g16 and r9
was just wondering for an archer, which would be better for pvp and/or pve? g16 or r9? for the cost of the r9 you could probably make a decent g16 set (with refines) so I'm still wondering why people would take r9 over it ( other than purge on the bow )
Post edited by abcssdaa on
0
Comments
-
R9 always has 4 sockets. If you take into account the cost of 4 sockets on G16, the cost is comparable, I believe.
There is also the issue of -interval, which some archers value, and some do not. We'll just leave it at that.0 -
Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »R9 always has 4 sockets. If you take into account the cost of 4 sockets on G16, the cost is comparable, I believe.
There is also the issue of -interval, which some archers value, and some do not. We'll just leave it at that.
I believe it`s fairly comparable to have G16 set +10 vs clean R9 set - least that is ~ how my server compares, granted I do not expect anybody to 4 sock their set, that would be just dumb. R9 is bit better I think, due sockets and -int but it`s not really justified in costs if one has trouble affording it, G16+10 set > clean R9 set. I`d say it depends, if you can afford R9 set in reasonable amount of time, go for it, if not, G16 really isnt far behind, I`d call only real difference the lack of purge addon.
Ps. 9/10 times R9 is bit better but I dont think it`s a difference one should pay for if one cant refine/shard the set quite quickly. Seen too many archers with R9 bow +10 and armors +5 with immaculate citrines <.<.Trolling Sid since So Hot
0 -
WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »Seen too many archers with R9 bow +10 and armors +5 with immaculate citrines <.<.
I'm at +6 with Flawless Citrines
0 -
I'm +10 bow + 6 armor with immacs! Does this make me pro b:chuckle0
-
R9 bow +12
Almost all other gear +10
Ring and cape +3
Full DoT shards.
I fail.Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
R9
+12 bow
+11 armors
+10 ornaments/rings (well, ring....can't refine the r9 one
)
And **** shards...like DoTs or something
Anyway I went r9 for the attack levels.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Anatidaephobia - The Fear That You are Being Watched by a Duck0 -
R9 is nice.
+5 weapon
+3 armor
+1 ornaments
oh and shabby turquoise shards in everything.0 -
-
-
T3+10 bow
T3+10 hat, +7 boots,
Various T2 +7-8 on other pieces (2 of each set)
Cube neck (Phys) +8
Not even completed T3 set, and I feel more than comparable to R9 +5 set and +10 bow
The T3 vana pieces have higher base pdef and resistances, higher refine rate, but fewer attack and defense levels
No purge either, but overall, I figure it balances out quite nicelyCurrent Gears
pwcalc.com/90f636550cbd5beb0 -
full r9 +10 full josd, g15+10 neck, nirvana hat cape +10 full josd, pan gu tome lunar ring +10
other full r9 +12 archers hits like pussies on me i dont even notice they are really r9+12
0 -
As much as I hate to say it, because I think it's stupidly OPed, the R9 bow is really unrivaled. Sure, g16 nirvana isn't bad by any means, but it is not even close to equitable. b:surrenderProving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
r9+12 (aps build) and r9+12 w/g16 Helm/Cape and G16+12
Both unsharded. Am I doing this right?
*Fixed r9. For G16 that is just how the stats came out by default in pwcalc. I did adjust the dex on each piece to a minimum of 19 given that you would at a least try for that much on each piece. I did not adjust the % def resists or anything else at all lol. Put both of these together in like 5 minutes before the Heat game xD.
**Fixed r9 again. Now added the g16 helm/cape to further prove that they are not incomparable.Ring Engraving/Amulet Carving Guide - pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1174451
Retired from PWI.
b:bye0 -
Purge > everything else.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
I
Subtraction.
/blatant sig copy is blatant
105/105/105 obtained! b:cute0 -
Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »
Did the r9 belt rong and also was missin G16 neck. But yea, the stats are quite surprising. All the base numbers on the G16 are higher for almost everything, but mainly cos of the 2nd pdef ring and refineable mdef belt. I guess thats on the basis you get good rolls on the stats though xD
Defensive wise, full G16 with that kinda set up would out survive an r9 archer in TW, but still havent seen any1 with G16 take to such a max lvl. Best ive seen is vit stoned/DOT and +10 armor, no full JOSD yet, lol.
Throw shards in, watever you chose, demon and sage skills in, 1v1 would be hard to tell who would win. Though with maybe a demon quickshot proc and a purge, r9 would take the win, not to mention the interval advantage.G_tar_God ~ 104
Aussie represent for PWI
"Life without music would be a mistake..." [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »
There is so many problems with your build...
1. wtf does g16 build have a g16 neck while r9 only gets the g14 neck.
2. prob should also mention that r9 has a small attack level advantage.
3. also might mention that r9 has a small defense level advantage.
4. r9 also have a -.1 int advantage (without cape).
5. r9 is flexible due to its ability to use g16 hat/cape.
6. can afford a g16 neck/belt but can't afford a sky cover?
Your build shows that g16 out class r9 both in terms of damage, defenses, and hp. I like how you gave all max vit rolls on all g16 armor... BUT even with max vit rolls a proper r9/g16 hybrid will yield more hp. I will give you that g16 has more raw attack power... BUT r9 has the faster attack rate and purge. g16 easily would have the higher passive defense... BUT r9 has guarantee 4 sockets and more defense levels.
all in all... you are basically trying to say that something at the end of its life (g16) is better then something at the beginning of its life (r9). when in reality the two builds are equivalent at best... with possibly a small advantage going to the baby r9.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »
Fixed your R9 for you.
Avg DPS of R9 --> 16246 * 1.33 * 0.87 * 1.98 --> 37220.5
Avg DPS of G16 --> 18410.5 * 1.36 * 0.71 * 1.95 --> 34665.5
Feel free to double-check my numbers, but I am fairly sure they are accurate. I'll give you that G16 nirvana is farmable and that's a game-changing perk for a great deal of people, but purge + superior dps is a no-brainer to me
Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »Fixed your R9 for you.
Avg DPS of R9 --> 16246 * 1.33 * 0.87 * 1.98 --> 37220.5
Avg DPS of G16 --> 18410.5 * 1.36 * 0.71 * 1.95 --> 34665.5
Feel free to double-check my numbers, but I am fairly sure they are accurate. I'll give you that G16 nirvana is farmable and that's a game-changing perk for a great deal of people, but purge + superior dps is a no-brainer to me
Oh sorry, my mistake. And no doubt the r9 bow is quite nice with -int and purge is worth it alone, despite the lesser dph, but I made the calcs hastily just to show that the two sets were comparable (and because no one else had yet made calcs). Which indeed they were quite closer than I thought they would be.
I did not expect g16 to have such high % defenses. I did not expect g16 to have more hp (You can go lower the vit to min and it only loses a couple hundred hp).
And it is possible to play an archer and kill things without purge. I have done it for years.
The two would be quite comparable in a mass pvp setting like TW.Ring Engraving/Amulet Carving Guide - pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1174451
Retired from PWI.
b:bye0 -
G16 supposedly has more hp because the R9 build you linked is using -int cape and g15 helm...if you use G16 helm and cape on the R9 build it ends up with more hp.
In addition, the G16 build has 2 refined rings while the R9 build only has 1 IJS.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »And it is possible to play an archer and kill things without purge. I have done it for years.
Thats like saying that I killed things with arrows and have done it for years. Purge could be useless if we are all fighting r8s... but unfortunately some of us are up against robes with better defenses and well in excess of 15k hp.Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »The two would be quite comparable in a mass pvp setting like TW.
the two might be comparable in 1v1... and g16 could even have the advantage. but in mass pvp... especially tw... there is really no comparison... r9 takes the cake and eats it too.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »Fixed your R9 for you.
Avg DPS of R9 --> 16246 * 1.33 * 0.87 * 1.98 --> 37220.5
Avg DPS of G16 --> 18410.5 * 1.36 * 0.71 * 1.95 --> 34665.5
Feel free to double-check my numbers, but I am fairly sure they are accurate. I'll give you that G16 nirvana is farmable and that's a game-changing perk for a great deal of people, but purge + superior dps is a no-brainer to me
R9 seems better as a set but I have to disagree a bit. The point is how G16 has no -int and it+s the reason why R9 set has more DPS. Point being R9 bow in itself has less DPS, less DPH but a purge. I wouldnt take G16 bow if I went full R9 on archer but as my archer is on same account Ill use my sins armor set and there I really am not willing to pay for purge, when G16 has it`s own pros. I`m just trying to say it`s not as much the bow as its the armors that make the difference.__Sami__ - Archer - 105/103/102 - mypers.pw/1.8/#132088 - Active
HideYoHubby - Assassin - 105/101/101 - Inactive
WnbTank - Barbarian - 103/101/101 - Catshop0 -
HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »I wouldnt take G16 bow if I went full R9 on archer but as my archer is on same account Ill use my sins armor set and there I really am not willing to pay for purge,
Do you are going to be using g16 bow with a sin's aps armor? How many shots are you planning to fire off before you die... or better yet how fast do you run?1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »Do you are going to be using g16 bow with a sin's aps armor? How many shots are you planning to fire off before you die... or better yet how fast do you run?
Not all of us can just throw money and flat out buy R9 - Obviously the armor decision is made based on utilizing existing gear. I feel it was fairly obvious from my text I consider R9 armor superior to G16, let alone earlier stages. Using same gear I can get it finished sooner, after which I can start upgrading archer with R9 set leaving sins armor to sin.__Sami__ - Archer - 105/103/102 - mypers.pw/1.8/#132088 - Active
HideYoHubby - Assassin - 105/101/101 - Inactive
WnbTank - Barbarian - 103/101/101 - Catshop0 -
R9+12
Armors +11-12
Cape Ring -10
A +12 G16 nv bow does more dmg than mine but the bonus stats of R9 are way better than NV. not to mention the debuff.
R9> G16NV
not to mention if you ever decide to go 3rd cast R9 which is WAY OP.0 -
HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »Not all of us can just throw money and flat out buy R9 - Obviously the armor decision is made based on utilizing existing gear. I feel it was fairly obvious from my text I consider R9 armor superior to G16, let alone earlier stages. Using same gear I can get it finished sooner, after which I can start upgrading archer with R9 set leaving sins armor to sin.
There shouldn't be any doubt that full r9 is better then full g16 in terms of tw... anyone who argue otherwise need to have their brain looked at. But what you are suggesting isn't what i would consider to be a viable build for tw. While you might have enough dd to make you useful... you'll be lacking in almost every other aspect. an archer's job in tw is to kill... more importantly live long enough to kill. if you are not getting 1.5-2 kills for every death... you are not pulling your archer weight and should be replaced. if you can't afford r9... i doubt your aps gear is that great... so when switched to archer... you'll be lacking in both defense and hp.. thus making you archer next to useless. a medicore geared sin can be a nuisance in tw... but a medicore geared archer is just dead weight. so in that aspect... a sin might actually be more useful then an archer.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »There shouldn't be any doubt that full r9 is better then full g16 in terms of tw... anyone who argue otherwise need to have their brain looked at. But what you are suggesting isn't what i would consider to be a viable build for tw. While you might have enough dd to make you useful... you'll be lacking in almost every other aspect. an archer's job in tw is to kill... more importantly live long enough to kill. if you are not getting 1.5-2 kills for every death... you are not pulling your archer weight and should be replaced. if you can't afford r9... i doubt your aps gear is that great... so when switched to archer... you'll be lacking in both defense and hp.. thus making you archer next to useless. a medicore geared sin can be a nuisance in tw... but a medicore geared archer is just dead weight. so in that aspect... a sin might actually be more useful then an archer.
Unlike most sins, my sin has never had any intention of going DoTs, maybe rank chest archer cant wear. I have no intention of TWing seriously on Archer till the armors are "done", fully buffed like this, right now the set is +7 partially vit stoned and I do still lack the chest & bow, though I got the molds. Sure it`s not that great and purge kinda kills the defenses, which lack defense levels but I rather use it till I get to point of investing R9 than make another set of "stepping stone" gear to refine/shard.
But what you have no idea of is just how small server Archosaur is, cant wait for eventual merges. There is 3, maybe 4 factions that field 80 in TW on a good day, right now there is 2 factions that can likely field 70+ on any day. Out of those 140 players for 2 biggest factions, maybe 1/2(70 in between 2 factions) are R9 or similarly geared and out of those maybe 1/5(20 between 2 top factions) has armors at +10.
If there is a server that gets rolled hard server vs server PK, it`s Archosaur. Archosaur has full R93rd +12, full R92nd+12 (waiting for new 3rd cast option I believe), some ppl with 3rd cast wep and pieces of 2nd cast. But those are very few and there is no faction on server which wouldnt have least 10% of it`s TWers with R8+5 or lower gear. On archosaur there really isnt middle ground, either you are stupidly OP or seriously undergeared for major TW faction.__Sami__ - Archer - 105/103/102 - mypers.pw/1.8/#132088 - Active
HideYoHubby - Assassin - 105/101/101 - Inactive
WnbTank - Barbarian - 103/101/101 - Catshop0 -
HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »Unlike most sins, my sin has never had any intention of going DoTs, maybe rank chest archer cant wear. I have no intention of TWing seriously on Archer till the armors are "done", fully buffed like this, right now the set is +7 partially vit stoned and I do still lack the chest & bow, though I got the molds. Sure it`s not that great and purge kinda kills the defenses, which lack defense levels but I rather use it till I get to point of investing R9 than make another set of "stepping stone" gear to refine/shard.
I'll admit... that I was slight imporessed by the hp until I realize its buffed. That may be all thats going for you with that build. Attack level aside... you buffed are probably a good 15% away from an unbuffed r9. Buff the r9 and factor in attack levels... you are now 25% raw power below someone who can purge. Mabye it is sucifficent for archo... but this will not hold against archers of HT.HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »But what you have no idea of is just how small server Archosaur is, cant wait for eventual merges. There is 3, maybe 4 factions that field 80 in TW on a good day, right now there is 2 factions that can likely field 70+ on any day. Out of those 140 players for 2 biggest factions, maybe 1/2(70 in between 2 factions) are R9 or similarly geared and out of those maybe 1/5(20 between 2 top factions) has armors at +10.
There is MAYBE... and thats a big MAYBE... 1 guild on HT that can field a full 80... on an EXTREMELY... and thats a big extreme... good day.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
I did the math for the hell of it to compare how each set would be dealing defense wise. So in it`s essence, simply calculating effective health. Using the average full R9 as attacker due the fact it`s most common dangerous enemy to face. So We`ll be hitting sets with 94 attack levels.
-int set:
Effective Health against Physical attacks:
Effective health = HP / (100% - physical damage reduction) / (100% - Physical damage reduced) / ( 1 + ( (attack levels - defense levels) / 100 ) )
= 16749 / ( 1 - 0,74 ) / ( 1 + ( ( 94 - 19 ) / 100 ) ) = 36811
Effective Health against Magicall attacks:
Effective health = HP / (100% - Magical damage reduction) / (100% - Magical damage reduced) / ( 1 + ( (attack levels - defense levels) / 100 ) )
= 16749 / ( 1 - 0,75 ) / ( 1 + ( ( 94 - 19 ) / 100 ) ) = 38283
R9 set
Effective Health against Physical attacks:
= 18359 / ( 1 - 0,73 ) / ( 1 + ( ( 94 - 44 ) / 100 ) ) = 45331
Effective Health against Magicall attacks:
= 18359 / ( 1 - 0,73 ) / ( 1 + ( ( 94 - 44 ) / 100 ) ) = 47074
R9 w/o buffs:
Effective Health against Physical attacks:
= 14279 / ( 1 - 0,60 ) / ( 1 + ( ( 94 - 44 ) / 100 ) ) = 23798
Effective Health against Magicall attacks:
= 14279 / ( 1 - 065 ) / ( 1 + ( ( 94 - 44 ) / 100 ) ) = 27198
To make some summaries bout the numbers, R9 has ( 46202,5 - 37547 ) / 37547 * 100% = 23,1% higher effective health when I took average of both effective healths to cut down number of equations.
-int set on other hand got ( 37547 - 25498 ) / 25498 *100 = 47,3% higher effective health than unbuffed R9.
Ps. I for one was surprisedin both how close -int set got to R9 and just how ridiculous difference buffs make.__Sami__ - Archer - 105/103/102 - mypers.pw/1.8/#132088 - Active
HideYoHubby - Assassin - 105/101/101 - Inactive
WnbTank - Barbarian - 103/101/101 - Catshop0 -
HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »I did the math for the hell of it to compare how each set would be dealing defense wise. So in it`s essence, simply calculating effective health. Using the average full R9 as attacker due the fact it`s most common dangerous enemy to face. So We`ll be hitting sets with 94 attack levels.
For god f-ing sake... if you want to build an r9... at least do it right. That is an AVERAGE r9 with vit shards, no engravings http://pwcalc.com/ba3b6e0ccd0e23f51. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »For god f-ing sake... if you want to build an r9... at least do it right. That is an AVERAGE r9 with vit shards
Of course it is to make an unbiased comparison. If Id use vit stones for one set, JoSD for other, the math would have absolutely no value and using JoSD on -int set would be stupid, dont think all of the gear has high enough level to even shard them. Putting costs on table, I am ~1,5b away from finishing the -int set, which is ~the same as getting clean R9 set that would be completely unusable for sin. Adding JoSD sharding and +10 refines, getting to ~5b coins for "doing it right".
To make fair comparison between R9+10 JoSD and -int set, I would of had played too much to determine - Well I would of had to have put -int as partially JoSD on the pieces that can be JoSDd and putting it +12 vs R9+10, which would of caused complaints bout biased estimation, while in fact, -int set would still have some coins "left" compared to R9 cost. All in all, complicated.
But let`s compare best set in game with overkilling stepping stone gear:
-int set +12:
Effective Health against Physical attacks:
Effective health = HP / (100% - physical damage reduction) / (100% - Physical damage reduced) / ( 1 + ( (attack levels - defense levels) / 100 ) )
= 20521 / ( 1 - 0,77 ) / ( 1 + ( ( 94 - 43 ) / 100 ) ) = 59481
Effective Health against Magicall attacks:
Effective health = HP / (100% - Magical damage reduction) / (100% - Magical damage reduced) / ( 1 + ( (attack levels - defense levels) / 100 ) )
= 20521 / ( 1 - 0,77 ) / ( 1 + ( ( 94 - 43 ) / 100 ) ) = 59481
R9 set
Actually funny enough, attack and defense levels match, dropping them from the equation.
Effective Health against Physical attacks:
= 16269 / ( 1 - 0,72 ) = 58103
Effective Health against Magicall attacks:
= 16269 / ( 1 - 0,71 ) = 56100
It`s funny but the -int set, with similar coin costs will have more effective health than the average R9+10 JoSD set. I`m not arguing that R9 isnt best set in game, well recasts of it actually but what you fail to realize is how it`s not the set to go for coin efficiency. And yes, you really can +12 set orns included and still stay ~the same coin value as R9+10 JoSD.
As long as we stay in gear under 5,5b, -int set really isnt that bad of an option as you can refine it that much higher than R9. After maxing -int at ~5,5m point though, any extra funds tip the scales towards R9 set.
Ps. Used the sky cover instead of lunar ring, shoulda done the same for -int set but realized it after math was done for it and couldnt bother. And I fail to realize point of engravings, most simply roll for dex, which plays no role in effective health equation and with wast variety of defensive options picking one arbitrary would of only made math less objective.
Edit: Yes, Hide is kitty`s farming sin.Trolling Sid since So Hot0
Categories
- All Categories
- 181.9K PWI
- 699 Official Announcements
- 2 Rules of Conduct
- 264 Cabbage Patch Notes
- 61K General Discussion
- 1.5K Quality Corner
- 11.1K Suggestion Box
- 77.4K Archosaur City
- 3.5K Cash Shop Huddle
- 14.3K Server Symposium
- 18.1K Dungeons & Tactics
- 2K The Crafting Nook
- 4.9K Guild Banter
- 6.6K The Trading Post
- 28K Class Discussion
- 1.9K Arigora Colosseum
- 78 TW & Cross Server Battles
- 337 Nation Wars
- 8.2K Off-Topic Discussion
- 3.7K The Fanatics Forum
- 207 Screenshots and Videos
- 22.8K Support Desk