APS-HA-Veno

Kiszmet - Heavens Tear

thumbs wrote: »

As a pure mag / pve only; I use all the aoes. Malefic Crush is very noticeable and I was often asked what that skill was.


They do *currently* benefit from Str which should come with aps build.

Didn't really mean to post all that to get into a discussion about it. Was more to point out that there was no actual argument to the person I replied to. The topic has been beaten into the ground. There's a reason the majority of us are still primarily casters.

Correct on all accounts, though I was referring primarily to PvE since this is about APS. In PvP all but mist are too expensive to cast with too little a result. You could hope for that -100% defense curse with rainbow... but at 800 mana and 20 chi a cast.... eh.

They do benefit from STR but APS is about attacking with as many attacks as possible and slowing down to cast a mist or a crush would actually hamper damage, not increase it.

I wasn't trying to argue with you per se. Merely trying to correct an oft made assumption that foxes don't have damage dealing AoEs :P

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary

I LOL at fail players who bash on HA venoes, I am more harsh to veno players than people aee to sins. Desdi said you lack magic defense. You can use aps set to DD, but you need an overall set for higher tankability. HA build is meant for that and to focus on CC.

Eoria - Harshlands

Kiszmet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You could hope for that -100% defense curse with rainbow... but at 800 mana and 20 chi a cast.... eh.

...trying to decide if serious or trolling.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

Kittysama - Raging Tide wrote: »

Kitty's HA-veno for being able to switch between extreme p. def. and good magic defence. If Kitty needs some m. def, she just swaps some suitable piece of armor from HA to AA. Kitty's practised estimating the best possible defence ratio between P.def/M.def. at FC when doing full magic pull, magic groups and phys. pulls.

And Kitty's pretty serious about testing this build, the build she posted in original post has her real lvl 100 stat distribution and Kitty thinks APS-gear pieces gives some extra DPS when the defences aren't so important and that DPS ish useful. For PVP Kitty obviously uses T3 HA- and AA-sets and mixing them according to situation and that APS ish just for PVE-use(like sins have APS-gears and PVP-gears).

And thing why Kitty even began considering this build ish that she noticed her veno doing about double the similar level sin's DPH when auto-attacking a [?]-mob. And according to calc the base p. damage ish quite high compared to sin with similar upgraded T3-weapon(at least Kitty remembers something like that from seeing some T3-APS-sin's calc).

And about the spark-downtime, that can be used well for Amping, accuracy debuffing, using Master Li's Technique for missing chi...for something useful.

Kitty's actually going to make this build work, no matter what anyone says. Kitty likes challengesf:cool

Ah kk
Swapping makes sense

Good luck on the build
Hope you succeed and show the non believers

Kiszmet - Heavens Tear

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

...trying to decide if serious or trolling.

100% serious, I never try to troll.

The cost would be totally worth it if the debuff was 100% of the time, but its not, its like 25% for EITHER phys debuff or mag def debuff, yes they can go off together but its really only a 10-15% chance to get the debuff you want in the form your in. The poison/bleed damage is negligible in PvP, in fact they can probably just regen it. On top of that, any of the debuffs only lasts 8 seconds. With 800 mana/20 chi per cast and so many other fox veno skills demanding chi for battlefield control, not to mention HA venos using their mana as an HP buffer with soul transfuse, it actually is quite costly for only a small chance at a really good payoff.

Eoria - Harshlands

Kiszmet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

100% serious, I never try to troll.

The cost would be totally worth it if the debuff was 100% of the time, but its not, its like 25% for EITHER phys debuff or mag def debuff, yes they can go off together but its really only a 10-15% chance to get the debuff you want in the form your in. The poison/bleed damage is negligible in PvP, in fact they can probably just regen it. On top of that, any of the debuffs only lasts 8 seconds. With 800 mana/20 chi per cast and so many other fox veno skills demanding chi for battlefield control, not to mention HA venos using their mana as an HP buffer with soul transfuse, it actually is quite costly for only a small chance at a really good payoff.

...

I just...

...what.

If you are legit having that big of chi problems, reroll to sage and/or get cloud eruption on your genie. Also, are you really going on about MP costs when we've had access to cheap 5k MP pots via tokens for years now?

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

The level 90 divine pots are even cheaper and more than enough to cover Myriad's mana costs.

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The level 90 divine pots are even cheaper and more than enough to cover Myriad's mana costs.

+1
You can also use another alternative from level 5 pierce and 10 tangling mire for 100 percent chance and longer duration for near the same effects.

About chi and mana issues on a veno... LOL. If serious, please uninstall. I barely even run out of mana without potions...

Desdi - Sanctuary

All Venomancers use their MP as a secondary HP bar not just HAs o.o though it's generally most effective when you have both MP and HP charm (hooray for event gold!) since then you won't have to worry about your MP being too low at any time.

And I don't know, the debuff is pretty nasty in PvP, people would have demanded for Myriad to be nerfed either way and when it comes to PvE...wouldn't it make Ironwood less useful in terms of debuffing? At least lvl10/Sage one since Demon one is stronger (but I guess it doesn't matter in PvE anyway).

Kiszmet - Heavens Tear

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary wrote: »

+1
You can also use another alternative from level 5 pierce and 10 tangling mire for 100 percent chance and longer duration for near the same effects.

About chi and mana issues on a veno... LOL. If serious, please uninstall. I barely even run out of mana without potions...

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The level 90 divine pots are even cheaper and more than enough to cover Myriad's mana costs.

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

...

I just...

...what.

If you are legit having that big of chi problems, reroll to sage and/or get cloud eruption on your genie. Also, are you really going on about MP costs when we've had access to cheap 5k MP pots via tokens for years now?

I never said I was having mana or chi problems. I never said I was having debuff problems. Where are all these assumptions coming from? If your trolling, and I'm looking at you Eoria, please go elsewhere. I have level 5 pierce, I use it all the time. Its certainly more reliable than rainbow. I also carry plenty of mana pots, so giving me prices is also unnecessary. f:cool I simply said the chance involved with the skill compared with its cost makes its worth in pvp questionable. If you disagree, then please, next time you are on your veno take it to NW. I want to see those rainbows lighting it up. TW too for that matter. Spam it, you have enough chi and mana. I for one would love to see more venos use it more often, even in PvE.

Since we WERE discussing an APS HA fox build, if Kitty finds Rainbow useful in PvP, props to her, I don't, and just because I have that opinion and am willing to share it doesn't mean I don't know how to play, that I'm some noob veno, that I don't carry pots, or that I need to uninstall. If a different style of playing scares you, or you believe an opinion contrary to yours is bad advice, you need to get off these forums, go outside, and live.

Edit: @Desdi: The debuff is nasty, I never said it wasn't, in fact I said it was. But the chance of getting that debuff is low. Ironwood sage, level 5 peirce, and genie mire are all 75% more reliable and though their debuff is much lower I know I'll be doing more damage with it. (Ironically demon Ironwood is LESS reliable but the debuff does last longer and it does a heck of a lot more damage) The instant cast with the skill is nice, but that's still a second or two that could be used casting another skill that has a much higher chance of being useful. As far as nerfing, well, every class has said the skills of every other class needs to be nerfed, and theirs need to be improved, that's going to happen till the end of time itself, regardless of how overpowered or underpowered skills actually are.

Xainou - Sanctuary

Uh I never had mana or chi issues with myriad. And hell yea, I use it a lot and so do I in PK. I'm sage and if it doesn't proc anything, I can still shoot and ironwood, ijs.

Honestly, mana or chi issues on a veno... uhm. And not using it because it's JUST a chance? Eh...

thumbs

Tanking in RB, low on MP, and NG is on CD is often where I'm running out of MP. Some people just never get into situations like that so they can't see why we need MP pots.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Heh, that's true on the nerfing part xD