R9 3.33 or G13 4.0

imnotafoooool
imnotafoooool Posts: 10 Arc User
edited January 2013 in Assassin
Hello everyone!
I decided to roll a sin, and I like it so much that I had to buy R9 ring and weapon for it.
Anyhow, I'm planning on going full R9 (and after loads of farming, full R9R3), and therefor I'm going sage. It's only 82 at the moment, but I already have 12 sage skills, so theres no turning back without days in kittyshop.

Anyways, I can't afford a -0,05 tome, so I'm wondering what weap to use to farm with.
I have all the -int gear except the tome, so with R9 I will be 3.33 APS. (I'll +10 them)
I'm thinking about either getting G13 nirvana daggers so my APS will rise to 4.0, but I will only be able to refine it to +5/+6, and therefor I'm not sure if it's worth to farm with the G13 ones 'cause of the lack of DD.

So this has left me in jeopardy, and I kinda need help deciding.

(The aps are with windshield)

Fyi, I'm writimg this on my brokenscreened iPhone, so I'm sorry if I wrote something wrong xD.
Post edited by imnotafoooool on
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Comments

  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    R9, hands down
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  • Jesusisback - Raging Tide
    Jesusisback - Raging Tide Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    You'll be 2.5 aps base and 2.86 windshielded if you're using r9 daggers without a int tome and i'll even link a calc http://pwcalc.com/f507d8806c02789b

    To be perfectly honest you need to get a tome or farming's going to be that much harder for you. (i'm assuming it's TT farming since basically there's nothing else a sin can really solo that offers decent profit) How can you not afford a Pan Gu? Yet you're going for +10 r9 daggers.......?? Maybe i'm not understanding something, but if you can afford to +10 daggers then you can afford a -int tome. Idk which sin actually gets r9 daggers before the tome, especially because r9 dags are about 700mil in cost when a Pan Gu is 250mil. (On RT)

    For TT farming obviously r9 daggers kill faster, but alot of times i'll find myself using my G13s for many bosses because the chi gain with r9 is a bit too slow and the bosses tend to spam debuffs left and right ALL the time (ihu 3-3 steelation) and with G13s I can gain chi quick enough so that I can spark off the HF, amp, aps reduction, hp reduction etc etc etc soooooooooo yeah G13s aren't bad for farming over r9 I guess, but anyways this is from my experience of farming TT so much with my terribad hp.



  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    For farming you might want to stick with G13 until you have the cash for R9, ofc

    But honestly skip aps altogether and go DPH sin 'cause NW is where the real money is to be made
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  • imnotafoooool
    imnotafoooool Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    For farming you might want to stick with G13 until you have the cash for R9, ofc

    But honestly skip aps altogether and go DPH sin 'cause NW is where the real money is to be made

    I already have 300k rep, 8 medal of glory and 117 general summer's tokens. Which is enough for ring and weapon :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Broohooof! b:victory
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    No, no no no no!

    Getting an R9 weapon before you get the tome is downright wrong. It's not right!

    And honestly: If we're talking on a Demon sin, R9 is going to win out either way. Not so much on a Sage.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
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  • imnotafoooool
    imnotafoooool Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    No, no no no no!

    Getting an R9 weapon before you get the tome is downright wrong. It's not right!

    And honestly: If we're talking on a Demon sin, R9 is going to win out either way. Not so much on a Sage.

    I have no more cash/coin, so if I bought a tome I'd have no weap. And I'm gonna use the sin for PvP, mostly. And for DPH sins, sage is way better.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Broohooof! b:victory
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I have no more cash/coin, so if I bought a tome I'd have no weap. And I'm gonna use the sin for PvP, mostly. And for DPH sins, sage is way better.

    So want to turn this into another sage/demon thread...

    I'm not sure on your goals. 2.5 r9 vs 3.33 G13 for... dps? Dph? NW farming? PvE? All around? For almost none of this does windshielded tomeless sage make sense.

    3.33 aps G13 vs r9 dps are very similar. 4 aps G13 Actually deals about the same dps as 2.86 r9 but ahs the added survivability of permaspark, and 5 aps G13 would beat that. 4 aps G16 would blow that out of the water doing like 70k more dps than either of the above, and the cost of Pan Gu's tome +G16 weapon is similar to r9 weapon.

    Dph? R9 is the better option. So is demon, for demon Wolf Emblem. Not sure if people realize how small of an improvement CoTD usually is when we are talking Jones Blessing and these 30-40 attack level weapons. If you have level 10 or demon CotD and 70 attack levels, the 30 attack levels from CotD offer you a 17.7% dph increase. Neat, not game breaking. Omg sage has 35 attack levels? Thats a 20.6% dph increase, less than 3% more than demon but people act like its a big deal.

    NW farming? R9s better. And probably sage, but for focused mind/tidal protection more than anything else. I mix dph and aps, especially since not everyone in nw is super geared. Some are super geared and dph won't do it.

    Overall? I'm still a fan of demon G16 or r9t3. Increased stuns and dph for pvp. Highest dps. Gear versatility because I get aps inc from spark so I don't need as much aps gear, so can be more defensive. Old arguments. My point was just to illustrate you should have a goal in mind for what you want to do for your sin.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • imnotafoooool
    imnotafoooool Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    So want to turn this into another sage/demon thread...

    I already made up my mind about sage, theres not a chance I'm going demon, so it's not a sage/demon thread, it's a G13 or R9 farming cons/pros - thread, or whatever.

    Not if I'm getting tome or R9 first, not if I'm going sage or demon, but what is the best to farm with as a sage sin without a - int tome. b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Broohooof! b:victory
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Farming tt? Unless you are farming 1-3/2-1 you are gonna want permaspark (4.0) and at least +7 armor. Windshield will cancel the damage reduction from spark so you wont have any defense increase. You will need the tome for defense increase and 4.0. Demon wolf is better for chaining with powerdash.

    Why are you so sold on sage? Demon beats sage on dps unless you are farming unsparked.
    The bloodpaint? The tidal/focused?

    +10 isnt that much cheaper than the tome, fyi.

    Going sage for aps and compensating with windshield just seem silly.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Azizsixer - Raging Tide
    Azizsixer - Raging Tide Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    In all honestly sage dmg reduction does help alot in solo farming tt...regardless of the math behind it in practical applications that 25% reduction does help alot....especially when steel/gba decides to be a b**ch <.<

    All that aside I'll just throw this option out there for the OP...why not get both o.O

    With the cost of raps these days its super cheap to get a G13 wep...so get ur R9 which obviously wins i pvp...farm some NW...make a pair of G13's and then farm tt or whatever else u wana farm...if ur short on chi hotkey ur G13 and boom instant aps boost...if u have enough and can dd a lot boom...R9 dagz...simple solution :D

    Btw...be sure to have sage tidal/FM <.< sometimes lvl 10 of either seems to not ever proc lol the lil extra from sage helps alot especially in pvp/tt :D
  • XxRagzxx - Sanctuary
    XxRagzxx - Sanctuary Posts: 258 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    In all honestly sage dmg reduction does help alot in solo farming tt...regardless of the math behind it in practical applications that 25% reduction does help alot....especially when steel/gba decides to be a b**ch <.<

    All that aside I'll just throw this option out there for the OP...why not get both o.O

    With the cost of raps these days its super cheap to get a G13 wep...so get ur R9 which obviously wins i pvp...farm some NW...make a pair of G13's and then farm tt or whatever else u wana farm...if ur short on chi hotkey ur G13 and boom instant aps boost...if u have enough and can dd a lot boom...R9 dagz...simple solution :D

    Btw...be sure to have sage tidal/FM <.< sometimes lvl 10 of either seems to not ever proc lol the lil extra from sage helps alot especially in pvp/tt :D

    25% damage reduction? So you mean to tell me they shouldn't use wind shield to up their APS period? In all honesty, sage SUCKS for farming in comparison with demon. You have to constantly spam your chi skills, which in turn you have to stop normal attacking so your not getting healed from bp period.

    If you are going to roll a sage sin and get full R9 it, you better either be a good mercher, or have another character to farm on.

    Second off, you have the coin to R9, but you can't get a -int tome. Yet you want R999. How in the hell are you going to afford 6k cannies and 1.5k raps? Sure you can farm it in NW, but if you get an average of 100 tokens per NW, that is going to take you 11 weeks just to farm the Summerwind Tokens. That isn't counting rerolls where you can only leave your daggers at +3 without scrapping/transfering.

    Then it comes down to I can't afford to go more than +5/+6 on g13 daggers that only take 2 mirages to refine it with. What in the hell are you going to do with you get R999 daggers that take 5 mirages to refine?

    If you are already saying you can't afford this and that, especially when they are MUSTS for sins, you just need to sell what you have and delete your character and just up what you currently have.
    Archer Build:
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  • Jesusisback - Raging Tide
    Jesusisback - Raging Tide Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    25% damage reduction? So you mean to tell me they shouldn't use wind shield to up their APS period? In all honesty, sage SUCKS for farming in comparison with demon. You have to constantly spam your chi skills, which in turn you have to stop normal attacking so your not getting healed from bp period.

    Wtf is this I don't even...................b:angry
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    25% damage reduction? So you mean to tell me they shouldn't use wind shield to up their APS period? In all honesty, sage SUCKS for farming in comparison with demon. You have to constantly spam your chi skills, which in turn you have to stop normal attacking so your not getting healed from bp period.

    Untrue.

    I'm a 4.0 base Sage and I never have to use any chi skills. The only reason I do use them is because I get more damage out of using Power Dash and Subsea constantly.
    Second off, you have the coin to R9, but you can't get a -int tome. Yet you want R999. How in the hell are you going to afford 6k cannies and 1.5k raps? Sure you can farm it in NW, but if you get an average of 100 tokens per NW, that is going to take you 11 weeks just to farm the Summerwind Tokens. That isn't counting rerolls where you can only leave your daggers at +3 without scrapping/transfering.

    I agree on the stupidity of spending your coins on something temporary if you have a bigger goal in mind.

    However, maybe he wants the full R9 so that he can go and enjoy NW? Honestly, 11 weeks isn't that bad, especially since you can probably cut it in half if you add merchanting.
    Wtf is this I don't even...................b:angry

    Ragz seems to be on some kind of "Sins are only used for farming" crusade.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Azizsixer - Raging Tide
    Azizsixer - Raging Tide Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Wtf is this I don't even...................b:angry

    My exact reaction lol

    *cough* not gona kill my dmg reduction especially after a purge when bp is off just to get a higher aps when you can pop blood frenzy (if u have it) or re-bp in which case the dmg reduction saves ur butt lol
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    My exact reaction lol

    *cough* not gona kill my dmg reduction especially after a purge when bp is off just to get a higher aps when you can pop blood frenzy (if u have it) or re-bp in which case the dmg reduction saves ur butt lol

    Well, purges purify the triple spark off also. Meaning no damage reduction from sage spark anyways because it'd have been purged off. Best option would still be to Wind Shield while you Blood Frenzy, repaint, or RDS/Inner Harmony to get a triple spark again.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • fruitsarecoolone
    fruitsarecoolone Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Just curious.

    I have a sage sin, right now, with all pieces of APS gear.

    Currently I use a pair of N3+6 daggers with 1 interval (they were a gift) but I'm considering farming and refining a pair of G13 daggers for the double interval and easier chi management. I know G16 outdpses the G13s significantly, but the extra sparking, combined with powerdash/subsea....

    What do you all suggest?
  • Buff_me - Harshlands
    Buff_me - Harshlands Posts: 492 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Just curious.

    I have a sage sin, right now, with all pieces of APS gear.

    Currently I use a pair of N3+6 daggers with 1 interval (they were a gift) but I'm considering farming and refining a pair of G13 daggers for the double interval and easier chi management. I know G16 outdpses the G13s significantly, but the extra sparking, combined with powerdash/subsea....

    What do you all suggest?

    I suggest getting double interval on your G16 :p
    Achieved R9 before it was mainstream.
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  • Nymphali - Dreamweaver
    Nymphali - Dreamweaver Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Hello everyone!
    I decided to roll a sin, and I like it so much that I had to buy R9 ring and weapon for it.
    Anyhow, I'm planning on going full R9 (and after loads of farming, full R9R3), and therefor I'm going sage. It's only 82 at the moment, but I already have 12 sage skills, so theres no turning back without days in kittyshop.

    Anyways, I can't afford a -0,05 tome, so I'm wondering what weap to use to farm with.
    I have all the -int gear except the tome, so with R9 I will be 3.33 APS. (I'll +10 them)
    I'm thinking about either getting G13 nirvana daggers so my APS will rise to 4.0, but I will only be able to refine it to +5/+6, and therefor I'm not sure if it's worth to farm with the G13 ones 'cause of the lack of DD.

    So this has left me in jeopardy, and I kinda need help deciding.

    (The aps are with windshield)

    Fyi, I'm writimg this on my brokenscreened iPhone, so I'm sorry if I wrote something wrong xD.

    That question is so stupid, that it answers itself...

    Look...

    R9 vs Warsoul.... R9
    R9 vs G16.......... R9
    Being that warsoul/g16 are way superior to g13 **** thorns...

    You got your answer. I am a sage too and I'm looking into some good ****, I don't plan to keep **** thorns for long. Congratulations on your 12 sage skills bud.

    PS: If you don't have the tome, you wont be 3.33 with the Catastrophe Stingers. Check it again on PW Calc. You'll be 2.5 based 2.86 with windshield.
    Another thing I think you should keep in mind, Catastrophe Stingers (r9 daggs) costs like 4x the price of an interval tome... You better make **** thorns and farm a tome. Then off to the long journey of the R9 daggs. Unless you're cashing in...

    Edit and PS number 2:
    Perhaps you meant R8 instead of R9... In that case...
    Boy I LOVE Rank 8 Daggers... but for killing bosses and hit anything with auto-attacks from aps gears, **** thorns do better. Know what I did? I made **** thorns but I have my +6 r8 daggs still and I switch them depending on my needs. Ill keep on doing that until I can afford doing g16 or r9.

    When to R8 and when to **** Thorn? Whenever you feel like using chill of the deep, R8. The rest of the time, **** thorns.
  • Cantabrum - Archosaur
    Cantabrum - Archosaur Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    For farming you might want to stick with G13 until you have the cash for R9, ofc

    But honestly skip aps altogether and go DPH sin 'cause NW is where the real money is to be made

    b:chuckle unless your making 800 tokens per nw or 500 atleast i dont see nw is a good place b:shutup is a fun place to **** charm and kiill and get killed b:thanks but for farm money is terrible b:surrender
  • Cantabrum - Archosaur
    Cantabrum - Archosaur Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    25% damage reduction? So you mean to tell me they shouldn't use wind shield to up their APS period? In all honesty, sage SUCKS for farming in comparison with demon. You have to constantly spam your chi skills, which in turn you have to stop normal attacking so your not getting healed from bp period.

    If you are going to roll a sage sin and get full R9 it, you better either be a good mercher, or have another character to farm on.

    .

    so a 4 aps base sin got chi problems? e.e did you even played a sin culti dsnt really matter, both cultis farm as well whit same gears. Only diff is refines you cant a expect a +12 weap sin whit +2 gear go solo bosses in comparation whit a good refined sin so please before talk this no sense go learn classes b:cute
  • Nymphali - Dreamweaver
    Nymphali - Dreamweaver Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    25% damage reduction? So you mean to tell me they shouldn't use wind shield to up their APS period? In all honesty, sage SUCKS for farming in comparison with demon. You have to constantly spam your chi skills, which in turn you have to stop normal attacking so your not getting healed from bp period.

    If you are going to roll a sage sin and get full R9 it, you better either be a good mercher, or have another character to farm on.

    Second off, you have the coin to R9, but you can't get a -int tome. Yet you want R999. How in the hell are you going to afford 6k cannies and 1.5k raps? Sure you can farm it in NW, but if you get an average of 100 tokens per NW, that is going to take you 11 weeks just to farm the Summerwind Tokens. That isn't counting rerolls where you can only leave your daggers at +3 without scrapping/transfering.

    Then it comes down to I can't afford to go more than +5/+6 on g13 daggers that only take 2 mirages to refine it with. What in the hell are you going to do with you get R999 daggers that take 5 mirages to refine?

    If you are already saying you can't afford this and that, especially when they are MUSTS for sins, you just need to sell what you have and delete your character and just up what you currently have.

    I am a sage sin and I farm pretty JUST-LIKE a demon same geared sin would.
    I have farmed all my gears, all my 20 sage skills just like a demon would.
    Every squad I join love my sage bloodpaint and subsea strike
    And I dont use windshield, I use frenzy instead.

    If I could go back in time when I was making my cultivation, I would choose sage AGAIN and AGAIN i wouldn't regret it.

    Know what? Think what you will, pretend people care for what you think.
  • SunDownXIII - Dreamweaver
    SunDownXIII - Dreamweaver Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Guess we have turned this thread into a demon vs sage thread once again. But seriously a demon Sin is gonna cut down mobs faster and more efficiently than a sage any day. And let's all be honest here the main reason why squads like sage sins is because of sage bp, but that is only to save them not the sin.
    101/101/102
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Also run around as a R1 seeker named WildFireXIII b:chuckle and now as a Stormbringer named xGrimStormxX, and no I'm not Grim from Kindred
  • Jesusisback - Raging Tide
    Jesusisback - Raging Tide Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I am a sage sin and I farm pretty JUST-LIKE a demon same geared sin would.
    I have farmed all my gears, all my 20 sage skills just like a demon would.
    Every squad I join love my sage bloodpaint and subsea strike
    And I dont use windshield, I use frenzy instead.

    If I could go back in time when I was making my cultivation, I would choose sage AGAIN and AGAIN i wouldn't regret it.

    Know what? Think what you will, pretend people care for what you think.

    1. Too much sage sin pride

    2. Using frenzy instead of windshield shows how much you know b:surrender



    Guess we have turned this thread into a demon vs sage thread once again. But seriously a demon Sin is gonna cut down mobs faster and more efficiently than a sage any day. And let's all be honest here the main reason why squads like sage sins is because of sage bp, but that is only to save them not the sin.

    Omg what are you even talking about....... b:angry

    Give me THREE reasons why a demon sin would cut down mobs faster and "more efficiently" than a sage sin because atm I can only think of demon spark and tbh that's only faster, but DEFINETLY not more efficient when it comes to tanking/staying alive -_-

    Omg guys no offense, but PLEASE know what you're talking about before you reply because atm I wanna cry from the stupidity b:cry
  • SunDownXIII - Dreamweaver
    SunDownXIII - Dreamweaver Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Lol non taken,
    101/101/102
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Also run around as a R1 seeker named WildFireXIII b:chuckle and now as a Stormbringer named xGrimStormxX, and no I'm not Grim from Kindred
  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Not sure if OP ever got his/her question answered.

    Comparing them directly, r9 @ 3.33 out DPS g13 @ 4.0. However, r9 requires you to spam windshield and you do not generate enough chi to perma spark at 3.33. I did not calculate how much that would affect you. I think it would lower your DPS by a factor though.

    However, as other people have stated, you cannot achieve 3.33 with windshield using r9 unless you have a tome. Using a tome, you can achieve 5.0 with G13.
    Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
    TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer


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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    1. Too much sage sin pride

    Give me THREE reasons why a demon sin would cut down mobs faster and "more efficiently" than a sage sin because atm I can only think of demon spark and tbh that's only faster, but DEFINETLY not more efficient when it comes to tanking/staying alive -_-

    Omg guys no offense, but PLEASE know what you're talking about before you reply because atm I wanna cry from the stupidity b:cry

    Besides faster IS being more efficient? Don't know how you can try to seperate them.

    So besides demon spark, which can be a 33%-50% increase over sage killing speed...
    ~Gear versatility=better daggers
    ~Demon Wolf Emblem
    ~100% sleep/longer stuns so you can focus on less mobs
    ~And arguably more effective aoe skills. The bigger range on ER means you need to be less specific in grouping and the longer subsea means you can get two sets of ER and and extra triple spark while subsea is still active.

    What I mean by gear versatility is, like this thread is showing, alot of sage sins have to balance their daggers with their gear because they don't get aps from their spark. For some, this means sticking with G13s which are super weak. For others it means giving up on aps all together, which is why you see more sage that are full r9 with 1.54 aps than you see demon that went full r9 in pve environments. For most it just means carrying two sets of daggers. Demons usually go G16 as they can be 5.0 or can substitute gear pieces to have higher defenses than sages (prior to sage spark reduction).

    Demon WE should be obvious. 240% rage damage and a 40% crit is mean.

    More reliable and longer sleep and stuns means better crowd control, meaning you can sleep/stun/freeze some mobs and not even take damage from them as you kill their friends. This might be an example of where more efficient means slower, if you're talking about not taking damage. For most of us more efficient means triple sparking and killing everything up in .00038 seconds.

    And I explained how demon aoes can be more efficient. You can argue that sage aoes being stronger can be more efficient, too. It's situational.


    ....pandering to idiots b:bye
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Jesusisback - Raging Tide
    Jesusisback - Raging Tide Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Besides faster IS being more efficient? Don't know how you can try to seperate them.

    So besides demon spark, which can be a 33%-50% increase over sage killing speed...
    Well on that note I was referring to instances like TT/Lunar, where sage spark/sage TP would definetly be more useful than demon spark/demon TP. Yes we can argue that with certain gears demon can kill faster, but lets not forget that we can still tank better and avoid debuffs better. Also i'd LOVE to see/hear an example where a demon sin can kill 50% faster over sage.
    ~Gear versatility=better daggers
    Yeah i'll agree that the gear versatility's nice and definetly a great plus on being a demon sin, but when your gears are at a certain level, then I personally think it doesn't matter as much.

    ~Demon Wolf Emblem

    This will ALWAYS be argued about no matter what I SWEAR lol.
    I cannot emphasize how much I don't like demon WE because I'd to spam it every 30 seconds. Now i'm sorry, but who in their right MIND would say demon WE > sage WE. You think 20% extra matters THAT much? I think not....and it even averages out on bosses that take a minute or more to kill b:surrender I would ONLY choose demon Wolf Emblem for FC

    ~100% sleep/longer stuns so you can focus on less mobs
    We have a 11 second Tackling Slash over your 9, which allows us to chain with Deep Sting to keep a mob steady for as LONG as we want without using any other skills. I really don't get the value of a 6 second HH over our 5 second HH and a 50% chance to save a spark......ONE second is not a huge difference b:laugh Also our Deep Sting may not be 100% but our Throatcut is 100% and in PvP you do NOT want to land on that unlucky 5% when your opponent has anti-stun on. I will say that your demon Shadow Tele's 5 second stun is VERY handy, but on the other hand we get to use ours 30 seconds sooner so......I guess you can weigh what's more important for yourself (I prefer sage)
    ~And arguably more effective aoe skills. The bigger range on ER means you need to be less specific in grouping and the longer subsea means you can get two sets of ER and and extra triple spark while subsea is still active.

    I have to agree on the usefulness of demon Earthern Rift in PvE/PvP and tbh it's one skill i'd definetly replace with the sage version because I honestly don't think that 30% extra WEAPON damage > extra 2m radius. Subsea's another one that's always gonna be argued about, but in the case that you stated, demon subsea would indeed be better because you could land 2 ERs with a 30% subsea active, while we can only land 1 ER with a 50% subsea active. (during triple spark ofc)
    What I mean by gear versatility is, like this thread is showing, alot of sage sins have to balance their daggers with their gear because they don't get aps from their spark. For some, this means sticking with G13s which are super weak. For others it means giving up on aps all together, which is why you see more sage that are full r9 with 1.54 aps than you see demon that went full r9 in pve environments. For most it just means carrying two sets of daggers. Demons usually go G16 as they can be 5.0 or can substitute gear pieces to have higher defenses than sages (prior to sage spark reduction).

    First of all, WHICH person in their right mindset would go and USE full r9 for PvE o_O even as sage that has got to be the most ridiculous thing i've heard. (UNLESS it was for soloing the new bh SoT boss)

    Back on point....again....yes demon sins have more gear versatility, but that still doesn't trump our sage spark reduction, and on top of that you make it sound like we can't roll a 2x int on G16 daggers so we can also be 5 aps with the use of windshield. G13s are pretty weak at this era of pwi i'll admit, but at +10 it can still do some relatively nice DPS since we can spam both subsea/PD without being short on chi for maintaining perma spark, and with G16 and 2x int? We can do the SAME thing.

    Demon WE should be obvious. 240% rage damage and a 40% crit is mean.
    MEAN as it may be, I still don't care for spamming wolf emblem every 30 seconds on bosses continously, when I can just pop on sage WE and just let it chill for 30mins......are you out of your mind? Lol
    More reliable and longer sleep and stuns means better crowd control, meaning you can sleep/stun/freeze some mobs and not even take damage from them as you kill their friends. This might be an example of where more efficient means slower, if you're talking about not taking damage. For most of us more efficient means triple sparking and killing everything up in .00038 seconds.

    What makes it more reliable? Your HH is ONE second longer and your sleep isn't longer, it's just a guaranteed sleep and in fact we can use our sleep even sooner than you can. I don't think demons have better crowd control than we do. Sage Shadow Tele for example is better because when something goes wrong in a squad and your Shadow Tele's still 30 seconds away from being off of CD and ours is not? Guess who just saved the cleric or ourselves......that's right....we did b:laugh

    Gtfo Saku >_>
  • tsyfall
    tsyfall Posts: 9
    edited January 2013
    JIBS YOU SAGE HOE
    SAGE SINS SUCK

    Jk <3 I finally finished my sin guide, btw. Wondering when I can post it, since I cant post any new threads.

    ALSO, SKYPE ME

    YES ITS TSY YOU IDIOT
  • Jesusisback - Raging Tide
    Jesusisback - Raging Tide Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    DUDE LOG ON RT I miss youuuuuuu QQQQ
  • tsyfall
    tsyfall Posts: 9
    edited January 2013
    I uninstalled, PM ME ON FORUMS