Cool Story-2 without naming and shaming .

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Okay, first of all, I'm assuming full r9rr +12 with josd, on both ends. I don't know what your gear is. But based on your statement, either:

1. Your gear is pretty average. You can easily die in white voodo, and your seal is not reliable. You probably do not have r9rr yet, much less josd, and your refines are pretty average as well.
OR
2. You do not know how to play psychic. You only stay in black voodo. You neglect to kite your opponent and you rarely use your genie, apoth or defense charm.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are #1.

With that said, my replies are in Red from the perspective of an End Game r9rr psychic, without NW gears. My opponents are equally geared.

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Except that I actually have experience in each of those fights. Do you?

Yes I do. Even though I have an assassin on Dreamweaver, that doesn't stop me from being a Psychic on other servers. Infact, I played as someone who was first a Demon, then switched to Sage, then switched BACK to Demon because it better suited my playstyle. Although I do admit that Sage is better at Mass pk and TW alike because of their supportive abilities, I still prefer demon for their killing abilities.


Go fight a BM, see how much of a chance you get to Tide spirit.

Not a lot of chance. But without tide spirit, how do you expect to kill him exactly? Having almost as much magic defense as arcanes in Magic Marrow + 20k hp, nothing short of some long combo will do the damage. If you think that Demon Tide Spirit can't kill them, Sage will barely tickle them.

Go fight a demon barb that knows how to use the demon chi taunt, see how much chi you have for using any chi skill period.

There is an apoth called white tea that I can use. How do you even kill a barb without a crit? The class itself is built to tank. They can solid shield, invoke, apoth, have naturally high hp in tiger form, you name it. Again, regular attacks will hardly do the trick without some sort of combos.

Go fight an archer, see how his anti-stun will quickly outlast your demon psys physical immunity ability.

Yes, but sage psy will doesn't out last their anti stun either, so whats the difference? With soul of silence, he's not going to kill me without some luck, or will surge. So I just have to psy will for the will surge and occasional purge. Camp white voodo if i really need to, and they really can't do much else.

Go fight a seeker, figure out wat do when you lose your physical immunity and he ADs your tide spirit + SoSt.

Kite, or tank in white voodo, or use my genie, or use an apoth, etc. If I can force him to use AD 5 seconds into the fight, then it won't even be a fight at all. Most of the challenge is doing enough damage to kill them.

Veno sends nix at you and ticks your SoSt, what do. You try and tide spirit and get bewitched or stunned or IGED, wat do. Your chi gets eaten alive and you have no chance of rebuilding it, wat do.

Why would I have no chance of rebuilding it? I have apoth. Demon psychics still get chi for attacking things. I can build cloud eruption on my genie if I REALLY need to. I will probably 1 shot the nix anyway. It would most likely just be a long drawn out fight. Venos can't really kill me if I'm playing defensively, since they're a supportive class on their own. Then it's a matter of time to either regain my chi, or get good crits in, which my cultivation allows me to do.

Mystic debuffs you for their combo after knocking off SoST with their pet, what do?

I use Nullify poison, or evil ward. The former negates any of their wood based combos, the latter negates their absorb soul combo. But granted, there really aren't many mystics that PK.

Wiz I know from experience I get enough chi to keep me debuffed while still building my own, demon wouldn't be enough because you lack chi skills (spirit blast, chi skill, earth vector).

Yes, but Wizard is an arcane class that is completely immune to your earth based attacks. So you're left with only water attacks. Sure you can combo more, but that doesn't mean they will die when they have their genie, apoth, self buff for increased magic defense, distance shrink and etc. Getting a crit in can be the difference between your stun wearing out and them using distance shrink vs them dying. Demon grants you a very good chance for a crit, while sage can go through an entire combo without critting. I will quote myself:

Demon get less opportunity, but they seize every one of them. Sage gets more opportunity, but many of them are wasted.

And sage vs demon, again, one singular Sosi proc is basically a charm tick, but only one of these two is purifying DoTs and building chi steadily. EITHER one can drop the other with tide spirit; the crit is moot.

Since when did Soul of silence tick charm? Pretty sure you meant Soul of Retaliation. You also forget that Demon actually drains chi faster than Sage builds it.


This is why I believe that you are not anywhere close to end game. No, you cannot kill my end game psychic as another psychic without a crit. Between my ability to switch to white voodo if I see a combo coming, higher chance of landing a silence and the possibility of me using genie to negate your combo, your chance is slim to none to pull it off without a crit. You probably must will surge too, but that is debatable.


All I see is a bunch of armchair psychics who either don't play the class period or their experience is limited to this "JOSD full +12!!" Scenario that's only common to private and etc.

You misunderstand me. This is why I stated clearly that my calculation assumes full r9rr+12 with josd. I understand fully that Gear makes a major difference. The playstyle changes drastically between early game and end game. Also, I am not claiming that Demon is superior to Sage in all aspects. Rather, I am advocating that Demon is a completely viable playstyle. I am saying that Demon is superior in the killing aspect, while Sage is superior in the supporting/survival aspect.

I understand that most people will never get full end game gears, and to them, and you, Sage Psychic is the way to go. But to me, your true potential is only met when you are at total end game. Why would I waste my potential playing a subpar no name character, when there is a whole different world waiting for me to advance my ability to the fullest?

Btw. I just realized that this is completely off topic. This was supposed to be a PK Drama/troll thread. Carry on!

PsychicTuna - Harshlands

tsyfall wrote: »

Hmmm derp

It was this video lol

Specific time would be nice...

tsyfall

Intro: All derps in this video. I derp a lot but I don't think I make such obvious mistakes. As for what I'm listing: Not counting the times he ignored Soul of Stunning because I'm assuming he tried for luck for tidal

[0:00] Full buffs > Pill Buffs
[0:25] Extreme Poison when Psy is already kiting away out of melee range, EP wears off before got into range again
[0:29] Headhunt to Purify Proc
[0:30] EP again when psy is kiting away and at full HP, knifethrow has no chance
[1:06] Stuns himself on SoS when no tidal
[1:17] Wat, pdef charm vs psychic
[1:30] Tries to sleep through Will without thorn
[1:49] Tries to HH through dmg immunity wat
[3:09] Heart of Steel very pro sin move
[4:32] Tries to HH through dmg immunity wat

Overall? Very accurate title for the video, I'd say. But for the wrong reasons.
I'm waking up... to ash and dust.... I wipe my brow, and I sweat my rust...

f:meh

Kastus - Raging Tide

tsyfall wrote: »

Oh, Bhavy, Bhavy, Bhavy. What a brave, righteous, and utterly foolish archer you are regarding Kastus. I highly recommend that you stop debating on which PK monkey is the better player - at the end of the day they're still monkeys.

So let me get this straight. Raging Tide's sins suck so bad at sin, one of the best 1v1 classes in the game, that RT's so called "best sin" uses Heart of Steel vs a psychic [3:05]. Then there's all that bs about no good players with the gear to compete, so everyone treats the baboons like gods and call them pro.

What is your point? What is your claim? You can talk Kastus up 24/7 like a boss all day but at the end of the day, the real best sins of RT don't even have endgame gear.

Kastus and Ulq are still pretty meh on the server. Maybe rubbish. Guess what, now even more people will laugh at how useless all this is.

LEARN 2 OBSERVE LOL it was a misclick

l

tsyfall

Oh great God of Assassins, it is my humble honor to receive an audience with the Deity of Crits and Zerks and Stealth. Please, answer me this.

Earlier, my Lord, I provided you with a list of ten things that you did during that fight. It is with great trepidation that I ask you: Will you please explain the Ten Derpmandments?

You shall do so, and I shall write that the things that my humble mind saw as mistakes, such as Headhunting through Immunity, are actually the great secrets to being an assassin. I shall create a new religion out of you.

Old Wise One, I beg you, answer this humble disciple. I prostrate myself before you to learn wisdom.

Kastus - Raging Tide

tsyfall wrote: »

Oh great God of Assassins, it is my humble honor to receive an audience with the Deity of Crits and Zerks and Stealth. Please, answer me this.

Earlier, my Lord, I provided you with a list of ten things that you did during that fight. It is with great trepidation that I ask you: Will you please explain the Ten Derpmandments?

You shall do so, and I shall write that the things that my humble mind saw as mistakes, such as Headhunting through Immunity, are actually the great secrets to being an assassin. I shall create a new religion out of you.

Old Wise One, I beg you, answer this humble disciple. I prostrate myself before you to learn wisdom.

how bout ur friend zsw let me play with his toon on the private server of yours and we do 1v1's

coz i cant be ***** to reply to your fiasco im just implying that im better than ulq DID i say in the video that im good? maybe if u open ur -.- eyes you would see the difference of trolling him and bragging

do w/e u want because in RT u will never be able to compete because u cant afford to farm or cs

this is my 2 cents and this is the last time i will reply to you lolb:bye

tsyfall

Kastus - Raging Tide wrote: »

how bout ur friend zsw let me play with his toon on the private server of yours and we do 1v1's

coz i cant be ***** to reply to your fiasco im just implying that im better than ulq DID i say in the video that im good? maybe if u open ur -.- eyes you would see the difference of trolling him and bragging

do w/e u want because in RT u will never be able to compete because u cant afford to farm or cs

this is my 2 cents and this is the last time i will reply to you lolb:bye

THE GOD REJECTED ME NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Time to go worship the Golden Bull again.

(Sure. I'll give you a pm later when we're ready.)

Apostasy - Raging Tide

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

A Sage Psy blah blah blah same **** different day

Good thing you are not demon then. Demon AND Sage both have their advantages which BOTH entails far more than just 2 skills.

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

All I see is [...] their experience is limited to this "JOSD full +12!!"

You are absolutely correct about this, but... Does this not apply to every "PRO" out there? b:question

PsychicTuna - Harshlands

Warning: Wall'o'text ahead!

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Okay, first of all, I'm assuming full r9rr +12 with josd, on both ends. I don't know what your gear is. But based on your statement, either:

1. Your gear is pretty average. You can easily die in white voodo, and your seal is not reliable. You probably do not have r9rr yet, much less josd, and your refines are pretty average as well.

Longknife is R9 3rd cast +3 wrists (b:shutup), mainly +8 with +10 helm/cape and +11 R9 3rd cast sphere.


OR

2. You do not know how to play psychic. You only stay in black voodo. You neglect to kite your opponent and you rarely use your genie, apoth or defense charm.

Says someone who does not have a psychic on pwi and Long knows how2psy unlike a decent amount on HL who are nothing but White Voodoo ******. He kites, and uses everything to survive and knows when to WV.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are #1.

With that said, my replies are in Red from the perspective of an End Game r9rr psychic, without NW gears. My opponents are equally geared.

This is PWI not a P.Server.

Yes I do. Even though I have an assassin on Dreamweaver, that doesn't stop me from being a Psychic on other servers. Infact, I played as someone who was first a Demon, then switched to Sage, then switched BACK to Demon because it better suited my playstyle. Although I do admit that Sage is better at Mass pk and TW alike because of their supportive abilities, I still prefer demon for their killing abilities.

Not a lot of chance. But without tide spirit, how do you expect to kill him exactly? Having almost as much magic defense as arcanes in Magic Marrow + 20k hp, nothing short of some long combo will do the damage. If you think that Demon Tide Spirit can't kill them, Sage will barely tickle them.

BM's are a class that relies on stun locking, break the stun lock, kite them, and try to catch them when Mag Marrow is off. BM's also have a slight advantage. +12 JoSD in White Voodoo won't do you much good when they Blade Tornado and shoot thru the def lvls because BT deals DoT damage which is one reason why the damage doesn't appear in the damage log only to avoid this is to have a decent p.def to back-up that +12 JoSD or Psy Will/Apoth/Genie.

There is an apoth called white tea that I can use. How do you even kill a barb without a crit? It class itself is built to tank. They can solid shield, invoke, apoth, have naturally high hp in tiger form, you name it. Again, regular attacks will hardly do the trick without some sort of combos.

Thus putting your apoth on CD and giving you one less defense for 2 minute while sage has options... And how to kill them? Charm debuff them for 1, spam GS when it procs EV and then GS again to keep them as far away from you as much as possible, get them to half HP tide spirit and nuke them if there sage if they turtle DoT them and when kiting back? Use Torrent and Sand Trap so you can keep doing damage to them when kiting, Demon: slightly trickier than sage but do-able if they keep Mo Zuns Taunt on CD then expect a fight, demon barbs are squishier compared to sage HP wise but make up for it with damage and their 5% decreased crit buff will also make the fight harder, Barbs also rely on a combo and its pretty easy to tell so you can use Psy Will, Expel, AD, or Apoth to tank the arma.

Yes, but sage psy will doesn't out last their anti stun either, so whats the difference? With soul of silence, he's not going to kill me without some luck, or will surge. So I just have to psy will for the will surge and occasional purge. Camp white voodo if i really need to, and they really can't do much else.

And if you camp WV you won't be doing much to them either... Soulburn them when they have anti-stun up, or get lucky with SoR and reflect HP debuff, SoSt if they are demon and they use demon QS to try and kill you with a flurry of auto-attacks. Heart of Steel comes in handy when you psy will as it gives metal immunity from the archers metal attacks. If the archer is Sage they try a charm bypass with Sage QS and maybe auto-attacks so same strategy with demon.

Kite, or tank in white voodo, or use my genie, or use an apoth, etc. If I can force him to use AD 5 seconds into the fight, then it won't even be a fight at all. Most of the challenge is doing enough damage to kill them.

With seekers... Psychic's negate there def lvl buff with Black Voodoo and seekers only have 1 reliable stun with a long CD, and 1 that is a combo, and they only have 1 anti-stun skill if sage, and a 6 sec tidal protection also if sage which means SoSt could be used to stunlock them when the seeker has exhausted those options unless they have fortify/badge. Also Heart of Steel comes in handy. And as a sage psy? I could use sage bubble to purify the seekers freeze where as demon would have to use psy will.

Why would I have no chance of rebuilding it? I have apoth. Demon psychics still get chi for attacking things. I can build cloud eruption on my genie if I REALLY need to. I will probably 1 shot the nix anyway. It would most likely just be a long drawn out fight. Venos can't really kill me if I'm playing defensively, since they're a supportive class on their own. Then it's a matter of time to either regain my chi, or get good crits in, which my cultivation allows me to do.

Did you forget the fact venos get 2-3 skill that drain chi? Evolved pets get better defense based on the veno's gear or is it soulforce? Nullify Poison is also useful here.

I use Nullify poison, or evil ward. The former negates any of their wood based combos, the latter negates their absorb soul combo. But granted, there really aren't many mystics that PK.

Smart about this. Though i haven't fought any mystics yet.

Yes, but Wizard is an arcane class that is completely immune to your earth based attacks. So you're left with only water attacks. Sure you can combo more, but that doesn't mean they will die when they have their genie, apoth, self buff for increased magic defense, distance shrink and etc.

Not completely immune but still pretty high def... Sage Wiz has more earth Def while demon gets more p.def from demon/sage earth shield, Distance Shrink is a non-factor against a ranged class unless it's to get out of range away from your opponent to avoid dying. They are a pain but you can slow them down pretty well with Disturb Soul.

I will quote myself:

Demon get less opportunity, but they seize every one of them. Sage gets more opportunity, but many of them are wasted.

Maybe to you but if you know wtf you are doing then sage is the way to go.

Since when did Soul of silence tick charm? Pretty sure you meant Soul of Retaliation. This is why I believe that you are not anywhere close to end game. No, you cannot kill my end game psychic as another psychic without a crit. Between my ability to switch to white voodo if I see a combo coming, higher chance of landing a silence and the possibility of me using genie to negate your combo, your chance is slim to none to pull it off without a crit. You probably must will surge too, but that is debatable.

5 second seal... half of the time it takes for your charm to be ready to tick again if SoS procs after your charm ticks is what he meant if you don't use Empowered Vig.

You misunderstand me. This is why I stated clearly that my calculation assumes full r9rr+12 with josd. I understand fully that Gear makes a major difference. The playstyle changes drastically between early game and end game.

I understand that most people will never get full end game gears, and to them, and you, Sage Psychic is the way to go. But to me, your true potential is only met when you are at total end game. Why would I waste my potential playing a subpar no name character, when there is a whole different world waiting for me to advance my ability to the fullest?

What you encounter on P.Server is not the same as what you will encounter on PWI, you will encounter PK where you will be either severely outgeared/outgear your opponents and then there are the hyper noobs who don't know wtf they are doing..

Btw. I just realized that this is completely off topic. This was supposed to be a PK Drama/troll thread. Carry on!

Replies in red.

Jesusisback - Raging Tide

Kastus - Raging Tide wrote: »

how bout ur friend zsw let me play with his toon on the private server of yours and we do 1v1's

Don't do it Cactus b:laughb:laugh

ALSO HOW GOES RT YO.....EVERYONE ALIVE? WELL? BOSSIN? I SEE HESOKA TROLLED ULQ, VERY GG. Tell Tia that JIB said that she sucks and tell Kevin to farm my sin r9rr +5 armors so I can start farming in PK b:laugh

tsyfall

Time to reply to the exploding fish. I can't seem to quote a quote, so I'm just going back and forth between tabs.

1. Cool, he has average gear. There is an absolutely huge difference between JosD and non JosD/non NW gear. I was able to stunlock a third cast R9 wizard on raging tides when he challenged me to a duel. I also managed to kill him.
This was on my level 94 sin.
You need JosD or you're still squish.

2. Length of playtime =/= skill. Look at Ulquiorra and Kastus.

3. Doesn't matter. We're talking about the same gears here.

4. Good BM's locks are actually pretty hard to break. You'd might as well just want to rely on Purify Proc. Blade Tornado? Try Faith or Expel or Absolute Domain if you're stunned?

5. Sage has very little options vs a barb. Half + tidespirit is pretty much screwed over if the Barb uses invoke or solid shield, combined of which they can cycle faster than your tide spirit.

A demon can get a barb to use genie or apoth or invoke through non-setups with crits only. A sage cannot and is much more easily predicted.

6. That's sort of the point of staying in WV. Tanking. The rest of the time you should be in black voodoo when possible.

7. So you're basically arguing against Longknife's original point, which was that a seeker was difficult to fight.

8. Chi point is moot. Demon venomancers can only drain so much chi, and furthermore, if a psychic uses white tea, they're more often than not going to use up that 2 sparks before the venomancer can drain it. Pet - black voodoo - still close to an easy kill. Or, if the veno is dumb, freeze veno>run>pet follows you>gg.

9. Should be fairly obvious at Nullify Poison

10. Distance Shrink nonfactor? Okay then. Last time I checked, demon DS gives 30 meters, which takes ~2 seconds to cover to get back in range. Which is 2 seconds for a charm to tick, basically.

And two seconds doesn't matter at all, because that's why psychics use diminished vigor, correct?

11. Assuming both players know what they're doing, "Demon gets less opportunity, but seizes every one of them. Sage gets more opportunity, but many of them are wasted." this still applies. And fail vs good player is not we are talking about.

12. mm

13. If we take Longknife's estimation of gear to be accurate, then he's pretty close to near-endgame.

So basically, either he outgears his opponent - and it doesn't matter what cultivation he is because gear wrecks lesser gear - or he's close, where our equality-based pserver arguments apply.

PsychicTuna - Harshlands

tsyfall wrote: »

Time to reply to the exploding fish. I can't seem to quote a quote, so I'm just going back and forth between tabs.

1. Cool, he has average gear. There is an absolutely huge difference between JosD and non JosD/non NW gear. I was able to stunlock a third cast R9 wizard on raging tides when he challenged me to a duel. I also managed to kill him.
This was on my level 94 sin.
You need JosD or you're still squish.

Any sin who's competent can stunlock... And you don't need JoSD's to survive you just need to be skilled in how to survive.

2. Length of playtime =/= skill. Look at Ulquiorra and Kastus.

3. Doesn't matter. We're talking about the same gears here.

4. Good BM's locks are actually pretty hard to break. You'd might as well just want to rely on Purify Proc. Blade Tornado? Try Faith or Expel or Absolute Domain if you're stunned?

Or Badge of Courage and Blade tornado deals damage like absorb soul does an instant damage DoT so faith would be useless I think...

5. Sage has very little options vs a barb. Half + tidespirit is pretty much screwed over if the Barb uses invoke or solid shield, combined of which they can cycle faster than your tide spirit.

Any smart barb would do that. Use DoT's to get thru the invoke/SS to do damage while waiting for it to wear off tick charm and then TS when it's off you may have 13/14 seconds to beat them.

A demon can get a barb to use genie or apoth or invoke through non-setups with crits only. A sage cannot and is much more easily predicted.

And Demon is also predictable with TS. Like you said with barbs they can cycle thru SS/Invoke and use apoth thus rendering that 20% crit buff form TS useless.

I watched Longknife 1 vs 1 a R9 3rd cast +10-12 JoSD/Vit sharded demon Barb with +11 Weapon and Long won several of the fights though he was cleric buffed to equal it out.

6. That's sort of the point of staying in WV. Tanking. The rest of the time you should be in black voodoo when possible.

7. So you're basically arguing against Longknife's original point, which was that a seeker was difficult to fight.

No reread again he said Sage has 0 problems against a seeker demon psy would struggle.

8. Chi point is moot. Demon venomancers can only drain so much chi, and furthermore, if a psychic uses white tea, they're more often than not going to use up that 2 sparks before the venomancer can drain it. Pet - black voodoo - still close to an easy kill. Or, if the veno is dumb, freeze veno>run>pet follows you>gg.

There is a 150 chi drain with a 30 second CD 30 morai skill for venos that they can use in foxform and using chi apoth would be a waste with that morai skill...

9. Should be fairly obvious at Nullify Poison

10. Distance Shrink nonfactor? Okay then. Last time I checked, demon DS gives 35 meters, which takes ~2 seconds to cover. Which is 2 seconds for a charm to tick, basically.

Didn't consider that.

And two seconds doesn't matter at all, because that's why psychics use diminished vigor, correct?

11. Assuming both players know what they're doing, "Demon gets less opportunity, but seizes every one of them. Sage gets more opportunity, but many of them are wasted." this still applies. And fail vs good player is not we are talking about.

Ok tell me what opportunities there to take advantage of for sage so i can stop wasting them?

12. mm

13. If we take Longknife's estimation of gear to be accurate, then he's pretty close to near-endgame.

So basically, either he outgears his opponent - and it doesn't matter what cultivation he is because gear wrecks lesser gear - or he's close, where our equality-based pserver arguments apply.

But he's still far away from endgame shards and iirc he's going +2 attack lvl shards.

Replies in red.

tsyfall

1. My original point was that non-JosD'd characters were squishy - so squishy, in fact, that Hook and Thorn sins could kill them. Without JosD a psychic's full potential cannot be brought to bear. i.e: A JosD could save genie for an offensive move that a non-JosD would have to use to survive an onslaught.

Walking around without any of the defense levels in NW/JosD/Very endgame gear is like walking around without white voodoo in just normal (48+15 vs 66). There is a significant difference.

2. There is an animation for Blade Tornado, unless the Blademaster is a bit off in the head and uses Zooming Thunder Powder. Faith blocks both Blade Tornado, Edged Blur, and Absorb Soul's damage last time I checked.

3/4. My original point was that Sage Psychics in general are quite predictable - predictable enough, that, in fact, you're able to give me the exact playstyle and sequence of skills to kill barbarians.

A barbarian who knows how a sage psychic plays will be able to judge when they should or should not invoke/solid shield etc. If they save their defenses for only the kill attempts, well, then a sage psychic is very hard pressed to go through their checkpoints.

A demon psychic, however, has two options.
They can create a non-intentional kill attempt via crits - for example, the barb may panic and invoke even though you never intended to kill him at that moment. This allows the psychic to do a real kill attempt - chi, debuffs and all - that has a much higher rate of success.
They can also get lucky on a follow up. Having failed to use their real kill attempt to kill, they, due to crits, get lucky enough that they kill the barbarian on the next charm tick, or afterwards, when the Barb's defenses are on cooldown.

5. A sage psychic will have trouble with a seeker. I'm not going to repeat what I said about getting lucky on pre- or follow- up attempts. Furtheremore, seekers are technically a tanking class. Demon has better damage -> easier. You have to keep in mind that offense works just as well as defense.

6. Psychic at full chi > drained to 200 chi > builds chi > drained down to 100 chi. White Tea>3 sparks>tide spirit>vector, chi is gone in about 3 seconds. Nothing to burn.

7. I'm pretty sure you are a good psychic and of course take advantage of all your kill attempts. Unfortunately, not many of them will work. Think about it. How many times did you try to make a "perfect setup" and then watch it actually work exactly according to plan?
That's right.
Probably not a lot.
All in all when you kill someone at endgame you're going to be lucky, at least in part. The only time you will kill someone without luck is if they're an idiot.

Demon has more luck > demon's kill attempts are more likely to work because of crit.
Sage has less luck > sage's kill attempts are less likely to work because no crit.
1 crit on a DPH class can mean the difference between charm tick and decisively ending the fight.

I think I'll stop arguing. It didn't work during my Purify Proc thread and I don't think it'll work now.

f:shame

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

tsyfall wrote: »

Pretty sure it wasn't a misclick considering a. he was already attacking the psychic with bow+range, and b. you can clearly see the icon of the Heart of Steel blinking on skillbar (i.e hes spam clicking it.)

I've watched his videos. Tell me the last time you saw a sin try to stun a psy through Purify Proc buff. Tell me the last time you said that sin was good.

In another video, the guy ticks this BM's charm in 2 hits... still takes like 5 minutes to kill him <_< lmao

You're an idiot if you think he on purposely use a metal immune skill vs a psyb:victory

I big kastus up 24/7? Are you high? Go troll in the dungeons instead of making baseless accusations cause you won't find any evidence of that!

So much talk and yet I see no challenge from you 1v1 against kastus. Are you too butthurt to use your main toon to trash talk on forums?

tsyfall

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

You're an idiot if you think he on purposely use a metal immune skill vs a psyb:victory

I big kastus up 24/7? Are you high? Go troll in the dungeons instead of making baseless accusations cause you won't find any evidence of that!

So much talk and yet I see no challenge from you 1v1 against kastus. Are you too butthurt to use your main toon to trash talk on forums?

No one has yet to address the other things I pointed out about him aside from the metal immune... such close minded people.
I'm not trolling; I was asked for evidence by a fellow poster and I gave it. I then most respectfully asked the original person to answer a question of mine. Here is a simillar request:

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

I big kastus up 24/7? Are you high? Go troll in the dungeons instead of making baseless accusations cause you won't find any evidence of that!

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

You get butt hurt when another lesser geared sin is considered better than you.

What is your point? What is your claim? You can cash shop or farm tt 24/7 like a boss?

Kastus is still the best sin on the server and you're still rubbish.

Hmmmmm............. I think that you trashtalking Ulquiorra, bragging how good Kastus is ("best sin on the server"), and then getting angry at me showing otherwise... yes, that seems like you are, as you put it, "bigging him up".

I find evidence and present it, just like I did above. I don't remember giving my opinion on the evidence.

And if you haven't figured out yet, I've moved on from PWI. I've already told Kastus that I'll 1v1 him where I am when I have the necessary arrangements.
Jeez, people are so confrontational these days.

f:sweat

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

tsyfall wrote: »

No one has yet to address the other things I pointed out about him aside from the metal immune... such close minded people.
I'm not trolling; I was asked for evidence by a fellow poster and I gave it. I then most respectfully asked the original person to answer a question of mine. Here is a simillar request:




Hmmmmm............. I think that you trashtalking Ulquiorra, bragging how good Kastus is ("best sin on the server"), and then getting angry at me showing otherwise... yes, that seems like you are, as you put it, "bigging him up".

I find evidence and present it, just like I did above. I don't remember giving my opinion on the evidence.

And if you haven't figured out yet, I've moved on from PWI. I've already told Kastus that I'll 1v1 him where I am when I have the necessary arrangements.
Jeez, people are so confrontational these days.

f:sweat

Hardly a 24/7 thing. Poor evidence. And it's not really bigging up when it's true. There maybe a better skilled sin on the server and I'm sure kas will admit that there maybe yet if they don't have the gear to compete they can hardly be called a better sin. Furthermore, everyone makes mistakes in the heat of pk. I am yet to see any such evidence from you that qualifies you to be such an expert and be so critical of all mistakes made making out that there's so many that it makes him a bad sin. Please post a video of flawless unedited sin play by yourself so we can all bow down to your hidden greatness oh vhosen one or kindly **** off, you don't even play this game anymore so what's any of this to you. I'm not angry, I just find little childminded people like you frustratingly dopey!b:victoryb:cute

Longknife - Harshlands

I'm not quoting those walls of text, nor do I see any point in replying to guys that sound like they've only done 1v1's on private servers, let alone who discount me as "not knowing much about psys" simply because I'm r9rr +11 no JOSDs and not r9rr +12 full JOSD, as if that defines if one's experience is valid or not.


Your entire fight summaries all rely on Tide Spirit, and you all seem to be incapable of asking "but what if my opponent knows he'll win if he avoids/prevents/circumvents Tide spirit?" That's, again, the salient issue. Anyone with a brain will go "aha, DEMON Psychic and specifically be on the lookout for Tide Spirit. Until you use Tide, your advantage over Demon is a modest 2% more crit at the cost of 5% less overall damage. Have you ever experimented with crit? I have. I used to stack it before I got my r9, and at one point I got 26% crit. I wanted to see just how sick full crit could get vs. just the basic full r9, so I wore a piece of crit gear on every slot I can tell you that anything beyond 18% crit felt minimalistically beneficial to PVP, only being noticeable in PvE AOE instances. There was a slight noticeable difference (slight) upon breaching 20%, but that's it. With all the gear provided in game, it's easy for -ANY- Psychic to hit at least 21% crit. You having 23% instead of 21%? Not gonna matter. You NEED Tide Spirit to have a noticeable boost, otherwise you're a gimped sage.

An explanation for demon Psy vs archer is hilariously absent and the explanation for fighting Mystics seems blissfully unaware of how spammable wood or damage amp immunity are compared to how spammable the Absorb soul combo is. (seriously, go try your own suggestion, come back and tell me how it goes)


I don't CS. I fought in TT90 gear vs. 8 sins at a time back when tideborn were new, I've fought with r8 +10, I've fought with r9, I had an account made on my behalf on a private server to dabble around with (the exact setup you're talking about), and now I'm r9rr +11 with +8 armor. If the rankings were up, you could check Psys and quickly find me on the list. So excuse me for sounding arrogant, but I have a hard time listening to a word that's said when all it amounts to was "I fought with endgame gear and killing wuz eziur." No ****? So did I, and while I admit Psy's DPH potential was disappointing, I got the kills, I just had to work for them slightly harder. You? You had to work to survive harder, and if you fight an opponent that knows what to watch out for, you're kind of in trouble cause you're horrendously predictable.

And yes, I happen to have fought a demon barb who outgeared me a couple days ago because he requested fighting a "good psy" and not another idiot who CSed his gear and dry humps White voodoo. I got buffs to counteract the gear difference. Killed him I believe three times out of 6 rounds. Was simply a matter of stacking him up with DoTs (those exist for a reason) and kiting him until an opportunity came up to bring him down. And in one case, it was a matter of breaking free of Occult with Badge and Psy willing JUST in time to avoid Perdition, then dropping him instead. He SPAAAMMMED that chi taunt, and I would've easily been dead had I been demon, simply due to a lack of chi. I attempted Tide Spirit, and that was a round I lost because he was specifically watching out for Tide Spirit. I don't think Tide ended up being involved in a single one of my victories for that reason alone: it bombed my already-low chi (cause he was eating it) and accomplished nothing. At most it forced an AD or magic resistance move out of him, but see, I need chi for DEFENSE, he doesn't need it nearly as bad and he can build a crapton of chi just by spamming his buff. Instead I bided my time with defense and waited for an opportunity, and yes, random crits did play a role in it for me too: you crit 2% more, don't kid yourselves now and pretend that's a crapton when we're talking about a class that has 15-20% typically.



A demon Psy could never pull off this. Please pay attention to my chi and use of BoL + Expel, count the times being demon would've led to death. I counted at least four. We were able to full push and get in their base easily because of that maneuver.

A Sage Psy can still pull off this. Yes, that's 18% crit. Hell, feel free to watch more of the vids and see how much I crit. 2% is totally unneccesary and you can hit a respectable crit amount with gear alone on either culti. The 20% from Tide is the only one that'd matter.




I just can't say I'm surprised to see sins recommending demon Psy. Of course you would: you're high on damage, but terrible at group-orientated PVP and lasting longer than a couple seconds. Except you can't just restealth on a demon Psy. You either die, or you camp white voodoo for ages, at which point you're BASICALLY useless to your team. Can still use support skills in white, but again, not as well as a sage.
But I'd imagine most of the public doesn't seek to be a one-hit wonder that burns out in seconds flat, hence why Sage vs Demon SHOULD be the easiest decision in the world. Keyword "should."


Also, lol at the dude who said I'm probably a nab that doesn't even know how to white voodoo. Dat irony....

Dylena - Raging Tide

No offense to sage psys but to me it seems like you guys are trying to find anything possible to make yourself look better then demon. I don't fully understand why everytime sage or demon psy is mentioned all the sage ones try to list as many skills as they possibly can..

As an endgame archer I fear no sage psy, their damage is far to low to be compared to a demon's crit spree. The longer immunity on psy makes no difference because archer is a kiting class and we choose when to attack not the other way around. If you go phys immunity, the only thing we need to do is either stun and walk away until it runs out or just stealth and wait it out.

All in all, both cultivation is viable and I have to agree with Zsw. The points he put up are quite accurate and not based of your own cultivation answers.

So many people are living in the past, thinking that +10 armors and low tier are ok anymore but lets face it, this game has advanced into P server lvl and everyone that can't keep up cant just walk around and pretend like they're endgame. ulties aren't as much needed anymore to do high end damage, you can pretty much chunk off a large portion of a persons HP and put them at a critical lvl.

Longknife - Harshlands

Dylena - Raging Tide wrote: »

No offense to sage psys but to me it seems like you guys are trying to find anything possible to make yourself look better then demon. I don't fully understand why everytime sage or demon psy is mentioned all the sage ones try to list as many skills as they possibly can..

As an endgame archer I fear no sage psy, their damage is far to low to be compared to a demon's crit spree. The longer immunity on psy makes no difference because archer is a kiting class and we choose when to attack not the other way around. If you go phys immunity, the only thing we need to do is either stun and walk away until it runs out or just stealth and wait it out.

All in all, both cultivation is viable and I have to agree with Zsw. The points he put up are quite accurate and not based of your own cultivation answers.

So many people are living in the past, thinking that +10 armors and low tier are ok anymore but lets face it, this game has advanced into P server lvl and everyone that can't keep up cant just walk around and pretend like they're endgame. ulties aren't as much needed anymore to do high end damage, you can pretty much chunk off a large portion of a persons HP and put them at a critical lvl.

I don't see how 5 second silence and 6 second charm cooldown vs. 3 second silence and 7 second charm cooldown should even WARRANT an explanation, nor should 20 second immunity vs. 8...Pretty sure we list off skills because it SHOULD be obvious. Guess it isn't.



The difference is this: with demon you just get close to them, survive that 8 second physical immunity, and once it drops, you've won. You have longer stun immunity, you knock that stun shield off and pew-pew. A single purge and he's done. With a sage? A sage Psy can match your anti-stun ability. It becomes a back-and-forth kite fight with him trying to catch you with anti-stun down while you try to catch him with physical immunity off. The MOMENT you're stunned, you're screwed. You're not tanking Tide Spirit regardless of if it's sage or demon, especially with a 14 second charm cooldown.


Now please, enlighten me. How is a demon scarier than a sage, in that regard? What is the demon going to possibly do if you simply put yourself within a reasonable distance from him (close enough so he can't run, far enough for full damage), wait for physical immunity to come off, stun, and then start pew pewing? You have a good 23 seconds you can stay stun immune, plus another ~3-4.5 seconds for stunning arrow to buy yourself time. You can easily shoot off soul of stunning whenever you like, at which point you have ample time to unload on him before he can resist you again. Yes, white voodoo helps, but one unlucky purge and he's done: it's inevitable. The moment 30 seconds has passed, you get another 15 seconds stun immunity while he gets 8 second physical immunity. The window for you to attack is pretty damned big, and if you feel the need to retreat, he can't stop you. If he attempts to Tide Spirit, you just stun arrow that ****, kite or stealth.
Sage? We're talking 23 second stun immunity vs. 20 second physical, followed by 15 second stun immunity vs. another 20. SUDDENLY there's an issue. Suddenly he can go toe to toe with you all day and doesn't need to retreat. He can get up in your face and the moment your anti-stun is off, he's just gotta put stun up. You hit it? You're dead. You need to kite it and get chi back, but he's building chi right along with you, so however long you can anti-stun, he can physical immune. And ONE ****-up, ONE stray arrow hitting soul of stunning, you're lined up and ready to be knocked down by Tide Spirit. At that point, for archer, 20% extra crit is excessive: COMPLETELY unneccesary. It's inevitable you set off Soul of Stunning.

So yes, enlighten me. How in the HELL is he supposed to hold you down for Tide Spirit or prevent you from running from it if you can remain anti-stunned longer than he's capable of simply taking arrows to the face? How in the HELL is he supposed to build up enough chi to continuously have Psy will and Tide Spirit ready?

PsychicTuna - Harshlands

tsyfall wrote: »

1. My original point was that non-JosD'd characters were squishy - so squishy, in fact, that Hook and Thorn sins could kill them. Without JosD a psychic's full potential cannot be brought to bear. i.e: A JosD could save genie for an offensive move that a non-JosD would have to use to survive an onslaught.

That wiz must of been really bad... to of been beaten by a 94 H & T sin...

Walking around without any of the defense levels in NW/JosD/Very endgame gear is like walking around without white voodoo in just normal (48+15 vs 66). There is a significant difference.

2. There is an animation for Blade Tornado, unless the Blademaster is a bit off in the head and uses Zooming Thunder Powder. Faith blocks both Blade Tornado, Edged Blur, and Absorb Soul's damage last time I checked.

Meanwhile faith would put your genie out of commission till it recharges just for 1 skill better off to just to Psy Will and have to wait for 30 second CD to reuse.

3/4. My original point was that Sage Psychics in general are quite predictable - predictable enough, that, in fact, you're able to give me the exact playstyle and sequence of skills to kill barbarians.

A barbarian who knows how a sage psychic plays will be able to judge when they should or should not invoke/solid shield etc. If they save their defenses for only the kill attempts, well, then a sage psychic is very hard pressed to go through their checkpoints.

A demon psychic, however, has two options.
They can create a non-intentional kill attempt via crits - for example, the barb may panic and invoke even though you never intended to kill him at that moment. This allows the psychic to do a real kill attempt - chi, debuffs and all - that has a much higher rate of success.
They can also get lucky on a follow up. Having failed to use their real kill attempt to kill, they, due to crits, get lucky enough that they kill the barbarian on the next charm tick, or afterwards, when the Barb's defenses are on cooldown.

5. A sage psychic will have trouble with a seeker. I'm not going to repeat what I said about getting lucky on pre- or follow- up attempts. Furtheremore, seekers are technically a tanking class. Demon has better damage -> easier. You have to keep in mind that offense works just as well as defense.

6. Psychic at full chi > drained to 200 chi > builds chi > drained down to 100 chi. White Tea>3 sparks>tide spirit>vector, chi is gone in about 3 seconds. Nothing to burn.

Purge the TS, drain 150 chi (or 200 if there demon) GG you just ran out of options.

7. I'm pretty sure you are a good psychic and of course take advantage of all your kill attempts. Unfortunately, not many of them will work. Think about it. How many times did you try to make a "perfect setup" and then watch it actually work exactly according to plan?
That's right.
Probably not a lot.
All in all when you kill someone at endgame you're going to be lucky, at least in part. The only time you will kill someone without luck is if they're an idiot.

Demon has more luck > demon's kill attempts are more likely to work because of crit.
Sage has less luck > sage's kill attempts are less likely to work because no crit.
1 crit on a DPH class can mean the difference between charm tick and decisively ending the fight.

So your basing this entirely off luck lolwut? Your basing this entire thing off one thing Crit, You only get 2% from masteries... And 20% from TS which every class can defend against... In some way... As a barb? Invoke/SS, Psychic switch to WV and Stun, as a cleric Sleep/SoG, Veno can purge and drain your remaining chi or use bewitch, Wiz Elemental Shell, Seal, Sleep, or MS, BM Stunlock, Archers would have to kite it or stealth or stun and make you waste the channeling buff, Mystics could lysing the sleep herb, Sins could Stunlock or stealth, Seekers would have to tank it or possibly could stunlock. At least with sage you have better options than relying on 1 skill that sucks have your chi. And you say sage is predictable demon is worse if they have rely on TS to get crits.


I think I'll stop arguing. It didn't work during my Purify Proc thread and I don't think it'll work now.

f:shame

Replies in red.

Edit: Do you use Red Tide?

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

stun immunity? o.o

Longknife - Harshlands

5. A sage psychic will have trouble with a seeker. I'm not going to repeat what I said about getting lucky on pre- or follow- up attempts. Furtheremore, seekers are technically a tanking class. Demon has better damage -> easier. You have to keep in mind that offense works just as well as defense.

This is mind-boggling as well. For the life of me, I have NEVER met a Psy who claimed to have trouble DDing a seeker. They have no extra mdef buffs, their defense is through defense level, something we basically cancel out.

Meanwhile I get 10 seconds of pure immunity, another 10 seconds of pure immunity, I'm BASICALLY free to Earth Vector at any moment, and finally I can put up Soul of Stunning at ANY time during that physical immunity and he'll proc it. I have all the time in the world to fully debuff him, I'm hitting him like a truck while he hits me for 0, and I can EASILY get Soul of Stunning off whenever I please. If needs be, I can re-do Psy will and Expel because I literally tank him that long, so IF the Seeker happens to be an epic boss and has cat-like reflexes and catches my Soul of Stunning with his little anti-stun, I'm still free to tank him 100% for another 20+ seconds before trying again. I -LITERALLY- never died to a Seeker with my little private server experiments, and I fought them unbuffed while they were buffed...It's like the easiest class. Of course a zerk crit at the right moment is ALWAYS possible, but I have a ridiculous amount of tools on hand to reduce the window he has to pull one off/reduce it's damage significantly.
Demon on the other hand, again, a Seeker needs only to stun through your 8 second Psy will with tele stun and occult, it comes off, he anti-stuns any hope of you stunning and proceeds to Sac slash QPQ debuff you and unload damage on you completely uncontested. If you Tide Spirit him, he can literally just IG knowing that's you at your most dangerous (or alternatively, Dew as your Psy will is ending and just eat the stun), and once it's over you'll have no chi and he'll be free to try nuking you instead. You have a time limit, a Sage can literally fight him for days without breaking a sweat because he's only dealing metal damage and that metal damage is horrendously susceptible to being baited by SoSt.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Sage? We're talking 23 second stun immunity vs. 20 second physical, followed by 15 second stun immunity vs. another 20. SUDDENLY there's an issue. /QUOTE]

stun immunity? o.o

Anti-stun. For archers.

A Demon is free to Tide Spirit at any moment, but any archer with half a brain will kite it if the opportunity arises. Since anti-stun prevents them from being held down, you can't simply Tide Spirit an archer as long as anti-stun is up; you need them stunned first. Considering an archer can anti-stun longer than a demon Psy can immunity, and for HALF the duration of soul of Stunning, they can easily just shoot that thing off, the proceed to pew-pew the Psy freely, waiting for some lucky crits or purge. They're also free to Aim low and the demon isn't going to have a way to break free PERIOD, meaning he HAS to sit there and tank that damage; he's toast if a purge follows right after Aim Low.

Vs. Sage, it's different. Suddenly it's the Psy that has a the brief windows to blindly pew-pew while the archer is forced to just try for a lucky purge. No amount of kiting is going to help because a Sage Psy can build enough chi and genie energy to continue their immunity as long as the archer can continue anti-stun, but an archer's anti-stun cooldown is higher (on Alacrity) so their 15 second anti-stun vs. Sage's 20 second immunity gives the sage a brief window to try for a kill. Again, even if the archer is super cautious and is retreating as his anti-stun is coming off, it won't matter, because the Psy will have his immunities fully ready to go by the time the archer's back. Aim low won't work here because the Sage is both more capable of purifying it (for example between Psy will and BoL) and he's going to be ready to stun an archer that does this (after BoL, when the archer's anti-stun is off and before he and the Psy put their immunities back on), thus putting the archer in a dangerous position.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

seriously, what's the 20sec stun immunity for sagesb:shocked

Longknife - Harshlands

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

seriously, what's the 20sec stun immunity for sagesb:shocked

1) Cast Sage Bubble of Life
2) Click Expel mid-cast
3) Bubble of Life purifies the silence but doesn't purge the immunity
4) ?????
5) Be glad you rolled Sage.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

1) Cast Sage Bubble of Life
2) Click Expel mid-cast
3) Bubble of Life purifies the silence but doesn't purge the immunity
4) ?????
5) Be glad you rolled Sage.

but that's p.immunity, not stun immunity (for stuns that deal only p.dmg).
wouldn't an archer bypass it with blazing arrow?

Dylena - Raging Tide

You're not stun immune towards an archer since blazing arrow should be on at all time.. I didn't really bother to read all of it cus I'm sure your mindset on sage is the better for everything no matter what. Either way, its quite simple the high crit rate they can bring out gives them a large advantage in damage which means if they pull it off (which most good psys will) then the archer is in deep trouble. Stun immunity I can keep up until the next half moon if you want, makes no difference...if a person gets caught my SoS then they should just uninstall considering there's both genie and self skills to help avoid it.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Hmm, see, I was hoping to continue a discussion, but what? LongKnife talks like other classes can't simply fortify all the soul of stunning or just kite out of range until their cooldown is ready. Or a demon psychic can't simply do the same in reverse.

I just can't say I'm surprised to see sins recommending demon Psy. Of course you would: you're high on damage, but terrible at group-orientated PVP and lasting longer than a couple seconds.

And this just made me lmao. Properly supported Assassins can be game changing with their ability to quickly eliminate opposing DDs and support, and if played well, can out live many members of the team. It's all about positioning.

So simple minded? I'm done.

Also, some of the best players never even touched international. They played other versions.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hmm, see, I was hoping to continue a discussion, but what? LongKnife talks like other classes can't simply fortify all the soul of stunning or just kite out of range until their cooldown is ready. Or a demon psychic can't simply do the same in reverse.

So simple minded? I'm done.

He also thinks tide spirit is a necessary skill to use, and apparently the only skill demon psys have b:laugh I barely ever use tide spirit... like, EVER... I have plenty of other options and yes, a genie set up appropriately to being a demon psy (considering some people seem to think demon psys just seal themselves with expel... just lol... my genie dun have expel)... And I do just fine in nw, tw etc etc...

Well being I'm just looked at as an idiot f:naughty according to many on the forums because I chose to NOT have r9rr gear (Im r8r because r8r can be customized, jungle belt, t2 nirvy helm & cloak), NOT to have the purify proc on my end game weapon (Im warsoul recast so people can not qq about the purify proc and because I know other classes do not need it and therefore I know I do not need it), and NOT to go sage psy (Im demon, because it fit my playstyle)... When the reasons are I do not need to choose those options as they do not fit MY playstyle nor do I need the most OP gears to beat those that DO NEED such gears...

(ta)(ta)s b:dirty b:bye

Dylena - Raging Tide

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

He also thinks tide spirit is a necessary skill to use, and apparently the only skill demon psys have b:laugh I barely ever use tide spirit... like, EVER... I have plenty of other options and yes, a genie set up appropriately to being a demon psy (considering some people seem to think demon psys just seal themselves with expel... just lol... my genie dun have expel)... And I do just fine in nw, tw etc etc...

Well being I'm just looked at as an idiot f:naughty according to many on the forums because I chose to NOT have r9rr gear (Im r8r because r8r can be customized, jungle belt, t2 nirvy helm & cloak), NOT to have the purify proc on my end game weapon (Im warsoul recast so people can not qq about the purify proc and because I know other classes do not need it and therefore I know I do not need it), and NOT to go sage psy (Im demon, because it fit my playstyle)... When the reasons are I do not need to choose those options as they do not fit MY playstyle nor do I need the most OP gears to beat those that DO NEED such gears...

(ta)(ta)s b:dirty b:bye

You don't really need anything to avoid the seal from expel. Most phyiscal classes have skills that can seal you which you can quickly put your expel on top and be physical immune. I do it very often as an archer vs seekers, sins, bms and other archers.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

Dylena - Raging Tide wrote: »

You don't really need anything to avoid the seal from expel. Most phyiscal classes have skills that can seal you which you can quickly put your expel on top and be physical immune. I do it very often as an archer vs seekers, sins, bms and other archers.

Well the thing is with expel on a psy... on a sage psy one just casts sage bubble of life then expel and gains physical immunity from sage's other purify while still able to cast. As a demon, I started using expel on other players but found occult ice to be more effective more often. Using expel on myself seemed great vs sins at one point (but demons can not purify it, except with psy will... but really, what is the point of doing that? Thats just silly.), but in nw and tw situations what I found was I saved my rear from the sins and physical attackers and got killed by the casters b:surrender Thus the reason my genie is expel free b:cute