Advanced Grinding Machine

2

Comments

  • darthcron
    darthcron Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    1. Honestly, i don't see why a HL and using Jones Quest to make money it's a problem, taking into account that most used methods of getting coins for HL are: TT farming, grinding (endless hours), merchanting and that'd be it. Leaving merchanting (waiting days to sell someting and to buy someting doesn't make anyone happy, unless, well, they simly leave 1 char in this game to merchant and play with other in this game, or other game ) and tt farming aside (except aps classes there's no effective way to farm that in an echonomical manner), the griding droprate (except when 2x is on) it's disappointing, not to mention the verry low coins value for the items dropped (not only at lvl 100 but lower as well). It's no wander that a lot of people might use bots to compensate for this. I didn't took BH rewards into account since most times you get anything but decent money out of it.
    So in the absence of any decent quest for making money, why can't HL use the quests already existing. Not to mention, leveling a char to lvl 71 it's not exactly so easy and cost free.
    2. By simply punishing everyone that "don't let you" grind at a machinge doesn't slove anything. The only solution would be for the developers to fix the problem so that everyone could use the machine. (A few possible soltuions are described in the previous post).
    3. This is a question for developers: Why do you allways make new quests only for lvl 40-80? Is it that hard to add a Jones Quest or something similar for lvl 81-100+ so that you can actually make some coins in a way that doesn't make you bored with this game? (Forsaken World: quests "Life in Freedom Harbor" was a good idea, so is it that hard to add something like that in this game?)
  • BIoodSpitter - Dreamweaver
    BIoodSpitter - Dreamweaver Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Well from what I have seen and understand is that there are people who are digging at the grinding machine when there are few others doing the quests. They will sit for hours and stack the flesh and then will proceed to trash all other quests and only turn in the grinding machine ones. I have heard from others that the use of auto click bots are involved in some cases, whether or not this is true it does seem logical for someone to have the idea of implementing this with their method of coin farming. So I ask myself, how much coin is being generated by someone who is using this method? What are the repercussions to the game play for others who are new to PWI? From what I have seen all this has done is make the current coin-gold trade rise, so yes something should be done here. I agree with other posts that there should be a limit to the number of times somebody is allowed to dig the grinding machine. However, I feel that if it is left open to stack and there are more machines placed in the remaining starter cities that the quest will be ever more exploited and the current problem will only have a temporary fix for the time being.
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    This ain't about people getting money, it's about people spam digging/camping/blocking the machine so others and new players can't take their turn.
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  • BIoodSpitter - Dreamweaver
    BIoodSpitter - Dreamweaver Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    This ain't about people getting money, it's about people spam digging/camping/blocking the machine so others and new players can't take their turn.


    Try re-reading my post again and show me where I say its about the money. If you pay attention you will learn that I am explaining my personal questions I have about this exploit. And if you can understand what I'm talking about then you will realize that by letting this slide and allowing people to stack the items is only killing the game.
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    BIoodSpitter - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Try re-reading my post again and show me where I say its about the money. If you pay attention you will learn that I am explaining my personal questions I have about this exploit. And if you can understand what I'm talking about then you will realize that by letting this slide and allowing people to stack the items is only killing the game.

    I'm generally quoting people if I reply to their post.

    As for your argument, I don't see it. People are already now stacking orders and quests. Hell, I've seen people with 600 orders and 100 flesh. Limiting that by the time they can dig is a bad idea. You're just taking it out on the legit players that can't spam it.

    And honestly, I don't see it being that much of a deal. Let's assume you get 3 machine quests daily on average. That's an extra of 264k coins. The only thing that is broken atm is the fact that they threw the level ranges out of the window. It would keep these people from making an account with 70ish chars and spamming it. So putting that back into place with 3 machines, 3 digging items and the possibility to do as many of your orders a day would be the optimal solution.

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  • ovenusarmanio
    ovenusarmanio Posts: 6,695 Community Moderator
    edited September 2013
    How is someone digging some extra fruit in case it breaks again, or to do later when they complete the quest, causing damage to the game and making the gold price go up and up. It's decent money, but not that much. You make better money at 100 by spamming BH. For the people that have like 400+ of them, it would take grabbing it everyday for 2 months to 420 of them. If they cashed in those orders, that is only an extra ~37 mil in that 2 month time period. And to get the entirety of that you would have to kill a motherload of snakes. More than likely you'd only get like 2/3rd of that, only 1/3d if the only thing you do is grinding machine and don't do the investigate quest. If they decide to kill the snakes and get the whole thing? More power to them. They earned it by grinding hundreds of mobs for hours. Because it would a really long time to complete all 420 orders. A level 100 could easily do way more than that just by doing BH. And NW gives many people more than that in a couple of weeks. It may contribute to coin inflation, but it is a small part. People doing quests on alts for coin isn't exploitation imo, and it's actually they do this than have a bunch of BH alts, economy wise as it's less new coin than excitement/ecstasy cards.

    The only thing wrong with the machine atm is that it allows you do to dig and keep multiples which I doubt is it's original way to work. Which is why I left this in QA. This could be solved by making more machines or by fixing the machine itself. Either or.

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  • Annalyse - Heavens Tear
    Annalyse - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,618 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I admittedly dug 100 spare over a period of time because of all the fuss originally with the machine repeatedly being broken. Those stay untouched in my mystic's inventory for the day it breaks again and she just digs three per quest received now. But when I did dig those multiples, it was always when nobody else was around.

    But most people aren't that polite. The other day I had to spam click like mad just to get my three because several people were hanging out there digging non-stop. I guess for the most part it isn't about having reserves for future breaks for people anymore, but more about storing up so that they can take as little time as possible when doing future JJs. I just don't see the problem in digging three when you get the quest... it only takes a couple minutes.

    I agree with the guy that said to replace it with a quest to wait 1-2 minutes. Alternatively, why isn't it like every other dig quest which doesn't allow you to dig once you have the required items to complete the quest? That seems to legitimately be a bug, since quests normally will not allow you to dig more than is needed, so they should be able to fix it.
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  • Vectorized - Sanctuary
    Vectorized - Sanctuary Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    You'll notice the complete lack of any response by PWI to this.

    I'd laugh if this issue wasn't so frustrating.b:sad
  • RankNine - Momaganon
    RankNine - Momaganon Posts: 1,241 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    oVenusArmanio wrote: »
    How is someone digging some extra fruit in case it breaks again, or to do later when they complete the quest, causing damage to the game and making the gold price go up and up. It's decent money, but not that much. You make better money at 100 by spamming BH. For the people that have like 400+ of them, it would take grabbing it everyday for 2 months to 420 of them. If they cashed in those orders, that is only an extra ~37 mil in that 2 month time period. And to get the entirety of that you would have to kill a motherload of snakes. More than likely you'd only get like 2/3rd of that, only 1/3d if the only thing you do is grinding machine and don't do the investigate quest. If they decide to kill the snakes and get the whole thing? More power to them. They earned it by grinding hundreds of mobs for hours. Because it would a really long time to complete all 420 orders. A level 100 could easily do way more than that just by doing BH. And NW gives many people more than that in a couple of weeks. It may contribute to coin inflation, but it is a small part. People doing quests on alts for coin isn't exploitation imo, and it's actually they do this than have a bunch of BH alts, economy wise as it's less new coin than excitement/ecstasy cards.

    The only thing wrong with the machine atm is that it allows you do to dig and keep multiples which I doubt is it's original way to work. Which is why I left this in QA. This could be solved by making more machines or by fixing the machine itself. Either or.

    its actually way cheaper and faster to make tons of jolly chars than lvl 100 + doing BH.
    and the average reward should be around the same per char.
    jolly char = half a day of fc
    bh100 char = 1-2 weeks of fc

    i know people that basically "farmed" their r9 within a few months of doing this stupid quest while others had to farm their butts off for ages..

    remove it for good, it wont be missed :P
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  • ovenusarmanio
    ovenusarmanio Posts: 6,695 Community Moderator
    edited October 2013
    RankNine - Momaganon wrote: »
    its actually way cheaper and faster to make tons of jolly chars than lvl 100 + doing BH.
    and the average reward should be around the same per char.
    jolly char = half a day of fc
    bh100 char = 1-2 weeks of fc

    i know people that basically "farmed" their r9 within a few months of doing this stupid quest while others had to farm their butts off for ages..

    remove it for good, it wont be missed :P

    The average reward was calculated based off the amount of coin people could grind up from farming DQ in a couple of hours. Because it was a response to the DQ nerf. People earned their rank 9 by grinding DQ as well. You can only make like 18 mil a month per char on a jolly jones alt on the orders themselves (not the coin received logging each day), whereas more than likely if you do BH everday for a month you're likely to earn more than that. Add to that the numerous farming avenues that high levels have at their disposal, and you'll see that high levels easily out earn low levels. If someone is spending hours on end on 11 different chars just to do their 7 orders everyday, then they've earned their coin by engaging in rewarding game content.

    Claiming nobody would miss the single most important source of early game coin making, since the ability to make coins from doing the other content was completely removed from it, is patently false. Just like there was an uproar at the dq being nerfed. Just because you do not depend on it, and none of your friends do, doesn't meant that nobody would miss it.

    I think that fixing the bug so that people can't do more than 3, would make it harder to exploit since a lot of people are just digging when they have spare time and doing the quest while afk the rest of the time. But if nothing else, I hope they at least make it so those people do not get in the way of others.

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  • Mazumii - Dreamweaver
    Mazumii - Dreamweaver Posts: 270 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    grinding machine breaks, doesn effect me, 10 toon lvl 71-80 everyday i get 1.5 mill just from grabbing the stupid quest, I don't do the jones stuff, just log in and collectb:chuckle
  • Tetream - Lost City
    Tetream - Lost City Posts: 266 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    If some characters really don't stop with digging (and normally you should be able to interrupt them by digging by youself), Jewelscalen might help you b:chuckle

    It's also a good bot check. I doubt that they configurated the bots to come back and dig again (as they do it most of the time at grinding/herb farming spots). They should stay dead at the same spot.

    You can even be nice and warn the others/ res them with your cleric.
  • lordhanzo
    lordhanzo Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    agree with what has been said here, make it so everyone can dig it (not just one person at a time) and can only dig 3.
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  • Keyborne - Raging Tide
    Keyborne - Raging Tide Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    whats really annoying is when u see someone spam digging and just lookin at their toon its obvious they have no gear on.. so you "player info" them and sure enough, lvl 7x with a lvl 1 weap and no gear.

    - Another fallout to hyper fc open from lvl 1

    (like someone openly admitted in a previous post to having 10 alts he logs in just for the 130k+ per alt starting coin per day not including the bountys)

    IMO -

    - remove the grinding quest completely and replace with a npc visiting one or timed wait
    or
    - make the digs limited to 3 where you lose the digging tool after you reach it ( like mentioned earlier)
    -remove the starting coin you get with the bounty orders

    guaranteed with no free afk-digging coin quests the load around the jones npc would drop a lot.

    We were fine before the jones quests and will be fine if they are gone. People need to stop being lazy and actually work for their coin rather than only do bh on their main n spend the rest of the time digging grinding machine


    OH and off topic but maaabe level restrict Dreamchaser gear or any gear for that matter so it stops being useable after a certain lvl. Running bh with a couple lvl 80s in dreamchaser gear or lvl 100s with r4 tops and lvl77 sea captain sleeves on is not only annoying to those that actually worked on decent lvl100+ gear to survive the instance but it wastes everyones elses time while those others die over n over again n take time rebuffing and what not.

    * * Instead of asking ppl to link weapons, they should start asking them to link gear * *
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Gotta love the GM replies to other threads in this section, but nothing here. C'mon.
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  • surtr
    surtr Posts: 3,378 Perfect World Employee
    edited October 2013
    I can bring it up to the developers, but no promises.
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  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I think the best solution by now would truly be just replacing the quest with a timer quest for a minute or something.

    Besides that, giving out only 3 digging passes would help, best along with machines in every city. But I'm really in favor of just replacing the quest with something that doesn't mean you got to compete with the tons of cash alts.

    Curious to see what happens with this. o,o
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  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Bump. Any news on this?
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  • Kazeodori - Heavens Tear
    Kazeodori - Heavens Tear Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Keyborne - Raging Tide wrote: »
    . Running bh with a couple lvl 80s in dreamchaser gear or lvl 100s with r4 tops and lvl77 sea captain sleeves on
    Hey, I loved my sleeves! That -6% chan is good! Finally upgraded them to S3 though. Miss the tiny speed boost though.

    Back on topic, I'd like to hear a reply on this still as well. There have been several good solutions for this. I think the timer is the best solution for it.
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  • Roxxannae - Sanctuary
    Roxxannae - Sanctuary Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    No surprise that I'm bumping this again.

    I hope that there may be a fix in the upcoming expansion. I've pretty much given up on doing the quests because I could be off doing something more useful than spam clicking for several minutes each time I get this quest.
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    So it's currently impossible to even do the quest. Some BM is spam digging it, along with an archer that has been there yesterday too. So what do we do? Report them? Lure an aoe boss? Come the hell on, fix it.
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  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    So it's currently impossible to even do the quest. Some BM is spam digging it, along with an archer that has been there yesterday too. So what do we do? Report them? Lure an aoe boss? Come the hell on, fix it.

    Spirit Phalanx them.
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  • Roxxannae - Sanctuary
    Roxxannae - Sanctuary Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Spirit Phalanx them.

    Was considering it for a while but somewhere deep within the TOS someone could probably get me banned for trying. b:sad

    Either way if it wasn't bannable, when I was trying to do it at the time, there were between 3 and 4 people taking turns hogging it so there wasn't much chance anyway b:angry
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Spirit Phalanx them.

    Too bad that requires having a level 100 psy, safe to say this is pretty unlikely for most people, especially new players. Hmpf.
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  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited December 2013
    I'd accidentally bring Jewels while trying to escape from it. *cough*



    But yeah the best you can really do is Screenshot/record it and toss it into a ticket.
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  • Labells - Dreamweaver
    Labells - Dreamweaver Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    OPKossy wrote: »
    I'd accidentally bring Jewels while trying to escape from it. *cough*



    But yeah the best you can really do is Screenshot/record it and toss it into a ticket.

    OPKossy have you been hanging out on Dreamweaver to see how we handle Advanced grinding machine bots & hogs b:chuckle
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  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    OPKossy wrote: »
    I'd accidentally bring Jewels while trying to escape from it. *cough*

    I'm pretty sure that's been done, seeing there were a couple of dead bodies yesterday. lol
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  • hoover69
    hoover69 Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    yeah i hate this i have to trash the quest alot of times cause i can't get the items needed they should make it so you can get 3 auto seeds on first click then you can't get no more until you turn it in and get new quest
  • Smiliess - Heavens Tear
    Smiliess - Heavens Tear Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    more grinding machines wil not work.
    Just make it like -Banana-...where everybody can dig at the same time.
  • theladybarb
    theladybarb Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    This the last post I see on this thread on the matter of "The Advanced Grinding Machine". 1St off why has it NEVER been addressed PWI Staff? This is a very old issue only growing WORSE with rebirth individuals and as many call them "Jolly Dogs". People making multiple accounts just to do the Lake & Grind and drop their coins to their mains. Some of the players are Actually playing the game as their first go around and have to tolerate individuals gathering fruit for 10+ grind sessions every day. If one can only take 1 Cabala Stone/ 10 Broken Flags/ 5 Sprite Worms/ 5 Cultured Roots, why can you not accomplish making the Pulp disappear if one has 3 or more fruit in their pocket. Or at least make the Pulp disappear after 3 have been harvested, or the Fruit being dropped. Or make the Fruit unable to discard, The Cabala Stone cannot be dropped. I am more than confident in you game designers that you can come to some easy fix on this issue that will NEVER stop until you make it stop.

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