Not your average sage vs demon

Sint - Harshlands

KawaiiJen wrote: »

Stormrage USED to say Defense reduction 20% for Sage before I found out it didn't and reported it and they updated the tooltip as well as a few other sage skills I had to have them update.

20% def reduction? You went sage so you could cast a 10% dmg amp for 2 sparks?

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You know what is a good crit buff that both cultivations have access to now? Galvanic Aura. /critargument.

1 spark for a crit buff nobody is going to stand around to tank. Good thinking brah.

@Sint: Sages don't need CE to BoA quite often in TW. Most will get Master Li's on an internal timer to cast in between combat so that you are nearly always at full chi. Then there is awaken. And apoth. And of course there is also CE if you chose to have it.

Assuming you use less than 50 chi per minute, and don't run into any overzealous demon players.

And also, once again. The best thing about being sage is the long stun (extra 1.5 secs does help) and of course master li's.

Btw, nobody has yet mentioned demon wingspan. i really like demon wingspan. And demon shell. And demon KBA. And, dare i say it, demon WoP. And demon LS. Demon TS, too, when it procs. I also like how demon AL procs more often and won't let you pot when it does.

kawaiijen

Sint - Harshlands wrote: »

20% def reduction? You went sage so you could cast a 10% dmg amp for 2 sparks?



Btw, nobody has yet mentioned demon wingspan. i really like demon wingspan. And demon shell. And demon KBA. And, dare i say it, demon WoP. And demon LS. Demon TS, too, when it procs. I also like how demon AL procs more often and won't let you pot when it does.

No I personally didn't. I was just stating a fact about the incorrect tooltip given for that skill. If you read my earlier post I stated exactly why I went sage.

Sage wingspan USED to give us a full spark. Nerfed to 50 chi but still can be useful as well. Shell should never be used unless you have nothing else to escape from a high DPH hit. WoP isn't that big of a deal tbh. No comment on the procs about KBA LS or TS. Fyi Aimlow procs the same for sage as it does for Demon at 25% and most of the time a waste of a spark except maybe 1v1s if you have the extra chi for it.

Sint - Harshlands

KawaiiJen wrote: »

No I personally didn't. I was just stating a fact about the incorrect tooltip given for that skill. If you read my earlier post I stated exactly why I went sage.

Sage wingspan USED to give us a full spark. Nerfed to 50 chi but still can be useful as well. Shell should never be used unless you have nothing else to escape from a high DPH hit. WoP isn't that big of a deal tbh. No comment on the procs about KBA LS or TS. Fyi Aimlow procs the same for sage as it does for Demon at 25% and most of the time a waste of a spark except maybe 1v1s if you have the extra chi for it.

It may be because i'm a tad squishier than you are, but i can think of several reasons i like shell lasting longer, i also think that, if you find shell useful only for avoiding a high dph hit, you need to pvp more.

As for both ALs procing equally often, when last i checked, the skill descriptions said otherwise, though i'm not about to go test it. For the potential uses of AL, i can, once again, think of several more than the one you listed.

Sage wingspan, and i'm once more relying on my correct recollection of the skill description, is an 8% proc, for every target you hit. Unless you routinely get jumped by far more people than i do (and all of them have gear terrible enough for you to survive it), saying it's useful is like saying TS proc is useful. It's nice when it happens, but i don't cast TS for it.

i didn't claim WoP was a big deal, which is why, in my text, it's preceded by "dare i say it"

KawaiiJen wrote: »

I picked sage not because as blood rain said and probably some do. But because I liked how the sage skill tree fit my play style for TW back in the day and it still does. I was constantly needing chi so Li's Tech was a nice little buff to go with the chi apoth which allowed me to spam a BoA every 2mins easily. I enjoyed the longer stun time I got as well as the slight range advantage on every other class. Yes it's not that big of a deal but I personally felt I was able to get the first shot off from kiting the demon archer and being able to cast first. Sage quickshot for the extra crit will definitely be a nice little extra boost to the sage arsenal. The difference between the 2 culti's makes only little difference and until you have endgame gear do you notice sage to have a slightly higher damage output, though it's not as much as people think. (You can easily see for yourself in the pwcalc).

^ This

You picked sage in april/may 2010, i believe, meaning there were already genies to get chi from, and therefore you could, like me, cast BoA every 2 minutes easily without Li's, and endgame gear wasn't quite good enough to make sage dmg advantage droolworthy (and it still isn't), longer stun time is nice though. Range... it's good for fighting bad archers, i guess.

kawaiijen

Sint - Harshlands wrote: »

It may be because i'm a tad squishier than you are, but i can think of several reasons i like shell lasting longer, i also think that, if you find shell useful only for avoiding a high dph hit, you need to pvp more.

As for both ALs procing equally often, when last i checked, the skill descriptions said otherwise, though i'm not about to go test it. For the potential uses of AL, i can, once again, think of several more than the one you listed.

Sage wingspan, and i'm once more relying on my correct recollection of the skill description, is an 8% proc, for every target you hit. Unless you routinely get jumped by far more people than i do (and all of them have gear terrible enough for you to survive it), saying it's useful is like saying TS proc is useful. It's nice when it happens, but i don't cast TS for it.

i didn't claim WoP was a big deal, which is why, in my text, it's preceded by "dare i say it"

I PvP quite frequently on my server and I never can find a valid use to waste chi for that skill.

For AL it is the same.

Sage wingspan felt like 40% and I used it on mobs nearby or on the cata/bindpost for a free spark quite frequently. It's only 50 chi so I almost never use it anymore unless it's a 1v1 and the archer is running away to try and kite me.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Sint - Harshlands wrote: »

Red comments to my quote

The skill lasts for 30 seconds with 5-9 hits...Do I even need to explain how reasonable finding a target within 30 seconds is when you out distance every other class in range? Sage literally has so much chi that I may as well use a lot of it.

Perhaps it is a playstyle thing, but I do not just rush or suicide into mass groups of enemies. I move about the battlefield (usually TW or ToB) and attack from flanks and the air quite often. Extra range from Galvanic helps quite a lot on that and it isn't really a waste of chi since you are nearly at full anyways.

On Wingspan: It was kind of god tier in PvE before the nerf. It said 20% and gave 108 chi but felt like much more. Now it rarely procs for me, but then again I don't use it as often, especially in PvP. Maybe as a gut reaction to a sin to tick their Deaden after I cast WoG from AD/Apoth, but that is it. Against sins one should rely on your squad members to have your back if you are unable to take them yourself.

On Winged Shell: It is a rare use move for me as well. I had it incorporated a lot more when my gear was lesser, but now I seem to be able to just charm tank most threats before I can react with a genie/apoth. I may use it still as a save against a Wiz ulti, but generally I would rather use leaps or Alacrity to escape the AoE instead. It is more useful with lesser gear though I do admit.

On Aim Low: I generally cast it if a high priority target is being tanky with apo and trying to flee (ex: r9 wizard). This puts them safely out of range if it procs. Gives me time to debuff them with BV if necessary and allows time for faction mates to assist with their takedown. Great for targets that survive BoA or to halt a r9 Cleric in their tracks. Then again, I have been told I cast Aim Low more often than most archers.

On metal skills: I use them quite frequently now since my gear has been upgraded more for defenses and less for aps. I went from .91 to .80 with my change to g15. TS/LS is still the biggest nuke hit we have and a crit from that will often bypass a charm if TS did not tick it. IF TS did tick I would say try TS-->1-2 autos-->LS and hope for a crit. My passive crit rate is almost 40% unbuffed (3 dex off) and will only improve with more gear upgrades. With Galvanic it becomes 65%. Not unreasonable to think a crit will happen. Sages never really had the dps options of demon spark or QS. So we made use of our metal skills.

On fighting other archers: Usually you can just stun them out of range while they combat another person and take them out. Galvanic is helpful when you know they are there and they see you as well. From maybe 50-70m out you can cast it and just close distance. If they kite, so be it.. Many archers are r9 on my server, but if you can get that initial stun off you have many options including 3 sparking, Aim Low, BV, Apoth etc. You still have time to run away if necessary.

My job in TW has never really been to take out other archers unless they are currently considered high threat (BoA) or a known target. And once again, attacking from the air is quite reasonable if you are targeting other archers because you gain the element of range and surprise (Many will have to fly to meet me if they do not use Galvanic simply because of the angle of attack; That or they can run into my faction-mates and die lol). Note that my tips should be quite viable for either cultivation and are not failsafe. Your enemy archer can quite easily do this to you as well, but one should try to remain vigilant of threats if you have experience with PWI/That particular opponent/faction.

Sometimes I think people forget PWI is mostly a squad based game when it comes to PvP..

Apologies for long post, I tried to break it up a bit. There was a lot to comment on (everyone be posting while I'm at work rofl).

Sint - Harshlands

i'm not sure how to reply to this, we seem to be talking about vastly different things, and you seem to be under the impression that hitting an r9 archer air to ground matters at all (excluding r9s with +3 armor refines.)

If you're not going to be noticed, you don't need the extra range. The crit buff on galvanic, as far as i'm aware, only works on a number of shots, and this number depends on your soulforce, so it's still a waste of chi.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Sint - Harshlands wrote: »

i'm not sure how to reply to this, we seem to be talking about vastly different things, and you seem to be under the impression that hitting an r9 archer air to ground matters at all (excluding r9s with +3 armor refines.)

If you're not going to be noticed, you don't need the extra range. The crit buff on galvanic, as far as i'm aware, only works on a number of shots, and this number depends on your soulforce, so it's still a waste of chi.

ecatomb wrote:

Skill
Galvanic Aura Level 2
Mana 272
Channel 1.4 seconds
Cast 1.0 seconds
Cooldown 180.0 seconds
Weapon Ranged

Requisite Cultivation Aware of Vacuity
Enhance yourself with an electric current.
Increases attack range by 6 meters and
critical hit chance by 25% between 5 to 9 times,
depending on Soulforce, for the next 30 seconds.

After casting, you will recover 100 Chi over 10 seconds.

Requires 2 Sparks

Ok so, 25% crit for 30 seconds and 5-9 hits is a waste of chi at what essentially amounts to one spark? Sage's other options to enhance crit are base buffs (5%) and if you die, nothing at all (until Dynasty expansion). 1 spark is quite gainable with QS/Stun/LS use alone. You could instant gain 50 chi back too with Master Li and then go find some targets. 30 seconds is quite a while and you can do many things. Ex: 5-9 Barrages. Or 5-9 Metal attacks. +6 range isn't anything to disregard either.

On hitting r9s:

The average archer should be able to get at least 50 attack levels from Frenzy and Jones alone. That + gear + buffs should allow you to do quite a lot of damage on an unjaded archer provided they don't kill you. Point being: r9 aren't invincible.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

On hitting r9s:

The average archer should be able to get at least 50 attack levels from Frenzy and Jones alone. That + gear + buffs should allow you to do quite a lot of damage on an unjaded archer provided they don't kill you. Point being: r9 aren't invincible.

Of course r9 aren't invincible... they die all the time... except their all the time is a lot less then non r9's all the time. Unless you are talking about those rare +12 r8 bow... a 50 attack level archer is NOT going to hurt an r9 armor any... even without jades. With the 100% reduction in gear value... any hit from an r9 bow will mean death.

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

r8+10 bow does ok damage to non josd AA targets and fair damage to LA's. It's not illogical to say that a skilled r8+10 bow archer could take out r9 targets in a group pvp scenario.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »

r8+10 bow does ok damage to non josd AA targets and fair damage to LA's. It's not illogical to say that a skilled r8+10 bow archer could take out r9 targets in a group pvp scenario.

So you are going to need to find a group pvp, then an r9 robe, preferably not even buffed, all the while pray not to be killed when frenzy debuff defense to 0. I notice that you use the plural form of the word target... just how ****ty are the r9s on harshland.


The guy use "unjaded archer" as his example. I am the maybe 3-4 people on HT with a +12 r8 bow... and my r8 armor is dots. With frenzy i can easily surpass 50 attack level... and yet I doubt i'll be able to kill anyone worth while... even in TW.

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

85% of the r9's on harshlands are +7 g8 sharded. r8 bow's can eat through that easily. I have r9+10 w/ a piece that has g11 garnets the rest are g8 cits, and there are only a few people on the server that i can't kill 1v1 let alone group pvp. Harshlands really has 0 competition for any competent player, it's why i rerolled lc and started this thread in the first place lol.

Saethos - Raging Tide

Coming from a BM and having done a fair bit of TW (Note, coming from a BM, I don't know how to play an archer) I've seen quite a few archers raise hell in TW. Maybe it's just coincidence, but when I face even a r9 archer that's demon, all I do is slap on a magic marrow and demon bell, use Blade Hurl at first, close the distance with a speed buff, and unless the following stun purges me, I can continue to close the distance with reckless rush. In the event of an anti stun I can juse use smack just after a charm tick, and essentially, the archer is being tanked...On a r9 archer this is much harder and I have to rely on my genie's high dexterity wind shield, but I can still tank the ever living **** out of a r9 archer unless it's full DoT shards...But this is keeping in mind, my gear is nowhere near complete...Lacking 16 vit stones, only have a t2 cape, still only have a Warsoul helm, M.Def ornies aren't past +5 yet...

But in the offbeat event I've seen a sage archer, such as the t2 Nirv one I met in TW th other day, they seem to raise even more hell. I see my squad mates drop quickly (I'm the leader of the defense squad in my faction, so we typically don't have a cata barb, instead it's a demon r8 str build barb that they always give me) with what seems to be no explanation. Then I see that archer, and find out he's sage. His DPH didn't quite make his DPS higher than demon, I'm sure demon has more DPS, but his DPH was so insane, he completely took out every casters, every sins, and my seekers charms out of the picture by hitting 14k on the 11.5k HP seeker, and the same concept on the casters.

So I guess what I'm saying is that demon is easy to tank as long as they don't get a lucky purge, and in a 1v1, I pretty much last with then until I get purged, and sometimes I can recover if I have my apoth available. a 1v1 sage archer relies a little less on luck (still requiring quite a fair bit).

This is coming from a r8 recast BM (axe only) with 13.5k HP. If i find it easy to tank, I can only imagine how easy it is for a r9 BM to tank, let alone one with complete gear, unlike mine...

Maybe it's just the archers on my server or what, but it's not much of a challenge to occupy them in TW. Still hard to beat in 1v1, but I last a fair bit against demon r9s. I can forget about tanking a sage r9 though...**** that

Vindis - Dreamweaver

My attack is like...11-17k with 59 attack levels full buffed and frenzied. Much more than that 3 sparked. Would be much more if I was better geared as well. Most r9s on my server are +5~7ish and rocking immac cits and still using tt99 ornas and a Lunar cape.

One example of a good time to use frenzy:

Galvanic BoA from 40m while your squads BM or Wiz is dropping an AoE stun. Frenzy BoA on targets attacking your barb or other Melees. Frenzy BoA on a barb that might try to run back to his cleric/other squadmates. 3 spark frenzy while a r9 caster/archer is focused on one of your own r9s that is approaching.

A lot of playing pwi is just knowing your opponents tendencies, the timing on when to do certain things and just using simple bait and lure tactics. It is amazing how many people will fall for simple tricks.

On BMs: I think I have only been killed by one in TW and it was a friend that was determined to get me lol. One should generally kite the hell out of them if you can't kill them and try to stay at max range if possible or near it. Leaps help a lot, especially in the air.

Kiting in general is an archer's specialty. Antistun and run run run lol. Then come back at a different angle and hit hard.

zenmasterzen

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

On BMs: I think I have only been killed by one in TW and it was a friend that was determined to get me lol. One should generally kite the hell out of them if you can't kill them and try to stay at max range if possible or near it. Leaps help a lot, especially in the air..

why bm try to kill in tw??? fail bm 2 chase archer should stay wit team to stun + hf

Sint - Harshlands

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

But in the offbeat event I've seen a sage archer, such as the t2 Nirv one I met in TW th other day, they seem to raise even more hell. I see my squad mates drop quickly (I'm the leader of the defense squad in my faction, so we typically don't have a cata barb, instead it's a demon r8 str build barb that they always give me) with what seems to be no explanation. Then I see that archer, and find out he's sage. His DPH didn't quite make his DPS higher than demon, I'm sure demon has more DPS, but his DPH was so insane, he completely took out every casters, every sins, and my seekers charms out of the picture by hitting 14k on the 11.5k HP seeker, and the same concept on the casters.

So I guess what I'm saying is that demon is easy to tank as long as they don't get a lucky purge, and in a 1v1, I pretty much last with then until I get purged, and sometimes I can recover if I have my apoth available. a 1v1 sage archer relies a little less on luck (still requiring quite a fair bit).

This is coming from a r8 recast BM (axe only) with 13.5k HP. If i find it easy to tank, I can only imagine how easy it is for a r9 BM to tank, let alone one with complete gear, unlike mine...

Maybe it's just the archers on my server or what, but it's not much of a challenge to occupy them in TW. Still hard to beat in 1v1, but I last a fair bit against demon r9s. I can forget about tanking a sage r9 though...**** that

What you're saying makes no sense at all. For a start, when you hit an 11.5k seeker for 14k, you don't just take it's charm out of the picture, you 1shot it. Now, for the numbers, if demon DPS is higher than sage DPS, but sage DPH 1shots your seeker, even if he did so with TS or TA, that would mean a demon archer can kill the same target in, maximum, 5 hits (NS, no crits, assuming TS/TA = 2-3 hits time, and that was a 14k crit). My point here is, if a nirv archer hits your seeker for 14k, there are two options: you either missed him sage sparking, or an equally refined demon r9 can do the same thing. Those are the ONLY options.

Saethos - Raging Tide

Sint - Harshlands wrote: »

What you're saying makes no sense at all. For a start, when you hit an 11.5k seeker for 14k, you don't just take it's charm out of the picture, you 1shot it. Now, for the numbers, if demon DPS is higher than sage DPS, but sage DPH 1shots your seeker, even if he did so with TS or TA, that would mean a demon archer can kill the same target in, maximum, 5 hits (NS, no crits, assuming TS/TA = 2-3 hits time, and that was a 14k crit). My point here is, if a nirv archer hits your seeker for 14k, there are two options: you either missed him sage sparking, or an equally refined demon r9 can do the same thing. Those are the ONLY options.

But seeing one near death can cue the IGs, pots, AD, etc. Besides, this was just one example. Maybe he did sage spark, idk, I never said he didn't. The point being, higher DPH can sometimes be extremely significantly better, even if that metal crit didn't deal 14k, in mid combat, that hit could still bypass a charm. Let's say there was somebody already on the seeker. Just before his charm ticks, all it would take is a more than half HP hit to take the charm out of the picture.

Missing the point. Like a boss.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My attack is like...11-17k with 59 attack levels full buffed and frenzied. Much more than that 3 sparked. Would be much more if I was better geared as well. Most r9s on my server are +5~7ish and rocking immac cits and still using tt99 ornas and a Lunar cape.

LOL... when cross-server tw ever (if) comes out... harsh land and dream is going to get run over... backed up... and run over again... then backed up... and run over again... repeat that a few hundred more times.

As far as HT is considered... there are retired robes in my guild with over 10k hp. I am well north of 500 dex, a full set of r9 attack levels, along with a +12 r9 bow... and I'll have trouble killing them.

BTW. r9 defaults to 29 def levels, so your 59 attack level just got cut down to 30. Even assuming your 17k upper end attack... thats only 5.5k pvp attack... and making yourself a one shot for anything that moves.

Eoria - Harshlands

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

LOL... when cross-server tw ever (if) comes out... harsh land and dream is going to get run over... backed up... and run over again... then backed up... and run over again... repeat that a few hundred more times.

90% of HL is terrible so this is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

Saethos - Raging Tide

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

LOL... when cross-server tw ever (if) comes out... harsh land and dream is going to get run over... backed up... and run over again... then backed up... and run over again... repeat that a few hundred more times.

As far as HT is considered... there are retired robes in my guild with over 10k hp. I am well north of 500 dex, a full set of r9 attack levels, along with a +12 r9 bow... and I'll have trouble killing them.

BTW. r9 defaults to 29 def levels, so your 59 attack level just got cut down to 30. Even assuming your 17k upper end attack... thats only 5.5k pvp attack... and making yourself a one shot for anything that moves.

I'm afraid RT will be the same, BMs PK in only APS gear, sins don't know how to fight without stealth (very few of them are 105), archers and barbs try killing me with fists/claws, Our seekers think themselves invincible and don't work as a team, and our clerics don't typically have refines very high unless they're one of the few r9s we have...

kawaiijen

Let's try to keep this on-topic as much as a disappointment I think I'll be having in Server wars in the future short of fights with LC and Sanc then that can be a discussion in it's own thread if you wish to resume this.

augustfinknottle

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Most r9s on my server are +5~7ish and rocking immac cits and still using tt99 ornas and a Lunar cape.

I'd say most R9s in DW are +10 with cube neck (and R9 belt and ring, with a lunar ring or a r8 as second ring). Some are not highly refined, but I'd think it's not even close to the majority - in fact, of all the r9s I can think out of my mind, I think only one is not +10/+12.

You're right about the immacs, though, which are decent placeholders till one can get G11/G12/G13 shards.
______
On the sage/demon thing, I'd probably try a sage archer in a private server before deciding, so you can add to your experience with demon archers some experience with a sage one before deciding.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

augustfinknottle wrote: »

I'd say most R9s in DW are +10 with cube neck (and R9 belt and ring, with a lunar ring or a r8 as second ring). Some are not highly refined, but I'd think it's not even close to the majority - in fact, of all the r9s I can think out of my mind, I think only one is not +10/+12.

You're right about the immacs, though, which are decent placeholders till one can get G11/G12/G13 shards.
______
On the sage/demon thing, I'd probably try a sage archer in a private server before deciding, so you can add to your experience with demon archers some experience with a sage one before deciding.

A cube neck, g15 hat/cape, and r9 refined at +10 with imacs would be a few hp short of 10k. Cleric buff that and you'll have ~60% p.atk resist. Add a BM buff and the p.atk resist would probably get to ~65%. Throw in a barb buff that the hp would be just short of 13k. That frenzied non-purge r8 bow with 11-17k damage is going to need some serious outside help to score the kill.

Quilue - Sanctuary

KawaiiJen wrote: »

Stormrage USED to say Defense reduction 20% for Sage before I found out it didn't and reported it and they updated the tooltip as well as a few other sage skills I had to have them update. Regarding crit I got 44% crit rate as sage with a base buff. Demon get's upwards MAYBE 50% with stun / sta proc. 6% really isn't a factor. The biggest thing is purge which unless your target is standing there taking a qs proc'd attack from you there's really no difference between the two cultivation's anymore. Not to mention our sage qs will be far superior to your crit rate after the expansion. We also have more range and a longer stun duration on our targets then you.



Stack Pdef and then get 67% Magic damage reduction charms. And if you really feel the need for another magical necklace then get 2 different ones. I've personally never needed one or regretted stacking pdef.

That defense reduction is **** anyways though. For a little test, I kept Eruption Fist and used it in conjunction with metal debuff for a supposed 80% metal reduction. The difference was like 3k in metal def on unbuffed robes as opposed to just having metal debuff, and the difference in damage was totally stupid. I would rather 2 spark than use Sage Stormrage even if the description was right.

kawaiijen

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

That defense reduction is **** anyways though. For a little test, I kept Eruption Fist and used it in conjunction with metal debuff for a supposed 80% metal reduction. The difference was like 3k in metal def on unbuffed robes as opposed to just having metal debuff, and the difference in damage was totally stupid. I would rather 2 spark than use Sage Stormrage even if the description was right.

-_- I didn't go sage because of eagleon or use it in PvP (I think you guys are mistaking me for the deadweight who posted they went sage for it). I think I used it on a nirvana boss once to help boost squad damage to stack with a HF and saw it reduced attack instead. This skill is and will never be a viable PvP skill other then to troll with.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

KawaiiJen wrote: »

-_- I didn't go sage because of eagleon or use it in PvP (I think you guys are mistaking me for the deadweight who posted they went sage for it). I think I used it on a nirvana boss once to help boost squad damage to stack with a HF and saw it reduced attack instead. This skill is and will never be a viable PvP skill other then to troll with.

At the rate its going... I bet I can kill r9s on dream/harsh with sage stormrage air to ground... even when they are fully buffed and at max hp.

kawaiijen

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

At the rate its going... I bet I can kill r9s on dream/harsh with sage stormrage air to ground... even when they are fully buffed and at max hp.

You're going to be a VERY busy father then.... b:chuckle

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

Isn't part of group pvp assist attacking your teamates in order to work together with purge/amp/dg/DD so you can take targets down? I mean thats how i play my r8 archer and my r9 mage. I know for a fact that my demon r8+6 archer can shred AA r9+10's in group pvp because i have done it. Most of the time if you just assist attack yoru squadmates you can get a full quickshot proc of damage off. which by itself is normally enough to finish a r9 off after a charm tick.

When your playing as an undergeared player in group pvp, you really have to help your teamates and avoid getting hit at all. demon quickshot+sta/stun arrow gives you that added bonus to dps to take down the r9's. I can see where as a sage archer you can't take down r9 opponents because you dont' have the gear to make sage shine in this same scenario.

Eoria - Harshlands

KawaiiJen wrote: »

Let's try to keep this on-topic as much as a disappointment I think I'll be having in Server wars in the future short of fights with LC and Sanc then that can be a discussion in it's own thread if you wish to resume this.

If I've learned anything from playing on Vendetta for awhile, a lot of people from all servers aren't as pro as they'd like to think they are.

But yes, I do think this conversation would be interesting in it's own thread if someone would like to make it.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »

Isn't part of group pvp assist attacking your teamates in order to work together with purge/amp/dg/DD so you can take targets down? I mean thats how i play my r8 archer and my r9 mage. I know for a fact that my demon r8+6 archer can shred AA r9+10's in group pvp because i have done it. Most of the time if you just assist attack yoru squadmates you can get a full quickshot proc of damage off. which by itself is normally enough to finish a r9 off after a charm tick.

In theory that is true... but what good are you when you are dead. Frenzy is useless if you can't take hits... unless of course you hide at max range and take cheap shots whenever possible. Even then your usefulness is limited. And I am pretty sure my +12 r9 doubles your +6 r8 in terms of damage... and I can not even "shred" multiple +10 r9 robes in group pvp without taking fire. The difference is... I am more likely to survive then some r8 with frenzy on. That is not saying that I haven't been frenzied, vow, sharp, or amped by subpar archers... but I am saying that they don't live long after targeting me. And I have yet seem any r8 archer... even the +12 variety "shred" any single person in my squad... nevertheless my entire squad/group.

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

See your acting like your a primary DD who gets focus fired by the enemy squad/squads. Me on the other hand, I hang back assist attack whoever my squad calls as a target and usually just sta>quickshot. I don't really frenzy all that much. And yet again, I'm talking about harshlands where 90% of everyone's gear sucks. r9+10 is 10k hp when they take 1.2k a hit at i think 1.11 aps. Idk how people are geared on your server, but on Harshlands they arent built to take damage. I know a r9 barb who has a +12 weapon and +6 gear w/ no shards. So i don't doubt what you saying about your experiences on yoru server. But yeah, harshlands has all kinds of fail people like that. Clerics w/ full+10 r9 and a tt90gold neck +5 so on and so on