Too many locked threads recently

MagicChu - Sanctuary

I haven't been in these parts in a while. How's everyone doing?

If there is a concern about threads being derailed, trolls, or closing, how about mods just make a post of warning before closing it. For example: "This thread has too many insults, if you guys don't get back on topic I'm closing it." Or "this is a necro thread, is anyone actually using the info from here?"



b:victory

DoodsWH - Sanctuary

MagicChu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I haven't been in these parts in a while. How's everyone doing?

If there is a concern about threads being derailed, trolls, or closing, how about mods just make a post of warning before closing it. For example: "This thread has too many insults, if you guys don't get back on topic I'm closing it." Or "this is a necro thread, is anyone actually using the info from here?"



b:victory

cause that requires actually thinking on there part, besides hitting a single button. You cant get rid of the trolls, it funny to think that they think they can. hell just drop a thread in 4chan saying u cant troll these forums, and watch real trolling at work ;p

opkossy

Scroll to the bottom for a tl;dr version.


Something I think should be pointed out is that you really DON'T see many of the threads that would be closed/deleted/etc if we didn't take alternative actions... which is kinda the point. You guys can't see deleted posts and won't know if a post in a thread has been deleted by us. Likewise, if we move a post out of a necro and into it's own topic, unless we blatantly say we did it, nobody except the poster and the other mods will know and the necro'd thread will stay in the grave.

I'll be the first to admit there are times even WITH the position I've wondered why certain threads got closed and... I'd go to whoever closed it and ask. And there have been plenty of threads where we've discussed it between ourselves first and argued both for and against them.

That said, part of this is because there's now... six mods. Plus our admins. All of whom are active. The new mods are also well-established posters who know the forums and the people and can see **** coming a mile away. I haven't even had the position here a month and yet there's PLENTY of threads that I saw in the morning, knew would turn south from the first post, and left alone anyways. Cue later that day when I check again me being right and it either having been gone through by someone with a butcher knife, or already locked/depth'd.

Either way, though, fact is that even with all that, we are still human and will make mistakes. Remember that time in 2010 that the site had crashed all weekend? That was me finding out what a certain big red button mods have does. Seriously, though, we are gonna make mistakes and that's why we encourage getting PM'd. Nobody's gonna bite your head off. Well, except maybe Fuzzy but he's freakin panda so you can't expect him not to try that kind of stuff. At the worst, an explanation of why we did what we did is what you'll get. At best? Well you'll manage to convince us to reverse a decision that was made (IE: I've managed to have Venus unlock/move a thread back and this was before I got the position).








tl;dr version: More mods and more active mods means a lot more stuff visibly happening. There's still even MORE going on that you can't see on a regular account, though. We do make mistakes and if you feel we have send a PM so we can discuss it. We do read and appreciate them.

Reliea - Sanctuary

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

We do have a system in place for monitoring behavior. It's just not cool to start off that way because a thread can always be remade but banning a person for one bad day would result in 90% of the forum getting banned eventually. ... Also would like to add that if a thread got too derailed and had to be closed, that does not mean you cannot reopen the thread for actual discussion. There is no reason NOT to continue the discussion sans troll responses. If it was closed because the topic itself was inappropriate that's another story.

If indeed 90% of the forum would get banned eventually, I don't see how that is a bad thing. Not everyone would get banned simultaneously, so discussion wouldn't end even if people every day got a 1 day ban from posting. Really I'm referring to the people who constantly troll. The mods are doing a great job at being active on the forums, so it wouldn't be too difficult to pick out the posters causing problems and cut them off at the keyboard. 90% might be a bit high though >.>

I do think that re-posting previously closed topics is not a good idea, even if only closed due to derailment. Usually because people come in and derail it again, or all you get are comments like "this topic was already discussed and closed" or something like that.

ovenusarmanio

Reliea - Sanctuary wrote: »

If indeed 90% of the forum would get banned eventually, I don't see how that is a bad thing. Not everyone would get banned simultaneously, so discussion wouldn't end even if people every day got a 1 day ban from posting. Really I'm referring to the people who constantly troll. The mods are doing a great job at being active on the forums, so it wouldn't be too difficult to pick out the posters causing problems and cut them off at the keyboard. 90% might be a bit high though >.>

I do think that re-posting previously closed topics is not a good idea, even if only closed due to derailment. Usually because people come in and derail it again, or all you get are comments like "this topic was already discussed and closed" or something like that.

Most of the time people get the message the first time it was closed although there are some posters that are bent on flaming a thread. I can only refer them to the GMs at that point, since mods have no ability to mute/ban a poster. This is especially true of threads that get created after the original post was closed for necro.

viciousminx

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

You realize your comment just begs for a question of "what about the bush?" in all its double-entendre goodness, right?

I know right. Sometimes I slip back into the old days when everything anyone said was all double-entendre goodness. When you posted that about the coats, just couldn't resist.

With derailed topics, sometimes it's difficult to pull out just the bad bits an save the good. You have to look at the amount of times the troll/flaming posts are quoted in the legit replies. To remove all evidence of the offending posts it's going to leave big gaps in the discussion making it better to close and start fresh.

krisnda

I like the necro rule

opkossy

It's been over an hour since the last post here, Kris!

*closes for necro and warns Kris* b:angry

DoodsWH - Sanctuary

OPKossy wrote: »

Scroll to the bottom for a tl;dr version.


Something I think should be pointed out is that you really DON'T see many of the threads that would be closed/deleted/etc if we didn't take alternative actions... which is kinda the point. You guys can't see deleted posts and won't know if a post in a thread has been deleted by us. Likewise, if we move a post out of a necro and into it's own topic, unless we blatantly say we did it, nobody except the poster and the other mods will know and the necro'd thread will stay in the grave.

I'll be the first to admit there are times even WITH the position I've wondered why certain threads got closed and... I'd go to whoever closed it and ask. And there have been plenty of threads where we've discussed it between ourselves first and argued both for and against them.

That said, part of this is because there's now... six mods. Plus our admins. All of whom are active. The new mods are also well-established posters who know the forums and the people and can see **** coming a mile away. I haven't even had the position here a month and yet there's PLENTY of threads that I saw in the morning, knew would turn south from the first post, and left alone anyways. Cue later that day when I check again me being right and it either having been gone through by someone with a butcher knife, or already locked/depth'd.

Either way, though, fact is that even with all that, we are still human and will make mistakes. Remember that time in 2010 that the site had crashed all weekend? That was me finding out what a certain big red button mods have does. Seriously, though, we are gonna make mistakes and that's why we encourage getting PM'd. Nobody's gonna bite your head off. Well, except maybe Fuzzy but he's freakin panda so you can't expect him not to try that kind of stuff. At the worst, an explanation of why we did what we did is what you'll get. At best? Well you'll manage to convince us to reverse a decision that was made (IE: I've managed to have Venus unlock/move a thread back and this was before I got the position).



tl;dr version: More mods and more active mods means a lot more stuff visibly happening. There's still even MORE going on that you can't see on a regular account, though. We do make mistakes an if you feel we have send a PM so we can discuss it. We do read and appreciate them.

Honestly i didnt believe at first the whoel bunch of mods suddenly, but now with the responses and such. Nice. specially that last part. *Troll Mode Disengaged*


Hope to see more interaction like this and maybe i can actually contribute instead of the dribble. b:pleased

Alkrivar - Sanctuary

I honestly see no problem with the way this forum is run.

I been in many in my internet years since end 2004. Many too lax, too full of trolling, flaming and trash talking, some of which had trolls who spoke of X-Rated content when the forum was clearly against it. Some where politics became a heated debate.

One of those was the true Third Reich, where you couldn't disagree on anything or do your thing even if it was a legitimate thread within the scope of the rules. It was tense to keep staying on the forum so much I eventually left.

Another forum was just too lax the moderators let people get away with anything. Just didn't care, even though one or two mods did, it just didn't work out.

The last one i'm going to mention is one that had a functional mod team, but they were disorganized, they didn't do their jobs properly, leading to the forum becoming less moderated in many areas and not where it mattered. Some were a bit power crazy too.

PWI's forum team here beats all of those, I know how hard it can be, having been a mod for smaller communities in the past. But this team does an excellent job as they are, people make mistakes, but the locking standards are perfect, it makes them a fully active team, I don't see what the problem is at all, they're great!

Thats a good impression for someone that's not been on the forums for long.

FanFon - Dreamweaver

Yeah but too much power in the hands of the moderators may be a problem.

For example if a moderator merely disagrees with a view point and doesn't like to argue with said players it restricts the community.

ovenusarmanio

FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yeah but too much power in the hands of the moderators may be a problem.

For example if a moderator merely disagrees with a view point and doesn't like to argue with said players it restricts the community.

Thankfully ALL of the mods are open to discussion about moderated threads all it takes a pm.

opkossy

FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yeah but too much power in the hands of the moderators may be a problem.

Good thing the moderators don't have "too much power" then, isn't it? Unless they added in more than standard forum moderation tools somewhere...

FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

For example if a moderator merely disagrees with a view point and doesn't like to argue with said players it restricts the community.

... What's this supposed to even mean? How do you go from disagreement with a viewpoint to arguing with said players with no mention of players prior to that moment? And how is this supposed to suddenly restrict the community? It's not as though they can't just... you know... choose to not argue the topic and simply moderate the thread while ignoring or not responding to the discussion.

And if this is a silent jab at what happened to your most recent thread.. where you outright stated to be trolling at the end, then pardon me while I go over that way and laugh at you attempting to say that a mod doing their job is somehow abusing power an restricting the community.

Kitkate - Dreamweaver

This thread really will be closed now if this drags over from the other thread.

FanFon - Dreamweaver

OPKossy wrote: »

Good thing the moderators don't have "too much power" then, isn't it? Unless they added in more than standard forum moderation tools somewhere...


... What's this supposed to even mean? How do you go from disagreement with a viewpoint to arguing with said players with no mention of players prior to that moment? And how is this supposed to suddenly restrict the community? It's not as though they can't just... you know... choose to not argue the topic and simply moderate the thread while ignoring or not responding to the discussion.

And if this is a silent jab at what happened to your most recent thread.. where you outright stated to be trolling at the end, then pardon me while I go over that way and laugh at you attempting to say that a mod doing their job is somehow abusing power an restricting the community.

Means you are human to and are not gods. You are not perfect beings to be worshiped. It only takes one bad moderator to **** things over that is what it means. It only takes a little power to corrupt a man, and that thread is done and dead.

Do you wish to start arguing me and have an excuse to close this one because of the flames and trolling?

^example of temptation do not bite.

Kitkate - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This thread really will be closed now if this drags over from the other thread.

Tempting but no i'm not gonna go there, this is not my thread so i'll leave it to close itself.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Can merged threads be unmerged?

That's probably my only complaint at times when mods merge threads, making the good ones or ones with a different point of view become all messy and ruins the flow of the topic.

Breannak - Raging Tide

Personally, I don't think these new mods they hired are just locking threads just for the hell of it. Sometimes they see things from a different point of view than we do, thats all.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

OPKossy wrote: »

... What's this supposed to even mean? How do you go from disagreement with a viewpoint to arguing with said players with no mention of players prior to that moment? And how is this supposed to suddenly restrict the community? It's not as though they can't just... you know... choose to not argue the topic and simply moderate the thread while ignoring or not responding to the discussion.

And if this is a silent jab at what happened to your most recent thread.. where you outright stated to be trolling at the end, then pardon me while I go over that way and laugh at you attempting to say that a mod doing their job is somehow abusing power an restricting the community.

no i think he means like in general. (i hope) Times where say, you do pm a mod or admin or something and explain your point. They nod their head but it would be safe to say that the majority of the time you would end up with them nodding but not undoing what they already did. Moreso than not, you probably would get this sort of response where they would keep their choice and choose not to argue any further. It is a psychological thing through observation that people with some sort of power who have been pointed out often show little sign of contrition. Altho i think this would be a rare case. Most smart pple just choose to deal with it, altho a bit disgruntled, and trolls just end up making spam threads just to have it locked or deleted again. >_>;;

FanFon - Dreamweaver

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

no i think he means like in general. (i hope) Times where say, you do pm a mod or admin or something and explain your point. They nod their head but it would be safe to say that the majority of the time you would end up with them nodding but not undoing what they already did. Moreso than not, you probably would get this sort of response where they would keep their choice and choose not to argue any further. It is a psychological thing through observation that people with some sort of power who have been pointed out often show little sign of contrition. Altho i think this would be a rare case. Most smart pple just choose to deal with it, altho a bit disgruntled, and trolls just end up making spam threads just to have it locked or deleted again. >_>;;

Correct locking up threads before they are fully flushed out is kind of pointless.

Breannak - Raging Tide wrote: »

Personally, I don't think these new mods they hired are just locking threads just for the hell of it. Sometimes they see things from a different point of view than we do, thats all.

Question is where do you draw the line?

viciousminx

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Can merged threads be unmerged?

That's probably my only complaint at times when mods merge threads, making the good ones or ones with a different point of view become all messy and ruins the flow of the topic.

We get stuck with the chronological order they were posted in while merging, so you do have a point about stuff getting jumbled up. That dives me nuts as well an as far as unmerge goes, let's not even go there on how messy things would get.

Breannak - Raging Tide

FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Correct locking up threads before they are fully flushed out is kind of pointless.



Question is where do you draw the line?

Someone who constantly nitpicks with you, everything that you do.

Veneir - Dreamweaver

Well, I do think it's loveily the moddies are attentive especially for the actually nonsense threads that do need to be locked (which is most of the cases).. threads that diverge from the OP topic into a mainily similar one seem to have alooot lower of a leeway of posts before they get closed than they used to, though. Like they used to have about two or three pages now they have like... one or a bit less than one xD For shorter threads anyway not the ones that are like 40 pages.

The only change I notice in my normal forum using that's a little awkward when I think about it, is that now I always just by habit glance down at the little box that tells you 'You may post new threads You may post replies' and blah blah blah... to make sure it's still actually open before posting. o.o'

/skippedreadingtheotherpagessorryxD

ovenusarmanio

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

no i think he means like in general. (i hope) Times where say, you do pm a mod or admin or something and explain your point. They nod their head but it would be safe to say that the majority of the time you would end up with them nodding but not undoing what they already did. Moreso than not, you probably would get this sort of response where they would keep their choice and choose not to argue any further. It is a psychological thing through observation that people with some sort of power who have been pointed out often show little sign of contrition. Altho i think this would be a rare case. Most smart pple just choose to deal with it, altho a bit disgruntled, and trolls just end up making spam threads just to have it locked or deleted again. >_>;;

I have personally edited lock thread posts, unlocked threads, and moved to them other sub-forums through the pm. It's totally unfair to assume that a pm wouldn't do anything. In my case I know that just isn't true. In addition I make it a point to be prompt with my responses and check my pm everyday that I can. There is a bias result of observation on your end too, whereas things not being resolved fairly in your opinion will stick out more than when things are going well despite what actually happens the majority of the time. That doesn't make the pm thing true though. Mods not responding to pms is a self fulfilling prophecy when you don't ever actually send the pm in the first place. We can't respond to things you don't send. That does not mean we wouldn't have if you had though. And sometimes the proper response IS to tell you that the decision won't be reversed and explain a bit more about why. Sometimes we may have made a mistake and will reverse the decision. I know that I have done so on more than one occassion.

viciousminx

After all is said an done we are players just like everyone else. We fight for the issues that are in need an try to keep the community one you can all be proud to be a part of.

skaitavia

Don't hate the mods

But in all seriousness, we are only doing our job, and we draw the line where we see fit, as each one of us has different views and judgment, all of which are righteous!

If I get messages regarding an action of mine, I'll look back to it and consider the message(s) closely, so if players feel some thread has been locked and should not have been, then I will change it based on my judgment.

I also kind of agree with the thread merging that's been happening. I think from now on the best thing to do is to have a grand thread, and just post in every thread that is regarding that topic a link to the grand thread, and then close it. It'll make things easier to follow.

Just my two bits!

Metsomi - Sanctuary

i'm one ppl who got locked at posts b:surrender so i can talk from my view :P lool and hope mods not lock this after my comment :P :P.

bout me 90% of my angry comment write it after pwi events like tiger event , NW or TW .
and as you know first thing should do if u feel angry " turn off game directly " so next place will be here at form , mostly main reason right it in bad way its - Venting their anger -
and its like lots bad thing was hold inside gone and go out my body b:angry

one of bad moment happen to me its see ppl keep killing my and they enjoy that , they know i have noob gear so they keep killing me for no reason , like for example in cube AFK room , i didnt do anything just some show up to me .. and poke i'm die X.X .

in other hand we the player ppl who keep play this game like years can know some staff about game more than development ppl :P in any projects the test part most important one cuz its give feed back about any work ,

anyway i wish if there any place ppl can say what they want like " Hyde Park " in U.K ppl can say what they want and member know if what other yell .. say good or bad they have choice to speak XD

i want at end thanx all mods ppl i know they have lots responsibility here and they did good work , and they really answer any question ask here and show care in every point at end they do there job so no need hate them ^_^
thanx again mods b:dirty

TempleSlave - Lost City

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Can merged threads be unmerged?

No. Once a thread is merged, that's it.

condo2009

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1511041

I don't ever concider this a necro and never will when only 1-1/2 months old.

Desdi - Sanctuary

condo2009 wrote: »

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1511041

I don't ever concider this a necro and never will when only 1-1/2 months old.

As far as I know necro is considered for every thread that's has been inactive for 30 days (a month) o.o Whether you as an individual consider such threads dead or not, the GMs have to follow the rules regardless.

On topic; yeah I've noticed a lot of threads closing lately but I didn't pay much attention to it so I won't comment. I have to agree with the merging though. It makes everything very confusing and the suggestion to make a whole new thread to include links with the related/similar threads sounds like a great solution to me.

Xainou - Sanctuary

TempleSlave - Lost City wrote: »

No. Once a thread is merged, that's it.

Wrong. Mods actually can take a post and create a new thread from it.