Question to the GMs about SvS

Azura - Lost City

Dear GMs

I write to you this post because I would like to know for sure if we are ever going to have SvS content.

If you are actually planning on giving this functionality to the servers, then when are we going to get it? What are the difficulties you are facing to implement this, and how can they be overcome. I want to know that much because if I don't know then I won't be able to be comprehensible to you.

If you we are not going to ever have this functionality, then please let us know now so we don't have false hopes in us. I personally wouldn't get upset, but if you say we won't have it ever just remember that almost all the other versions of PW have SvS, and that we would need a different map for NW (one of the best thing in this game atm) because the map is only good for svs.

Sincerely yours, Azura.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

This has been discussed several times before.

1. They would like to do SvS content, but are currently unable to. Various testing on this environment for SvS has failed.

2. The primary problem to having SvS content is because of how they originally mapped the name databases on the servers. Until these servers are either merged, or the name databases are split off, it will continue to be a limiting factor.

3. They are still working to find a way to get this to function, and are working on alternative methods; however, no one can predict the future so that you can have an ETA.

Jesya - Lost City

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

This has been discussed several times before.


2. The primary problem to having SvS content is because of how they originally mapped the name databases on the servers. Until these servers are either merged, or the name databases are split off, it will continue to be a limiting factor.

This was an issue with merging the 2 Euro servers, yet that still happened.... so I have hope SvS will happen. It could bring back life into this game that some of us feel is lacking.

"It's a server thing" as the tried and true excuse is getting old.

Azura - Lost City

Ok Sylen, according to the pw wiki, the servers of heaven's tears, sanctuary, and archosaur share the same name database. So, those can be merged, right?

But Lost City is independent. If LC needed to be merged for svs, how would you deal with the problem about the names?

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Ok Sylen, according to the pw wiki, the servers of heaven's tears, sanctuary, and archosaur share the same name database. So, those can be merged, right?

But Lost City is independent. If LC needed to be merged for svs, how would you deal with the problem about the names?

well the obvious solution is to do it like in the forum: Azura-LC.
it won't be the first game to do that either.

DoodsWH - Sanctuary

I want a GM's response a to why it cant happen. They COULD fix/append the database/s they choose not too. end of the story.

v4liance

Hey guys,

I wish I could give you guys a firm update on whether 1) this is possible and 2) when, if ever, we would get this update.

I know server vs. server combat would be a lot of fun, and we're working closely with the dev team and our own engineers to see what it would take to get it to work for our servers.

Unfortunately, it's surprisingly complicated, and our servers just weren't set up for this initially.

Again, this isn't impossible, and as much as I hate to give false hope, I do promise that we are working on this, and we would love to get this implemented with our next big content update.

- Val

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Jesya - Lost City wrote: »

This was an issue with merging the 2 Euro servers, yet that still happened.... so I have hope SvS will happen. It could bring back life into this game that some of us feel is lacking.

"It's a server thing" as the tried and true excuse is getting old.

The two European servers were created sharing the same name database. This makes it extremely easy to merge them, which is what happened. I'm pretty sure that this was developed in the design from the beginning in case they ever needed to do exactly what they did.
Which leads me to this post....

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Ok Sylen, according to the pw wiki, the servers of heaven's tears, sanctuary, and archosaur share the same name database. So, those can be merged, right?

But Lost City is independent. If LC needed to be merged for svs, how would you deal with the problem about the names?

The servers that share the same name database would be extremely easy to merge. Servers that don't share a name database are extremely difficult to merge.

IMO, (and based from some of my own testing), the easiest way for us to get SvS would be to merge the servers that share the same name databases. Unfortunately, this poses some other problems with the current system, which is the load on the servers.
While it may be feasible to merge HT and Arch servers because of the lower population on them, merging either into Sanctuary is going to create some real population issues. i.e. too many people in one place at one time. It will put a great deal of stress in the data transmission between the various pieces of server hardware that run each server, and also on the amount of data transmitted to the end user, and finally, the end user's PC's capabilities to display it.

Basically, you can measure it like this... Log into Sanctaury. Go out on the open map somewhere and check your FPS. Now go to West Archosaur, and check your FPS.
Now imagine 2x the catshops, 2x the people. Take the difference in your FPS readings, subtract it in half, and subtract that from your current FPS.

That's a loose analogy, but you should be getting a basic idea of the hurdles involved.

heerohex#3018

Here is an idea....

Their is alwayz a solution to any problem allwayz a way. " I dont believe in no win situations " now where did i get that from...

Its the database that causing the issue.

1. Im sure this would not be favable but could you try Server V Server with the compatable servers to even find out if it works first?

2. could the name database be coded to say a 00 = HT 01 = LC ETC. that way for instance a toon that played on the Heavens tear would be 00-player name. each toon is coded to a number for that name database. That would allow incompatable Name servers to run Vs eachother. Possibly.

If my understanding is correct the PWIC servers are set up diferently? Closer ? All use the same NDB? I have no idea in fact.

Lets be blunt and ive said this many times before. PW was never designed to be able to do this.. for various reasons not just this one.

DoodsWH - Sanctuary

v4liance wrote: »

our servers just weren't set up for this initially.

- Val

^this. Upgrading to say a VM Farm or newer back-ends to make it so it can handle a load isnt always peaches and cream. The biggest problem I have seen is getting the test environment to match the production environment. even if u clone... There is always a third option. Migrate the name databases into a new one . I know its evil and sometimes so time consuming as to not be worth it but yea. Anyways thanks for the heads ups. I hope this is addressed as current server populations may be able to fill the nw map but not when only a quarter of the server goes.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

heero200 wrote: »

Here is an idea.... stuff

Iz min idea beetter forz thiz serverz ****. We takz allz pplz and uz numz in thrz namz. Like heero200-1

The above was my +1 b:chuckle due to having a hard time to read a post.

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver

v4liance wrote: »

Hey guys,

I wish I could give you guys a firm update on whether 1) this is possible and 2) when, if ever, we would get this update.

I know server vs. server combat would be a lot of fun, and we're working closely with the dev team and our own engineers to see what it would take to get it to work for our servers.

Unfortunately, it's surprisingly complicated, and our servers just weren't set up for this initially.

Again, this isn't impossible, and as much as I hate to give false hope, I do promise that we are working on this, and we would love to get this implemented with our next big content update.

- Val

if that is true, can you deal with the current new Nation wars map? its designed for server vs server, and we dont have it. unless u want us to wait months or years for next content

Jaabg - Sanctuary

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if that is true, can you deal with the current new Nation wars map? its designed for server vs server, and we dont have it. unless u want us to wait months or years for next content

I am guessing anni might have it, if not, december they will roll out something new.

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am guessing anni might have it, if not, december they will roll out something new.

server vs server was promised for a long time, so wondering if its true this time

Ahira - Lost City

I wouldnt get my hopes up! b:chuckleAfter we had our PWIC they surely must have looked into a proper SvS contest. If after a year they couldnt come up with a workable small scale SvS battle for PWIC (which we subsequently didnt take part in), I dont have much confidence they can do it now with nw.

Psytrac - Dreamweaver

v4liance wrote: »

I know server vs. server combat would be a lot of fun, and we're working closely with the dev team and our own engineers to see what it would take to get it to work for our servers.

Unfortunately, it's surprisingly complicated, and our servers just weren't set up for this initially.
- Val

there's no way it can be that hard that we still don't have it from 1.4.4

Too much of the content this game offers isn't in our version WHY?

If we can't get SvS, tell china to give us back v80 Nation Wars if this can't be done anytime soon

ovenusarmanio

Psytrac - Dreamweaver wrote: »

there's no way it can be that hard that we still don't have it from 1.4.4

Too much of the content this game offers isn't in our version WHY?

If we can't get SvS, tell china to give us back v80 Nation Wars if this can't be done anytime soon

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1607541

Psytrac - Dreamweaver

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1607541

do not sidetrack my post with links to another..

ovenusarmanio

Psytrac - Dreamweaver wrote: »

do not sidetrack my post with links to another..

I linked it because it answered your question.

Psytrac - Dreamweaver

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I linked it because it answered your question.

no, you picked ONE question to pint as the answer..

there are 2 distinct questions there..

ovenusarmanio

Psytrac - Dreamweaver wrote: »

no, you picked ONE question to pint as the answer..

there are 2 distinct questions there..

I answered the only on-topic question. I figured it was the reason you bumped this thread, and was trying to point you to a GM response because your idea had already been addressed. Why we don't get every update china gets is a different topic. If you have any other questions about my replies, please send me a PM. I'd rather not derail this thread further. Thanks.

skaitavia

Psytrac - Dreamweaver wrote: »

no, you picked ONE question to pint as the answer..

there are 2 distinct questions there..

To somewhat answer your other one, the main reason is that the infrastructure of PWCN's servers were implemented in a way ours is not, which means many updates that flow well with PWCN, such as server vs. server, runs into problems with our version.

Other reasons for some features such as gear and whatnot is due to how different the markets are in both versions.


And that's my end of the discussion. As Venus stated, if you have any concerns that are not related to the topic, feel free to send us a PM!

Psytrac - Dreamweaver

Skaitavia wrote: »

To somewhat answer your other one, the main reason is that the infrastructure of PWCN's servers were implemented in a way ours is not, which means many updates that flow well with PWCN, such as server vs. server, runs into problems with our version.

Faction base wars? basic implements of quests? We have ACTIVE IE events, RIGHT NOW, and yet instead of PWE addressing the issue we have another week of spam event that we can't even use? And server vs server has been available in china forever, which is why they trounced us in PWIC and we didn't go last year. (if there's any other reason, I'd love to hear it)

Maybe I'm being too harsh on Val, but track record of CMs isn't exactly the best.

Even though each server in PWCN has a different name server, they all flush out just fine. It's something we're clearly never going to get. I'm just as tired of hearing the excuses of "different structure"

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Psytrac - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...
Even though each server in PWCN has a different name server, they all flush out just fine. It's something we're clearly never going to get. I'm just as tired of hearing the excuses of "different structure"

I'm betting this is exactly what our problem with it is. Not every server has it's own name server. I'm almost certain that if each of our servers had it's own name server, SvS would not be a problem.

_Mictian_ - Archosaur

so more than server vs server will be database vs database right?

so east coast vs west coast vs morai?

oh i am sure morai can stand on pair with you guys b:pleased