Cool Story-2 without naming and shaming .

Longknife - Harshlands

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And this just made me lmao. Properly supported Assassins can be game changing with their ability to quickly eliminate opposing DDs and support, and if played well, can out live many members of the team.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore. :C

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

He also thinks tide spirit is a necessary skill to use, and apparently the only skill demon psys have b:laugh I barely ever use tide spirit... like, EVER... I have plenty of other options and yes, a genie set up appropriately to being a demon psy (considering some people seem to think demon psys just seal themselves with expel... just lol... my genie dun have expel)... And I do just fine in nw, tw etc etc...

No the point is....

What advantage do demon psys have over sages if you're NOT using Tide Spirit? I'm not calling it neccesary to win, I'm calling it's involvement neccesary for Demon to be more valuable than Sage. so if it's not involved, what's left?

The only obvious one is Sandburst Blast's debuff is nice. Aqua Cannon is also nice but Aqua Cannon is pretty moot in TW. The claim was "OMG DEMON PSYS KILL WAAAAAAAAAY QUICKER/EASIER." Ok, how? How do they kill "WAAAAY QUICKER" when all I'm seeing is 2% more crit and a single earth debuff that only procs 20% of the time? Sure as hell isn't Landslide given that that's a massive positioning issue in and of itself, let alone it's chances to proc. And you just said you don't use Tide Spirit that much.

So why go Demon? What the hell does Demon do better than Sage aside from Tide Spirit? Where's all this amazing damage coming from if it's not Tide Spirit? It's a simple matter of choosing the best of two options, and the ONLY thing demon supporters cling to is Tide Spirit, which as I've said, is suicidal when everyone and their mother with a brain knows to AD/IG/Dew/kite/run/stun/what-have-you when you use it.

It's not about you doing "just fine" or not; before culti we both had the exact same skills and obviously we both survived, so either culti is doable. But it IS about taking the best of both options and finding your max potential. So what about demon has better potential when you discount Tide Spirit and barely use it?

Well being I'm just looked at as an idiot f:naughty according to many on the forums because I chose to NOT have r9rr gear (Im r8r because r8r can be customized, jungle belt, t2 nirvy helm & cloak), NOT to have the purify proc on my end game weapon (Im warsoul recast so people can not qq about the purify proc and because I know other classes do not need it and therefore I know I do not need it), and NOT to go sage psy (Im demon, because it fit my playstyle)... When the reasons are I do not need to choose those options as they do not fit MY playstyle nor do I need the most OP gears to beat those that DO NEED such gears...

Ladies and Gentleman, a demon Psychic.

Longknife - Harshlands

Let's write a lot and actually say nothing at all. You literally just needlessly copy-pasted the entire skill list and then made a baseless claim that "demon iz moar fast paced skillz cuz i typed many wordz." Then you gave a speech about how the heart of the cards and friendship will overcome mathz and science.


I'll ask again: what, aside from Tide Spirit, gives you reason to go demon? What helps raise damage output significantly aside from Tide Spirit? Because unless there's something I'm missing, a sage is dealing 5% more damage consistently while the demon only crits 2% more. Sage deals 1/20th more damage while demon crits 1/50th more frequently. See where I'm going with this? And this is only in regards to the claim that demon's damage output is superior (with or without Tide), let alone if that superior margin is worth the loss to defense, chi, utility and support capabilities.


So what are these "skills" that are so hard to name that make demon hit waaaay harder, aside from Tide Spirit?

Only skills that come to mind are Aqua Cannon, Landslide (both of which have positioning issues tied to them) and Sandburst, and they all have modest proc rates.

tsyfall

A modest proc rate? Even a modest proc rate can change a lot when an even fight can drag on for 10+ minutes. The longer people fight, the more advantage demon has, because over time they get more and more opportunities for those magical procs to work.

Which brings me back to my original point. A demon psychic has more advantageous "luck-based" setups. Endgame, luck is going to be a major factor in similarly geared, similarly skilled fights and group PvP. Thus you see more of the "1 in 5" sort of skills working, and sage's "1 in 1 all day" skills go down in importance.

Since you seem so quick to stereotype me as an assassin, I'll speak to you as an assassin.

Let's say I can only kill someone by finishing them off with a 10k hit.
Now let's say Warsoul gives me a 4k normal hit and R9S3 gives me a 3k normal hit.

Sure, with a 50% crit rate Warsoul is going to hit 8k quite a lot on my target. But that stable dps can't cut it.

Now look at R9. 50% crit, 20% zerk. I'm going to be hitting a lot of 6ks - nonfactor. But that magical zerk crit - that 10% wonder that has a "modest proc rate" - that's the thing that's going to hit 12k and meet my original requisite of 10k.

I'm pretty much done arguing about demon psychics, each to their own <_< This discussion is going to degenerate into a discussion about why sage spark looks better than demon spark, sooner or later.

Since I do main a sin, @Longknife -

Have you ever heard of a sin being useful in group PK? No? Is that because you've never met a good one? Seriously, I've heard of good sins from pretty much everywhere except Harshlands. If you could direct me to one you consider decent please let me know.

On a more serious point:

Assassins are actually important in group PvP.

A well played sin typically doesn't go after big targets like a psychic does. They go after the little guys and pretty much 2shot anyone that doesn't have on-par gear with crits.

An assassin has exceptional economy of movement, having a speed skill, an antistun speed skill, two teleports, and holy path. They also happen to have Tidal, the best anti-debuff skill in the game. An assassin can basically catch any high-priority target that kites in the game. Any.

An assassin can lock pretty much any player and can work around Purify Proc by sealing/keeping up as they kite. An assassin has access to every single control skill in the game and can utilize them as often as they'd like without any cost in overall chi throughout the fight. They can also damage debuff people to hell with a skill that is basically the fish version of demon HF.

An assassin can tank exceptionally well. Having resisted all HFs, purges, poisons, and stuns to hell, they can promptly triple spark (multiple times in a row) and sage spark Sinvoke. Did I mention sins like to kite as well?

And you're telling me that an assassin can't be important in group PvP?

Oh and this is for Bhavy. I'm a pretty bad sin, but not as bad as your so-called hero.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

Sage Spells/Skills
Demon Spells/Skills

Soul of Vengeance
Reflection Costs No Mana - great if you enjoy buffing barbs
+4% Soulforce added as reflection damage - much more appropriate for damage output

Landslide
Range to cast +3 meters - great for pve
30% chance to +50% additional crit rate for 4 seconds - actually useful in pvp

Aqua Cannon
30% chance to immobilize targets for 3 seconds
50% chance to deal +4518.8 water damage to all targets over 6 seconds

Diminished Vigor
+1 second to time till hp charm ticks again - apparently sage psys like this skill, i guess cause they actually need that extra second to kill barbs? demon psys somehow have no problem without it
-5% healing skills effects & -10% pots heal effects

Empowered Vigor
-1 second to time till hp charm ticks again
+5% healing skills effects & +10% pots heal effects - usually this is used on yourself to save time of extra casting and goes nicely with demon bubble of life

Soul of Stunning
+1 second stun time per 4000 soulforce (normally per 5000 soulforce) - no wonder sage psys argue about this skill so much...
+1 second stun time

But look at the alternative with shared cd...

Soul of Retalliation
Heals caster 15% Max Hitpoints
Reflects 60% Soulforce as damage (from 50% Soulforce) - no wonder demon psys dont care about stun as much except in few situations... this alone can one shot people

Glacial Shards
+2 second immobilize time (to 6 seconds total, from 4 seconds) - so sage gains 2 seconds to immobilize
+15% chance to immobilize - while a demon has more chance to immobilize

Sandburst Blast - this skill... i use it to reduce accuracy... L.10 has that, the sage/demon aspect of it is just bonus.
+2 meter aoe (to 10 meters, from 8 meters)[/COLOR] - hits more of a group for damage
20% chance to decrease Earth Resists 20% for 8 seconds

Soul of Silence
Silence effect increased to 5 seconds, from 3 seconds - again... 2 seconds more
Chance of Silence +20% (1.2x) chance from initial chance - vs more chance to proc?

Soulburn
+2 seconds duration of effect to 10 seconds (from 8 seconds) = 10 sec effect, 20 sec before can cast again
-5 seconds till cooldown = 8 sec effect, 17 sec before can cast again - demon throws this out more than sage, and thanks to the majority of psys being sage, most people do not see the next one coming

Red Tide
50% chance to cost only 1 spark (-1 from 2 sparks) - who cares
+20% increased bleed damage to 1.2x Soulforce (from 1x Soulforce) - rather have more damage

Earth Vector
50% chance to cost 0 spark (-1 from 1 spark) - again who cares
+2 meter aoe (to 8 meters, from 6 meters) - bigger area stunned...

Psychic Will - only thing this is good for is the purify proc, again, level 10 has that.
+2 second immune to physical damage duration (to 10 seconds from 8)
20% chance to cost 0 spark (-1 from 1 spark)

so we are back to +5% damage base vs crit... all depends on if you stack your crits enough... you being r9rr... you can not afford to lose gear pieces to stack sick crit rates... so good thing you are sage

Aqua Spirit
+5% increase of water spells damage (+25% from +20%)
+1% to crit rate

Earthen Spirit
+5% increase of earth spells damage (+25% from +20%)
+1% crit rate

so try again

PsychicTuna - Harshlands

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wall'o'text.

Where's them videos at!

Apostasy - Raging Tide

Ya know what... i had my fix of **** now... ya'all can stuff it till another time b:shutup
I actually do have more important things to tend to b:bye till next time b:victory

Desdi - Sanctuary

Well, I don't think listing the skills like that is a good idea because a lot of things have to do with playstyle.
Saying things like "who cares" if Red Tide had 50% not to consume a spark etc. someone might actually want and like that, you know?

I think Sage Psychics shine in TW because they can offer decent support to the squad and TW is very goal-driven and dependent on the performance of the squad (as well as the faction altogether). It's probably also effective in situations like NW but I don't know how NW is nowadays since the last update with the new map.

I can see Demon Psychics having an advantage in general PK and 1v1 situations though but my point still stands; the person behind the toon matters the most as are the gears. Someone who can take full advantage of their Demon skills will be more effective than the Sage Psychic who doesn't know how to properly set up a combination or utilise its strong points and vice versa.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Psychic Will - only thing this is good for is the purify proc, again, level 10 has that.
+2 second immune to physical damage duration (to 10 seconds from 8)
20% chance to cost 0 spark (-1 from 1 spark)

wait what?

Unholly - Morai

This train has been so derailed its on a whole different set of train tracks.

My Cultivation Choice is BIGGER than your cultivation choice.
Ohhh and my dadz car is faster than your dads.

Okay so my points/thoughts:

Demon seems better for 1v1 situations if you know the class you are going to fight.

Sage seems better for group pk where you can be supportive to your group, though if unfocused potentially you cant blow things up as well as a demon.

What it will boil down to is your play style. Sage may be better at 1v1 and group pk for you, or vice versa

@LongKnife: You keep going on about sage psys having 20s vs 8 phys immunity over demons, Demons cant use expel too? The only difference is that you can purify the seal? Not like a demon cant use seal overwrite or anything.

Heck a demon psy could will surge into a expel and have the same – 2 seconds phys immune as a sage + the fact they would only have to channel one skill to keep that physically immune up. Which from what I can see makes effective DD time during the phys immunities about the same for both cultivations.

Not saying that they should do this but they could. Anyway what im getting at is that genie skills are not a cultivation trait and should not be factored in to cultivation weighups seeing as both cultivations can use a genie and its skills.

On topic: Congratulations on 2 r9rr +12 Jades classes, pity you couldn’t take him on on your sin. Sin vs sin is fun as heck

Azura - Lost City

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Even if you can tank, why wouldn't you spam it? ;o

IKR? Even, when I'm fighting someone who I can tank, I still use charms. I mean, why not? You never know when someone will suddenly gank you and change everything.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Let's write a lot and actually say nothing at all. You literally just needlessly copy-pasted the entire skill list and then made a baseless claim that "demon iz moar fast paced skillz cuz i typed many wordz." Then you gave a speech about how the heart of the cards and friendship will overcome mathz and science.

I'll ask again: what, aside from Tide Spirit, gives you reason to go demon?

Because unless there's something I'm missing, a sage is dealing 5% more damage consistently while the demon only crits 2% more. Sage deals 1/20th more damage while demon crits 1/50th more frequently. See where I'm going with this?

Reason to go Demon : Playstyle. Period. What more reason does there need to be?

A sage dealing 5% more damage is equal to 5 points per 100... If you consider per hit over 100 hits, so yes you are right as to a sage dealing more damage, but spread out to being barely noticeable per hit... also, that 5% is added to the 20% masteries that demons also already have, which is only to the base damage, NOT on top of the 20% from masteries (which actually, do the math there since you are so keen on that aspect). ADD AGAIN : Not only do sages not get 5% more than demons per hit due to the 20% given a level 10 mastery... But also factor in you only do 25% damage in PvP. Thus... you get 1% more damage in PvP over a demon psy who gets 2% crit... BITE ME b:laugh b:beatenup

The +2% crit amounts by itself to only 1 hit in 50 attacks being double damage, and in and of itself you would be correct. However, crit is one of those stats which needs to be stacked to be effective. Crit also comes from +Atk Lvls. When you stack enough crit (of which that +2% helps toward that end)... You end up dealing more damage over time than even that 5% extra damage gives.

Of course this depends on how you build. You obviously decided to go r9rr... well I would agree that going r9rr is actually better suited gear to a sage. However, in going demon, I have decided to go with gears more suited to that playstyle and building my damage output in that direction... I hardly call ending up with 23k+-26k+ base magic attack with +180 atk lvls (black with jones) with +40-45% crit gimp on a damage class and cultivation choice suited to that end.

And you actually speak to ME of math and science?

I have Higher-Dimensional IMAGES currently of 4th through 9th dimensions that I made. And I am working on a book that will also have up to 13th dimensional figures and the graphs so that other people can utilize those as well.

And as far as science goes, the same book I am currently working on has Quantum Gravity, Quantum Temporal Shifts as a symptom of Mass-Space interactions, thus showing "Time" itself is not a physical entity, Quantum Doppler Shifts as a symptom of Light-Space interactions, details on Quantized Space itself (that means Space itself comes in finite units), sets a maximum limit to how much mass can gather, and proves the Universe itself MUST be finite. Dark Matter and it's current placeholder equation get ruled out completely on the basis of it's assuming Einstein's gravitational equation is complete. Quantum Gravity takes it's place on the scale of independent galaxies, clusters and superclusters, which thus leads to answers for Earth-Moon and Earth-Sun distances expanding.

Add to the science portion of this book that it will also have the new methodology which allowed for the details surrounding Quantum Gravity to be realized at all. It treats of the ontological and epistemological philosophies, language, mathematics, how those things are applied verses real observations and the utilization of interpretations with respect to how to arrive at interpretations and how to use already present interpretations to rewind information back to base facts in order to review where scientists went wrong in their interpretations given there are clearly options scientists in the past 100 years have completely missed. And on that note, never in the history of science has a methodology been presented in the same literature as a theory that has come from it, especially not on the scale of Quantum Gravity.

So let's talk seriously if you wanna chit chat something intelligent. b:shutup b:bye

skaitavia

What happened over this weekend while I was gone? O.o

Sister_Warui - Raging Tide

Skaitavia wrote: »

What happened over this weekend while I was gone? O.o

Lots of rambling about sage/demon psy now. (Sage is best! Dx)

Also was your time in bronycon fun?

skaitavia

Sister_Warui - Raging Tide wrote: »

Lots of rambling about sage/demon psy now. (Sage is best! Dx)

Also was your time in bronycon fun?

Very much so! The amount of positive feedback from my cosplay gave me more motivation for working on next year's outfit!

/totally derailing the already derailed thread.

Sister_Warui - Raging Tide

Skaitavia wrote: »

Very much so! The amount of positive feedback from my cosplay gave me more motivation for working on next year's outfit!

/totally derailing the already derailed thread.

RT needs pics Dx you and hele!

*coughs* we have a sticky picture gallery *coughs*

opkossy

Skaitavia wrote: »

Very much so! The amount of positive feedback from my cosplay gave me more motivation for working on next year's outfit!

/totally derailing the already derailed thread.

Meh. This thread needed more ponies anyway.

Zheii - Archosaur

Derailing threads?! *Queen thread derail-er*

Anyone have cookies?
But about the whole Demon vs Sage Psy; I don't play Psy! although I do make it a habit to go around one-shotting Phys in White Voodoo ;D
(above statement had nothing to do with demon vs sage xD')

Jesusisback - Raging Tide

Very gg

Desdi - Sanctuary

Jesusisback - Raging Tide wrote: »

Very gg

I'm afraid you're going to start slowly infecting people with GG b:shocked

Sister_Warui - Raging Tide

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm afraid you're going to start slowly infecting people with GG b:shocked

You should hear them all when they are together. I swear they use 'GG' more than I use 'desu' when Speaking Japanese.

Jesusisback - Raging Tide

Kawaiiiiiiiiiiiiiii desu (gg)

Sister_Warui - Raging Tide

Jesusisback - Raging Tide wrote: »

Kawaiiiiiiiiiiiiiii desu (gg)

ihu a little bit Dx

Zheii - Archosaur

Sister_Warui - Raging Tide wrote: »

ihu a little bit Dx

I'll help you kill him

Desdi - Sanctuary

Call me if you need help.


Also, totally derailed already derailed thread is derailed.

Zheii - Archosaur

Woot! \o/

Don't stop me now... Don't stop me, I'm having a good time, having a good time!

Sister_Warui - Raging Tide

Zheii - Archosaur wrote: »

Woot! \o/

Don't stop me now... Don't stop me, I'm having a good time, having a good time!

why am I imagining you in like loos full length pyjama pants/shirt doing a mini dance across a floor?

OTL it was an incredibly specific image when you said this...

opkossy

Mods are asleep.

Post ponies.

Desdi - Sanctuary

OPKossy wrote: »

Mods are asleep.

Post ponies.

You know something's wrong when the Mods are trolling b:shocked

Zheii - Archosaur

Sister_Warui - Raging Tide wrote: »

why am I imagining you in like loos full length pyjama pants/shirt doing a mini dance across a floor?

OTL it was an incredibly specific image when you said this...

Omgosh Yes XD!
I would totally do that xDDD

opkossy

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

You know something's wrong when the Mods are trolling b:shocked

I don't know what you're talking about. Mods here never troll! b:avoid



But we'd best stop derailing and spamming this up, even if it really needed a change of pace.