Casters and pdef.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Hi, As you can see i am a barb. I have not yet build a high level caster before.
However, i have build a lot of them in PWcalc last days
I am still not entirely sure about things though and i want some more imput. Please do not blindly throw certain options (HA) out of the window, but look at my thoughts and considerations and tell me how and why they are wrong if they are so, or how i could improve on them. b:thanks

First, the cleric i want to build is for PvE only. Its most important job will be to dual client with my (APS) barb in TT3-x and other places i decide to farm. I want it to have good chances of survival with limited attentioned being payed as i will be paying most attention to my barb. As healing comes for a big part from paint, the cleric will be around for a little additional healing where needed, Bleuball to halve damage where possible, purify and revive when worst comes to pass... besides that, i will probably be doing some BHs, lunars and warsongs with squad. The cleric will be on a limited budget with refines in the 5-7 range, and cube necks and warsong belts arent within budget either. Full G16 is on the edge... Since i really like the R8r weapon and thus have the reputation anyway, R8r armors are an interesting somewhat cheaper option as well.

Some points that i have taken into consideration:

-I want some reasonable Pdef to go with the needed Mdef. Therefore i have been looking to either get phyz ornaments and might rings with AA armor, or magic ornies and magic rings with HA armor.

-channeling comes mostly from rings and ornies and only from the magic / elemental ones. So HA seems to make it easier to get some channeling. I started considering the whole issue of channeling after making some builds purely focussed on defence. Therefore i have added a "channeling" build later. I just chose bunch of ornies and rings, i dont even know if they really exist or what they would cost. I also sacrificed the def levels of G16 for more channeling and then balanced out the mdef/pdef a bit better. Dint put much thought in it beyond that.

-Since i want survivability, the choise is between using stat points for vit or for str(ha) in neither case i will go for high mag. The advantage of HA refines seem to even out with the HP i get from Vit.

-I want more mdef than pdef. However, i also really like the 15 def levels bonus from 5/6 parts in the G16 set. Because of this, i made my builds with 5HA+1AA even though i would have prefered more mdef on the HA build, i would actually have prefered 4+2 or 3+3 but didnt want to give up the def levels. In my r8 version i made a better balance since i cant have the def levels of G16 anyway. The r8r version turns out to be quite a bit weaker though so i guess that is going to be a budget consideration.

-When you can afford +10 cube necks and warsong belts, that makes everything easy. But i can't.

AA cleric (I dislike the terrible pdef)
HA cleric (I woulde like a better rate of more mdef vs pdef)
R8 cleric (good ratio of mdef vs pdef, but a bit weaker average defences, also a bit cheaper)
channeling cleric (swapped some out of the HA build and chose some channeling stuff now, let me know what ornies/rings to use for real)

Please let me know what you think of my builds, which you like most and why ?
What aspects of my line of thinking do you agree on and what not ?
What other items would you advise me to use ? (mind the budget !)

If you could help me make a cheaper build with reasonable stats than G16 that would also be appreciated. G16 is actually already a bit expensive for what i would like to spend on a support cleric. Also advise me what level of gears you think would be needed for what i want. I have been in TT3-3 with me(the barb) and friend on a TT90 cleric. While we were not dual clienting and paying full attention to the chars, the TT90 cleric seemed to be very, insufficient as it would consistently die to any random agro and most aoe. I know its a pretty big gap from that TT90 to these builds i post here. Am i over doing it ? I just have no idea what in between could be good enough. But i guess the difference in quality vs the difference in price of anything cheaper compared to G16 is pretty skewed.

Thank you

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

I've always been happy with the straight forward pure magic AA build with pdef ornies. Caster's are the opposite of HA users where 95% of the damage they take is magic, but obviously the damage that really hurts is physical (HAs in melee range get hit by physical damage 95% of the time but gotta watcha out for magic damage). Because of this the AA/pure magic build reduces most the damage they take an incredible amount while having awesome heals. They're still weak against phys damage and their phys ornaments and ring go towards making up for that.

I'll... first tell you my general issues with every other build then circle back to your question.

vit/AA build: Vit does effect defenses, but barely. Not nearly as effective as stats in strength or magic (I think 1/10), but vit also adds to hp. For me, it's just not a good trade off for a cleric. You gain pdef and heals but lose alot of mdef, heal strength, mana pool (important for shields). Overall I consider it a personal survivability loss, and ofc since your heals are weaker a survivability loss for the squad.

HA build: Great surviviability because of HA's hp refine rate. The pdef itself isn't as big of a factor to me since AAs still attack clerics and you'll take more damage from them now, although its a great deterent to sins stealthing past and stun->kill and can survive a BMs stuns long enough to escape or get squad help. However, one of the best ways for a cleric to survive is for them to keep their squad alive since a good squad will always put a cleric before themselves. An HA cleric has to have an awesome weapon to makeup for the 200 points lost from magic. Overall its a great support build (since a dead cleric heals no one) but a horrible solo build. This cleric will hardly tank bosses since they're exceptionally weak in melee range and weaker than other cleric's to magic ranged attacks. They also will have trouble finishing an equally geared opponent in 1v1 since they 200-300 stat difference is 200-300% less weapon multipliers. Remember, casters get 1% more weapon damage per magic point (for LA and HA classes its 150 points=100%, for casters its 100 points = 100%) so each magic point lost is considerable.

R8r: The beauty of r8 recast is you can target specific attributes like pdef, magic, or damage reduction, and that weapon can have def levels or the super sexy Purify proc. It also starts with great base stats. What sucks about r8r is the refine rate is low. So it exceeds most gear at low refines, but falls behind at higher refines. Also, aiming for specific stats can be a bigger cash sink than its worth and if something better comes out the gear is not upgradable and not tradable. Still, its a nice base setup.

-channeling cleric: Ughh... channeling is nice. That's about it. It's something you go "oooohh, that was 1.5/100ths faster than last time I cast it." Its nice, but its a placebo effect 99% of the time since channeling is such a small part of actual cast time. And -channeling is almost always at the cost of pdef, hp, or magic strength. Just not a fan and to me its the sign of a nub cleric when pics -channeling ornies (and sometimes ring) instead of the other options.

~~~

Now specific to your situation. I self duo 3-xs on my barb and BM with my cleric and heal strength isn't that important since I have bp. The two things I look for from my cleric is bb's damage reduction of 50% and that it can stay alive long enough to revive and rebuff and setup bb again. For that purpose and not for actual playing a cleric I think the vit AA build is probably the best. I'm trying to think of any that have ranged physical attacks/aoes and I really can't think of any. Almost all of them have magic ranged attacks but some do a random aggro melee attack. I think Dark Callouseast may have a physical attack aoe and a magical aoe.

So yah, I'd suggest vit build for this job specifically. That way the cleric is still salvageable if you decide you want to pve or pvp with it.

ovenusarmanio

A bit of vit say 50 or so will increase your HP and (to a much smaller degree p.def) without really sacrificing much in the terms of healing. You don't want to go overboard with vit, but it can help make up for your cheaper refines. And if you ever decide to go full out on the cleric, it won't really matter what build it is as any full endgame cleric is going to be deadly. I personally never had trouble with the normal damage, vit build or pure and I have played both. But when I suddenly took a lot of damage I survived about three times more often on my vit build than my pure build. I also don't really to kite, so being able to tank damage with no heals or kiting was better for my personal playstyle. I actually survived much less often on my pure build than my vit build, so it's really a matter of personal preference. I've noticed when I did NW on my cleric that I was surviving a bit better than other clerics with the same gear/level as me as well. I think it really comes down to personal preference. Pure had the advantage of killing things more often before they got a chance to do any damage, though. Still when I did take damage it was very noticeable how nice it was to have vit.

Anyway that being said, I can tell you want quite a bit more vit than I would personally recommend, so I'll go by that. I think you'll fine one of these two would be better. :P

http://pwcalc.com/cb70b64818581179

same with g16 robe.

http://pwcalc.com/cff986ca7ce95302

magic ring

http://pwcalc.com/d9b82daa9de779a9

same with g16 robe.

http://pwcalc.com/2a28e7955e01992e

I'd like to point out that magic ring is probably a better idea since the might ring at those level of refines doesn't really add so much more p.def that it's worth sacrificing the m.attack. You'd also get bumped up to 11k magic attack which used to be the minimum you'd want at 100. :P Also refine your stuff to +7, that can be obtained using nothing but DQ points so it's really no reason not to do so eventually.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

I do not understand why people want to make a R8r weap for a PVE alt... it's so not needed, cleric was able to do stuff in TT99 back in time with just a O'malley.

-G16 (AA) set (5 pieces chest, legs, boots, sleeves and head)
-A cape with p.def. (from TM or ☆Glorious Robe: Torment) Clerics don't need the +20 att. lvl bonus from the 6 pieces of G16. (specially a alt for PVE)
-G16 weapon. (doesn't matter which one)
-P.def ornament, sky demon pearl is fine for a alt for PVE, but that eye of jungle lvl10 is ****, ☆Anger of the Beast Soul give 688 p.def at the same refine then the one from your pwicalc and it's a cheap mold. (1-2m depend on server) Or the Warsong belt.

The set of G16 will give you 15 def. lvl bonus, plus the 15 def. lvl of O'malley you will get 30 def. level which is way more then enough for PVE. No need 50 def. lvl to be able survive PVE.

There's cleric with less, hp, p.def and def. lvl then your pwicalc and can do every PVE in the game. For PVE 4-5k p.def, 6k hp and 15-30 def. lvl is way enough.

AA cleric pure magic or vit build with decent refine/shards can do any PVE.

ovenusarmanio

Oh yeah, Bella's post reminded me. Found an old budget build before g16 ever came out and 5khp was considered enough. Even this cleric which is gear that would is **** nowadays managed to have at least 11k m.attack so you really shouldn't be going any lower than this in g16 gear. http://pwcalc.com/529571e85e2e0cb

Also, attack levels don't affect heals.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Thanx, some nice things in there ! Espescially that cape and belt

Seems the last link doesnt work though venus.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Forgot to mention a few things. R8 ring is great and all... but bad for survivability because it doesn't refine.

Also play around with using an LA helm or G16 LA helm and cape. For only a few more strength points it refines much better than if you had put those points into vit, and if you go LA cape with it you also get 2 piece set bonus of 700 hp also.

Not saying I recommend it or not, just saying something to consider.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Forgot to mention a few things. R8 ring is great and all... but bad for survivability because it doesn't refine.

Also play around with using an LA helm or G16 LA helm and cape. For only a few more strength points it refines much better than if you had put those points into vit, and if you go LA cape with it you also get 2 piece set bonus of 700 hp also.

Not saying I recommend it or not, just saying something to consider.

Ye i did that, i actually started out by using 2 AA, 2LA, 2HA parts and experimented some more with such setups. In the end i decided to go for the def level bonus instead As i ended up including 1 build where i gave up on the def levels, i should get this concept back in maybe for that build and see how it comes out.

I will also look at options where i take a minimum amount (or more important, value) of items that i can swap out when i use the cleric for my stated purpose or do normal PvE with it.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I do not understand why people want to make a R8r weap for a PVE alt... it's so not needed, cleric was able to do stuff in TT99 back in time with just a O'malley.

-G16 (AA) set (5 pieces chest, legs, boots, sleeves and head)
-A cape with p.def. (from TM or ☆Glorious Robe: Torment) Clerics don't need the +20 att. lvl bonus from the 6 pieces of G16. (specially a alt for PVE)
-G16 weapon. (doesn't matter which one)
-P.def ornament, sky demon pearl is fine for a alt for PVE, but that eye of jungle lvl10 is ****, ☆Anger of the Beast Soul give 688 p.def at the same refine then the one from your pwicalc and it's a cheap mold. (1-2m depend on server) Or the Warsong belt.

The set of G16 will give you 15 def. lvl bonus, plus the 15 def. lvl of O'malley you will get 30 def. level which is way more then enough for PVE. No need 50 def. lvl to be able survive PVE.

There's cleric with less, hp, p.def and def. lvl then your pwicalc and can do every PVE in the game. For PVE 4-5k p.def, 6k hp and 15-30 def. lvl is way enough.

AA cleric pure magic or vit build with decent refine/shards can do any PVE.

I'm just gonna quote myself on this one. I know his goal is a low budget 'bubble-****' but even for that I dislike hearinng the "its not needed for PvE" because some people value PvE more than PvP. "What's needed" as a bare minimum is never a question since we all want to turn our characters into beasts that roll the game Other than that its good advice.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Agree this is unrealistic and overkill for PvE. But, isn't overkill half the fun of an rpg?

I hate hearing "You don't need that for just PvE" because PvE is 99.9% of the fun of the game for me. I really could care less what my pvp gear is like, since its more fun to beat another player with skill rather than gear. But annihilating, I mean just demolishing an instance that you once needed to have full buffs, a "perfect squad", pots, apos, maybe charms... That is fun.

Otherwise anything over about 8k hp and R6 daggers for a sin would be overkill and that's where we should stop?

Pan Gu kills a puppy everytime someone says "you don't need JoSD's for PvE." Really, you don't need shards for PvE (or PvP) but the fun is turning a pissant into a god.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Well, i would like to keep it cheap and not too much overkill This cleric doesnt need to be a beast, i just dont want it to die from any random agro / aoe attack. Of course since i will be active on my barb, i will immeadiately take agro to my barb, but it would be nice if i have the space to mess up a little bit and the cleric is able to actually survive at least 2 of those attacks

Besides that, you know how it is, your dual clienting, your swap to your barb, someone talks to you, you take 2 seconds to answer and your cleric ran into some mob. Its nice if that doesnt kill him

Other than that, cheaper = better. Unfortunately except for R8r it just seems like there is nothing really between TT90 and G16 that is worth considering since TT99 is more than half the cost of the G16 already.

ovenusarmanio

Dunno if you want to try the morai gear as well. It's not that expensive, and good for pve. Those warding/slaying levels are pretty awesome for pve, although definitely don't do the morai weapon.

edit: And here's that calc again for the cheapest, absolutely bare minimum people used to have. Obviously, this would be pretty terrible now and tbh really wasn't that great then. So obviously, you should not be having less m.attack then it, or your heals aren't going to be very good. So it should at least serve as a baseline for things you don't want to fall under. http://pwcalc.com/529571e85e2e0cb1

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Yeh, i took a look at the morai stuff and was rather dissapointed. Those warding levels look impressive, but the base stats are so terrible that with the warding levels included it still is not better than r8r or G16. not counting the defence levels you get from those !

Besides that, i will have to get into the whole morai thing first to see how many hours i would need to spend to gather it all. I dont consider self farming free. I value my time at 2m per hour or so, so if it takes too many hours, then morai is expensive in my eyes I just have no idea how many hours its gonna take me though.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm just gonna quote myself on this one. I know his goal is a low budget 'bubble-****' but even for that I dislike hearinng the "its not needed for PvE" because some people value PvE more than PvP. "What's needed" as a bare minimum is never a question since we all want to turn our characters into beasts that roll the game Other than that its good advice.

He want to make a slave healer for PVE, he don't make cleric to enjoy playing it or be good, he want a PVE cleric slave for BB.

So for a char that will pass all his time on follow and BB yes I do recommend the minimum, cause more then that would be a waste since he don't plan to play it as alt, but as slave PVE healer.

If he was planing to play the cleric as alt ofc I would say something different, but it's not the case.

ovenusarmanio

It doesn't take that long, those quests can be done in like maybe 5 minutes really, specially if you with a group. The warding levels stack with the defense levels from o'malleys and for a budget build it gets the job done. If you were going to really use the thing I wouldn't even bring it up, but since you basically want a bb slave, I see no reason why it shouldn't be an option.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

It doesn't take that long, those quests can be done in like maybe 5 minutes really, specially if you with a group. The warding levels stack with the defense levels from o'malleys and for a budget build it gets the job done. If you were going to really use the thing I wouldn't even bring it up, but since you basically want a bb slave, I see no reason why it shouldn't be an option.

Surely gonna consider that then. Gonna have to do morai anyways to get my barb skills, might as well dual client it for the cleric gears

Currently making a list of prices of all the items. The R8r weapon is only gonna be an option if they come up with a really good rep sale soon i guess.... Dont really like the 150m total for the rep+weapon, espescially if i end up not using R8 armors. A bit unfortunate though since i really like it and the attack levels on the G16 are a waste anyways. oh well... Ill doubt and calc a bit longer

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

Pretty much a cleric in G16 gear with +5-7 refines is going to survive well enough in most situations.

As you are only interesting in the PvE aspect then as someone who has been HA from level 1 I would suggest to give it some serious thought. Years ago I was out surviving 100+ clerics on Belial's aoe when I was 80+ in TT80 HA. You will find is that it is the physical hits/aoes that will provide problems. Full G16 HA with ele ornaments has very good all round defenses and a good boost in HP. It comes with weaker heals but most only really need BB for the damage reduction and most instances can be healed with TT99 anyway.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I do not understand why people want to make a R8r weap for a PVE alt... it's so not needed

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

If he was planing to play the cleric as alt ofc I would say something different, but it's not the case.

For his situation I agree. But tons of people have clerics as alts or have cleric's that are PvE only and still want the best gear for them even though they're just PvE or just an alt. My cleric being one.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

For his situation I agree. But tons of people have clerics as alts or have cleric's that are PvE only and still want the best gear for them even though they're just PvE or just an alt. My cleric being one.

Yes I do agree, there's people doing only PVE that want the best on alt or main, but it's not the case here.

When I see someone with main or alt asking for advices and bring Morai gears I will usually tell them they should go G16 to get a goal, cause Morai is easy to get and after that people have nothing else to do and will end up to probably go farm G16 anyway and also in case they change their minds and want to TW/PVP.

@HrunsPanda: For the weapon R8r don't forget that you will need to run NW on cleric for the oricalcum ore (can't be trade or put in account stash), you need 15 of them which if 210 tokens, clerics are not the class making the most tokens and depend on the nation you get it can take easy over 3 NW to get 210 tokens. So NW that you won't get money at all, the memorial coins and adamantine whetstones can be farm from main since you can trade them, but total just to craft the weapon it's:

15 oricalcum ore = 210 tokens (no choice to be farm from cleric)
299 adamantine whetsones = 150 tokens (can be trade so can be done with any char)
999 memorial coins = 200 tokens (can be trade as well)

For a big total of 560 tokens for the weapon recast. (210 from cleric, 350 others can be farm from other chars)

Coins and adamantines can be buy from other people, on a server like mine coins are around 20k and adamantine 150k, so it's around 50m, depend on server prices or if you are patient set a shop buying them for lower, but could take more then a day to get them.

That is just for recast the weapon, if you don't get def. lvl the first try then you will need again to run NW from cleric to get damascene ore to reroll it.

After you get the def. lvl if you get the lowest like 10 def. lvl you will need to do NW again on cleric to get hapatizon. It took me 7-8 times to get a decent def. lvl.

On that don't forget the fee to craft the mats with the tokens and the fee for craft the weapon (20m) and reroll have a 2m fee each time. So if you need like 5 reroll to get def. lvl and 5 reroll for the values then it's 20m just in reroll fee.

And all of that ''work'' and money for a weapon not needed at all to survive in PVE.

The only people I recommend R8r weap is main (or alts) mystics, clerics and venomancers that do PVP/TW, for the rest it's just a huge waste of money and time.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Yeah, looking at another weapon now that is interesting and cheap. I dont need much healing power. The attack levels on G16 are wasted anyway. But G15 costs almost the same. TT only slightly less.... Any suggestions whats a good weapon, i really like +stat bonusses

Eoria - Harshlands

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

Yeah, looking at another weapon now that is interesting and cheap. I dont need much healing power. The attack levels on G16 are wasted anyway. But G15 costs almost the same. TT only slightly less.... Any suggestions whats a good weapon, i really like +stat bonusses

If you go with g15 Nirv, avoid the magic sword as it only gives crit as the unique add while wand/glaive have channeling as the unique add and pataka has pdef as the unique add (pataka will also require a bit more str, but not that much).

ovenusarmanio

If you don't want to do the rank 8 route, you could do this with the p.def from the pataka. http://pwcalc.com/b27dcd5eb15abf96 Although you'd be more like to get the 289 p.def add than the 400. :P

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

I'd swap a ring to the physical one for the pdef refine

ovenusarmanio

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'd swap a ring to the physical one for the pdef refine

Well, I'm personally recommending he doesn't shed so much m.attack that he has less healing potential than the tt99 cleric that was linked a bit ago. TT99 is fine for heals for any of the pve content, but it's pretty much the bare minimum. You don't really want less than that.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

I like the weapon.

How would this do for what i want ?

I know its something totally different from the calcs i have been making this far. much, much cheaper. The thing is, the cleric that my friend and i have been using this far was on his main account with his BM. Now we want to do things like TT where we both dual client, me with aps barb main and he with his BM main. Secondary accounts will be this slave cleric and a rather naked sin. This way we have all the buffs at hand. When anyone dies, we can rez and rebuf.

His previous cleric however was r8 (non recast) now i actually took a look at it and it had 5k HPs buffed and zero defence/warding levels. So this morai version i now made is already about 2,5 times more durable. The ornies, cape and rings are the only tradable part taken from his old cleric.

I made this build to be as cheap as possible. Do you think this build will serve its purpose ?
Else i can start looking for the most cost efficient upgrades from there. I guess it would cost me about 70m to give it 2 parts G16 for the HP bonus and at least 1 part that refines properly.

roughly effective HPs and cost:

my friends r8 cleric: 11p, 18m,
..........Morai cleric : 36p, 53m, cost ~60m.
.........Morai+2 G16: 40p, 63m, cost ~140m.
.........5-7ref G16vit: 46p, 88m, cost ~500m.
.......7-10ref G16vit: 75p, 106m, cost ~1000m.

looks like i like morai a lot I hope it will be enough. I just looked up Twilight Emperor. He seems to do 16k phyz or 12k magic damage. Looks like moray can take a few attacks of him. Hope my barb will handle his 16k phyz attacks though

It was quite a process, but you guys managed to talk me out of my silly HA and R8 weapon ideas. Thank you

and for its attack being less than TT99, i dont really believe that will be a problem as we are gonna have BP anyways. If i do find out that i want it to be higher i can always still upgrade the weapon to G16 and or refine it some more.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

Yeah, looking at another weapon now that is interesting and cheap. I dont need much healing power. The attack levels on G16 are wasted anyway. But G15 costs almost the same. TT only slightly less.... Any suggestions whats a good weapon, i really like +stat bonusses

G15 gives a unique add-on and 2 regular add ons. G16 gives +40 attack levels, 3 add-ons, has a higher base m-attack and higher refine rate. Even if the +40 attack levels are a waste the higher base damage, the higher refine rate, and the 1 add-on should more than makeup for that. It also makes it more appealing to resell.

G16 is also super cheap once you get G15, depending on how well you farm duty badges.

ovenusarmanio

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

G15 gives a unique add-on and 2 regular add ons. G16 gives +40 attack levels, 3 add-ons, has a higher base m-attack and higher refine rate. Even if the +40 attack levels are a waste the higher base damage, the higher refine rate, and the 1 add-on should more than makeup for that. It also makes it more appealing to resell.

G16 is also super cheap once you get G15, depending on how well you farm duty badges.

The g16 pataka though is the worst g16 upgrade imo. The only reason I'd really go for the pataka in the first place would be for the additional p.def. The g16 loses that unique quality, and for m.attack/chan that kind of thing i'd prefer the other g16 weapons.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

yes you are right, and if i want healing power, i surely will upgrade it to G16. But for now i think i dont give a rats *** about healing power. The G15 has 1 good defensive stat and is almost free to reroll until the other 2 are good stats. I was actually seriously considering the G13 since it has 3 stats that i want. Its just that the raps are so cheap anyway that i might well make it G15. The G16 is a pain to reroll, or well, i rather use my badges end EoO for rerolling my peak of clouds

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

The g16 pataka though is the worst g16 upgrade imo. The only reason I'd really go for the pataka in the first place would be for the additional p.def. The g16 loses that unique quality, and for m.attack/chan that kind of thing i'd prefer the other g16 weapons.

Why ? Isnt the patake the slowest one with the highest m attack ? And thus since weapon speed is unimportant for a cleric, the best one ?

ovenusarmanio

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

Why ? Isnt the patake the slowest one with the highest m attack ? And thus since weapon speed is unimportant for a cleric, the best one ?

The range makes the heals less consistent, although it averages out the same. It also requires more strength which takes away unnecessarily from m.attack for the same average healing power on the other weapons. Besides that, it just annoys me that the entire reason to go for the pataka is removed on upgrade, which is the p.def. For what you want btw I'd do the 2 piece g16, not just because of the refines but because you don't need the morai hat for the set bonus. Lastly, I'd use sapphire gems for the weapon. They do not cost very much compared to the other shards, and are worth the upgrade especially if you end up doing bh on that cleric.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

ah yes, didnt look well enough, saw higher max damage and lower speed, automatically assumed aps would be same for all weapons just like with axes and claws.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Its a sin question in the cleric forum but i dont feel this is worth making a new thread. As said, we will have a sin for buffing and i guess for ribstriking if he lives long enough. Now i was looking however at this weapon "soul of the sea". It has pierce proc. Can anyone tell me how long this status lasts on the boss, how many % defence it reduces and if it stacks with mire and penetrate armor ?