Flag Carrier Speed...

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

This probably applies to archers more then anyone else. Being a reluctant flag carrier that I am... I try to get my *** to capture point as fast as possible. Holy path + alacrity + charger will get me to capture in well under 30 seconds. But the problem occurs when I get there, the capture won't register for several seconds IF I dug the flag right as it spawns. One time I was sitting on the capture point with the flag for a good 5 seconds (almost got killed) before the point was registered. But say if I had to fight for the flag or it doesn't spawn in the pit that I was camping. It still takes me less then ~30 seconds to get to capture, but the capture would register right away.

I am proposing (wondering) if there is a capture/spawn delay... such as capture will not register for at least 30 seconds after the flag has spawn.

Seirina - Dreamweaver

I have also noticed a slight delay but I've never seen someone get killed because of it, maybe 3-4 seconds max.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

I've noticed this delay to if I use a charger orb or other speed boost to get the flag to the capture zone, delay last around 3-5 seconds for me though.

However, if I'm at normal speed upon arrival at the capture zone, it registers it almost instantly.

Evanera - Heavens Tear

I've had this problem as well. Carrying the flag to the platform and I'm just sitting there in the light for several seconds as people are trying to kill me (almost cost us a fight once). Other times I don't even need to be near the light and it counts it.

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver

Seems like a good arguement for apoth nerf, or somethign, because 30 sec flag capture is flat out too fast. Does nto give people enough time to put up a defense or react in time. The fastest possible time ought to be more like 45 sec or better yet a whole minute since two of them wins the battle and that is the object after all.

Lands are unattackable after a battle for like 3 mins, but two possible flag captures of 30 secs each to induce that is rediculus

Evanera - Heavens Tear

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Seems like a good arguement for apoth nerf, or somethign, because 30 sec flag capture is flat out too fast. Does nto give people enough time to put up a defense or react in time. The fastest possible time ought to be more like 45 sec or better yet a whole minute since two of them wins the battle and that is the object after all.

Lands are unattackable after a battle for like 3 mins, but two possible flag captures of 30 secs each to induce that is rediculus

Spend less time doing jack **** in the middle of the map killing random people and maybe you could have enough time to stop a flag carrier. It's very easy to be at a smart point in the map and catch a flag carrier in time.b:bye

CapnK - Sanctuary

Non-flag carrying people can use Charger Orbs also. And should. I catch people carrying flag all the time after they've used a charger orb.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Seems like a good arguement for apoth nerf, or somethign, because 30 sec flag capture is flat out too fast. Does nto give people enough time to put up a defense or react in time. The fastest possible time ought to be more like 45 sec or better yet a whole minute since two of them wins the battle and that is the object after all.

Lands are unattackable after a battle for like 3 mins, but two possible flag captures of 30 secs each to induce that is rediculus

Flag is using speed apoth? Use speed apoth to even it out then. I've seen speed apoth fail often, if they are anti stun, I usually just run and the moment it wears off, I immobile them, and they.....usually die.

And of course, just grab the flag before they do.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

I wish they would add a hard cap to flag speed like you have with archer stealth. It's way too easy to capture the flag at the moment, especially for archers.

To Kiyoshi if you feel like you're a couple of seconds fast just add a Wings of Grace after alacrity.

Geckofreak - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I wish they would add a hard cap to flag speed like you have with archer stealth. It's way too easy to capture the flag at the moment, especially for archers.

capture the flag in real life is about speed, so i think this should be too, so disagreed. Also having cap on speed just feels painful.

However for the issue of it not detecting you being on top of capture circle, I've noticed that too. It kinda feels reminiscent of doing treasure hunter maps, where you can walk over the spot you know is the right spot for awhile and then if you aren't able to make it appear, you relog, and moment you log back in it appears right where you were standing

Salari - Raging Tide

could be just server lag or something inbetween. I have only see it lag once with another player and instance was full, but never on me or my barb even when i use a apo. It very well maybe the game just catching up

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Ive still been in speed skills and had it instantly receive, and experienced the same timing lag.

Likewise Ive had it receive not right on top of the circle.

I've also had it instantly take it leaping in, or take a few seconds to take it.


It's either lag related or there is a like 3-5 second confirm delay for delivering the flag.

Mr_Swiss - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This probably applies to archers more then anyone else. Being a reluctant flag carrier that I am... I try to get my *** to capture point as fast as possible. Holy path + alacrity + charger will get me to capture in well under 30 seconds. But the problem occurs when I get there, the capture won't register for several seconds IF I dug the flag right as it spawns. One time I was sitting on the capture point with the flag for a good 5 seconds (almost got killed) before the point was registered. But say if I had to fight for the flag or it doesn't spawn in the pit that I was camping. It still takes me less then ~30 seconds to get to capture, but the capture would register right away.

I am proposing (wondering) if there is a capture/spawn delay... such as capture will not register for at least 30 seconds after the flag has spawn.

Hmm am I the only one that can't use holy path when I have the flag? I've had the flag a million times during NW and not one time have I been able to holy path. I have to use apoth pots for my run fast.

Xainou - Sanctuary

Mr_Swiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hmm am I the only one that can't use holy path when I have the flag? I've had the flag a million times during NW and not one time have I been able to holy path. I have to use apoth pots for my run fast.

People are using holy path right the second before the digging is finished. Genies disabled after you got the flag.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Seems like a good arguement for apoth nerf, or somethign, because 30 sec flag capture is flat out too fast. Does nto give people enough time to put up a defense or react in time. The fastest possible time ought to be more like 45 sec or better yet a whole minute since two of them wins the battle and that is the object after all.

Lands are unattackable after a battle for like 3 mins, but two possible flag captures of 30 secs each to induce that is rediculus

I get stopped all the time on my barb, using a charger orb. You know where the flag person is going and you get a message when they get the flag. Cut them off and stun. Anyone chasing the flag carrier has not only the same apoth options but also the use of holy path so you can't say they have an advantage.

And yes, I too have had the capture delay. Not sure what the cause is really since I often camp flag spawns and always use charger orbs, so it *should* happen most of the time to me. But it has only happened maybe twice so far. At the time I assumed it was like that quest lag people have been experiencing.

MiniST - Sanctuary

get rid of purify or disable it when carrying flag. A caster was carrying flag, purify proc, i purged, and it proc again right after >.> Archers carrying flag I don't really have a problem with since when antistun and speed buffs are used it's not up to chance, so there is a counter. But with purify, who the hell knows what's gonna happen b:shocked

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I
To Kiyoshi if you feel like you're a couple of seconds fast just add a Wings of Grace after alacrity.

I might have to start doing that... got immobilized one too many times during the last leg of the sprint.

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

get rid of purify or disable it when carrying flag. A caster was carrying flag, purify proc, i purged, and it proc again right after >.> Archers carrying flag I don't really have a problem with since when antistun and speed buffs are used it's not up to chance, so there is a counter. But with purify, who the hell knows what's gonna happen b:shocked

Maybe its time to stop the 200 damage dealing aps sins... and actually have classes who can kill them where they stand.

Fissile - Archosaur

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

get rid of purify or disable it when carrying flag. A caster was carrying flag, purify proc, i purged, and it proc again right after >.> Archers carrying flag I don't really have a problem with since when antistun and speed buffs are used it's not up to chance, so there is a counter. But with purify, who the hell knows what's gonna happen b:shocked

For some reason it never seems to proc for me when carrying the flag. When I don't have the flag it goes off maybe 15% of the time, but last night I captured 2 flags and it didn't go off once (and I got the snot kicked out of me the whole way there).

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I might have to start doing that... got immobilized one too many times during the last leg of the sprint.



Maybe its time to stop the 200 damage dealing aps sins... and actually have classes who can kill them where they stand.

i was helped several times last night by hook and thorn or g13 that help me get away from archers and wizards by hitting me for 80 to 200 damage, thanks guys b:thanks

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I wish they would add a hard cap to flag speed like you have with archer stealth. It's way too easy to capture the flag at the moment, especially for archers.

cant agree with asterelle more.
but its also easy for every r9rr caster with purify.

flag carrier shouldnt have a HP buff, but actually a debuff, and shouldnt even be allowed to use apoth, should have a perma amp, defs decreased, something.
if u take flag, means u know u can survive and that ur strong enough to keep it. this way ur nation mates in the battle would actually have to escort and protect u.
i dont get why carrying a flag would make you stronger (the hp buff), technically ur suposed to be weaker, not only by speed, but defs and attack too, u carry a flag u cant defend urself as well and attack as well as u would do in normal situation (cause well, ur busy with the flag maybe?)
i think speed debuff should be stronger as well.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

flag carrier shouldnt have a HP buff, but actually a debuff, and shouldnt even be allowed to use apoth, should have a perma amp, defs decreased, something.

What I am hearing is that... instead of me actually working (together) to kill the carrier... you want to make it that I can more or less solo any carrier.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

cant agree with asterelle more.
but its also easy for every r9rr caster with purify.

flag carrier shouldnt have a HP buff, but actually a debuff, and shouldnt even be allowed to use apoth, should have a perma amp, defs decreased, something.
if u take flag, means u know u can survive and that ur strong enough to keep it. this way ur nation mates in the battle would actually have to escort and protect u.
i dont get why carrying a flag would make you stronger (the hp buff), technically ur suposed to be weaker, not only by speed, but defs and attack too, u carry a flag u cant defend urself as well and attack as well as u would do in normal situation (cause well, ur busy with the flag maybe?)
i think speed debuff should be stronger as well.

Sure, as long as the flag carrier gains a temporary Soul of Silence buff with a proc rate of 90%.

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What I am hearing is that... instead of me actually working (together) to kill the carrier... you want to make it that I can more or less solo any carrier.

if u can catch it, but yay goal would kinda be to make it harder to cap the flag, not like how easy it is atm

Maelael - Heavens Tear

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if u can catch it

If you don't get stuck in terrain trying to catch it you mean.

Seriously, if the flag gets pulled by opponents and you're not checking the map and heading to cut it off - you're doing it wrong. 60% loss of contribution if you lose. Stop PKing like idiots in the center, win more.

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you don't get stuck in terrain trying to catch it you mean.

Seriously, if the flag gets pulled by opponents and you're not checking the map and heading to cut it off - you're doing it wrong. 60% loss of contribution if you lose. Stop PKing like idiots in the center, win more.

lol ur not talking to a noob but thx. explain me how do u stop an archer perma anti stun? how do u stop a caster with purify weap?

Knownase - Heavens Tear

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol ur not talking to a noob but thx. explain me how do u stop an archer perma anti stun? how do u stop a caster with purify weap?

By grabbing the flag before they do.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol ur not talking to a noob but thx. explain me how do u stop an archer perma anti stun? how do u stop a caster with purify weap?

-Reel In & Bramble Tornado (been there, done that)
-Archers can't perma antistun (totally sure)
-Purge (Venos rock)
-Enough damage to take out the caster (Been there, done that)
-Yell at the sins to stop proc'ing Purify on the Caster (Also done so)
-What Knownase said with the addition of don't have all your people out PKing or getting tacos for lunch not near the flag spawn. (Ideal in every instance I'm in)

All of which require coordination of your side in the Nation, and people working together. If I can do it - even with people in not R9 gear that I've never met before, why can't others?

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol ur not talking to a noob but thx. explain me how do u stop an archer perma anti stun? how do u stop a caster with purify weap?

I am talking to a noob about noob ****. An single archer cannot physically perma antistun the entire way. The best archer needs exactally 26 seconds to run the whole course. In that 26 seconds... only 8 seconds are antistun. The said archer can push antistun to 23 seconds, but by doing that he'll need to add 4 seconds to his total time. Keep in mind that i am talking about the best case scenario with no lag. And that is if he doesn't get purged anywhere along the ~400 meters between spawn and capture.

And regarding your purify weapon... the solution if even simplier. You kill the freaking carrier where he stands. Stop having **** sins/bms trying to aps for 2-3 digit damage.

Final note... if you don't have the brain power to stop anyone with a simple anti-stun or purity. Just ignore them and concentrate on pk. Cause chances are even if someone else stop them... you won't have the brain power to make the kill.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

I probably shouldnt say this but there are control skills that work through anti stun.

BM - reel in
Mystic- Bramble tornado
Seeker - transposition (?)
Archer - Stormrage Eagleon
Wizard - blinding blaze, ice prison (?)

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver

i think ice prison doesnt work

but idk whats the average gears on ur server, but you make it sounds easy to kill wiz/psy with full +12 r9rr and jades

oh and yay my bad, only 23 seconds, just need an other archer buffing the guy and he can cap the flag perma immune to stun or freeze b:shutup

and how do u want to force aps guys to stop attacking?unless u can control their keyboard...
i mean, not like half the aps toons were lvled in FC and actually dont have any clue what they are doing

and well, yay if it was everyone on the flag carrier, can probably kill it, but they are usually other ppl on the other side as well u know

im sure its easier to kill a barb with 50k hp than a r9rr caster as flag carrier

just saying capping the flag should be more difficult, its too easy right now

Star_Prism - Archosaur

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I probably shouldnt say this but there are control skills that work through anti stun.

BM - reel in
Mystic- Bramble tornado
Seeker - transposition (?)
Archer - Stormrage Eagleon
Wizard - blinding blaze, ice prison (?)

Wizards have several skills that other than stun with paralyze people or even just slow them, I use them quite a bit. The best skill we have for catching the flag carrier is "Soporific Whisper" which is a special level 79 skill. It puts the person to sleep for 4 seconds. Any wizzie over 79 that does NW should have that skill. It works great. It might only last 4 seconds, but sometimes that is all you need.