Do mystics have a lack of skill on your server?

Colum - Raging Tide

This thread isnt supposed to be a Mystic vs Veno vs Cleric thread, it's rather a discussion why mystics do so many things so wrong with their gameplay.

It seems that Raging Tide has very few mystics who know what they're doing - let me explain:

1. They use Befuddling Creeper even when it's harmful for the squad

Example: A delta squad with a good Blademaster or Veno that uses GS / Myriads. Mystic throws a creeper in, tralalala, debuffs overwritten!

2. Mystics who neglect the use of Mistress and Cragglord, even Salvation

Example 1: Many of these mysts pull out a Chihyu in AoE based instances like delta, Lunar. Sure, it saves mana. No, mana is not an excuse to do your job badly.

Example 2: Mystic is a main healer but yet declines the usefulness of Sally and rather goes with their - you guessed it right! - chihyu

3. Mystics who spam Comforting Mist but do not use other heals. Do I need to say more?

4. Mystics who don't use vital herbs at AOE bosses as main healers

5. Mystics who overwrite Frighten with Spidervine on bosses that base on hard physical attack, ESPECIALLY if the sin is tanking let barb frighten

6. Mystics who don't resurrect buff members in squad. Even if it was an OP squad or even if you had two clerics, resurrect can come in handy when your squad wipes due to a failed/laggy pull, a member DCs at bad moment or both clerics happen to die again after rezzing.

Example: My mystic had a squad in 59 way back, which contained also a cleric. I gave everyone res buff. Most of squad wiped a wood valley to melee mobs - we only had casters and archer. Cleric died twice but others could still resurrect and help me to kill the mobs instead of everyone wiping

7. Mystics who claim they canno soloheal a barb or seeker in BH 69. Get physical ornaments, level your Salvation and Vital herb and try again. It's not that hard. Same goes for FC which is easier out of these two.

8. Mystics who ask a same lvl / equally geared cleric to DD. Cleric is rarely a better DD especially in AOE situations.

9. Mystics who use Chihyu for tanking instead of themselves.

And many, many other situations. I do wonder WHY mystics play their class so badly these days? Do they still have a " this class is a mixture of veno/cleric " mentality? I also assume new mystics learn from these unskilled mystics and the circle continues.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

I don't thing that mystics are less skillful than other classes, just that they are easier to notice.

Colum - Raging Tide

There are less mystics than other classes but even taking that into consideration there really is no good mystics on my server. It's actually hard to even think one and I know quite a lot mystics.

Desdi - Sanctuary

I think a lot of people play Mystics the wrong way thinking they can play them like their Venomancers or thinking that they can finally DD to their hearts content and no need to heal people anymore (being a Cleric main previously) etc. etc.

When it comes to basic things such as their Creeper's debuffs being lower than other classes though..that's something I can't explain besides pure ignorance and refusal to learn.

I can only name a few Mystics on my server that I consider good, that's probably 2-3 of them. I don't include myself since I'm not playing Mystic anymore, maybe I will in the future.

Colum - Raging Tide

I try to play my own mystic as a mystic. I throw heals here and there, maybe even soloheal but also DD in meanwhile just because I can (vital herb and salvation ftw) and use my summon as a DD when I do quests, thus I usually got mistress out. Chihyu is for stunning purposes.

Also many mystics refuse to use their AOE skills because they cannot time it right with stuns so the mobs won't flee away.

Alexis - Lothranis

Well if this was a while ago I would've said that mystic is a relatively new class so it will take time. But it's been so long and not much changed. I always said, mystic being a versatile class, besides giving you many ways to play it mostly gives you many ways to fail.

Tbh there is also a lot expected of a good mystic, relative to this game. You have to know to use your dd skils single/aoe, to know when to leave that aside and start healing and how much to heal and if u can also dd at same time, then know what pet to use or whether or not you should sacrifice it or which of its skills to use, what plant to use if any or whether or not you should lyse it , handling res' obnoxious cd etc..Compare that to let's say a sin who is considered to be a good squad member if they only deal as much dmg as they can without dying and maybe throw in a bp. Being a mystic you have to know almost every aspect of the game, excluding maybe tanking/pulling (although those also become possibilities with the right gear). Back in the day (before mystics were created) you had your sweet time learning about these things as you slowly lvld, but now, yes, you get mystics at high lvl who rushed and didn't get to learn stuff like other classes having better debuffs. Imo mystic is the worst class to plvl. You can find out these things from the forum for example but how many are visiting it, most are stuck learning from others who also don't know their stuff, as you said. And add the low population of mystics on top of that, yes, high chance you will find not very capable mystics. That's my theory at least.

I can't personally say anything about the average pve skill of mystics on my server, because, being a mystic, I rarely get to squad with other mystics.

/walloftext
._. wow someone count how many times I said mystic in this post

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

4. Mystics who don't use vital herbs at AOE bosses as main healers

Vital Herb at AoE bosses is a waste of a spark since it dies before it makes itself useful.

thumbs

All classes are played poorly; it's just more obvious with some and some just go on ignored (chromaspamming clerics for instance).

I like to kick or poke at bad players so they avoid me. The list is too long to keep track of.

Colum - Raging Tide

Alexis - Lothranis wrote: »

Vital Herb at AoE bosses is a waste of a spark since it dies before it makes itself useful.

Not all AoE bosses kill the vital herb and the ones that do are so hard that they also requie AOE heals/Sally's AOE shields.

@ Thumbs... yup, chromaspammers suck b:surrender especially at blink vile.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

especially at blink vile.

I died a little inside when a Cleric spams CHB at that boss, just like when they insist to keep putting BB up for it even though the boss keeps interrupting/sealing.

Stenzar - Sanctuary

(Sorry for my forum avatar saying I'm Sanctuary: my main is actually a 101 Mystic on Raging Tides named Eryialne.)

I think Mystics have a terrible lack of skill, in general, on Raging Tides. And it's a shame, because I love playing Mystic so much, and yet no one wants Mystics in a squad except for my faction-mates who have seen how great Mystic can sometimes be thanks to me.

But yet, I understand why no one wants a Mystic in their squad (in Raging Tides at least). I cringe often when I watch other Mystics. They don't take a pet out ("pets r useless") b:shocked . They don't buff with resurrect, they don't heal, or they only sit and spam Nature's Vengeance. It's painful to watch!

My favorite part of Mystic was impressing people as I leveled up b:laugh solo-healing things and blowing people's minds because a Mystic could actually be a great healer. Not only that, but I loved dueling and I caught many people off guard and won, even against higher levels!

But, now that I've gotten to 101, I find that things just aren't the same. I can't really impress people anymore, because my skill doesn't really help me much anymore. I'm not wanted as a "healer", I'm wanted as a back up DD if an Assassin, Blademaster, Venomancer, or Seeker simply can't be found anywhere. The other two spots of course are Barbarian and Cleric. No exceptions b:cry

So, I guess what I'm saying is: it's little wonder there are so few good Mystics!

I must admit, I feel like a fish out of water whenever I'm taken onto a squad as a DD slot. Especially in a AoE situation. I've been yelled at for a multitude of things, so I have to play it safe and rely on Storm's AoE and Cragglord's two AoE's while Lysing Bufuddling helps the rest of the squad's AoE's. A lot of times, since I get yelled at for using Gale Force, I feel like a waste of a slot b:cry . And I want to use Gale Force because it sure does quite a bit better damage than Storm's AoE, and even better: it has a shorter cooldown. Oh, and even better than that: while in BB, I don't die, while Storm Mistress dies easily. Cragglord is all around awesome though; it's a shame he's only 20 seconds.


TL:DR;

Mystic is my favorite class to play, but I fully understand why so few people want them in squads:

1. High chance that it's a total failure of a Mystic
2. Single target damage that pales in comparison to other, more popular DD's
3. A main AoE attack that has a fairly decent chance of making mobs run away, hindering the "stronger" DD's
4. Heals that don't have a "Half Damage taken" effect, unlike Cleric
5. Debuffs that, if used, overwrite the Barbarian or Assassin's better debuffs (I learned that after being yelled at so many times)

Alexis - Lothranis

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Not all AoE bosses kill the vital herb and the ones that do are so hard that they also requie AOE heals/Sally's AOE shields.

The ones that do such low damage that they don't even kill a plant definitely don't require you to use a spark.

thumbs

Was a single example

Range dd that pull mobs from lured group then leave drops behind squad
Assassins and BMs that chase ranged mobs around in RB
Melee that melee BH SoT boss
Psys that seal mobs in BH metal or don't seal them for wiz tank in RB
Assassins that don't subsea or power dash
Ranged dd that would range tank aoe stunners in old aba
4.xK hp clerics that put RA right at mouth of or middle of womb of RB spawn
Toons that can't cooperate with those clerics that don't put bb where they tell them to
Archers that are afraid to hit Snakefist first
Sins and BMs that pull runners in metal
Ranged dd that die on short ranged aoe
That idiot that pulls those mobs you can sneak by in BH SoT
The squad maker that's last to enter instance
Any 100+ mage with less than 8k MP
The jerk that sits there 1-1 the boss in RB when the others retreat to finish
The jerk with aggro that kills the boss on the hill
The dd that can't tank 3 hits but goes around aggroing mobs you don't need
The cleric that stays with the apsidiot that 1-1's a mob while everyone else goes to aoe
The cleric that heals an assassin that clearly doesn't need it
The cleric that sets up RA at helltoads
The archer that aims Vile Snakefist at and pulls to cleric in RA
The assassin that dies on Snakefist and the squad for waiting
90%+ of the people who make lunar squads
The barbs that interrupt a ranged boss pull on time sensitive bosses
Barbs that can never keep aggro against even sins in Rebirth on multiple mobs and barely aoe
Barbs that ream instead of devour, devour +ream, devour + ream + stomp

Don't know about your sever, but HT is filled with all kinds of stupid.

Stenzar - Sanctuary wrote: »

But yet, I understand why no one wants a Mystic in their squad (in Raging Tides at least). I cringe often when I watch other Mystics. They don't take a pet out ("pets r useless") b:shocked . They don't buff with resurrect, they don't heal, or they only sit and spam Nature's Vengeance. It's painful to watch!

Part of why I make squads is so I can kick deadbeats.

Stenzar - Sanctuary wrote: »

But, now that I've gotten to 101, I find that things just aren't the same. I can't really impress people anymore, because my skill doesn't really help me much anymore. I'm not wanted as a "healer", I'm wanted as a back up DD if an Assassin, Blademaster, Venomancer, or Seeker simply can't be found anywhere. The other two spots of course are Barbarian and Cleric. No exceptions b:cry

I sometimes avoid squads that request specifically for a Seeker, Barb, etc because it tells me they either have scrubs in the squad or the leader is lacking knowledge or something. Make your own squads. When I can't find a cleric for RB: I summon mine to buff then solo heal it.

So, I guess what I'm saying is: it's little wonder there are so few good Mystics!

Correction: there are so few good players. It's not like mystic can derpa derpa aps, throw up dragon's breath, or regeneration aura.

Stenzar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I must admit, I feel like a fish out of water whenever I'm taken onto a squad as a DD slot.

BH SoT is so much faster with less melee. Mystic are one of the best 1-1 mag dd, and good ones provide Invigorate for that better form of dd. They can fill any role in RB whether it's tank, healer, or dd or all 3 at once. Mystic is one of my first choices for most BH squads. There's a few I keep track of and avoid, but most are better than the average assassin or bm (these two classes are way over rated).

[*]A main AoE attack that has a fairly decent chance of making mobs run away, hindering the "stronger" DD's

I play a BM, Barb, and 2 Assassins daily. I encourage mystics to use GF in RB, but not metal (unless they're pulling / catching) . I've kicked a mystic for refusing to use GF in RB. Melee classes can learn to work with it.

Maybe on my first week of playing mystic; I was told not to use GF, but only one time since then has anyone complained. I obliged since they were leader of the squad; others in the squad complained and told me to GF. I didn't. We barely made it through as a result. I wonder if that leader learned anything when all of the sudden it took over 2x as long to kill waves.

It seems the only way to get most players on here to learn anything is to coerce them into it and make them suffer consequences of their decisions.

revkhawlah

Can't agree more on what the op said, I just got in a bh w2 squad that had a myst with only chihyu out and just spamming nvb:surrender

b:surrender Squad leader ended up asking me if mysts have aoe skills at all.

Eryialne - Raging Tide

thumbs wrote: »

Part of why I make squads is so I can kick deadbeats.

True. That's always nice. I've actually been starting my own squads recently since I'm getting so sick and tired of being ignored for things.

thumbs wrote: »

Correction: there are so few good players. It's not like mystic can derpa derpa aps, throw up dragon's breath, or regeneration aura.

Ok, I have to agree on that: Mystic is very active if you want to be good at it. A lot of people just can't handle it.

thumbs wrote: »

Mystic are one of the best 1-1 mag dd, and good ones provide Invigorate for that better form of dd. They can fill any role in RB whether it's tank, healer, or dd or all 3 at once. Mystic is one of my first choices for most BH squads.

Hehe. I wish others had your view on Mystics. I dunno...I mean, I finally got the badges to upgrade my T2 Wand into T3, and then I made it +5, but I still feel like I pale in comparison to a psychic or a wizard in damage. Maybe I'm wrong. Also, I'm still working on Invigorate b:chuckle I want it so badly lol. (got my Lumi skills first)

thumbs wrote: »

I encourage mystics to use GF in RB, but not metal (unless they're pulling / catching) . I've kicked a mystic for refusing to use GF in RB. Melee classes can learn to work with it.

Maybe on my first week of playing mystic; I was told not to use GF, but only one time since then has anyone complained. I obliged since they were leader of the squad; others in the squad complained and told me to GF. I didn't. We barely made it through as a result. I wonder if that leader learned anything when all of the sudden it took over 2x as long to kill waves.

Wow. Even now, without fail, if I use Gale Force I can expect members of my squad to jump down my throat b:shocked I wish I could use it for some extra DD...

thumbs

Eryialne - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wow. Even now, without fail, if I use Gale Force I can expect members of my squad to jump down my throat b:shocked I wish I could use it for some extra DD...

Just did a wave 3 run and was asked for the second time today "no barb, or bm"? -I'm getting so annoyed with the cut and paste squad setups. The wiz who complained was surprised their charm wasn't ticking, and it was a smooth run. -Thanks to a mystic, psy, archer, and capable cleric.

Do people realize that half the BMs are counter-productive in RB, suck as dd, and the average HF lasts a mere 6 seconds? Do they realize that most barbs are getting away with barely AoE'ing? Then there was that seeker that took my wiz today then requested a sin for last spot (and he didn't even tank). -He should have got a mystic, psy or any class that can seal frequently.

This thread should be in the general forum.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

...Mobs sealing is one of the main reasons why Mystics should not use gale force...the more mobs run around the longer it takes to kill them.

Yea HF is 6 seconds. During which a half-*** competent squad should already have wiped the mobs with mire/subsea/HF/votex/arma

seriously, how does a 6-9 second 200% damage amp count as counter-productive? Oh wait your mystic gale force and waste all of the squad's debuffs lol? b:laugh

thumbs

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...Mobs sealing is one of the main reasons why Mystics should not use gale force...the more mobs run around the longer it takes to kill them.

I've shown enough people wrong on that point to pretty much not be told to stop doing it anymore.

Yea HF is 6 seconds. During which a half-*** competent squad should already have wiped the mobs with mire/subsea/HF/votex/arma

Maybe in your world of R9s3+12

seriously, how does a 6-9 second 200% damage amp count as counter-productive? Oh wait your mystic gale force and waste all of the squad's debuffs lol? b:laugh

Fail reading comprehension. They are counter-productive for chasing ranged mobs around which scatters them. Ranged dd should get them but stupid bms and sins (about half of them) think it's their job or something.

Only a small amount of mobs get sealed and made to move. With Lucky Break: GF is very hard hitting consistent dmg. Most AoE dds are still hitting the mobs when they move including Storm Mistress.

I can't say in all situations that it's good for mystic to use GF, but in most I encounter and with my mystic; it's well worth using.

Safeng - Sanctuary

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yea HF is 6 seconds. During which a half-*** competent squad should already have wiped the mobs with mire/subsea/HF/votex/arma

I dunno, but my all-crit gale force is probably included in that damage. Stop with the "OMG don't seal" **** unless you got a clue.


To the OP, yes. Ironically I've seen so many terrible mystics around that it's not even fun anymore. I can name like ...3? who really impressed me. That's sad. lol

Colum - Raging Tide

I died a little inside when a Cleric spams CHB at that boss, just like when they insist to keep putting BB up for it even though the boss keeps interrupting/sealing.

Yup and when I asked IH cleric replies " I'm third oldest cleric on server it's **** to ask me IH " b:surrender

(Sorry for my forum avatar saying I'm Sanctuary: my main is actually a 101 Mystic on Raging Tides named Eryialne.)

Think I've seen you before

I think Mystics have a terrible lack of skill, in general, on Raging Tides. And it's a shame, because I love playing Mystic so much, and yet no one wants Mystics in a squad except for my faction-mates who have seen how great Mystic can sometimes be thanks to me.

But yet, I understand why no one wants a Mystic in their squad (in Raging Tides at least). I cringe often when I watch other Mystics. They don't take a pet out ("pets r useless") . They don't buff with resurrect, they don't heal, or they only sit and spam Nature's Vengeance. It's painful to watch!

My favorite part of Mystic was impressing people as I leveled up solo-healing things and blowing people's minds because a Mystic could actually be a great healer. Not only that, but I loved dueling and I caught many people off guard and won, even against higher levels!

I like this too. I remember people being impressed when I told I can soloheal BH 69

But, now that I've gotten to 101, I find that things just aren't the same. I can't really impress people anymore, because my skill doesn't really help me much anymore. I'm not wanted as a "healer", I'm wanted as a back up DD if an Assassin, Blademaster, Venomancer, or Seeker simply can't be found anywhere. The other two spots of course are Barbarian and Cleric. No exceptions

It's quite sad. I take skilled mystics as main healers.

So, I guess what I'm saying is: it's little wonder there are so few good Mystics!

I must admit, I feel like a fish out of water whenever I'm taken onto a squad as a DD slot. Especially in a AoE situation. I've been yelled at for a multitude of things, so I have to play it safe and rely on Storm's AoE and Cragglord's two AoE's while Lysing Bufuddling helps the rest of the squad's AoE's. A lot of times, since I get yelled at for using Gale Force, I feel like a waste of a slot . And I want to use Gale Force because it sure does quite a bit better damage than Storm's AoE, and even better: it has a shorter cooldown. Oh, and even better than that: while in BB, I don't die, while Storm Mistress dies easily. Cragglord is all around awesome though; it's a shame he's only 20 seconds.


TL:DR;

Mystic is my favorite class to play, but I fully understand why so few people want them in squads:
High chance that it's a total failure of a Mystic
Single target damage that pales in comparison to other, more popular DD's
A main AoE attack that has a fairly decent chance of making mobs run away, hindering the "stronger" DD's
Heals that don't have a "Half Damage taken" effect, unlike Cleric
Debuffs that, if used, overwrite the Barbarian or Assassin's better debuffs (I learned that after being yelled at so many times)

Alexis - Lothranis wrote: »

The ones that do such low damage that they don't even kill a plant definitely don't require you to use a spark.

Eh, I heal in FC with a vital herb on AOE bosses which allows me to DD nicely in meanwhile and put it down again when it's off from cooldown. As a main healer I don't see any other reason to use a spark for. Also vital herb is pretty spammable.

thumbs wrote: »

Was a single example

Range dd that pull mobs from lured group then leave drops behind squad
Assassins and BMs that chase ranged mobs around in RB
Melee that melee BH SoT boss
Psys that seal mobs in BH metal or don't seal them for wiz tank in RB
Assassins that don't subsea or power dash
Ranged dd that would range tank aoe stunners in old aba
4.xK hp clerics that put RA right at mouth of or middle of womb of RB spawn
Toons that can't cooperate with those clerics that don't put bb where they tell them to
Archers that are afraid to hit Snakefist first
Sins and BMs that pull runners in metal
Ranged dd that die on short ranged aoe
That idiot that pulls those mobs you can sneak by in BH SoT
The squad maker that's last to enter instance
Any 100+ mage with less than 8k MP
The jerk that sits there 1-1 the boss in RB when the others retreat to finish
The jerk with aggro that kills the boss on the hill
The dd that can't tank 3 hits but goes around aggroing mobs you don't need
The cleric that stays with the apsidiot that 1-1's a mob while everyone else goes to aoe
The cleric that heals an assassin that clearly doesn't need it
The cleric that sets up RA at helltoads
The archer that aims Vile Snakefist at and pulls to cleric in RA
The assassin that dies on Snakefist and the squad for waiting
90%+ of the people who make lunar squads
The barbs that interrupt a ranged boss pull on time sensitive bosses
Barbs that can never keep aggro against even sins in Rebirth on multiple mobs and barely aoe
Barbs that ream instead of devour, devour +ream, devour + ream + stomp

Don't know about your sever, but HT is filled with all kinds of stupid.

Wow, I havent see all of that stuff happen in my squads. In our server sins, seekers, barbs and mysts seem to slack the most. I bolded the ones I haven't seen to happen.

Part of why I make squads is so I can kick deadbeats.

Yup this is why I form most of my squads

I sometimes avoid squads that request specifically for a Seeker, Barb, etc because it tells me they either have scrubs in the squad or the leader is lacking knowledge or something. Make your own squads. When I can't find a cleric for RB: I summon mine to buff then solo heal it.

b:victory No need for specific classes, just jobs fullfilled

Correction: there are so few good players. It's not like mystic can derpa derpa aps, throw up dragon's breath, or regeneration aura.



BH SoT is so much faster with less melee. Mystic are one of the best 1-1 mag dd, and good ones provide Invigorate for that better form of dd. They can fill any role in RB whether it's tank, healer, or dd or all 3 at once. Mystic is one of my first choices for most BH squads. There's a few I keep track of and avoid, but most are better than the average assassin or bm (these two classes are way over rated).

I play a BM, Barb, and 2 Assassins daily. I encourage mystics to use GF in RB, but not metal (unless they're pulling / catching) . I've kicked a mystic for refusing to use GF in RB. Melee classes can learn to work with it.

Maybe on my first week of playing mystic; I was told not to use GF, but only one time since then has anyone complained. I obliged since they were leader of the squad; others in the squad complained and told me to GF. I didn't. We barely made it through as a result. I wonder if that leader learned anything when all of the sudden it took over 2x as long to kill waves.

It seems the only way to get most players on here to learn anything is to coerce them into it and make them suffer consequences of their decisions.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...Mobs sealing is one of the main reasons why Mystics should not use gale force...the more mobs run around the longer it takes to kill them.

Yea HF is 6 seconds. During which a half-*** competent squad should already have wiped the mobs with mire/subsea/HF/votex/arma

seriously, how does a 6-9 second 200% damage amp count as counter-productive? Oh wait your mystic gale force and waste all of the squad's debuffs lol? b:laugh

You can GF if you use it on ranged mobs (and try to make them run towards squad) or if you can time it with a stun. I also use GF as a life saver if puller or main AOE DD is about to die. It helps sometimes on melee mobs but NEVER EVER GF magic mobs that are on a barb... b:cry

Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721

Hmm hmm hmm, how Kitty should start this...

Majority of mystics obviously seem to fail badly on RT. When some mystic has joined FC squad as solo-healer, Kitty usually asks if they have leveled their Vital herb. Too many times the answer has been no, sometimes it has not been learned at all even at 80+. They instead heal using spells(oh the waste of good DD), and maybe use that effin Befuddler which has already been mentioned so many times dearingly. But it nerfs some better debuffs so well f:cute

Why Vital herb is so important, at least in FC?
Vital herb's heals are the thing that lets mystic heal Diabolic Shocktrooper in FC successfully far earlier than clerics, for example. Vital herb lets mystic concentrate on DDing as it's a good healer for many single-target bosses too. Vital herb can be so good healer that mystic can even summon Storm Mistress to deal far more damage on those [?]-bosses. Vital herb lets mystic concentrate on healing tank by doing the AoE-healing for others. Vital herb also adds a lot to mystic's AoE heal potential that's needed when killing masses of mobs.
Use Spidervine on pulls along with Vital herb and you have some kind of mystic-BB while being still able to move and throw other spells, maybe use Comforting Mist to have mystic-BB's power surpass cleric's. If situation starts getting dirty Gale Force saves as though some mobs run away from AoE range, it gives some time to get tank's HP back up and face the remaining mobs instead of dying before majority of mobs are dead.

About mystics and their "bad" damage...
If any mystic says mystic does bad damage compared to other classes, Kitty says that mystic is talking bull****. Kitty's during last 24 hrs tested mystic's spike damage compared to others on power rankings and it does exactly as high spikes as clerics, wizards and psychics with similar gears and level. With pet mystic's consistent damage ish higher than any of those, otherwise about same level. Venomancer does a bit higher spikes(all because of Amp) and with evolved pets probably higher consistent damage too.
Kitty tested these by using the same gears on them all(FC Gold Glaive+4, except FC Gold Soulsphere+4 on psy) and by using basic attacks one would use for consistent damage and digging the highest possible spike from them all(that 5% crit rate with critty rings made that take some time to accomplish).
They all did about 102-108k spike damage with about best possible combo available for them at early 90s. HA-veno did that damage too, so Kitty assumes pure magic veno's spike ish probably higher than those, having good debuffs but being otherwise a bit less useful for being the only caster with only self-heals.

How mystics do high damage, then?
Mystics have some fancy skills like Energy Leech and Rapid Growth. Leeching Storm Mistress and triple-sparking makes mystic do very high damage with high speed(30-40k hits with Nature's Vengeange at 90s, enough said of damage potential?). Rapid Growth also gives nice attack bonus of 100% weapon damage and speeds up channeling with relatively low chi cost. These used well makes mystic shine as DD. Not to mention Craggie's nerfless damage on bosses.

And Kitty's observing mystic from quite neutral view like all other classes too. Kitty considers them all her mains so Kitty doesn't have class-colored glasses much unlike most.

CapnK - Sanctuary

It's more like does every class have a lack of skill. BMs that use Glacial Spike? Barbs that use Frighten? What are these strange things you mention?

Stenzar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Single target damage that pales in comparison to other, more popular DD's

What? Mystic beats all other equally geared casters at damage per second (not damage per hit, that's different) on single targets. I'm at the point with G16 weapon that I even beat aps BMs for agro - only sins still hold agro on me.

The Gale Force thing is situational. Generally Gale Force should not be used in Lunar (all mobs are immune to freeze and slow, they WILL run) or Delta (your pets do way more damage than you do). In other instances it shouldn't be a big issue, there won't be a significant number of mobs running.

klys

your pets do way more damage than you do

don't make me boobsmack you

thumbs

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

What? Mystic beats all other equally geared casters at damage per second (not damage per hit, that's different) on single targets.

For the general player I think this may be true, however is it true if they resort to channeling pots and genie chi skills? DD isn't the only factor in how long it takes to kill a boss. Mystic has one of the worst max HP debuffs, and the worst mdef/pdef debuffs (if single target). That said: People in caster nirvana squad didn't want my wiz, veno, cleric near as much as they wanted my mystic. Runs were much faster on it.

The target makes a difference. BH SoT boss, BH metal mobs, etc. Some people appear to have not noticed the extreme extent that the devs went to to gimp apsidiots. It's now our job to stop tolerating their derpa derpa mindless ways.

I'm at the point with G16 weapon that I even beat aps BMs for agro - only sins still hold agro on me.

I abandoned aps on BM because it was a joke: They sucked at 1-1, and AoE. When it came to 1-1; all we normally need is HF / GS for the real 1-1 dds. Selling off aps gear can cover the cost of demon HF, and or much better survival gear. Playing w/o aps can get tedious but I think it's a better path for general use.

The Gale Force thing is situational.

^^ Agree and mentioned that also.

Generally Gale Force should not be used in Lunar (all mobs are immune to freeze and slow, they WILL run) or Delta (your pets do way more damage than you do).

In Lunar, if I'm on Mystic: I'm often the puller. - GF is a must for pulling. As we already agreed: situational! How many others have done ranged only runs? In Delta the pets do piddly dmg compared to GF for me. I think you missed the part where GF can keep tanks alive, reduce repair costs, and save the squad's MP by killing faster. I couldn't imagine solo healing or mystic tanking/ solo healing a Delta w/o GF.

In other instances it shouldn't be a big issue, there won't be a significant number of mobs running.

Other players are so derp 1-1 oriented that I don't get much chance to learn where to use it and where not to.

I think Heaven's Tear has many good (not great) mystics. There are a few to be totally avoided but in general they are far more valuable than the average Assassin or BM. They are often hindered by the apsidiots who tell them not to do what they (apsidiots) tend to suck at doing (AoE). Maybe it is a server thing. I can only think of one mystic off hand that I will not run Delta with, and there's a chance they'll learn because of the time I kicked them, or the time I said they were useless and suggested they be kicked; so they left.

Despite the cleric class being babied and prized: I'm gonna boldly say this: They suck in general compared to mystics at least on HT. ~95% of them apparently don't have dimensional or elemental seal. 95% of them can't distinguish who is tanking so they chromaspam. They heal my 10k HP+(unbuffed) +12 weapon sins who haven't gone down 5% in HP, they set up RA at the edge of the womb in Delta, They start their buff macro when I'm already half way through cleric buffing the squad, one made me run all the way to spawn point to get buffs then return to open and then asked me where I was and threatened to leave (today). The majority of clerics on HT suck hardcore. I can't say the same for mystics.

People seem to be ignorant about why I hate vit builds / vit recommendation so much: It's mostly because of this Cleric class that has become a waste of squad space because of their advice.

Zoldi - Morai

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

What? Mystic beats all other equally geared casters at damage per second (not damage per hit, that's different) on single targets. I'm at the point with G16 weapon that I even beat aps BMs for agro - only sins still hold agro on me.
.

True ! And there you're only talking about damage considered in the aggro calculating list but for mystics when compared to a wizard you should add all the damage done by the mistress for example.
If you ask to a mystic, a wizard and a psy (equally geared) to solo the same boss, the mystic will kill it faster than the other ones.

Ok a wizzy as very huge damage skills but the channeling is not the same and people tend to forget that. Plus the fact than we can use "adds".

Xyrika - Archosaur

Sorry to say so, but I feal like Colum, when I play with other mystic's on my server too...

Things I see often:
- no summon at all. Which hurts really a lot to see: No Summon at all in Delta("The summon will be killed first by the mobs"). Really a Myst that doesn't use Storm mistress or Cragglord in Delta is a fail (my opinion)

- mystics that use healing plant all the time but no Vital Herb. The amount of healing from healing herb is just funny, but 100 HP all once in a while is just funny...

- mystics that only use Salvation. I have seen mystics that only heal and therefor use salvation all the time, but only once in a while use the summon to buff. but if they would have a Devil out it would be at least a bit dmg..

- opposite side: Mystics that only DD. A Mystic have a lot of healing skills and there are situations a simple heal would save someone.. But these mystics just don't look on the HP of others.

I think that's maybe because most ppl tend to play a mystic not as a mystic but the class they played before, like the healing myst most likely has a Cleric alt or the DD-myst a Wiz/Psych/veno. Really a pitty if there would be more good mysts on my server I maybe wouldn't have the trouble finding squats...

Jaiden_/ - Sanctuary37

Yeah this is a unfortunate high number of bad mystics out there. My opinions is myst shouldn't be your first class as you need to know about all other classes and what they can do so you don't nerf their stronger debuffs and ect. I've taken another step to deal with running into bad mystics. If we know so much about how one should play why don't we teach them a few things instead of hammering them then kicking them from squad.

I was in fc and there was a myst not doing their job properly. A squad mate threaten to kick her and being harsh about it. I simply told everyone to calm down it is a learning experience and told her a few tips or do what I do. Problem solved one less bad mystic on the server who maybe will teach others. We attack no skilled players but we don't bother to help improve them. Ijs if we have the knowledge of what others don't who should we really be upset with?

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

For the general player I think this may be true, however is it true if they resort to channeling pots and genie chi skills? DD isn't the only factor in how long it takes to kill a boss. Mystic has one of the worst max HP debuffs, and the worst mdef/pdef debuffs (if single target). That said: People in caster nirvana squad didn't want my wiz, veno, cleric near as much as they wanted my mystic. Runs were much faster on it.

The target makes a difference. BH SoT boss, BH metal mobs, etc. Some people appear to have not noticed the extreme extent that the devs went to to gimp apsidiots. It's now our job to stop tolerating their derpa derpa mindless ways.



I abandoned aps on BM because it was a joke: They sucked at 1-1, and AoE. When it came to 1-1; all we normally need is HF / GS for the real 1-1 dds. Selling off aps gear can cover the cost of demon HF, and or much better survival gear. Playing w/o aps can get tedious but I think it's a better path for general use.



^^ Agree and mentioned that also.



In Lunar, if I'm on Mystic: I'm often the puller. - GF is a must for pulling. As we already agreed: situational! How many others have done ranged only runs? In Delta the pets do piddly dmg compared to GF for me. I think you missed the part where GF can keep tanks alive, reduce repair costs, and save the squad's MP by killing faster. I couldn't imagine solo healing or mystic tanking/ solo healing a Delta w/o GF.



Other players are so derp 1-1 oriented that I don't get much chance to learn where to use it and where not to.

I think Heaven's Tear has many good (not great) mystics. There are a few to be totally avoided but in general they are far more valuable than the average Assassin or BM. They are often hindered by the apsidiots who tell them not to do what they (apsidiots) tend to suck at doing (AoE). Maybe it is a server thing. I can only think of one mystic off hand that I will not run Delta with, and there's a chance they'll learn because of the time I kicked them, or the time I said they were useless and suggested they be kicked; so they left.

Despite the cleric class being babied and prized: I'm gonna boldly say this: They suck in general compared to mystics at least on HT. ~95% of them apparently don't have dimensional or elemental seal. 95% of them can't distinguish who is tanking so they chromaspam. They heal my 10k HP+(unbuffed) +12 weapon sins who haven't gone down 5% in HP, they set up RA at the edge of the womb in Delta, They start their buff macro when I'm already half way through cleric buffing the squad, one made me run all the way to spawn point to get buffs then return to open and then asked me where I was and threatened to leave (today). The majority of clerics on HT suck hardcore. I can't say the same for mystics.

People seem to be ignorant about why I hate vit builds / vit recommendation so much: It's mostly because of this Cleric class that has become a waste of squad space because of their advice.

Man so much sin hate, pull the stick out ur ***.b:angry My sage sin, w/o chill in aps gear does 65k crits on average in delta per aoe. So when you say we can't aoe for ****, i think you need to get your facts straight. I'm not even gonna talk about how much damage i do with chill and r9 armors (dont have the wep yet). But its in the 150k crit per aoe, and my crit rate is normally about 74% after powerdash.b:chuckle

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

If you got either Sage/Demon Gale force then the sealing becomes much less of an issue, but meh, I agree; if you have OP weapon, lucky gale is teh **** when the sealing isn't a problem.

Worst thing I've seen with sealing was BH metal with a mix TT90/G15 squad where we were going group by group, and the mob I had barrage on got sealed and ran away and walked into the next group with my barrage still on it. That group had 2 sac. *** and we almost wiped.

Have to agree with Dion that Sin aoe is really good, even if they have only 2 and a half (toxic is only frontal and hits piddly damage) aoes. One of them is an aoe 30-50% amp that stacks with HF/mire/myriad and the other is a mother****ing 400-430% weapon damage + base physical damage + 30-35 extra attack levels from CotD that pretty much will zerkcrit if your dags have zerk (sick damage even with G15/R8r zerk, not to mention R9rr zerk)

I don't think any other class can do something close to trip spark-harmony-powerdash-RDS-subsea-earthen rift-toxic current-bramble rage for lawltastic burst aoe damage

As for abandoning APS on your BM, just because you don't out-dps sins...

You still outdps axes lol; you still contribute greatly to group DD.

Unless you rolling + 10 deicides vs. R9rr axes

And your APS lets you comfortably farm TT (if you don't have an OP farmer sin to begin with) for the cost of Demon HF.

Lyrynx - Momaganon

Jaiden_/ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah this is a unfortunate high number of bad mystics out there. My opinions is myst shouldn't be your first class as you need to know about all other classes and what they can do so you don't nerf their stronger debuffs and ect. I've taken another step to deal with running into bad mystics. If we know so much about how one should play why don't we teach them a few things instead of hammering them then kicking them from squad.

I was in fc and there was a myst not doing their job properly. A squad mate threaten to kick her and being harsh about it. I simply told everyone to calm down it is a learning experience and told her a few tips or do what I do. Problem solved one less bad mystic on the server who maybe will teach others. We attack no skilled players but we don't bother to help improve them. Ijs if we have the knowledge of what others don't who should we really be upset with?

agree
however mystic was my 1st class and i feel because of that i never played her as veno/cleric, i think this gave me an advantage.
In momaganon, there were v few op mystics imo, majority were simply ok players, not making the most out of their skills but not doing much wrong. since the merge it has been my pleasure and delight to find that the image of mystics has improved vastly among random squads and people are more flexible about taking mystics they dont know i.e. asking for 'healer' or 'mystic/cleric' rather than 'last spot cleric only'

OptiMystic - Raging Tide

When I was running fc90+ I always were the only healer.But ppl somehow discriminate mystics for fc,I mean,somebody wcs:LFM fc90+ cleric+aoe dd. I pm the person and say:Im mystic and can heal,the person replies:Srry squad wants a cleric 4 buffs. I mean come on,a squad at 90lv is depending on buffs... After a succesfull run,yes they invited me ,cuz we have lack of clerics,they are all sayin im a good healer and are addin me friend list.Theres another thing,some dont want us as aoe dds,we have befudling creeper,storm mistress,gale force,+if needed I always throw in quick heals,falling petals-somethin like ih.
Mystics are always being looked down on.4 example,I have hard time gettin in bh snake squads,no response most of the time.But when I link my r9t3+10 weap..VOILA! Instant invite... Thats just wrong and im not braggin with my weap,but its the only way to get in some squads,mostly snake and lunar. f:angry

Desdi - Sanctuary

OptiMystic - Raging Tide wrote: »

But when I link my r9t3+10 weap..VOILA! Instant invite... Thats just wrong and im not braggin with my weap,but its the only way to get in some squads,mostly snake and lunar. f:angry

One of these days I'm going to whisper someone to get in squad and they'll ask me to link my weapon. I'll link some lowbie weapon and then link my r999 one and when they invite me, I'm gonna deny. f:laugh

But it is quite sad.