Just let me QQ for a bit...

thumbs

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wizard doesn't heal better than Cleric. They have one healing skill with a long channeling time as opposed to a Cleric's diverse array of healing skills, very few of which take long to channel. Whatcha on bruh

Did I state anything to the contrary?

WenSon - Harshlands

trololol

thats why i love pvp servers

Brillance - Raging Tide

WenSon - Harshlands wrote: »

trololol

thats why i love pvp servers

This, but PvE too. b:chuckle


Quote Zan:

See, this here. This is ignorant. This is horrible advice to give. Nobody should be afraid of being kicked from a squad for any reason other than being incompetent at their class to a degree that majority of the squad they're in decide they're better off without them. You can't tell her to just make a squad all the time, if everyone followed that there would be nothing but squads of one because of people being scared to get kicked. It shouldn't be like that. This is an MMORPG, teamwork should be emphasized and encouraged regardless of gear levels or class limits. It's true sometimes making a squad is better overall for getting the results you want, but to give that as advice to avoid being kicked is a mistake. It's not some general rule to follow, if you're gonna give advice make sure it's at least good.


I agree with this, but its funny you only see it applied to certain people/classes. If I had a coin for everytime someone said, "Make your own squad" as an answer to some other person's or some other class' problem, Id have R9 already.

For some reason, I feel like marching through Arch with a sign that reads, "No justice! No peace!" b:chuckle

You would have to admit, if she did make her own squad, there is no way she could be kicked, unless she DC'd and couldnt get invited back. Ive never heard of an OP person having an issue affording teles, lol. In fact, if she doesnt like her cleric only wanting to heal one person, she could kick them. b:pleased

It might be the same drag-along cleric that I watched dance around its main in another topic. xD

Buff_me - Harshlands

PWI community gets so f*cked up. b:shocked

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

:facepalm: (at cleric/barb)

since when do barbs tank at delta? try to tank, yes, but even before r8 sales there was a pretty healthy aggro ping pong between DDs and barb while BMs stunned and me, as a psy, was running through psy will/bubble+expel/earth vectors to avoid taking any dmg for most of the time.

trololol

thats why i love pvp servers

last time I checked delta was pvp enabled.

Neferhotep - Lost City

Thats unexpected and somehow interesting to see how as soon as OP people are kicked, everyone gets angry but when people with non-OP gear are kicked its always "their" fault for not gearing up.

I do agree, your squad should have talked to you and a good squad would be open for new ways. But thats a pretty common problem.

On Morai its happening every day. When the EU servers started, many newbies began to play the game. Most of them were friends duoing everything with one playing a barb, the other cleric. So they learned how to do dungeons the old ways and never thought of a DD being the tank. When they reached the high-lvls, they still think you cannot do anything without a barb and cleric and refuse to listen.

Your squad probably never ran with people having endgame/high refined gear. Maybe the cleric didnt know you could tank yourself and didnt want some dd stealing aggro and dying, something that still happens very often with APS sin for example.

Dont get me wrong, im absolutely with you. But in the end its them having the problem later in harder dungeons. As you said youre able to duo it with a seeker.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

don't think it's a matter of OP gear, pretty sure that that cleric would insist that the barb should tank bh59 instead of a wiz or psy Xd

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

Wow... has this cleric never run Delta before, that she expects a barb will hold aggro? Or perhaps she has never played with a half-decent DD in a squad.

My psy tanked piles of stuff in her TT90 with level 95 Morai weapon on a rebirth run for chrono in the 90s. It is only common sense that if you have a powerful DD class in your squad, you cannot expect the barb to hold aggro unless the DDs stand around doing absolutely nothing.

And if it was a case of the cleric being stupidly picky and wanting squad dynamics to work her way, booting someone without a discussion is still just a jerk thing to do. Had she simply told the OP that she wanted the barb to tank, the OP could have at least switched to a crappy weapon or just attacked one mob at a time and let the barb take the rest. But the OP was given no chance to even know what the cleric wanted let alone comply with it.

There is absolutely no excuse for this behavior and I would not hesitate to blacklist her.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

last time I checked delta was pvp enabled.

It isn't, anymore. Not since they changed it so that you have to manually res.

Haila - Sanctuary

There are maybe some comments you have made, why u got kicked.
Some common sentences which can burthurt the cleric or barb are:

Hey cleric you can just bb lol
Hey cleric heal me i'm tanking lol
Hey cleric put up bb i'm tanking lol
Hey barb you dont need to round up the mobs i do it lol.

Please notice the lol in the end of the sentences XD

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

don't think it's a matter of OP gear, pretty sure that that cleric would insist that the barb should tank bh59 instead of a wiz or psy Xd

Whats wrong with that, the wiz or psy are not better tanks even in bh59. Maybe they come close if they outgear the squad XD.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It isn't, anymore. Not since they changed it so that you have to manually res.

o: guess I shouldn't have been worried when that sin left squad -apparently dc'ed- but I kept seeing flashes of him in the back (where you pull the boss) from time to time XD

Desdi - Sanctuary

Well, I never thought I'd see the day when people are being kicked for being too OP lol.

Most things have been covered already though so I don't think I need to comment further.

Untamed_pain - Archosaur

I'm with Desdi to see the day when people got kicked for being too OP


I rather be in squad with OP people then undergeared people who die every 5 seconds. b:chuckle

Although rather not have people with major attitudes either but meh if its just bh won't hurt no one.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

Well Sister_Warui, I know how you are geared... I also think I know you well enough to assume this is not a troll post and actually happened. It is their loss that they kicked you... I know I can solo through w3... I am quite sure based on your gears, that you can too. Even if it was annoying that you got kicked, laugh about it, because it is absolutely friggin hilarious that they kicked you b:laugh.

A Cleric does not need to heal the Psy (which is not likely to pull aggro off the Psy), nor do they need to BB, those are their options. It was obviously another "need a barb and cleric" cookie-cutter mindset type of people, whereas I have run that before without either.

Add to that, tank-types trying to pull the mobs almost always messes up the nice smooth flow of the mobs as they come running in welcomed by crystal light, followed by all the other aoe's after it b:sin. I personally prefer the tanks to sit back and enjoy the show, or to pick off whatever ends up remaining if they actually want to earn their keep. A nicely placed Vortex, Blade Tornado or Arma set off where the Psy is standing is even appreciated as the mobs make their way to us. Hell, one time I did w2 with 4 Sins and a Seeker, when I was a hell of a lot worse geared than now.

Hmm, now that I think of it, I might actually try 5 sins... b:pleased

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Add to that, tank-types trying to pull the mobs almost always messes up the nice smooth flow of the mobs as they come running in welcomed by crystal light, followed by all the other aoe's after it b:sin.

this. this so much. crystal light > glacial > sandburst > vector > (by now bm should have hf'ed) > stone smasher and mobs are dead without even touching you.

but I guess that if kitties don't do that they cant qq for charm/repairs costs.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wizard doesn't heal better than Cleric. They have one healing skill with a long channeling time as opposed to a Cleric's diverse array of healing skills, very few of which take long to channel. Whatcha on bruh

I do not think this was a matter of the person stating that as a Wiz, that they are better than Clerics at doing Cleric tasks in general, but that they have done better than some at least... and joking around about it.

Hell, as a Psy, I can perform a Cleric's task better than some Clerics b:chuckle... a Psy has plenty of tools with which to support others... and I am a Demon Psy... Sage Psys have the ability to perform such tasks even better than Demon Psys...

Master_Ghoul - Lost City

if it was me who was lead i would have told op player we ty her for comming but we dont need someoen who can solo duo.

and looked for someone else... weaker dd.

so it becomes a party dinamic not a faceroll.


i respect her belief tho

go go poor ppl or ppl like me who gave away the r9 armor for free

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide

Personally I prefer being in a squad of people that are appropriately geared or just slightly undergeared. It tends to be why I don't join many random squads, as there are certain people i like to quest with. I always found it annoying to have a very OP member join a squad be it a high level squad, or even like a level 90+ joining in low level BHs.

I don't care if an instance takes 20 minutes longer because we are slower, where an r9 can just run through it picking daisies and singing "I'm a Little Teacup" while barely being hit. I prefer a challenge, play to have fun, and find no fun in having others steamroll a who dungeon.

I won't complain if an OP geared member joins a squad, but I prefer to not have one.

Master_Ghoul - Lost City

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide wrote: »

Personally I prefer being in a squad of people that are appropriately geared or just slightly undergeared. It tends to be why I don't join many random squads, as there are certain people i like to quest with. I always found it annoying to have a very OP member join a squad be it a high level squad, or even like a level 90+ joining in low level BHs.

I don't care if an instance takes 20 minutes longer because we are slower, where an r9 can just run through it picking daisies and singing "I'm a Little Teacup" while barely being hit. I prefer a challenge, play to have fun, and find no fun in having others steamroll a who dungeon.

I won't complain if an OP geared member joins a squad, but I prefer to not have one.

+1 i respect that belief so much.

i been on a few of those party sadly never been lead or i prolly would have told said to op player he or she need to leave for this and that before i kick.

dont want some op player who can solo or duo to do all the work for me.

Neferhotep - Lost City

Haila - Sanctuary wrote: »

:

Hey cleric you can just bb lol
Hey cleric heal me i'm tanking lol

Somehow this two sentences made me laugh, i guess its because of that totally unfitting lol at the end. If there would be a "^^" instead of a "lol" id kick the person as well. Theres hardly anything i hate more in chat language than "^^". Its just so provocative b:angry

Whats wrong with that, the wiz or psy are not better tanks even in bh59. Maybe they come close if they outgear the squad XD.

And the point of ranged DDs tanking a bh59 instead of a melee (as long as theyre not extreme undergeared) is simply that the ranged can survive as good as a barb. While the barb has more hp, he as a melee gets way more damage than any ranged. Any AA can survive as many hits as a same-lvl barb except when fighting Zimo maybe. The barb can focus on dding and the cleric has an easier time healing someone with lesser hp, plus the fact that ranged dds can always use their sparks to purify themselves if the cleric is busy/ a mystic is healing while barbs need to have always enough chi for aggroing.

My lowbie barb with full TT70 HA set had about 9.5k HP if i remember right, and it took like 5 hits to kill him. Cleric used IHs like hell and still his HP never went over 70 % without using pots or hp skills. .
I tanked the same bosses on my Mystic and Archer and it went a lot smoother, plus the boss went down faster. Mystics and Cleric are even able to solo those bosses at low lvls with ease, while barbs would need at least crabs to do so. Its just a waste of money and damage if the barb tanks them, and its not safer at all.

Master_Ghoul - Lost City

Neferhotep - Lost City wrote: »

Somehow this two sentences made me laugh, i guess its because of that totally unfitting lol at the end. If there would be a "^^" instead of a "lol" id kick the person as well. Theres hardly anything i hate more in chat language than "^^". Its just so provocative b:angry



And the point of ranged DDs tanking a bh59 instead of a melee (as long as theyre not extreme undergeared) is simply that the ranged can survive as good as a barb. While the barb has more hp, he as a melee gets way more damage than any ranged. Any AA can survive as many hits as a same-lvl barb except when fighting Zimo maybe. The barb can focus on dding and the cleric has an easier time healing someone with lesser hp, plus the fact that ranged dds can always use their sparks to purify themselves if the cleric is busy/ a mystic is healing while barbs need to have always enough chi for aggroing.

My lowbie barb with full TT70 HA set had about 9.5k HP if i remember right, and it took like 5 hits to kill him. Cleric used IHs like hell and still his HP never went over 70 % without using pots or hp skills. .
I tanked the same bosses on my Mystic and Archer and it went a lot smoother, plus the boss went down faster. Mystics and Cleric are even able to solo those bosses at low lvls with ease, while barbs would need at least crabs to do so. Its just a waste of money and damage if the barb tanks them, and its not safer at all.

those bosses are not hard at all with a barb so safer na not really.
easy for the cleric maybe if he is vit build and lack heal power otherwise its same thing.

as for faster well maybe as a barb is not a real dd class and wont be aps at those lv.

so all in all it dont matter

Sister_Warui - Raging Tide

Ahh yeah there have been multiple questions about this being a troll post but no it is not >.< I legitimately got kicked from a squad after a silent chat/PM for taking the mobs the barb apparently should have. 1 wave before W2 bosses.

Like I said before though I would have been okay with them telling me such things way earlier in the instance. Or explaining that maybe they were teach the barb to tank so I could slow my casting speed down. Or switch weapons. on RT at least it is VERY common for high geared/OP players to have a set of weapons/armor that are more on par with average so we can play in West Gate with others or less people complaining about our DD/aggro in PvE. I know for a fact their faction TW's So they must have a few like this in the faction. Even if they did not know nothing was said about it until then.

This all still feels so surreal. But with it being that faction I suppose I should have seen something like it coming.

Also I have no idea why psys use crystal light in the beginning of the combo. Seems like such a horrible idea because you spread out the mobs for those who you do not immob. Sandburst much better to start out with imo. Gains aggro AND has a chance for phys damage evasion on top of SoS/SoV. Using it after the barb uses his aggro attacks stops it from being like a SoS thing where they walk away for 2 seconds and annoy you while barb pretends he can tank better. it gives them immob + lets you hit them so they come your way faster without walking to the other side of BB.

@Apo in particular. I have no idea how you can have so many sins around you at once. I learned how to full pull without one just so I did not have to take them in FCC.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

Sister_Warui - Raging Tide wrote: »

Also I have no idea why psys use crystal light in the beginning of the combo. Seems like such a horrible idea because you spread out the mobs for those who you do not immob.

@Apo in particular. I have no idea how you can have so many sins around you at once. I learned how to full pull without one just so I did not have to take them in FCC.

As far as why I open with crystal light in delta run waves...
1. it has our longest range. <= my bad, same range as our other spells b:embarrass
2. it hits everything between you and whatever is at the end of that range.
3. given the way the mobs naturally run out of spawn point in a mostly nice line, they perfectly set themselves up to almost all be hit by it.
4. the only drawback is yes, you end up getting hit yourself by the first 1-3 mobs in that line...
so that's why I use crystal light first in that particular instance.

it's not that I always have that many sins around me at once. That particular time was before nation wars existed... I used to run casters nirvana with any classes... yes, ANY classes... of which included physical attack classes such as sins, barbs, etc... and although they did not obviously do a lot of damage on physical immune mobs, they most likely were surprised at what they were able to do and hopefully learned their classes a little bit more in depth. It is the same idea as when I went into endless universe and took the elemental immune mobs path, I had to learn how to utilize and time the skills I have as a psy in order to have the most effect there.

On another note to those that do not like taking level 90's in their culti 39 runs, etc, etc... I absolutely agree with that. I always attempt to find squads at level and with others that actually have the quest I am doing on alts. Hell, when I was level 60-61, I trio'd culti 59 in valley of disaster with a 59 cleric and 61-62 barb (he was 1 level higher than me at the time). It took about 2 days, sleeping for a few hours in between, to complete that entire dungeon, unwined, start to finish. This was just before they added 4 hour time limits to dungeons (which I still think is ridiculous and should be done away with).

In Warui's particular case though, there is no level discrepancy.

ThanosQRC - Dreamweaver

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hell, as a Psy, I can perform a Cleric's task better than some Clerics b:chuckle... a Psy has plenty of tools with which to support others... and I am a Demon Psy... Sage Psys have the ability to perform such tasks even better than Demon Psys...

so ****ing true b:chuckle
bubble > chroma spammers, let alone metal mages...today I practically solo healed weekly sot with crystals and bubbleb:laugh

Sizzer - Raging Tide

ThanosQRC - Dreamweaver wrote: »

so ****ing true b:chuckle
bubble > chroma spammers, let alone metal mages...today I practically solo healed weekly sot with crystals and bubbleb:laugh

Wow b:surprised

Master_Ghoul - Lost City

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

As far as why I open with crystal light in delta run waves...
1. it has our longest range.
2. it hits everything between you and whatever is at the end of that range.
3. given the way the mobs naturally run out of spawn point in a mostly nice line, they perfectly set themselves up to almost all be hit by it.
4. the only drawback is yes, you end up getting hit yourself by the first 1-3 mobs in that line...
so that's why I use crystal light first in that particular instance.

it's not that I always have that many sins around me at once. That particular time was before nation wars existed... I used to run casters nirvana with any classes... yes, ANY classes... of which included physical attack classes such as sins, barbs, etc... and although they did not obviously do a lot of damage on physical immune mobs, they most likely were surprised at what they were able to do and hopefully learned their classes a little bit more in depth. It is the same idea as when I went into endless universe and took the elemental immune mobs path, I had to learn how to utilize and time the skills I have as a psy in order to have the most effect there.

On another note to those that do not like taking level 90's in their culti 39 runs, etc, etc... I absolutely agree with that. I always attempt to find squads at level and with others that actually have the quest I am doing on alts. Hell, when I was level 60-61, I trio'd culti 59 in valley of disaster with a 59 cleric and 61-62 barb (he was 1 level higher than me at the time). It took about 2 days, sleeping for a few hours in between, to complete that entire dungeon, unwined, start to finish. This was just before they added 4 hour time limits to dungeons (which I still think is ridiculous and should be done away with).

In Warui's particular case though, there is no level discrepancy.

lv GEAR is same thing in bouth cases it feel like wasting time doing nothing as the op player can duo or solo it.

that is my belief

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Master_Ghoul - Lost City wrote: »

lv GEAR is same thing in bouth cases it feel like wasting time doing nothing as the op player can duo or solo it.

that is my belief

Try being a barb in fc, pulling magic hall with out a seeker or bm or psy, and everyone else on your team has "at level gear", meaning tt70 in most cases.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

2 of the 4 full deltas I've run were jointly tanked by an r9rr psy and me + w/e other good DD there was.

idm OP people running with me if it means getting stuff done faster

Although for me full (classic, mana regen aura ) delta is basically afk from W4 to W8 barraging on eye b:laugh

On the topic of BH59, I once had a 87ish archer helping in a bh59. I was in TT70, level 70ish. Turned out I ended up tanking all the bosses, died at drake cuz lol, no purify of the DoT (barbs in sot understand what I mean). Other archer was rather surprised that I was holding aggro vs his TT80 crossbow

It pains me every time to see an archer with a TT80 crossbow instead of a wind and the clouds

Master_Ghoul - Lost City

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Try being a barb in fc, pulling magic hall with out a seeker or bm or psy, and everyone else on your team has "at level gear", meaning tt70 in most cases.

why are you picking up extremist like that ofc that gona fail.. what you expect me to believe a lv90 party still using hh70 gear.

as 80% of the frost of today is run at lv90.

you can do at 80 wish takes a bit long and ofc no barb gona pull huge pull like he was caring nirvana 3rd cast gear.

at lv 90 u only need hh80 legendery or hh90.......

at lv80 it can be hard

at lv70 yeah good luck not that it cant be done but why not wait untill at least lv80 make more sence.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

2 of the 4 full deltas I've run were jointly tanked by an r9rr psy and me + w/e other good DD there was.

idm OP people running with me if it means getting stuff done faster

Although for me full (classic, mana regen aura ) delta is basically afk from W4 to W8 barraging on eye b:laugh

On the topic of BH59, I once had a 87ish archer helping in a bh59. I was in TT70, level 70ish. Turned out I ended up tanking all the bosses, died at drake cuz lol, no purify of the DoT (barbs in sot understand what I mean). Other archer was rather surprised that I was holding aggro vs his TT80 crossbow

It pains me every time to see an archer with a TT80 crossbow instead of a wind and the clouds

sound boring to me.

why even bother doing it at all if all your gona do is fallow them like a leecher.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

Master_Ghoul - Lost City wrote: »

if it was me who was lead i would have told op player we ty her for comming but we dont need someoen who can solo duo.

and looked for someone else... weaker dd.

so it becomes a party dinamic not a faceroll.


i respect her belief tho

go go poor ppl or ppl like me who gave away the r9 armor for free

Lots of people prefer a more challenging squad and I totally understand why... RB for one is much more fun that way. And that's fine, if you tell the OP person *before* you enter the BH that you'd rather run with someone else.

What isn't fine is allowing them in, running 3/4 of the BH and then booting them right before the boss. That is uncalled for.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

Out of curiosity... what about a Psy that is HA armored, wields barb weapons and is built like a vit barb? b:chuckle Or how about a veno that is pure magic caster, no foxform, no attack pets? b:question Yes, I have characters that match these descriptions b:mischievous I really should try an HA wiz i think, might be fun too b:cute why not these rather than kicking people out of squads after the time consuming work is done? b:surrender