Nation War Supply Token Costs

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary

There's a part on all this that I don't get.

Even if the canny price would drop to a non-relevant price, Lunar Gold(Ye I prefer tradable stuff),still cost around 30M a piece,isn't?

Empu - Sanctuary

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

There is a stumbling block for most r9 though. They have +10~+12 gear pieces with vit stones or josd. Getting it to 3rd cast will require a significant amount of chienkun stones. Losing the refines and stones will require major cash inflow to reach previous levels. Not everyone is making the switch quickly, i think, i could be wrong.

You're right about that. I for 1 won't go recasting my r9. I might go for the 2nd recast that keeps refines/shards if raps/cannies become cheap enough (yeah, I won't do NW cause of the timing like for 95% of the events), but I won't go furter even though I got almost all molds in my bank. Same like I decided not to up my G15 HA set for G16.

Overall, I'm not really sure wether to be happy or unhappy about the expension when related to NW. I see it as a good thing that there is a way to acquire gear in a way that doesn't require massive cashshopping, merchanting or weapon linking, but simply by playing the game a way most seem to enjoy while getting to their goals. As it seems, no real gear requirement seems to be really necessary either, which is great. However, it's freaking annoying it's time-bound. It's probably just a temporary effect, but still anoying and poorly managed. TW has always been a 1% of the server instance cause of timing and gear. NW will be a 10% of the server instance cause of timing. For the rest, it will simply be noticable on items pricing. I really wish PWI would change it's "Server X = only players from GMT +/-Y" approach.

On the price effect, it does remind me of the r8 sales in a way. It's just over-done. Within a few weeks or months, G15/G16 nirvana will become the plain average basic gear like r8 has become. Sure, I'm happy for all those who couldn't afford it before, that they will finally get their bling-bling gear, which will loose it's shininess with everyone having it. Also nice for those who can finally get 5 aps +10 to join nirvana squads, which will stop to exist besides a few friend runs. Since the rep sales, better gear was the goal to do instances faster, in terms of the run (kill in 1 spark) or for squad making (any class being able to tank anything). Now we have an event that will pawn litterally any instance for mats. Everyone will become unkillable and all instances loose their incentive to be run (and we all know the PWI community does nothing if there's no coin behind it). At this rate, they can just banish all pve content. Nirvana and TT were actually fun when bosses could still kill players and weren't killed before they could do anything.

So mixed fealing here. Great that they break up the "5aps +12" gameplay, but why did they have to exagerate so much on those rewards ?

And again the time b:shutup Would it really be so bad to have several times or a "1 round every hour" concept b:surrender

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary

PWI could have split NW in 2 turns x day with a 12-hour difference between turns.

Each account can sign in for a single turn per day, that means, If I decided to go at the 12 pm PDT+7 I won't be able to get into the 0 am PDT+7 of the same day.

This way every player would get the chance to play an event on a more fitting time...

Not gonna happen

Empu - Sanctuary

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

PWI could have split NW in 2 turns x day with a 12-hour difference between turns.

Each account can sign in for a single turn per day, that means, If I decided to go at the 12 pm PDT+7 I won't be able to get into the 0 am PDT+7 of the same day.

This way every player would get the chance to play an event on a more fitting time...

Not gonna happen

They also could have done a system with 1 round every 1~2h, to make it continuous and equally accessable to every time zone, and even for those with real life obligations.

But meh, I lost all hope PWI would ever see how international the servers are the day they made the distinction between "east" and "west". It really sucks that the gear progression combined with sales and lack of rebalancing pve content to those 2 issues, pushes the game mainly to events and timezone content. While it's that content that the great majority of the players don't have acces too.

Sorry for a little off-topic rant

stealth123

so what you are basically making point in here is raps and unc have become very cheap?........ first you must be a 5 aps bm or sin to think about this question..... ok now 2x comes you get to farm a lot of raps with another sin/bm to duo nirv .... you think your are very skilled by doing so ..... my firnd it doesnt take skill to farm nirv matts .... it only takes a lot of patience to do the same boring instance a lot of times under a few mins .... next so this way you get access to your required matts .... what about the non aps class? how can they farm their nirv matts for gears? you are happy as long as you get to farm the nirv matts and get to sell them at high prices? try playing along with them as the matts are accessable to everyone ... dont try to play against them ... pwi was not a custom made for you alone....how many times have you even considered a non aps high refine +10 squad to do nirv with? where should the other classes go? i think with the new reward system the game has become balanced on how the nirv matts are available to all classes

Mosz - Heavens Tear

you do realize there was caster nirvana

you do realize caster nirvana was [for most] the easiest money for casters

you do realize some 5.0s can just go solo other instances to make up the coin while a caster..uh...yah

Saethos - Raging Tide

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you do realize there was caster nirvana

you do realize caster nirvana was [for most] the easiest money for casters

you do realize some 5.0s can just go solo other instances to make up the coin while a caster..uh...yah

You do realize APS gear is basically a oneshot to a ton of people, and a 2 shot to others

You do realize that the people doing a lot of oneshotting will be casters

You do realize your points and thus rewards in NW goes up as you kill more

You do realize this means aps won't own the market, just a different aspect

Vancore - Sanctuary

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

You do realize APS gear is basically a oneshot to a ton of people, and a 2 shot to others

You do realize that the people doing a lot of oneshotting will be casters

You do realize your points and thus rewards in NW goes up as you kill more

You do realize this means aps won't own the market, just a different aspect

solution: dont use aps gear in pvp, with NW rewards you make a full set of G16 armor for pvp and not as easy

winrocks

this the recipe of 1suply token+10k = 1rap i read from pwdatabase.com
PWI ver http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/recipe/6020
China ver http://www.pwdatabase.com/cn/recipe/6020
On the china version, that recipe is marked as GM Fiture,..
thats also same with the other recipe at north's forges.
Its look like gm somehow make a failure by put a gm testing fiture, accesible by public!.
there also other recipe that requir 60tokens+1mill for 1rap, i think this one is the real recipe.

Saethos - Raging Tide

Vancore - Sanctuary wrote: »

solution: dont use aps gear in pvp, with NW rewards you make a full set of G16 armor for pvp and not as easy

Let's be honest, how many good DPH sins actually exist? And BMs aren't too hard either if you know what you're doing...

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

winrocks wrote: »

this the recipe of 1suply token+10k = 1rap i read from pwdatabase.com
PWI ver http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/recipe/6020
China ver http://www.pwdatabase.com/cn/recipe/6020
On the china version, that recipe is marked as GM Fiture,..
thats also same with the other recipe at north's forges.
Its look like gm somehow make a failure by put a gm testing fiture, accesible by public!.
there also other recipe that requir 60tokens+1mill for 1rap, i think this one is the real recipe.

That's not really surprising. When something is marked with "GM" it is hidden from the in-game encyclopedia. They do this with other things they want to keep hidden such as the PWIC weapons: http://www.pwdatabase.com/cn/quest/24947

Bubbles - Morai

winrocks wrote: »

this the recipe of 1suply token+10k = 1rap i read from pwdatabase.com
PWI ver http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/recipe/6020
China ver http://www.pwdatabase.com/cn/recipe/6020
On the china version, that recipe is marked as GM Fiture,..
thats also same with the other recipe at north's forges.
Its look like gm somehow make a failure by put a gm testing fiture, accesible by public!.
there also other recipe that requir 60tokens+1mill for 1rap, i think this one is the real recipe.

Normally stuff that is labeled as GM or not used is carried to our version and left as GM or N/A

Considering the name of the recipe has been altered, either someone wasn't paying attention or I guess wanmei wanted us to have this forge for whatever reason.

Wanmei changed how they would give us the forges.
On pwcn, there are three forges.
The normal one we have, this one, and this one.

We of course don't have the other two since they are r9 related...

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Bubbles - Lothranis wrote: »

Normally stuff that is labeled as GM or not used is carried to our version and left as GM or N/A

Considering the name of the recipe has been altered, either someone wasn't paying attention or I guess wanmei wanted us to have this forge for whatever reason.

Wanmei changed how they would give us the forges.
On pwcn, there are three forges.
The normal one we have, this one, and this one.

We of course don't have the other two since they are r9 related...

Actually neither of our forges are used in pwcn, they were made specifically for us.

PWCN
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36578
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36682
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36687

PWI
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36991
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36992

Vancore - Sanctuary

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

Let's be honest, how many good DPH sins actually exist? And BMs aren't too hard either if you know what you're doing...

you said you dont want to be 1 hit i said how not to be 1 hit, killing ppl is something else entirely, bms where meant to be a pvp support class and if you only use fist/axes your not going to kill anyone anyway. if you use all weps and 3rd cast them all and use skills then you may have chance in pvp

Jacerai - Dreamweaver

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually neither of our forges are used in pwcn, they were made specifically for us.

PWCN
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36578
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36682
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36687

PWI
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36991
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36992

That's actually really interesting. b:surprised

*might be a stupid question but* Why would they tailor forges to our version?

Praxalis - Archosaur

Its one of two things...

ea) because PWCN UNDERSTANDS that our version has a different economy (therefore they can't ignore us when we say our economy is different when its already pre-acknowledged) and as such gives us a different prescription or

b) the devs designed forges made for our version with the permission of PWCN

REGARDLESS this proves that they can make different content based on the different versions so they have NO excuse to NOT make changes specific for us (say, change recipes in forges to be higher or make mats untradeable to fix the market)

They can't use the "PWCN won't let us" excuse much longer if they keep doing stuff like this IJS

Bubbles - Morai

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually neither of our forges are used in pwcn, they were made specifically for us.

PWCN
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36578
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36682
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36687

PWI
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36991
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36992

Ah, I assumed too much.

Maybe the "gm" forge is intentional after all.
It's not common for wanmei to rename a GM or N/A recipe into something usable for us.
And looking at the ids... yeah.

FayHumming - Dreamweaver

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually neither of our forges are used in pwcn, they were made specifically for us.

PWCN
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36578
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36682
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36687

PWI
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36991
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/npc/36992

b:chuckle GM forges is test version(all short of testing) and non-GM is finally version of release. Also,Current our R9 was beta test and was not even finally version.

condo2009

Praxalis - Archosaur wrote: »

Its one of two things...

ea) because PWCN UNDERSTANDS that our version has a different economy (therefore they can't ignore us when we say our economy is different when its already pre-acknowledged) and as such gives us a different prescription or

b) the devs designed forges made for our version with the permission of PWCN

REGARDLESS this proves that they can make different content based on the different versions so they have NO excuse to NOT make changes specific for us (say, change recipes in forges to be higher or make mats untradeable to fix the market)

They can't use the "PWCN won't let us" excuse much longer if they keep doing stuff like this IJS

if the devs would understand we have a different economy, they'd of never released this update.

Burnout - Harshlands

condo2009 wrote: »

if the devs would understand we have a different economy, they'd of never released this update.

Seriously, why do ppl farm nirvana? To make nirvana gears. You're upset that they're basically giving you free cannies now? Average NW makes you 25m+ for pvp'ing.

This is the best thing to happen to pwi in awhile.

Saethos - Raging Tide

Vancore - Sanctuary wrote: »

you said you dont want to be 1 hit i said how not to be 1 hit, killing ppl is something else entirely, bms where meant to be a pvp support class and if you only use fist/axes your not going to kill anyone anyway. if you use all weps and 3rd cast them all and use skills then you may have chance in pvp

What is this I don't even...

I'm a BM so I'm an axe/fist only noobits, right? b:chuckle

With 14k HP, 15k M.Def in marrow, and 17k P.Def in marrow, I get oneshot. All the time. Most of my points are in str, I barely have any dex (can't even equip claws) and my gear set bonus reduces all magic damage taken by 15%. You can oneshot BMs still. Maybe you're doing it wrong?

Kinjeto - Raging Tide

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh my did I see cannies way under 100k in most cases?
This could kill the economy for PvE players..... b:surrender

Well thats' progress. At least the prices won't be idiotic or stupid like they have been in other versions of the same horrific experience. b:laugh

f31

is so happy the aps and caster nooblets give up the cannie and rapture market to everyone.


hip hip for all hipp hipp for all


no more reroll 5aps to make coin wow so happy.


if i as str g16 +10 barb cant make coin why should a 5k puny sin or a 7k hp puny cheap bm make coin.


ooh and caster sorry but barb did not get much at all we hade to beg from the aps comunity to tag along wish is not FAIR so lets kill nv market.


viva los barbs b:laugh

Geckofreak - Sanctuary

I keep having to search hard to find this thread.

Therefore, Bump
b:laugh

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Gonna bump this for the new NW forum.

ovenusarmanio

Man, I should've stickied this long ago. Rectifying that now.

Diazex - Heavens Tear

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

BerserkBeast - You are negating some facts.

Current fast vana squads on our server, +10~+12, 5 aps, demon hf, demon/sage amp. You can drop a few with lower refines, or non demon hf, or non sage/demon amp, but point remains, good squads already have 2~6 OP people in them doing the work. Last night i did 99 keys with a friend. We had 2 BM (g16+10, deicide+6), 1 sin (g13+5), 1 veno (r8+5), 1 wizzy (r8+7), friend kept on bringing different alts, psy, barb, archer, bm, sin (some characters had +10 weapons others had +2). We finished the run in 5~10 minutes each. The issue people keep on crying about vana that i always fail to understand is not aps. It's about working together, using the class debuffs, timings your skills. To give you an idea of the speed, first boss always died before first seal on all 10 runs.

Vana has never been a farming instance for me. Vana was a place where i spent money to acquire gear, i never made money from it. I made probably 5~7 armour pieces, that is 1250 canny~1 750 canny, made 4 g15 weapons that is 1k raps. Had I "Farmed" vana i would never have acquired my gear in less than a year's time. Sure for a casual player vana is fun, easy, quick money, but it is never a money making instance, nirvana on a net will break even, make slightly more or have a loss for most players.

Getting back to the main point. You can get orbs 1~5 in the NW now, +5 refine is super easy now (depending on the tokens we get). The thing that you are negating, NW starts from 60+. If people don't go the hyper FCC baby route until 85~90. That will give them 2~5 months to farm the NW for all their gear that they will get when 101 and have it refined it at +5 (depending on token payout).

Your "average" player already goes around in 3~7 refine, is raising the lower bar to +5 really such a bad thing?

Someone who has 0 coins can take part in the NW and they can acquire the same endgame that other people have, refine it +5. At that point, they can take part in any instance they want and have fun.

You are also negating another fact, that makes my arguments useless for most people, "friends". I play this game with friends, regardless of their gear. Some friends have +11~+12 weapons, others have +2, 2 aps. We still do lunar, warsong, vana, aba, seat, delta together, because we have fun together. If a person has 0 friends like that while they have played PWI, that is a sad life in a MMO. This game is not about "Look at me i got 6 alts, i can solo everything, i don't need friends, faction", that is what a single player game is, this is not a single player game. You can play it like one, but have to accept the consequences to. If you do make friends, go out and have fun with them. We just learnt that we don't need a barb (other than buffs, but my lvl 71 does the job) for any pulling in any instance. Because none of our friends have a good OP barb due to gear issues or know how to play one b:chuckle. We have fun playing with our "flex squad" makeup, everyone gets a chance to do their bh on which ever character they want and we have fun doing it. Sure we get killed at time, we get squad wipes, but at the end of the day, we all have fun, we enjoy pwi, regardless of class, gear, refine levels. This update will only improve make players stronger so they die less and feel they contribute more.

Yes, some markets will crash, but that is because players like you that Asterelle probably didn't mention, only live in two, three instances in this game. FCC, TT and Vana. If the vana market crashes with this update, it will force people to finally start doing other instances or quit the game. This game has so many fun instances to farm to do, people don't do them, because they can simply charge/acquire money and buy things over time. Once they reach a comfortable stage, the complaining begins. My aim is to +12 all my gear and have the best g16 gear combo possible, i am working towards that. Most people now will have to make the choice, are they happy with their +10 gear, or do they want to go and explore new things.

Personally the PVE gear boost is immense. I am sad about not getting -int on r9 new chest, but now i can get -int on my boots and chest for my r8. Trials may be dead in your eyes, but trials is a fun thing to do as a faction. I used the word fun b:shocked. Now you have two free sources to get your trial mats, and if you reach 2nd set of trials, basically you can recast your gear 1~8 times a week (depending on those blasted tokens). To me that is an immense increase in the odds of getting -int. Most of us have played this game for a year or more. 52 rerolls on a chest, bound to get it sometime right? And maybe with luck on shoes to.

At present there are 2 options. 1) Vana market does not crash (due to mess up with tokens payed out) and the game goes on as before. 2) Vana market crashes, and forces the vana goers to re-evaluate why they play this game.

If it is the first case, let me tell you that the number of OP farmers will increase dramatically. You will see lots of R9 3rd cast +12 people around in your regular tw. If it is the 2nd case, there will be lots of farmers with many different builds compared to previously.

If the player is lazy and does not know how to farm all instances in this game, they will loose out big time, that is what it comes down to for me. I am sorry if this update causes you to quit the game, but do look at the possibilities this will bring to your game play. Finally you can play what ever class you want, have the gear you want, and not have to roll, gear, refine an APS toon to do it. Isn't that worth the cost if vana market crashes?

Note: Above post is optimistic in nature, after NW my opinion might change and be like BerserkBeast b:cute.




Quick change Asterelle, you have G16 PQ2 Ring, it is a PQ 3 ring. For those interested, the refine rate on the new r9 ring is the same as g16 pq 3 rings on the chinese versions, so i guess ours is similar.

1. What server are u on?
2. FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS US NOT-SO-GOOD GEARED PLAYERS!!!!!

SnowTempests - Raging Tide

I don't really mind the huge decrease in raptures and cannies, I think it's great. People can finally afford the gears they want and it's easier to get summerwind tokens. Even though the value of supply tokens have gone down dramatically, I can still see potential in allowing endgame gears more accessible for people.

I can see why some people would have a problem with this because they probably invested so much money on their nirvy farming characters that now they become useless. But the truth is raptures and cannies are not the main source of the economy, furthermore, before NW was introduced, I remember only a few people were able to even farm NW (the incomplete logic was that you needed Nirvy weapons to farm Nirvy, does that make sense?). Therefore, the release of NW really gave other people hope that they don't have to buy from Nirvy farmers and they can earn enough raptures and cannies before lvl 100.

I know some people that quit because of NW as well, because the value of their gears went down and yes I had a T2 GoF dagger on my sin that time when they introduced NW. I sold the daggers almost 1/3 of the value it used to be. I think this is probably the issue people have to cope with.