
11: +1740 140m
12: +2250 250m

I did mention earlier about the ~13k hp sweet spot for a farm toon. In order to reach that spot with incomparables on many classes: you're going to pay more in the long run. I prefer gems and +10 refines to incomparables and +12 refines. I'm gonna stop at that because people using incomparables will drive price of gems down for me. so =P

WannaBM - Archosaur

thumbs wrote: »

I did mention earlier about the ~13k hp sweet spot for a farm toon. In order to reach that spot with incomparables on many classes: you're going to pay more in the long run. I prefer gems and +10 refines to incomparables and +12 refines.

I would advise against using that kind of money on +11 refinements of G11/12 shards on farming toons. Just make it a barb and/or stat vit to get your desired HPs

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

I would advise against using that kind of money on +11 refinements of G11/12 shards on farming toons. Just make it a barb and/or stat vit to get your desired HPs

http://pwcalc.com/4e63ef07b9d05434 b:avoid

WannaBM - Archosaur

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/4e63ef07b9d05434 b:avoid

Yup life is cheap and easy for a barb. http://pwcalc.com/23850a117b4f5a2d

Sure i do almost 20% less dmg and have 10% less crit chance. But i at least i spend half a billion less on gear

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Yup life is cheap and easy for a barb. http://pwcalc.com/23850a117b4f5a2d

Sure i do almost 20% less dmg and have 10% less crit chance. But i at least i spend half a billion less on gear

b:laugh hey you have more buffs b:avoid

best i could do http://pwcalc.com/074b71c989f689e6

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

So i herd u liek poverty builds