Possible idea for helping new BMs

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Okay few things:

"they can leap out of BT and your burning will here opening you to aim low combo's"

They do leap out of BT, but they keep moving if you chase them. There are ways to stun into BT and land two reliable hits if you can. Depends on their HP and build.

Will is burned so you don't get stun/sealed trying to escape.

"They're 3 sparked your looking at 10k+ crits here not to mention they can still just autoattack for even mroe damage once you leave mele"

I haven't been 10k'ed by an archer in a long time, but the idea is to get out - and 1 10k aint gonna worry me.

"I prefer mag marrow+demon bell myself in a 1v1 or mag + phys charm untill I can get to mele"

Its funny you say this, because I watch people bell for the pdef bonus and get stun/seal ***** all the time during it. I'll only do that when Im sure they are distracted or Im stun immune.

"blah blah blah 1v1 blah blah blah"

Open PK 1v1s are neat and all, but don't apply to the majority of what people do. TW, NW is the bigger deals PvP wise, not to mention group PK. You have to consider your other options and not tunnel vision yourself into killing one opponent. It's stupid and a waste.

Towards your tactics response...can you rewrite that? It makes no sense, and either Im missing something, you're missing something, or I just can't follow your writing style there.



Okay Syl, heres where a good Archer would destroy your ideas:

110 attack levels vs 77 def levels

47k attack vs 17k m def/phys def

3 hits of metal combo is enough to kill after charm tick with EP and 1 crit self buffed

4k+6k+5k = 15k total and any one hti critting = dead bm or crisis range (burn apoc or just die) if your m def charming, if they purge your flat out dead

and thats off a demon archer, sage has even higher DPH

thats assuming full +12 JOSD +12 upgraded cube neck on the bm and a +12 2x garnet gem on the bm

blade nado isnt terribly fast and you cant swap marrows in it leap>auto 2-3x for tick>metal combo>dead, or just auto you to death. or just...Ig>kill while you derp. Put simply NOBODY sans possibly a barb will be tankign a DPS 3 spark at +12

I get the feeling you fight a lot of people who are either bad or at a lower gear tier than you.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

110 attack levels vs 77 def levels

47k attack vs 17k m def/phys def

3 hits of metal combo is enough to kill after charm tick with EP and 1 crit self buffed

4k+6k+5k = 15k total and any one hti critting = dead bm or crisis range (burn apoc or just die) if your m def charming, if they purge your flat out dead

and thats off a demon archer, sage has even higher DPH

thats assuming full +12 JOSD +12 upgraded cube neck on the bm and a +12 2x garnet gem on the bm

blade nado isnt terribly fast and you cant swap marrows in it leap>auto 2-3x for tick>metal combo>dead, or just auto you to death.

I get the feeling you fight a lot of people who are either bad or at a lower gear tier than you.

Actually no. Some pretty good archers unfortunately for me (I'd prefer the 1 shot nubs in NW...)

And BT you hit Cloud Sprint before entering for the speed buff. BT is useful for the non Vit stone +12 Archers, it will (and does...) kill them.

Load my gear link dude...you're off on the defenses.

It's just a matter of waiting out the 3 sparks they just wasted. The idea is to not get hit more than 1-2 times.

Again Josh, restate your preferred method - I don't see what you're getting at.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually no. Some pretty good archers unfortunately for me (I'd prefer the 1 shot nubs in NW...)

And BT you hit Cloud Sprint before entering for the speed buff. BT is useful for the non Vit stone +12 Archers, it will (and does...) kill them.

Load my gear link dude...you're off on the defenses.

It's just a matter of waiting out the 3 sparks they just wasted. The idea is to not get hit more than 1-2 times.

Again Josh, restate your preferred method - I don't see what you're getting at.

404 not found

And I was going off the def self buffed of a full +12 JOSD bm with a final cast +12 cube neck You will not have higher def than that unless fully buffed. If your talking fully buffed 1v1's I'm done

Srsly does not matter how fast you move, IG>kill

you could rotate charm>te>(bypass chance for the archer here) for both metal cycles at mele but even then your whole geni is gone.

You can smack>blade throw on anything but an IG

Your not flat out tanking a trip spark +12 R999 archer self buffed without burning at least 1 resource heavily

Well unless your a vit axe and then...LOLOLOLOLOL, you WILL run out of resources and die eventually without ever actually threatenign a good archer at your gear level

heh

On the note of my preferred approach I thought I made it pretty clear. I stop them from 3 sparking entirely by burning off 2-3 sparks of chi while their in the aftercast of wings.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

404 not found

And I was going off the def self buffed of a full +12 JOSD bm with a final cast +12 cube neck You will not have higher def than that unless fully buffed. If your talking fully buffed 1v1's I'm done

Srsly does not matter how fast you move, IG>kill

you could rotate charm>te>(bypass chance for the archer here) for both metal cycles at mele but even then your whole geni is gone.

You can smack>blade throw on anything but an IG

Your not flat out tanking a trip spark +12 R999 archer self buffed without burning at least 1 resource heavily

Well unless your a vit axe and then...LOLOLOLOLOL, you WILL run out of resources and die eventually without ever actually threatenign a good archer at your gear level

heh

On the note of my preferred approach I thought I made it pretty clear. I stop them from 3 sparking entirely by burning off 2-3 sparks of chi while their in the aftercast of wings.

You stated they already three sparked...

Im at 89 Def levels without my helm JoSD'ed. 17k pdef/mdef across the board works for average tho (I'm higher on the pdef side personally). 21-22k for most of the BMs I know with similar gear. Didnt 404 for me...don't use IE?

I'm pretty sure I can get away, and survive till the trip spark is over, with about 1.2-1.6ish Chi. I'm also sure I've done so before, and prolly used at least 1 holy path.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You stated they already three sparked...

This is the box, this is the outside, its better out here. My answer to any given scenario in a 1v1 situation that puts my BM out of control of the fight is to not let it happen. BM loses control of fight, BM dies either quickly at low gear or slowly at high gear but bm still dies.

Im at 89 Def levels without my helm JoSD'ed. 17k pdef/mdef across the board works for average tho (I'm higher on the pdef side personally). 21-22k for most of the BMs I know with similar gear. Didnt 404 for me...don't use IE?

...IE ew

I'm pretty sure I can get away, and survive till the trip spark is over, with about 1.2-1.6ish Chi. I'm also sure I've done so before, and prolly used at least 1 holy path.

This would be the accurate answer, and is what I meant by heavy resource burn

Def level wise you would need to use the +20 def r8r weapon you mentioned to hit 89

sadly that still doesn't put you at a comfortable "I'll live this" threshold in my mind but w/e

TheDan - Sanctuary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well here's a easy senario

your at mele range on an r999 archer who just popped 3 spark + antistun on the ground in a 1v1 situation

you both started with full chi geni energy apoth and are self buffed

discuss the pro's and cons of each available path to survival based on stats given from the 5 aps HA set full R99 set or your personal pet build of choice or all of em if you've got a work fetish. (link builds and a vanilla r999 archer from your server)

Its an extreme situation but it was a farily common one when I pvped and will result in instant death a heavy advantage for you or an even situation. the goal is to steer this scenario to the most advantageous setup for yourself to get the kill.

State the possible routes you could take and possible archer reactions for 1-2 steps and where they lead in the fight

For a former tabletop player this kind of thing is fun, most folks aint got the attention span for it.

I'd simply magic marrow + buddha's guard (10s), will of bod run into their face for half damage and use smack (3s) + blade hurl (6s).

Possible reactions from Archer: They could sutra orb to purify themselves from smack or blade hurl

Possible counter reaction from BM: BM would then either AD + IG or fortify IG or will + IG

OR

Demon bell + phys marrow + lure out the channeling on magic attack + heart of steel (8s) + magic marrow after heart of steel runs out + smack (3s) + blade hurl (6s)

Possible reactions from Archer: Purge

Possible reactions from BM: AD + IG until triple spark runs out

Joshcja - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'd simply magic marrow + buddha's guard (10s), will of bod run into their face for half damage and use smack (3s) + blade hurl (6s).

Possible reactions from Archer: They could sutra orb to purify themselves from smack or blade hurl

Possible counter reaction from BM: BM would then either AD + IG or fortify IG or will + IG

OR

Demon bell + phys marrow + lure out the channeling on magic attack + heart of steel (8s) + magic marrow after heart of steel runs out + smack (3s) + blade hurl (6s)

Possible reactions from Archer: Purge

Possible reactions from BM: AD + IG until triple spark runs out

Archer can also simply IG in smack but ya that would let ya deal with anything they're throwing at ya, though the archer could potentially abandon the tactic after you burnt heart+gaurd+bhodi and chi up on you with fists if they run em then leap into more conventional tactics. Thats more for setting themselves up for the long fight though

@ all

In my mind its a situation that forces you to burn more than the archer does to set up an eventual kill off a lucky purge since imo bm apoc has more value than archer apoc and ofc it has a shot at killing you

The possible losses in my mind are geni, range, apoc, chi, cooldowns

For possible bm sets the losses that matter in order of importance imo would be

with a pure axe r999 set your main resources are apoc/chi/CD

fist/axe would be range/CD/geni

The goal is to live while keeping as much of your resources intact as possible rather than just all out living


in my mind either gtfoing or suppressing that kind of situation entirely provides the best setup providing you can gtfo without using will though there have been legitimate tactics mentioned to keep yourself in range if the archer is trying to force you out for the range advantage.

This is applicable in any matchup or gear level however I thought that this would be a pretty good example to bring up the point.

Srsly though, blade tornado made me chuckle

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is the box, this is the outside, its better out here. My answer to any given scenario in a 1v1 situation that puts my BM out of control of the fight is to not let it happen. BM loses control of fight, BM dies either quickly at low gear or slowly at high gear but bm still dies.

This would be the accurate answer, and is what I meant by heavy resource burn

Def level wise you would need to use the +20 def r8r weapon you mentioned to hit 89

sadly that still doesn't put you at a comfortable "I'll live this" threshold in my mind but w/e

Okay the box thing...again makes no sense. You said start with him sparked and antistunned? lol.

1.5 chi is not a heavy resource burn when you're full chi.

http://pwcalc.com/b2d7b43d7dad94c9 (Def level weapon I hit like 112 Def levels...)

May not in your mind, but in practice it's worked just fine for me, even vs wizzies and psys too.

"Srsly though, blade tornado made me chuckle" - Okay at this point Josh, I'm pretty sure you've been away from the game too long and need to get out there some more. You're missing the the 10-20k BT hits on R9rrs.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'd simply magic marrow + buddha's guard (10s), will of bod run into their face for half damage and use smack (3s) + blade hurl (6s).

Possible reactions from Archer: They could sutra orb to purify themselves from smack or blade hurl

Possible counter reaction from BM: BM would then either AD + IG or fortify IG or will + IG

OR

Demon bell + phys marrow + lure out the channeling on magic attack + heart of steel (8s) + magic marrow after heart of steel runs out + smack (3s) + blade hurl (6s)

Possible reactions from Archer: Purge

Possible reactions from BM: AD + IG until triple spark runs out

My only issue in staying in the Archer's face is him IGing - and I see that a lot once they charm tick. I try to set myself up to be the second one to IG and run them out of resources first.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Okay the box thing...again makes no sense. You said start with him sparked and antistunned? lol.

The situation is a box?

1.5 chi is not a heavy resource burn when you're full chi.

It is when your not able to quickly swap to fists. Openign with roar on a good archer dosen't work and your now 2 drake bashes away from the "apoc or be useless" point if they suppress chi with taunt and 2 bashes is pretty easily handled with an antistun geni. additionally you can no longer freely HF in combo for the fast kill

http://pwcalc.com/b2d7b43d7dad94c9 (Def level weapon I hit like 112 Def levels...)

Ok 2 crits your looking at 60%-75% survival here pretty much needs a purge to threaten with def level wep on

May not in your mind, but in practice it's worked just fine for me, even vs wizzies and psys too.

Your pretty vulnerable to geni spark combo but ya I could see this hating on sage psys hard

Your full +12 JOSD man the amount of top skill people with that kind of setup is honestly tiny there's very few people who know just how to shut down a bm or to abuse spike combo's on them well I honestly cant see you having much competition at the same gear tier. Thats actually such a problem on my server that a lot of the skilled OP gear players will actually match their opponents gear in 1v1's

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Btw, i would recommend breaking up each thought/idea/scenario into new topics. I for one am not going to read back the past two pages of walls of text that i missed. I thought we were talking about a cleric using mire, which now is about an archer triple sparking. I am confused.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Yeah, wasn't thinking it would all be on this one thread, it was supposed to be just for getting the idea out there.

Though not sure how well it's going to work, because we've already had people comparing end game BM against end game X class, with the idea to gear up. Maybe a different type of school is required to get across the idea newbie BMs aren't really going to have anything useful out of any of that kind of advice anyways. They wouldn't be killing end game characters. Trying to get various ideas based off of possible things they might encounter in areas they would have a chance of surviving or killing seems alot more sensible.

And while some BMs might just cash shop hyper up to 100 in a week or so, I wouldn't bother with them for advice anyways. Those guys can take the time save and use the search function, since their questions are usually from being too lazy to play. For them I say b:victory take one finger down and flip it around. Mostly just focusing on the ones who actually have an interest in playing their way through, and are just trying to learn more.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah, wasn't thinking it would all be on this one thread, it was supposed to be just for getting the idea out there.

Though not sure how well it's going to work, because we've already had people comparing end game BM against end game X class, with the idea to gear up. Maybe a different type of school is required to get across the idea newbie BMs aren't really going to have anything useful out of any of that kind of advice anyways. They wouldn't be killing end game characters. Trying to get various ideas based off of possible things they might encounter in areas they would have a chance of surviving or killing seems alot more sensible.

And while some BMs might just cash shop hyper up to 100 in a week or so, I wouldn't bother with them for advice anyways. Those guys can take the time save and use the search function, since their questions are usually from being too lazy to play. For them I say b:victory take one finger down and flip it around. Mostly just focusing on the ones who actually have an interest in playing their way through, and are just trying to learn more.

My thoughts on this

Pre R9 class builds are varied enough that scenario's can get pretty complicated based on your gear vs their setup. Srsly OP gear killed the variety of the game quite a bit. So while I would enjoy the scenario's there's a pretty huge and as much as i HATE to admit it ultimately pointless amount of them. Since most of the time you just have to go off of general class guidelines until you can peek their gear in a stun and the rest of the time their R9 of some cast and will be following some vanilla build and the only real strat is run like hell unless your at a somewhat comparable gear level.

It sounds a bit fatalistic I know but outside of NW non R9 (or comparable gear) pvp is pretty much dead. In NW well thats mass pvp and the amount of coordination available with your squad derp randoms and a few dozen other thigns come into play. But even then i seem to be either hosing lowbies/badly geared idiots or chanting "dont crit dont crit dont crit" vs highly refined R9's as I attempt to either gtfo or establish control for a kill from my team, and theres really not much of a middle ground

I guess I'll split my replies based on gear level however this really does seem targeted at the almost nonexistant "middle class" of this game. Since R999 dosent seem to need tactics outside of "tank it with my face derp" and anyone under 100 or full +7 tt99 with good ornies charm apocs and a geni is just going in for free points rather than tryign to be good at it.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

My thoughts on this

Pre R9 class builds are varied enough that scenario's can get pretty complicated based on your gear vs their setup. Srsly OP gear killed the variety of the game quite a bit. So while I would enjoy the scenario's there's a pretty huge and as much as i HATE to admit it ultimately pointless amount of them. Since most of the time you just have to go off of general class guidelines until you can peek their gear in a stun and the rest of the time their R9 of some cast and will be following some vanilla build and the only real strat is run like hell unless your at a somewhat comparable gear level.

It sounds a bit fatalistic I know but outside of NW non R9 (or comparable gear) pvp is pretty much dead. In NW well thats mass pvp and the amount of coordination available with your squad derp randoms and a few dozen other thigns come into play. But even then i seem to be either hosing lowbies/badly geared idiots or chanting "dont crit dont crit dont crit" vs highly refined R9's as I attempt to either gtfo or establish control for a kill from my team, and theres really not much of a middle ground

I guess I'll split my replies based on gear level however this really does seem targeted at the almost nonexistant "middle class" of this game. Since R999 dosent seem to need tactics outside of "tank it with my face derp" and anyone under 100 or full +7 tt99 with good ornies charm apocs and a geni is just going in for free points rather than tryign to be good at it.

Pretty much, the main thing would be NW. TW is too much gank to really formulate anything much, leaving only DT and cube randoms as a possible consequence. Open map nowadays is the credit cards who wouldn't PvP at all suddenly becoming PK fanatics once they could buy their gear and level. It's why I mentioned sometimes doing the optimal scenario isn't very useful: like setting up a stun combo on a R8/R9 weapon with **** armor only to see them one shot as you try to close with them. Even 3 weeks ago I would do the theoretical best approach, only to find I had no chi later and it usually wasn't worth it. It's where my switch to non-chi intensive plays came about in NW.

I suppose I could get around to actually equipping the R9 gear I have in my inventory, but quite honestly why? Right now it's fun as hell. I get the threat of instant death, mixed with equal gear, mixed with the ones that are cakewalk. Gearing up is kind of like saying, "**** it, why think." Considering I got 9.5K contri with no magic ornies while 3 sheets to the wind, that's more or less where I want to stay. As well, that is the mid range most BMs can get to with the current prices of Raps and Cannies making gearing up easy.

An average BM that didn't level up in like, say a day or a week, should be able to have Nirv T1 with +5 pretty easily all in all. They can NW for the tokens for Raps and Cannies while farming for their mats for gear. Or even farm herbs and buy the dang things. T2 would still be within reasonable, it's when it starts getting into G16 beyond +5 that they should hopefully know what the heck they are doing. Again, that would be assuming they actually played their class on the way up. So that's what my posts would mainly be aimed towards; or odd situations that pit the natural reaction, or inhibit the natural reaction, being brought up to give something to think about ahead of time instead of just reacting. Because forcing people to react the way you want is as good as doing CC in its own right.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Pretty much, the main thing would be NW. TW is too much gank to really formulate anything much, leaving only DT and cube randoms as a possible consequence. Open map nowadays is the credit cards who wouldn't PvP at all suddenly becoming PK fanatics once they could buy their gear and level. It's why I mentioned sometimes doing the optimal scenario isn't very useful: like setting up a stun combo on a R8/R9 weapon with **** armor only to see them one shot as you try to close with them. Even 3 weeks ago I would do the theoretical best approach, only to find I had no chi later and it usually wasn't worth it. It's where my switch to non-chi intensive plays came about in NW.

I found I could kill even full +12 R9 first cast after a purge with chi drain TE def charms and apoc however morai skills make it stupidly difficult to keep the level of control needed for survival. Try runnign the scenario's with a maxed chi burner geni and taunt spam, non barb/purify classes are still supressable if you can keep from being 2 shotted

I suppose I could get around to actually equipping the R9 gear I have in my inventory, but quite honestly why? Right now it's fun as hell. I get the threat of instant death, mixed with equal gear, mixed with the ones that are cakewalk. Gearing up is kind of like saying, "**** it, why think." Considering I got 9.5K contri with no magic ornies while 3 sheets to the wind, that's more or less where I want to stay. As well, that is the mid range most BMs can get to with the current prices of Raps and Cannies making gearing up easy.

I agree however most bm's... **** it most people on this game are to stupid or lazy to hit that middle range

An average BM that didn't level up in like, say a day or a week, should be able to have Nirv T1 with +5 pretty easily all in all. They can NW for the tokens for Raps and Cannies while farming for their mats for gear. Or even farm herbs and buy the dang things. T2 would still be within reasonable, it's when it starts getting into G16 beyond +5 that they should hopefully know what the heck they are doing. Again, that would be assuming they actually played their class on the way up. So that's what my posts would mainly be aimed towards; or odd situations that pit the natural reaction, or inhibit the natural reaction, being brought up to give something to think about ahead of time instead of just reacting. Because forcing people to react the way you want is as good as doing CC in its own right.

I kinda assume +7 as the base refine since its like 10 mill a piece on average.

I thought the archer 3 spark was a pretty good scenario along your line of thought here and sorry for bringing it to max gear level.

In terms of forcing actions bm's are a bit limited however we can react to or suppress many "oh hell" scenario's and limit the opponents forced control moves to a predictable set and then counter them in an unfavorable way.

In other words the bm class is flat out at a disadvantage in the first few rounds of a fight (setting those at 6 seconds because yes I admit to enjoying my tabletops) due to a lack of initiative moves however we can have a pretty huge advantage late game due to our ability to focus our resource conservation on certain things based on build rather than having the general "all are equal" spread

For example a +7 g 15-16 fist axe hybrid bm vs any ranged non purify class can freely sac apoc and chi to maintain mele while the other class is forced to burn CD's chi geni and apoc to keep that one factor.

Conversely a full tank setup axe build can freely sac range and geni vs the ranged sac's however they are forced into conserving apoc and chi in order to stay within threat range leading to an overall lower ability to trap any given opponent but gaining some leeway early game for mistakes.

To put it in starcraft terms BM's are terrans sure we cant godly control late game or zerk rush kill. But we can siege tank rush late game while declaring "where is your god now" while intentionally nuking the opponents key resources. This makes us pretty darn good in a 1v1 situation as long as we CAN kill the opponent even more so than sins in my mind.

In mass pvp the support and degree of communication we have and the opponent has can either give us the ability to quickly trap multiple opponents or royally **** our options over. So NW is something of a tricky scenario imo.

Some axe fanatic will probably jump all over this but I find fists to be an indispensable asset in any form of pvp for one reason, chi. Having the ability to swap to em in 1 click is huge since any HA class we catch suddenly becomes a free 1-3 sparks. (but tw blah blah blah, not used often but hey, if you can save a white tea for an immune pot or CE for HP/ToP/AD your creating a bigger impact than that second or 2 of stall costs ya even if your only able to get it by punching spawn poles)

TL;DR I'd like to focus scenario's on knowing what resources you need when and how to conserve them while staying alive (or not if it'll create a big enough impact) so that you or your team can get the win long term. Its redundant I know but I've taunted bm's rushing me below 1 spark leap out of roar and locked for the kill with them below leap chi after 1 more taunt/geni drain

Nothing really new for ya here tel but I thought I'd lay my full thought process and approach to pvp on this game out.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

I thought the archer 3 spark was a pretty good scenario along your line of thought here and sorry for bringing it to max gear level.

The scenario worked, it's the answers that are mostly what I was addressing. The scenario is actually one an undergeared would need to know, because they'd need to get the heck out of there flat out, unless they could provide support against them with stuns and such when it is safe.

But if we're going to get answers involving CS heavy answers, it loses the point of the exercise. So hopefully people can draw upon past experience, or current if still applicable, when giving solutions to the scenarios. If the answer can be summed up with, "charge more credit," it's pretty much a worthless response for helping new BMs. And even end gamers should at least be able to remember what they did while leveling up and PvPing to get in the right frame of mind.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

The scenario worked, it's the answers that are mostly what I was addressing. The scenario is actually one an undergeared would need to know, because they'd need to get the heck out of there flat out, unless they could provide support against them with stuns and such when it is safe.

But if we're going to get answers involving CS heavy answers, it loses the point of the exercise. So hopefully people can draw upon past experience, or current if still applicable, when giving solutions to the scenarios. If the answer can be summed up with, "charge more credit," it's pretty much a worthless response for helping new BMs. And even end gamers should at least be able to remember what they did while leveling up and PvPing to get in the right frame of mind.

hmmm I did ask for endgame answers since many of the folks here are the R999 Plevelers. I figured it would be easier for em than degearing. Was a bit disapointed.

In terms of reaction I think you can expect the answer to be "pay more resources" from that group. Though admitedly blade hurl>seal is a functional answer outside of apocs from archer

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Ill be honest, if Josh is involved, I'm out. His changing of the issue to win an argument and lack of in game knowledge ruined the prior conversation. Instead of it being productive, became a post of trolly Josh-is-the-man posts. Totally boring

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ill be honest, if Josh is involved, I'm out. His changing of the issue to win an argument and lack of in game knowledge ruined the prior conversation. Instead of it being productive, became a post of trolly Josh-is-the-man posts. Totally boring

"Tells noobie BM's all the wrong things so that I may kill farm them"

*evil cackle*

If only Maelael our hero the saint of all that is good and wise in pwi was here to stop me!

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Lets set these up as editions, for instance

BM pvp mechanics #1, Feb 25th 2013
"A cleric has Tangling Mire on the genie. What can be the purpose of this against a bm?"

BM pvp mechanics #2 March 1st 2013
"An archer triple sparks and uses an antistun apothecary as you enter melee range, what should you do?"

That way as the topic changes we won't have to wade through 30 pages of other ****, previous discussions, topic changes, and ego boosting. We can find the beginning and when Telarith (I assume he's taking lead on all this) decided the topic is thoroughly covered can end it. Also, any bumps or follow up questions will be more noticable.

Plus is Josh derails or topic changes or gets too specific in the details to make a point then that topic can die without the 'series' dying.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lets set these up as editions, for instance

BM pvp mechanics #1, Feb 25th 2013
"A cleric has Tangling Mire on the genie. What can be the purpose of this against a bm?"

BM pvp mechanics #2 March 1st 2013
"An archer triple sparks and uses an antistun apothecary as you enter melee range, what should you do?"

That way as the topic changes we won't have to wade through 30 pages of other ****, previous discussions, topic changes, and ego boosting. We can find the beginning and when Telarith (I assume he's taking lead on all this) decided the topic is thoroughly covered can end it. Also, any bumps or follow up questions will be more noticable.

Plus is Josh derails or topic changes or gets too specific in the details to make a point then that topic can die without the 'series' dying.

I resemble that remark sir!

Also stop posting already so I can pass up your post count again

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

"Tells noobie BM's all the wrong things so that I may kill farm them"

*evil cackle*

If only Maelael our hero the saint of all that is good and wise in pwi was here to stop me!

You've stopped yourself by being a doosh and a scrub. l2p and maybe your dooshyness might be tolerable.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You've stopped yourself by being a doosh and a scrub. l2p and maybe your dooshyness might be tolerable.

b:chuckleb:chuckleb:chuckle

Last I checked through the thread aka now there were 3 responses that worked at mid to high gear and 1 that worked most of the time at absolute endgame.

Last I checked my statements not relating to your personal gear stats have been 100% viable and I have admited I was wrong about your personal stats.

I will never consider "tank a 3 spark with my face" a legit answer but I did admit it would sadly work for you the majority of the time.

In terms of game knowledge here

Josh: Did not know Maelael's personal gear set

Maelael: Did not know about chi burning, does not get why burning 75 stamina for holy path is less of a sacrifice than burning 1.5 sparks cool downs and probably still burning geni energy.

I'm not saying you have nothing to contribute are stupid or are technically "bad" at the class however you approach to this situation was not ideal and is flat out unfeasible for 99.99% of the bm population.

Am i picking on you because of your gear? No the dan is arguablely geared as highly however he did bring up one thing we had all pretty much ignored in heart of steel along with presenting a clear "map" of the archer possible responses" Do I agree with his approach? Not at all (for a pure axe build, its actually a good idea for a fist hybrid) however HoS takes the low death chance and makes it nonexistant justifying the cost of keeping in range.

So I'm left with the conclusion that your needlessly butthurt that I dare assume a r999+12 trip sparking you with no resist skill on your part would kill you.

On the note of "Changing the topic to be right" have you seriously in your entire life never heard the phrase thinking outside of the box? I mean its even in kids cartoons now. I can make you a chart, with pictures if you like!

To clarify for future purposes:

I do not care personally about your feelings gear server status or even your personal opinion of me. I do lean to narcissistic in terms of ego however I attempt to fulfill said ego by gathering game knowledge and raising my own skill level rather than the standard route of "herp derp I r so pro on WC I kills ju nud with +12 r999 jajajaja". Seriously though I am evil ignorant and eat babies go you mr defender of all that is good and just! You have smote me with your mighty wit.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Blah blah blah

Keep talking scrub. I'm saying you have nothing to contribute as your knowledge is outdated and you aren't staying on topic. Describing ideas for a solution to a situation that doesn't even match the scenario that you yourself picked out, is dumb.

You aren't even on the level of people I know who picked up PvP/TW/NW a month or two ago for the first time.

You should champion for the QQgear whiners more as well, you might make friends.

You're not leaning towards egotist or narcissist, you're just flat out blind and lazy. You do have an ego though, as you fall for the baited posts each time. You won't/wouldn't GTFO, at least you're doing the service of showing how inept you are.

I realize you're butthurt at this point, but understand in my mind: I actually enjoy blasting garbage posts and garbage people. l2p Josh.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Keep talking scrub. I'm saying you have nothing to contribute as your knowledge is outdated and you aren't staying on topic. Describing ideas for a solution to a situation that doesn't even match the scenario that you yourself picked out, is dumb.

And you still dont get it, lololololol

You aren't even on the level of people I know who picked up PvP/TW/NW a month or two ago for the first time.

lolololol

You should champion for the QQgear whiners more as well, you might make friends.

lolololol

You're not leaning towards egotist or narcissist, you're just flat out blind and lazy. You do have an ego though, as you fall for the baited posts each time. You won't/wouldn't GTFO, at least you're doing the service of showing how inept you are.

lolololol

I realize you're butthurt at this point, but understand in my mind: I actually enjoy blasting garbage posts and garbage people. l2p Josh.


lolololol

Dude I'm trying the feely happy good nice thing, and you know what? It worked! I really did get to know you instead of just mindlessly bashing you!

And you just another r999 who never learned class tricks and cant master the fine arts of profanity and insulting language to the extent needed to actually irritate me, yet who resorts to them the second a topic leaves his control.

For the first time since I've been back on these forums I feel like i'm home! b:sad

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

ButthurtMasters?

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ButthurtMasters?

hemorrhoid flame mang

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

hemorrhoid flame mang

Sounds painful, should get some cream for that.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sounds painful, should get some cream for that.

Its ok I lanced it with glacial spike

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Dude I'm trying the feely happy good nice thing, and you know what? It worked! I really did get to know you instead of just mindlessly bashing you!

And you just another r999 who never learned class tricks and cant master the fine arts of profanity and insulting language to the extent needed to actually irritate me, yet who resorts to them the second a topic leaves his control.

For the first time since I've been back on these forums I feel like i'm home! b:sad

Hey Josh,

You're a fail scrub and a whiner.

Sincerely,
Reality