Pole Bm

X_Yoruichi_x - Dreamweaver

Why does everyone hate pure pole bms? Is it because we require more skill to play, than your typical axe/fist bm (that possibly uses a polearm, just for debuffs)? Or that we can survive alot more, without having to spend an extreme ammount of money for high refines? People always tell me axe/fist is so much better, and can name several pros...but they still can't tell me why pole bm sucks so much; so I was hoping someone here might be able to.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Okay, I'll bite. It's not because of whatever misguided notions of superiority you have, it's because limiting yourself to only weapon when you have at least two paths chock full of great skills to utilize is absolutely stupid. You'll always be sub-par in AoEing compared to axe and you won't come close to touching fists in one on one DPS. Poles are good for debuffing and knocking targets back, axes are good for straight up AoE damage, fists are good for single target DPS. Use them all instead of limiting yourself.

I feel bad about myself for responding to what has to be a troll.

X_Yoruichi_x - Dreamweaver

Yet you still can't answer my question. Just like everyone else. Beccause there is no answer. No path is better than another. And poles can aoe just fine lol. It simply takes more skill though.

Zanryu - Lothranis

X_Yoruichi_x - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yet you still can't answer my question. Just like everyone else. Beccause there is no answer. No path is better than another. And poles can aoe just fine lol. It simply takes more skill though.

Pure anything sucks. Period. Let me tell you why.

Pure Axe sucks because while having great AoE capability it's horrible for single target DPS.

Pure Fist sucks because while it's superb for single target DPS it can do virtually nothing against multiple targets.

Pure Pole sucks because while it's nice to knockback and debuff mobs it lacks the single target and aoe power of axes or fists.

That is why pure anything sucks.

Use them all, reroll, or go away and play what you consider fun. Though if it was only about fun you wouldn't really be asking in a way that suggests you believe pure pole users are top of the line beasts that'll faceblast anything they come across.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

X_Yoruichi_x - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Beccause there is no answer. No path is better than another.

Let me put it to you differently, servers are in maint, and the trolls are out.

Once upon a time we had a unicycle, we got a bicycle after that, we got a tricycle, we got a quadcycle. People call it a car. People started putting on more wheel and the wheel number goes up to 18~40?

Is any one of those vehicles best for everything? Wait, don't answer yet. Think about it, there is one right answer, the answer is yes.

It's a bicycle. You can cross any terrain in a bicycle, far more efficiently than any other vehicle. That is why a pole bm is wrong b:pleased.

Make sense?

Forgot, +1 post count, btw mods, please don't close this thread, we want to see where this goes. It might be a well reasoned point that the OP is trying for.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

A bm that uses only poles is like a wizard that uses only fire skills.

You can....but there's no reason you should.


You're limiting your capabilities of your bm just because you want to, not out of any need.







In reality, you should be justifying to the all-path bms the advantages of going pure pole, not the other way around. You're gimping yourself, we're not. So please, explain why. (I especially want to hear how you survive better.)

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

*taps monitor glass* Yulk, is that you in there?

X_Yoruichi_x - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yet you still can't answer my question.

I thought Zanryu did a pretty good job answering your question.

Axes have a higher base damage than poles, which means when using your skills they naturally will do more damage. As you get more and more strength, the base damage of axes matters more and more, meaning endgame axes and pole damage only gets farther apart.

Other than Glacial Spike both pole aoes are linear, which means you'll spend more time positioning mobs or position yourself and less time dding. Sure, with practice you can position mobs almost immediately, but they don't stay linear when working with a squad. Axe aoes are radius based and simpler to setup and more effective in a squad when the mobs spread out based on who has aggro, were they knocked back, how they were pulled.... Not to mention the mobs that just don't follow you in a straight line.

Piercing Winds requires a spark and has a 15 second cd, Meteor Rush has a 6 second cd, so now you have to resort to Drake Sweep and Fan of Flames which are two weaker hitting aoes and don't even fill your cds. With axes you can constant aoe, you can use stronger aoes, and you don't need chi.

Drake Bash, 7.5 second stun. HF, 9 seconds of double damage for the entire squad. Both absolutely beastly skills. Showless Kick used to be an absolute must for BMs to master interupting, but nowadays its sadly neglected although the good ones still use it. Cyclone Heel, a hard hitting aoe and great for 1v1 dps. MSS, life saver and prevents many squad wipes as well as the hardest hitting skill a BM has. Bolt of Tyreseus, awesome pvp control skill in a pinch. You say a BM that uses 2 linear aoes, a ranged poke, and a 50% debuff aoe requires more skill to play but its really sad if a BM has access to these skills and neglects them.

R9 weapons and GoF. Perma Spark.

I have a reason that if you do even bother to read the multiple reasons Zanryu and I posted on why all path is better you still will complain that no one gave you a reason.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have a reason that if you do even bother to read the multiple reasons Zanryu and I posted on why all path is better you still will complain that no one gave you a reason.

What about my reason b:cry, it was totally legit.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

What about my reason b:cry, it was totally legit.

This is PWI, nobody buys cars.. they buy R9!

soundslegit

I think the point is your either aoeing or single targeting and either way pole is not the best option. But they look cool to me and if I played BM I would do that rather than look like a wannabe barb or a human lobster.

Zanryu - Lothranis

soundslegit wrote: »

I think the point is your either aoeing or single targeting and either way pole is not the best option. But they look cool to me and if I played BM I would do that rather than look like a wannabe barb or a human lobster.

Nobody said you couldn't use the pole, or just wear it around town. Poleblades look pretty awesome if you get a good one, not to mention you look like a pimp when you walk around with it, just lettin' it rest on your shoulder like a BAMF. Man... wish I had an R8r pole. Musta been high or something when I chose fists. I want a do-over! I don't even remember getting fists! C'MON! b:cry

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Forget 4 path BM, now it's going to be all about the 5 path BM. With the upcoming expansion, they plan to release a 5th weapon for BMs to use. Here's a preview of some of the skills.

Pimp Cane Mastery: Increase gold gained from a mob kill by 5...50%.

Collection: Knock down nearest Tideborn Assassin and collect 100....1000 coins from them. They will spend the rest of the instance with a black eye. Useable once per Tideborn per PWI solar cycle.

Demon: Gain 10 reputation per use.

Sage: Remove 10 reputation on target per use.

Can just see the WC now: Looking for 5.0 sin run. For what? For any instance that gets you alone with me.

Strut: Lose 10...20% movement speed. While active mobs will not aggro; instead they will just turn and stare as you walk by. Causes stun effect for 0...2 seconds.

Demon: Overrides normal music to play "Everyday I'm hustling" to all players within 30 meters.

Sage: Plays elevator music.

******* come here: Summons 0...2 scantily clad women to attack target player. The longer they are active, the more they will increase status debuffs on target. Target loses 100 coins per second.

Demon: The women will cause damage to the target as they search for money to buy "rocks".

Sage: Target feels bad for the women, and increases coin loss to 500 per second to "redeem" them.

Shardik - Lost City

X_Yoruichi_x - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why does everyone hate pure pole bms? Is it because we require more skill to play, than your typical axe/fist bm (that possibly uses a polearm, just for debuffs)? Or that we can survive alot more, without having to spend an extreme ammount of money for high refines? People always tell me axe/fist is so much better, and can name several pros...but they still can't tell me why pole bm sucks so much; so I was hoping someone here might be able to.

Well , the thing is....we sort of ARE BLADE- MASTERS.

To be true masters we , as a group, need to not only be able to use them, that anyone can do

But our goal is to excel in this endeavor.

For that we must MASTER every weapon path.

EVERY WEAPON PATH.

We are not just some random guy out there with a sword, axe, pole or fist.

After all there is a in-game reason for all Blademasters KNOWING how to USE every weapon.

Why do you think that not everybody in PW knows that? Because reasons, that's why.

We are BLADE users (Yeah, one can use hands like a blade too, blademasters are THAT BADASS)

And i think that's it, mostly :P No one says that you shouldn't use poles, or whatevs. They only want you to embrace the full potential of the BLADE MASTER. One can say that specializing is good, but for a BLADE MASTER , it is like being crippled .

There is a reason for this to exist.

That's all :P

BTW Sylvae your post made me laugh, cuz it was very funny.b:laugh

Thanks for that b:chuckle

If BM were PIMPS, then one should struggle to get the category of TEH PIMPSLAYER

Should add one more skills :P

Flip the *Bleep* out: The players flips the *bleep* out, BM loses control of all weapons and goes berserk. ATTCK increase of 50 levels, Defense reduction of 30 levels.

*bleep* flying off the handle: The BM , in his searchs for MAD SNACKS YO, go and does a UNCANNYBRUTAL wheelie. *bleep* then flyes off the handle. 50% chance of succes. If Succesful, You get Additional Doritos, plus 20 ATTCK levels. If not Then the *bleep* seeks Marital counseling with the handle, this means +20 Defense levels.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

X_Yoruichi_x - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yet you still can't answer my question. Just like everyone else. Beccause there is no answer. No path is better than another. And poles can aoe just fine lol. It simply takes more skill though.

Guys, read this carefully. This scrub has already made up their minds.

Yoruichi, you won't find validation for your poor choices here. Try your friends and family who will tell you you're a pretty pretty snowflake, are the pwnzors of skillz, and never do anything wrong.

Shardik - Lost City

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Guys, read this carefully. This scrub has already made up their minds.

Yoruichi, you won't find validation for your poor choices here. Try your friends and family who will tell you you're a pretty pretty snowflake, are the pwnzors of skillz, and never do anything wrong.

But...but...being a pwnzor rulz b:sad

Lolol XD

But really poles do look awsum
b:dirty

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Pimp Cane Mastery: ...
.

I keep apsing to keep my pimp hands strong.

Yoruichi... Is Sakubatou gonna have to choke-a-****? Names themself after a shinigami who uses fists/player won't use fists.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Forget 4 path BM, now it's going to be all about the 5 path BM. With the upcoming expansion, they plan to release a 5th weapon for BMs to use. Here's a preview of some of the skills.

Pimp Cane Mastery: Increase gold gained from a mob kill by 5...50%.

Collection: Knock down nearest Tideborn Assassin and collect 100....1000 coins from them. They will spend the rest of the instance with a black eye. Useable once per Tideborn per PWI solar cycle.

Demon: Gain 10 reputation per use.

Sage: Remove 10 reputation on target per use.

Can just see the WC now: Looking for 5.0 sin run. For what? For any instance that gets you alone with me.

Strut: Lose 10...20% movement speed. While active mobs will not aggro; instead they will just turn and stare as you walk by. Causes stun effect for 0...2 seconds.

Demon: Overrides normal music to play "Everyday I'm hustling" to all players within 30 meters.

Sage: Plays elevator music.

******* come here: Summons 0...2 scantily clad women to attack target player. The longer they are active, the more they will increase status debuffs on target. Target loses 100 coins per second.

Demon: The women will cause damage to the target as they search for money to buy "rocks".

Sage: Target feels bad for the women, and increases coin loss to 500 per second to "redeem" them.

Errday.

Superfeng - Lost City

X_Yoruichi_x - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why does everyone hate pure pole bms? Is it because we require more skill to play, than your typical axe/fist bm (that possibly uses a polearm, just for debuffs)? Or that we can survive alot more, without having to spend an extreme ammount of money for high refines? People always tell me axe/fist is so much better, and can name several pros...but they still can't tell me why pole bm sucks so much; so I was hoping someone here might be able to.

This person has been playing since July 2011 or before?
Who is this noob?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Superfeng - Lost City wrote: »

This person has been playing since July 2011 or before?
Who is this noob?

Thats the date they joined the PWI forums (first post). Their actual join date is Jan 2009. Which makes it even more surpising that they think only using 1 weapon, and the 3rd least useful weapon class at that, is pro.

I smell a troll.

opkossy

Well it's either a troll, someone who quit a long time ago and came back recently while still being clueless, a bought account, or a not... very... smart... person.


But Sylvae's post is too awesome for me to lock the thread as long as it doesn't get necro'd or turn into some sort of super spam **** or something equally stupid. b:cute

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Way too awesome b:victory

You actually made me search for these skills, i thought you were serious b:cry.

Sjang - Lost City

wel for me i am a pole bm since the start 4 years ago and i never regret it i still love it i use a nv poleblade +10 whit ss on it and it work perfect to kill squizy sins and wizz but also it needs more skills to kill tanks so if u want a challenge to pure pole bm and kill aps bm then u will have fun .

dragonfire3001

X_Yoruichi_x - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why does everyone hate pure pole bms? Is it because we require more skill to play, than your typical axe/fist bm (that possibly uses a polearm, just for debuffs)? Or that we can survive alot more, without having to spend an extreme ammount of money for high refines? People always tell me axe/fist is so much better, and can name several pros...but they still can't tell me why pole bm sucks so much; so I was hoping someone here might be able to.

i have never know any 1 BM to go pure with any 1 weapon never

never meet one

never seen one

doubt any bm would

to fully use a bm u need to use all the weapon paths. depending on the squad u have.

aoeing, saving a cleric from a phy mob, taking out mage mobs to help barb serve better, or just simply doing as much damage as u can just too say u died 1st b:laugh

every weapon has its pros and none have cons b/c yr not holding to one weapon. what one weapon lacks another picks up

now the require more skill to use one weapon? really cant beleave that was said. i dont know about any1 else but i think its more skillful. to be able to use all 4 weapons and use every skill a bm has at the right time not just pole skills

so the reason poles suck sooooo much is yr pure pole. the reason y bm was my 1st class IS i liked the idea of useing multi weapons it seems to be a chellage why happer yr toon when he/she can be much much more

i could keep doing this but im not going to b:laugh it just simple why play a class that can do so much ( thinking about it think bm has the most skills of anyother class) but not use all its skills yr missing of (off the top of my head)what about 15 skills? thats just a waste and sry but if u say u dont have HF is a easy y to get yrself kicked from a squad ijs

P.S. love yr post sylvae lmao

SwiiftArk - Sanctuary

1. The mods here are awesome, they allow fun
2. @OP Really.... it should be extremely obvious O_o Pure path BMs are almost (if not always) inferior to multi path BMs. If I wasn't low on dex because I didn't spread everything out as much, I would be an Axe + Fist BM atm, currently an Axe + Pole BM though (Pole is temp). If you use different paths together and in a well planned out way, they'll always be better than pure path. Axe + Fist = Easy HF for example, instance parties will love you.

Therkiax - Archosaur

dragonfire3001 wrote: »

i have never know any 1 BM to go pure with any 1 weapon never

never meet one

never seen one

doubt any bm would

to fully use a bm u need to use all the weapon paths. depending on the squad u have.

aoeing, saving a cleric from a phy mob, taking out mage mobs to help barb serve better, or just simply doing as much damage as u can just too say u died 1st b:laugh

every weapon has its pros and none have cons b/c yr not holding to one weapon. what one weapon lacks another picks up

now the require more skill to use one weapon? really cant beleave that was said. i dont know about any1 else but i think its more skillful. to be able to use all 4 weapons and use every skill a bm has at the right time not just pole skills

so the reason poles suck sooooo much is yr pure pole. the reason y bm was my 1st class IS i liked the idea of useing multi weapons it seems to be a chellage why happer yr toon when he/she can be much much more

i could keep doing this but im not going to b:laugh it just simple why play a class that can do so much ( thinking about it think bm has the most skills of anyother class) but not use all its skills yr missing of (off the top of my head)what about 15 skills? thats just a waste and sry but if u say u dont have HF is a easy y to get yrself kicked from a squad ijs

P.S. love yr post sylvae lmao

Then you have never seen a pure vit axe bm for pvp.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Therkiax - Archosaur wrote: »

Then you have never seen a pure vit axe bm for pvp.

Wonder how that BM does in PvE. It's a specialized role using a specialized build, could just as easily say that fists are the end all be all because they far exceed axes in terms of DPS when you're killing bosses.

Guys, go pure sword. You can knock stuff back and lower their attack power! Best weapon ever.

BanMePls - Heavens Tear

OPKossy wrote: »

Well it's either a troll, someone who quit a long time ago and came back recently while still being clueless, a bought account, or a not... very... smart... person.


But Sylvae's post is too awesome for me to lock the thread as long as it doesn't get necro'd or turn into some sort of super spam **** or something equally stupid. b:cute

W0w I see to be a m0d these days they d0n't require y0u t0 be pr0fessi0nal in y0ur resp0nses 0.0.

Therkiax - Archosaur

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wonder how that BM does in PvE. It's a specialized role using a specialized build, could just as easily say that fists are the end all be all because they far exceed axes in terms of DPS when you're killing bosses.

Guys, go pure sword. You can knock stuff back and lower their attack power! Best weapon ever.

I said pvp hit endgame level 101 or 102 should be enough depending on gear you aiming for. No need to do bhs or anything anymore for exp is what I mean. In tw no class should rely on aps rely more on dps and rathe want DPS in PvP because the attacks are more reliant on a quick kill against a player in pvp. Also dps tends to hold the aggro against bosses and mobs not always the quick kills and you don't need any aggro on pvp since it is agaisnt people than mobs or bosses.

Edit: Also for pure swords,they may have great damage and knock backs that is more for 1v1 or duels since of not much aoe or stuns. It would be better if you had another weapon choice if your going to do that.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Therkiax - Archosaur wrote: »

Then you have never seen a pure vit axe bm for pvp.

How much hp do you gain over non vit bm? could you post your build? just curious about pure vit vs pure str bm for tw purposes.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Therkiax - Archosaur wrote: »

I said pvp hit endgame level 101 or 102 should be enough depending on gear you aiming for. No need to do bhs or anything anymore for exp is what I mean. In tw no class should rely on aps rely more on dps and rathe want DPS in PvP because the attacks are more reliant on a quick kill against a player in pvp. Also dps tends to hold the aggro against bosses and mobs not always the quick kills and you don't need any aggro on pvp since it is agaisnt people than mobs or bosses.

Edit: Also for pure swords,they may have great damage and knock backs that is more for 1v1 or duels since of not much aoe or stuns. It would be better if you had another weapon choice if your going to do that.

You basically said the opposite of what I did, pretty much agreeing with me. APS builds are used mainly for PvE, with some use in PvP. It allows a BM to kill single target mobs/bosses quicker than an axe build. Whereass an axe build is far superior for AoEing and getting a high DPH on multiple enemies. Each one is suited to a certain task, and being able to use both would put one at an advantage. Or you know, you could restat pure vit axe build and lose out on the fists. Whichever.

dragonfire3001

Therkiax - Archosaur wrote: »

Then you have never seen a pure vit axe bm for pvp.

thats great still dont see y u would use 1 weapon u want pure vit be a barb ijs