g16 and r9

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  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »
    It`s funny but the -int set, with similar coin costs will have more effective health than the average R9+10 JoSD set.

    When was the last time you got together with your opponents before a tw or even pk to compare and make sure everyone got the same coins invested in gear? Better yet... when is the last time you saw someone with +12 tt99 shoes/boots with vit shards? With twin +12 lunar rings?

    Your build is just not viable... and probably even down right stupid. Anyone who can remotely afford to +12 a whopping ELEVEN pieces of gear is GOING to be r9.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • HideYoHubby - Archosaur
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    When was the last time you got together with your opponents before a tw or even pk to compare and make sure everyone got the same coins invested in gear? Better yet... when is the last time you saw someone with +12 tt99 shoes/boots with vit shards? With twin +12 lunar rings?

    Your build is just not viable... and probably even down right stupid. Anyone who can remotely afford to +12 a whopping ELEVEN pieces of gear is GOING to be r9.

    And my point has been, trough this convo how the set is good stepping stone as A) It wont go into waste due sin still using it after being upgraded B) It actually helps my income by giving more farm options/lesseging charm ticks/hp pots, etc. c) it`s really coin efficient set.

    And when you ask how many +12 -int sets I`ve seen? Actually one, with similar situation to mine, had sin and made archer as he had LA armors set already. He does complain how wish he could upgrade the gear after that point but with him being so inactive + investment needed to upgrade to R9 piece that actually gives edge - he`s been "stuck" with his set.

    Let me ask you, how Many R9+10 all around full JoSD you have seen? Better, how many R9s that arent? All those who are working on better gear would have better defenses if they had simply went upgraded to/their nirvana set. The amount of R9s that are actually truly endgame is quite minor accounting all the R9s and just because you judging by your opinion can afford it, vast majority cant. What is truly stupid is going for R9 when you cant truly afford it.

    Ps. If it`s not clear, I have no intention of +12ing my -int set but it was pretty great example of just how "just go R9" is actually quite poor advice most of the time.
    __Sami__ - Archer - 105/103/102 - mypers.pw/1.8/#132088 - Active
    HideYoHubby - Assassin - 105/101/101 - Inactive
    WnbTank - Barbarian - 103/101/101 - Catshop
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »
    And when you ask how many +12 -int sets I`ve seen? Actually one

    So... you seen 1 +12 -int set. Now does he have 11 pieces of +12 gear?

    HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »
    Let me ask you, how Many R9+10 all around full JoSD you have seen? Better, how many R9s that arent?

    I put vit stones in my build... not jades. There are plenty of +10 r9 vits/hp arounds... even a few +12 jades. Pretty sure my build is more viable... and more applicable then yours. And guess what... it actually exsists in the wild.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Do you people really think having a sin to farm with justifies having highly refined -int gear on endgame archers? I mean if that's what you want then go for it...like suppose you also PK on your sin and is determined to use a -int sin sure whatever.

    There are plenty of people with endgame R9 on archers and have a -int sin, the sin is using old gear that the archer used. Past a certain level of hp and damage, further refining a -int set for your farm char is just redundant. There are people with R9 on multiple characters and have a -int sin for farm, I don't really understand what having a sin class has to do with all this. The point is that if you are farming and have the time to be farming 11 pieces of +12, there shouldn't be a budget. This is a long-term game and money should be flowing in while you are gearing up, thus it does not make sense to set a limit and try to make up the best gear under that limit. R9, R9 recast, R9 2nd cast should all be in your sights as you farm and farm in this game because you can afford 11 +12 pieces of whatever the **** ever.

    If you are straight cash shopping, don't have enough money but don't care to make money ingame, then be happy with your +12 -int set.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Both of you completely miss the point, I have no intention of +12ing my set. I only used math to provide how far -int set can go for till it gets overpowered by R9, obviously when we talk to +10 refines, the cost effiency is distinctly better than at +12.

    When I still have months before me till I have any intention of bringing my archer to my main faction, I really am not stressed in getting R9 asap. For purposes of mostly alt TWs, I find the refined -int set OP, which I find less desirable than you might think. I do want to learn to play the class and the less OP gear I`m rolling in, the easier learning is.

    But as this keeps my sin my main TW for a good while, refining -int set is quite desirable and if I can keep myself focused on hitting 105 on sin (~summer/fall if I dont give up), sin becomes highly desired for cata squad to keep clerics safe from 105- sins, when there is maybe 5 active 105 sins left on server.

    Funny how I as a sidenote mention using sins armor on archer, I get argued how the -int set fails because of defenses, proving with math how it`s comparable to R9 defenses wise till R9+10 JoSD, using the same amount of coin to the gear. The math was done only, mind you, to show cost effiency of the set and +12ing set is called redundant. But I suppose concept of performance/cost doesnt exist here. Everybody with lesser R9 gear than +10 JoSD would of been better off going N3 for the time being.
    Trolling Sid since So Hot :o
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »
    Both of you completely miss the point, I have no intention of +12ing my set. I only used math to provide how far -int set can go for till it gets overpowered by R9, obviously when we talk to +10 refines, the cost effiency is distinctly better than at +12.

    I think the point is that you are trying to pump up an -int set to unrealistic highs just to compare with the run of the mill r9 set.

    WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »
    Funny how I as a sidenote mention using sins armor on archer, I get argued how the -int set fails because of defenses, proving with math how it`s comparable to R9 defenses wise till R9+10 JoSD, using the same amount of coin to the gear. The math was done only, mind you, to show cost effiency of the set and +12ing set is called redundant. But I suppose concept of performance/cost doesnt exist here. Everybody with lesser R9 gear than +10 JoSD would of been better off going N3 for the time being.

    Just cause you spend the same amount of coins on something... doesn't mean its viable. If whatever you are proposing is too idiotic to be implemented by even the stupidest cash shoppers... does it really matter if it can challenge or even beat an r9 set? And I am pretty sure your 11 piece of +12 gear will cost more then a +10 r9/g16 hat/cape set.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Sint - Harshlands
    Sint - Harshlands Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    He's right on the prices,(given r9 = NV3 +10, +12 w/ vit is roughly comparable to +10 w/ jade.) so what you're discussing is pretty much playstyle. If he feels like it's worth his time to fully +12 the aps gear on his sin, he should definitely go for it, and he'd get a decent (given the gear is free) archer in the process. If, however, he plans to make his archer his main, going with rank 9 at once would likely do him more good, since he won't be spending the money to refine and upgrade parts of a set he'll never use once he does get r9.

    If you plan to go r9 at some point, i'd start by getting the bow, the belt and the chest, since you don't have a good substitute for those, and work with the interval set for the rest. You'd get, if i recall correctly, the def lvl and crit bonus, which is quite nice.

    As said before, costwise, it is comparable, but in terms of use, it's not, unless you already know you will never take your archer past that point.

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