R9 3.33 or G13 4.0

Jesusisback - Raging Tide

b:avoid

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Jesusisback - Raging Tide wrote: »

Some half thought out concept...

You asked for people to give 3 examples of how demon was a more effective killer in instances "besides speed" which is a huge cause of efficiency. I gave you 4. You then tried to counter those with off subject examples of pvp, how you can tele to save a cleric sooner, and other completely off subject examples that had nothing to do with your initial point or what you asked for.

I find it ironic that "sage is for skill spammers" but when sages talk about WE they comment on how they hate to spam skills. And it does not average out after one minute. Its worse at 59 seconds, catches up at 60 seconds, loses at 61 seconds and repeats that every minute. This will constantly be argued about but if you are decent about keeping demon WE active you will have it on about 75% of the time in a TT and about 95% of the time in a BH where the bosses take less than 30 seconds anyways and the mobs have about a 30 second walk between them (when stealthing or you or the barb is pulling).

Jesusisback - Raging Tide wrote: »

Also i'd LOVE to see/hear an example where a demon sin can kill 50% faster over sage.

5 aps demon, 3.33 aps sage. Demon has 50% more dps because they are attacking 50% more often. Funny thing is that means the demon is getting the same amount of paint heals with demon paint as the sage is with sage paint (and I'll ignore that the sage is not perma sparked and has to stop to use skills to spark again).

Lets say the sage has a 4.0 weapon and the demon is 5.0 with the same weapon but the demon has swapped 2 pieces of gear so he's still 5 aps sparked but now has more defenses. He's now doing 25% more dps and has higher defenses, meaning he's probably taking about the same amount of damage as the sage with his spark reduction too. Throw on demon Rib Strike so the sin is being hit less than the sage sin (and unlike sage/demon Focused Mind this skill is spammable for constant damage avoidance).



I'll admit, sage has some great points and situations where sage shines but I still think the culti is unbalanced in favor for demons. Under about 8k hp sage shines for solo farming because of the damage reduction. Over 8k sage spark is basically useless because you're full health without it and demon still shines because of the aps increase and huge damage output. Most the time a demon is able to kill bosses before their special skills where a sage sin is forced to try to tank through purges, seals, stuns, debuffs, and whatever the boss throws at them because the sages are taking so long to kill.

Jesusisback - Raging Tide

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

You tried to counter those with off subject examples of pvp, how you can tele to save a cleric sooner, and other completely off subject examples that had nothing to do with your initial point or what you asked for.

Okay fine, maybe the pvp comment wasn't needed, but I just LOVE how you pointed out the most irrelevant thing i've said lol. The cleric comment was an EXAMPLE and if you read a few words before then you know what I mean -_- stop DISSECTING everything I write b:surrender

I find it ironic that "sage is for skill spammers" but when sages talk about WE they comment on how they hate to spam skills. And it does not average out after one minute. Its worse at 59 seconds, catches up at 60 seconds, loses at 61 seconds and repeats that every minute.

This is actually what I meant, but ty for proving my point further b:shutup Now I don't hate spamming skills, but i'd hate the idea of spamming a 40% Wolf Emblem on every single boss that I do, or using it twice or more on a boss with high hp, when I can achieve the same effect or better with sage WE and even better my friend....we only have to click it ONCE b:laughb:laugh

5 aps demon, 3.33 aps sage. Demon has 50% more dps because they are attacking 50% more often

That's not even fair since any competent sage sin WILL have windshield on their genie, so it'd be 4.0 for half the spark unless they're tanking, which is a different point.

(and I'll ignore that the sage is not perma sparked and has to stop to use skills to spark again).

Having tested this sometime ago, with exactly 3.00 sparks and 3.33 aps base you'll be sparked for 14 out of 15 seconds and ideally you'll start bosses with 3.99 chi. Again with the nitpicking? b:surrender

Lets say the sage has a 4.0 weapon and the demon is 5.0 with the same weapon but the demon has swapped 2 pieces of gear so he's still 5 aps sparked but now has more defenses. He's now doing 25% more dps and has higher defenses, meaning he's probably taking about the same amount of damage as the sage with his spark reduction too. Throw on demon Rib Strike so the sin is being hit less than the sage sin (and unlike sage/demon Focused Mind this skill is spammable for constant damage avoidance).

Stop avoiding the fact that we have access to windshield which increases our DPS and even with the right genie setup (which enables 2x windshield per spark) we can possibly even match your DPS. I also doubt that there's any ornaments that can give 25% extra defense (if similarly refined) and even a G16 +10 cube neck and r9r2 belt compared to +10 tt99 ornaments probably won't even be 15% more defense. You can argue about demon rib strike helping your survivability, but you don't even care to mention that on high hp bosses sage rib can cut off a pretty decent chunk of hp, which somewhat makes up for the lack of DPS.

I'll admit, sage has some great points and situations where sage shines but I still think the culti is unbalanced in favor for demons. Under about 8k hp sage shines for solo farming because of the damage reduction. Over 8k sage spark is basically useless because you're full health without it and demon still shines because of the aps increase and huge damage output. Most the time a demon is able to kill bosses before their special skills where a sage sin is forced to try to tank through purges, seals, stuns, debuffs, and whatever the boss throws at them because the sages are taking so long to kill.

Well I guess we're all entitled to our opinions lol, but I still think sage rules demon. >.> One thing that you're definetly right about is that under 8k hp base sage helps out so much more. In my aps ornies I have 6.5k hp base with TT99 ornies and let me tell you that IF I was demon I wouldn't be able to solo everything that I can at this point in time.


I wouldn't say demon sins are more efficient at PvE/killing, but that's just me xD

+1