Light armor seekers

hitaomaru

Your opinions?

Mine is:
no reason for it, the 'increased magic resist' from light armor can be obtained with ornaments, you're only hurting yourself by sacrificing physical resistance and refine bonuses, go HA and get the extra HP and get magic resist from ornaments.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Reasons not to go LA on a seeker...

1. APS damage still won't be higher than what you can do with your skills.
2. Oh look! Now you're squishy like a Sin! b:chuckle
3. That little bit of DEX isn't helping a lot, and you just nerfed your damage output.b:sad
4. You're still going to get one-shot my that R9 Wiz/Psy. Now you might also get one-shot by BM's and other Seekers as well.b:shocked

Zheii - Archosaur

The above reasons as to why you shouldn't go LA pretty much says it all.
Although a seeker with APS is pretty OP :C
EG.
Demon seeker using R9T3 sword and Parchedblade Dance, along with having Occult Ice = almost permastun lock and ability to hit at 5aps, it pretty much **** anything 1v1. xD
(When I say APS though I mean R8R full -Int set, so you could spend billions re-rolling to get it... It's stupidly hard to get the full set with -Int, so it's not really realistic but meh :P)

Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721

Kitty sees no proper reason for going LA on seeker. It's just sacrificing defences for APS that sin does better and cheaper(from what Kitty's seen on her sin, sin's base damage with similar grade daggers as seeker's blade ish same or higher than seeker's, not to mention 1/100 the cost of getting sin 5.0APS when comparing to seeker). Kitty doesn't see how LA-seeker would survive even a moment tanking mobs even with vortex's BP heals...foxy alone

And even though Kitty likes exotic builds, LA-seeker just doesn't work.

sirrawrsalots

The fact of the matter is, you don't NEED to be a LA seeker, it's not something to focus on, you'll end up being able to wear LA anyway, so if you have it and the increased magic defense is something that will help more then the reduced defense will hurt, go for it. (Niche Role)
Don't get me wrong you're going to want HA almost all the time, but LA can be useful if you know when. I swap occasionally, but with t3 HA now I never use LA anymore.

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

Light Armor on seekers are so OP, I HIGHLY advice every seeker to go light armor or Robe.

Pros: Light Armor= You run faster, more space in inventory and you can attack quicker with melee and casts. Looks cool
Con: Robe Arcane is better, no other cons

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

You would make a light armor for the same reason as you would make a sage tt99+5 crossbow:

Full lunar gold LA, helmet + 5 rest +7, with +6 TT90 gold zerk blade with 2 water gems does not suffer pvp reduction with demon sword/blade mastery b:laugh

Salari - Raging Tide

My seeker will have la gear when ever i get it to 100, it is on my sins acc so i wont have to farm anything except the sword and chest. The hat and cape i will trade from my barbs acc, they are lunar. I think it would be interesting with more att levels as my gear is sharded dot

ZadkieI - Lost City

Zheii - Archosaur wrote: »

The above reasons as to why you shouldn't go LA pretty much says it all.
Although a seeker with APS is pretty OP :C
EG.
Demon seeker using R9T3 sword and Parchedblade Dance, along with having Occult Ice = almost permastun lock and ability to hit at 5aps, it pretty much **** anything 1v1. xD
(When I say APS though I mean R8R full -Int set, so you could spend billions re-rolling to get it... It's stupidly hard to get the full set with -Int, so it's not really realistic but meh :P)

last "APS" seeker to fight me took 45k and only was dealing 500s if that a hit on me this seeker also had R9 3 wep APS with a sword is pointless sage parchedblade procs well enough to keep up with stalagstikes CD and as for LA its also a bad idea.. 1. low pdef sins archer will kill you, 2. lacking hp from refines best bet is to if you cant or done want to get R9 NV 3 duel "swords" not blades and refine your gear to like +7 and shard with mdef rather than hp it will give you decent mdef around 6k base and you keep your pdef and hp will be around 10-11k

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You would make a light armor for the same reason as you would make a sage tt99+5 crossbow:

Full lunar gold LA, helmet + 5 rest +7, with +6 TT90 gold zerk blade with 2 water gems does not suffer pvp reduction with demon sword/blade mastery b:laugh

but you need to have equipped the kite of the kited earthguards

Ravensfeill - Archosaur

See here's the deal la pure build equals almost pure suicide unless used in certain moderation I'm creating another seeker this time based on a hybrid of space to gain Chi or rack up hits during a duel when stuff is on CDs stuff like that meat and potato is skill spam just now having the Chi the time to do stuff most great seekers seriously know their timing so that u can literally think like 12 moves ahead as far as Chi production which I honestly believe they should have added to our stances. Cloud just isn't enough think of things this way how many of u stood thanking a boss since all skills that generate Chi is on cd? Long story short hybrid 5aps to get Chi to blast metal combo with(fortifycombo ) and u can double spam ion heart and gemslash too then in mobs just switch to ha see how much space for crazy combos open up when u think of angels stun edged blur demon spark aps spam while parch is active like zheii said and 5ap kicks some butt in pve and I managed to beat a few sins bm and barb this way with my aps which I laugh cause never saw coming it's a fun build with credibly better scenarios I can get myself outta a jam more than my sage pure la is a no win just mix a hybrid la/ ha

LolyLove - Raging Tide

Still seekers with LA armor around? lol

Cantabrum - Archosaur

b:sad me never find " aps seekers " b:sad where are those 5aps seekers so can 1 shot them b:sad

WannaBM - Archosaur

Kittysama - Raging Tide wrote: »

Kitty sees no proper reason for going LA on seeker. It's just sacrificing defences for APS that sin does better and cheaper

That is the same argument people use against APS barbs. And boy can i tell you they are clueless. On the barb it creates a great versatility as we can still do the same things any barb can (pulling, tanking, aoeing) but have the added ability to kill bosses. Do the same counter arguments work for a seeker as for a barb ?

A seeker having a double set of equipment ? Do they have the same APS opportunities like a sin,BM,barb; do they get attack speed from their spark ?
Would it benefit a seeker to have APS for soloing instances ? For example a beginner level APS seeker could quickly clear FC halls and then swap APS to kill the bosses.
Maybe a well geared aps seeker could do the same in Lunar. ? Then again, i suppose an OP seeker who can solo pull lunar might also be effective enough in boss-killing without APS.

But i dont know much about seekers, i just notice the same failing arguments like they are used against APS barbs. So i aint advocating for APS seekers, just saying different arguments are needed.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

That is the same argument people use against APS barbs. And boy can i tell you they are clueless. On the barb it creates a great versatility as we can still do the same things any barb can (pulling, tanking, aoeing) but have the added ability to kill bosses. Do the same counter arguments work for a seeker as for a barb ?
Yeah basically. When my 92 barb can pull/tank twice as much as a 100+ APS barb in any given instance AND hold aggro better, I would have to say that APS barbs suck donkey balls. Barbs aren't about soloing bosses. We leave that up to the BM's because they were designed for it. Besides, all those high level APS barbs only very rarely have more hp in tiger form than mine has standing unbuffed. Which is pretty freaking sad. You want lower HP and high damage/APS with tankability, play a BM.

A seeker having a double set of equipment ? You could, but it would be rather pointless. Do they have the same APS opportunities like a sin,BM,barb; No, there's the whole weapon issue going on. do they get attack speed from their spark ? No, because if you're playing for survivability or PVE farming, you go sage. That's not even mentioning that the majority of the Demon Seeker skills suck donkey balls.
Would it benefit a seeker to have APS for soloing instances ? No, because your defense values would suffer. For example a beginner level APS seeker could quickly clear FC halls and then swap APS to kill the bosses. My seeker at 90 was able to clear the halls just as well as any 95 barb, and better than any 100+ APS barb. we're talking average Mountcrasher gear here. Nothing exceptional.
Maybe a well geared aps seeker could do the same in Lunar. ? Then again, i suppose an OP seeker who can solo pull lunar might also be effective enough in boss-killing without APS. Spend half the money on gear and you don't need to deal with the lack of damage/defense compared to attempting to go APS.

But i dont know much about seekers, i just notice the same failing arguments like they are used against APS barbs. So i aint advocating for APS seekers, just saying different arguments are needed.

Responses in blue.

Oh, and don't forget... The majority of the Seekers base defense values and the damage, is based on STR. You're nerfing that considerably when you choose LA.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Ignorant idiot.

I never die when tanking.
hold agro perfectly fine against ANY DD.
Pull full fire if i want to.
I can solo defend not only water/earth but also wood and fire.
I could have had 25k HPs instead of 22k... Big deal, dont need them.
Oh and... I can actually hit sins and archers.

Also interesting observation: Sometimes i run into people who dont want me in their squad. They havent actually been in squad with me so they base this on prejudice. Those that do squad with me often react like "O.o OMG im gonna make myself an APS barb too !"

You know about software, hardware, debugging etc. Better keep yourself to that field cuz obviously about barbs you are clueless.


If you are worrying about the statpoints, i think you are rather cleuless about seekers as well. It takes a whopping 30 more dex to wear fists than it does to wear dual swords. Still i am not claiming that seekers will benefit enough from aps to make it worth while, because i dont know enough about seekers. Just dont try to come with **** arguments because in your mind its "not supposed to be".

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

People are forever stuck in the notion that aps barbs are +3 armor pseudo-BMs from the early nirvy era, when people were using 3* OHT and G14 OHT gear, instead of the R8r -int +7 armor +10 G16 weapon monsters they are today.

Hell, the biggest reason why I dislike vit-barbs is that 14-17K HP is what people expect barbs to have, so barbs seem to like going full vit, hitting that mark and then stopping altogether and having +3 armor and +2/+1 pdef ornaments and using their HP for everything, OP top-tier catabarbs aside. Hell, most common vit barbs in NW hit me for no damage, can only hit me with flesh ream (they don't have ancestral rage, it seems), and get hit for 4-7K from my +5 G15 bow, lol.

Back on topic: LA sucks. Period. If you made an aps-seeker the only LA you'd put on is TT99 wrist and boots, at most. Still gonna use HA, but as with all cases good aps builds are expensive. This seeker will stunlock like a bauss though, vs. non-purify people ofc.

Salari - Raging Tide

ZadkieI - Lost City wrote: »

last "APS" seeker to fight me took 45k and only was dealing 500s if that a hit on me this seeker also had R9 3 wep APS with a sword is pointless sage parchedblade procs well enough to keep up with stalagstikes CD and as for LA its also a bad idea.. 1. low pdef sins archer will kill you, 2. lacking hp from refines best bet is to if you cant or done want to get R9 NV 3 duel "swords" not blades and refine your gear to like +7 and shard with mdef rather than hp it will give you decent mdef around 6k base and you keep your pdef and hp will be around 10-11k

I call troll post, my 69 vit barb can hit 500 on a r9s3 josd seeker, you dont loose that much str just to wear la gear. With my sins la gear a la seeker will exceed your base requirements and has no elemental orns. Do you people think that by going la, people automatically go all dex? are you really that naive?

With me, having my seeker wear la gear saves me farming time to make another set of gear + the refines. The main purpose for my sin having to wear my la gear is not to aps but to save me time. The minimum loss of def you loose is not so great to ignore it

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Endgame LA needs 104 DEX, endgame swords need 150-160 DEX

so gtfo trolls

Salari - Raging Tide

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Responses in blue.

Oh, and don't forget... The majority of the Seekers base defense values and the damage, is based on STR. You're nerfing that considerably when you choose LA.

I agree with the barb, your in the wrong forum. You only loose 49 str if you base the comparison just with armor when wearing la vers ha which can be gained back very easily with a tome and/or orns. You are all a bunch of trolls and have no clue about what you are talking about.

oh and see the post above me

Asishi - Archosaur

I'm just going to ignore the people ranting about barbs, because there's a forum for that. Go away.

For LA, there isn't really any good reason for a seeker to do it. If you want mediocre aps, you're nerfing both your damage and your defense to do it. If you want high aps, you'll need R8R to do it, which is HA anyway. -IF- you managed to get an obscenely lucky roll on R8R chest and boots, I could see using LA wrists and legs for the set bonus, but chances of pulling that off cheaper than ~2b (and likely higher than even that) are miniscule at best. Without that, no point. And mind you, by obscenely lucky I mean minimum of double int on both, probably triple chest, to make it viable.

Oh, and seekers are locked to swords. The only -int weapon options are R8R and OHT, and only R8R is viable in any way damage-wise.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Well, if you are stashing G16 from a LA main...http://pwcalc.com/ae22a6d995c782e6 could be decent

Salari - Raging Tide

Asishi - Archosaur wrote: »

For LA, there isn't really any good reason for a seeker to do it. If you want mediocre aps, you're nerfing both your damage and your defense to do it.

only posting about this (not aps) how do you nerf your damage when there is no stat change to wear la gear. There is not enough of a str loss from ha gear to make this claim. In my gears case my damage would be greater because my sin is a dot build. I would only need to get a chest(ha more than likely) shard with dot's and i have the exact same att level addition my sin has.

Asishi - Archosaur

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

only posting about this (not aps) how do you nerf your damage when there is no stat change to wear la gear. There is not enough of a str loss from ha gear to make this claim. In my gears case my damage would be greater because my sin is a dot build. I would only need to get a chest(ha more than likely) shard with dot's and i have the exact same att level addition my sin has.

I specifically said "if you want mediocre aps", which would be the result of non-R8R LA on a seeker. Under ~3.33 aps and there's no reason to even consider aps damage-wise (far as I remember that's around the threshold for seeker, too tired and too lazy to do the math now). The strength loss from switching HA to LA is notable, but not enough to have warranted a comment from me about it.

For the record though, I really detest LA, including sin and archer as LA classes themselves. It's mediocre defense at best, and the only real reason to use it (excluding "I already have it", "Someone loaned me it", and "I seduced it away from someone", I'm talking compared to equal refine/shard/cost HA or AA depending on class) is because it takes the fewest points away from pure damage dex weapon builds. Or of course for the interval, but that's more about specific gear than the gear type as a whole.

Salari - Raging Tide

oh yeah going la just for the aps on a seeker is not really worth it, but you can do that as ha, you dont need la to do that.

on the sin/archer gear aspect, it is the nature of those classes to have la. It would make no sense at all for them to wear ha gear. gearing for different classes comes from the nature of and beginnings of rpg's in general much less arcane. show me an archer in history that was effective with heavy armor, you wont find it, the same with an assassin. It defeats their whole purpose. the ignorance of a lot of people that detest sins for their high dps abilities comes from the game mechanics not the class. Sins skills are matched to what they are suppose to be. having a sin with low agility(dex) is absolutely worthless. you cant have fast quick strikes, quick maneuverability in heavy armor.

I also think people tend to forget ha is in reality heavy armor, not just stats to increase defences. the only reason you have higher phy defensive stats is because heavy armor is well quite literally heavier and thinker than a light armor, thus harder to penetrate. light armor is more more maneuverability and quicker movement which you cant get in heavy armor(except in game mechanics). Then you have arcane armor which is nothing more than glorified street clothes that is not even armor(generally).

Your statement really makes no sense and has no basis for it. Just based on your statement arcane classes should wear ha too since arcane has hardly any phy def compared to ha.

To me gear attributes is not a worthy reason not to choose specific gear. It is just a game after all

WannaBM - Archosaur

What i mostly wonder about are the following 2 factors:

The benefit side, how much does APS help the seeker to kill bosses ? How fast does a seeker kill bosses without APS ? And thus how much does APS really help him. For a barb it is clear, he is simply not going to solo kill a boss without APS. For a seeker, what is the difference ? Does it take 2 minutes or 20 minutes to kill ancient evil without APS ? I know seekers that actually solo lunar, but i have not seen it, i dont know how fast it goes and i dont know if they actually maybe even do use APS.

The cost side. As said, i dont know seekers. I dont know the sage vs demon choise. But this could indeed be an important downside. Unlike the insignificant 30 extra dex.


As for the equipment, you can always make the choise. Either carry 2 sets, or go for the R8r option. As a non R9.3 barb, i think you should have 2 sets. For BMs, the R8r option is more feasible since they have less need for the full HAset as they dont need to do pulling. The seeker might make this hybrid choise as well although i imagine if you really do want to solo Lunar, you might actually want to have a double set so that you can do the pulls in HA and swap to APS for the bosses. Even then of course, the APS swap could be r8r, but that gets pretty expensive.

Asishi - Archosaur

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

oh yeah going la just for the aps on a seeker is not really worth it, but you can do that as ha, you dont need la to do that.

on the sin/archer gear aspect, it is the nature of those classes to have la. It would make no sense at all for them to wear ha gear. gearing for different classes comes from the nature of and beginnings of rpg's in general much less arcane. show me an archer in history that was effective with heavy armor, you wont find it, the same with an assassin. It defeats their whole purpose. the ignorance of a lot of people that detest sins for their high dps abilities comes from the game mechanics not the class. Sins skills are matched to what they are suppose to be. having a sin with low agility(dex) is absolutely worthless. you cant have fast quick strikes, quick maneuverability in heavy armor.

I also think people tend to forget ha is in reality heavy armor, not just stats to increase defences. the only reason you have higher phy defensive stats is because heavy armor is well quite literally heavier and thinker than a light armor, thus harder to penetrate. light armor is more more maneuverability and quicker movement which you cant get in heavy armor(except in game mechanics). Then you have arcane armor which is nothing more than glorified street clothes that is not even armor(generally).

Your statement really makes no sense and has no basis for it. Just based on your statement arcane classes should wear ha too since arcane has hardly any phy def compared to ha.

To me gear attributes is not a worthy reason not to choose specific gear. It is just a game after all

I'm well aware of the origins of RPG classes. We're playing PWI. It's not about being your character. It's about doing what works. Other than stats, there isn't much of a reason to pick an armor class. LA is frankly the weakest overall. My distaste for the LA classes doesn't mean I don't understand their utility, or their traditional existence. I just think they're completely unenjoyable ****, for me.

With the exception of venomancer, there's really only one fully reasonable gear choice for every class. There are reasons to consider others, but in the end taking any non-traditional gear type for a class just ends up **** your overall utility so you can fill a niche build. It's not to say that niche isn't useful, but it's still a handicap.

Salari - Raging Tide

LA the weakest? lol what are you smoking, slide on some arcane gear then lets talk about the weakest armor.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

LA the weakest? lol what are you smoking, slide on some arcane gear then lets talk about the weakest armor.

Endgame wizard 22K HP 22K P.def 17-20K m.def 2 OP

Asishi - Archosaur

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Endgame wizard 22K HP 22K P.def 17-20K m.def 2 OP

^

Honestly though, AA isn't weak, it's just weak pdef. The only classes worth considering it for are cleric, mystic, wizard, veno, and psy. The first three have direct pdef boosts, veno has foxform, speed, and can spec reasonably for HA, and psy has white voodoo instead.

Above all else though, AA and HA both have one major advantage. They have a major strength, and ONE low end to fill. Much easier to handle reliably, much easier to fill the gap with apoth and/or ornaments when necessary, or just to adjust strategy to minimize when that's necessary. LA is mediocre on both ends, usually using phys ornaments due to interval to fill one of two gaps.

It's common knowledge LA just isn't preferred for survival. Doesn't mean the two LA classes are bad, but they're not survivors, and using that armor on other classes just ends up lending the same problem.

Salari - Raging Tide

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Endgame wizard 22K HP 22K P.def 17-20K m.def 2 OP

b:chuckle yes i know but I was referring to a la or ha class wearing arcane gear b:cute well unless you make a arcane barb like whatshisname did