Decrease caster nirv drop rate

Aurantiumina - Heavens Tear

So let me get this straight...you are complaining because casters now can do what only 5aps people could do before?

there's 5aps people that can SOLO normal nirvy, although duo/3man are more popular because they're faster.

So why is it so bad if casters can solo/duo/3man caster nirvy? isn't it what you guys could do all the time anyway? for a LONG time too?

Jealous?

Suck it up, 5aps people used to need casters only to open normal nirvy, now casters can do the same. it's perfectly fair.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

there are a few wiards and psy on dw who solo caster nirvana
and a fair amount of cleric+wizard duos as well

yesterday i was duoing caster nirvana with mitachi (our first time duo)
the whole opening process took me 5 minutes (cause one is always slow)

one run alone is already worth it and enough mats to split just fine

duo/trio caster is more coin/hour than 3man on assasin

even tho 3man is still faster to open, since everyone has to have a opener alt

Grindata_ - Heavens Tear

im glad i know pple who will take non aps to nirvana. i do nirvana on my barb almost daily and it usually goes faster then if i used my 5aps sin cause my barb has sage devour.

FayHumming - Dreamweaver

b:angry QQ about me farm 1billion coins in few days b:surrender30key left b:victoryalway thx 2x rate

zelendra

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My take on it...and I've stated this several times throughout my time here, and done so in nice ways, so I'll just say it like this , this time...DESTROY Nirvana. It is an unbalanced instance. Honestly, the whole fail instance needs to be destroyed. The bosses? Interesting concept...now take those and utilize them to create a new instance. Letss be real. You don't have to be a neurosurgeon to know that if you give a bunch of aps toons a bunch of bosses as an instance...they are going to eat right through it. Let's be real again. By this time, a lot of people are looking at 4-5 aps + bp, and they think that they don't need a cleric. or mystic. Here's an idea. Have the boss cast a debuff that sparking does not purify, but cleric, psychic, weapon debuffs does. Or have it so that the debuff cannot be purified. This means that a class with high defense must take aggro...prefereably a lot of defense...hence your vit/str barbs, and seekers. Throughout the instance, make it an actual instance instead of bosses lined up in a row... The lack of groups of mobs means that classes that would normally handle them do not...since they are not present. But wait...sins can stealth past it...well what if you make some mobs ? level. Mystics will deal a lot of damage here, allowing incentive to take them. There is much more that needs to be done here. The fact is...that you've got to make all classes NECESSARY again. Aps players get a huge lead in this game, and the imbalance is evident. Any time that you have an endgame instance...well any instance...but in this case...an ENDGAME INSTANCE...Where half your endgame players....more than half of your endgame players...are standing outside of the entrance selling the right to get in, because they can't get a squad. When an instance is designed for people to just spark, auto...kill...with a few tricks, but basically spark, auto kill...something is very wrong. This isn't to put anyone on blast, but I remember standing outside of the entrance with a very skilled barb, and conversating. The barb remembered me, and I remembered her. The funny thing is that we both remembered the sin that we were selling our keys too...the same sin that chose to be rambo earlier on, and who put the squad at risk was now the sin that would be able to easily obtain the material for new gear...whereas the barb and cleric that had saved the squad from several squad wipes that run were now the ones that were ostracized and deemed useless. Long story short, the balance is screwed. The instance is flawed, it needs to be redone...and done so in a manner that all classes can run it and obtain their gear equally and fairly.

Best post on this forum ever!!!

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have never seen anyone on our server wc that. lol People opening on their other chars, yea. Faction friends opening for you maybe, yea. But selling? Just doesn't happen. o.o

I guess the casters in Dreamweaver have clicked onto the fact that solo/duo caster nivanas can produce a lot of coin even with the cost of openers at 300-350k each. I usually solo when have the time or can be bothered and while I do have a few openers I can call on, I am often left with having to find the last couple by world chatting and as Hex said it usually only takes a few minutes to get them...

Cotillion - Dreamweaver

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I guess the casters in Dreamweaver have clicked onto the fact that solo/duo caster nivanas can produce a lot of coin even with the cost of openers at 300-350k each. I usually solo when have the time or can be bothered and while I do have a few openers I can call on, I am often left with having to find the last couple by world chatting and as Hex said it usually only takes a few minutes to get them...

This......I would never have guessed that another server was behind, as it were, when it came to something like this. I would have assumed the situation would have been similar with people running caster in solo/duo/trio squads.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My take on it...and I've stated this several times throughout my time here, and done so in nice ways, so I'll just say it like this , this time...DESTROY Nirvana. It is an unbalanced instance. Honestly, the whole fail instance needs to be destroyed. The bosses? Interesting concept...now take those and utilize them to create a new instance.

Just FYI, the instance wasn't always this way. Its been reworked once already.
Nirvana is the recycled map of fb109 Hall of Blasphemy (Demon). It used have connecting corridors, full of mobs and bosses. So...they've reworked it once already into the easy breezy run it is now, there's little chance of them reworking it yet again. (before anyone asks, fb109 Sage was recycled into what is now Warsong)

The original Nirvana map when it was the Hall of Blasphemy :

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee279/Khedrak/Perfect%20World/FB%20Maps/fb109HallofBlasphemy.jpg

I'm only pointing this bit of PW history out to show that this is what they commonly do. Take an unused map/instance, butcher it up, rename it and throw it out there as a new one. You can see how much potential just from the map alone what they had to work with and could have used in making this a bigger, longer, tougher instance. They opted to make it as it is now....presumably meant to be an APS haven. Honestly, I think it was kind of designed with that idea in mind - given the drop rates (making speed a necessity to gain anything within a reasonable amount of time), having bosses that break macro-perma spark (why do this if you didn't think that's what would happen?). Just the way its designed makes me believe it wasn't an imbalance accident. The RT devs must have known the potential of their cherished Assassin class, after all....
Don't take that as me defending its design....I just don't believe it was some big oversight in imbalance.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

A caster run of today remind me also something that make nirvana>caster.

Caster boss can drop 0 chests, it happen more often in normal time, but i found out today it also happen in 2x, we got a boss that drop nothing, in normal nirvana it's not something that happen.

nixop

FayHumming - Dreamweaver wrote: »

b:angry QQ about me farm 1billion coins in few days b:surrender30key left b:victoryalway thx 2x rate

you spent 10k$ to get third recast so after year and a half you can solo caster...get serious

charmblssm1

so take away talismans from bh.... that would cut down on the number of openers dramatically.

and to all the aps people complaining, do like you told the casters before casters nirvana existed: go roll a caster and ****.

Cotillion - Dreamweaver

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

A caster run of today remind me also something that make nirvana>caster.

Caster boss can drop 0 chests, it happen more often in normal time, but i found out today it also happen in 2x, we got a boss that drop nothing, in normal nirvana it's not something that happen.

Not really. Boss drops 2 chests, both open to be mirages. That's pretty well the equivalent of nothing and does happen, probably more often than a boss dropping nothing at all in Caster on 2x. Big money on splitting those 2 mirages 3 or 4 ways :P

TheDendra - Harshlands

sachelfunlol wrote: »

This again, lol. TheDendra that does not take in account casters running niv every day even outside of 2x unlike the majority of melees which only run niv during 2x. The math has been done, casters end up making more on average on the grand scale. If people learned how to save and/or reinvest they would see that

Actually you are wrong. I already covered that in one of the first threads about it, based on the average time it takes to finish each nirvana and based on the average amount of drops, it would take a caster literally two years to farm the same amount of raps/canny that aps can within one or two weeks of 2x drops.

And this is just comparing nirvana drops - not talking about soloing TT which brings you better hourly profit along with everything else pve-wise APS classes dominate (farming COA for example, best thing a caster can do in there is pull bosses to an APS friend). The game is overall broken when you have one class that can kill a boss alone within one or two minutes, whereas it takes five minutes for a full casters squad to do the same.

It's no secret that this game has no balance, so your only option is to pick the side that has the huge advantage and roll with it rather than suffer and hope for a change. Before casters nirvana, 90% of the population online were aps chars, after the initial addition of casters nirvana with the glitch, the numbers got down to maybe 7-3 or even 6-4 ratio, it was also refreshing to see many aps chars pulling out their caster chars from the attic, not to mention many ppl started rerolling caster chars because they could finally do something with them to make money besides cat shopping.

With the removal of the glitch, the numbers decreased once again and it's back to the old ways, aps having a huge advantage, though at least now casters can make money, sure it's once or twice per day and you gotta do it every day with each run being three times longer than an APS run if you want to, like I said, make what an APS char makes within a single 2x drop time span.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

you gotta do it every day with each run being three times longer than an APS run if you want to, like I said, make what an APS char makes within a single 2x drop time span.

A caster run 3 times longer than normal run b:shocked. Casters have come a long way since that time. All the caster runs i have been in are 10~15 minute affair. Even the fabled 5 minute nirvana aps run, take 8~10 minute total, it takes 2~4 minutes to fly back. So on time, caster vana and aps vana is not that far apart. If caster vana started taking all OP people, they be just as quick as aps vana.

Fast apas vana squads have most people at +10, g15, g16 weapons. Imagine casters all have r8, r9, g15, g16 at +10, have a seeker/bm or both, those caster be hitting 300~600k each, bosses go down in 1~2 sparks. The difference with casters right now is that they do not ask for r9+10 wizzy, psy only. They have more flexibility, once they start doing that, sorry to say buy caster will win over normal vana every time in terms of drops and speed.

They only need to do 1/2 the runs aps vana needs to be on similar earning ratio. If an aps person does 20, they only need 10. Getting 10 tali is not hard, assuming one has alts to scrounge off on. You just need to open with your alt and switch in. Most people do have 2~4 caster alts, not all at 100+, but a growing number is getting there. A disturbing number of aps people are switching to caster because of higher profits.

On a normal non 2x caster vana the split is = 2x aps vana run, usually. 2x just makes one b:dirty.

All that being said, the above is my personal opinion, observation, it is not fact. Stating that caster vana people earn less than aps is an opinion. To make it a fact, you have to gear each of the two squads with equal gears in terms of dd power, and test it over multiple squads, multiple times. After doing it religiously, once can draw some conclusions. Basing thoughts on suppositions, does not help make it fact. At present any retorts will boil down to your word against my word, and that is the realm of argument, opinions, thoughts, not facts b:pleased.

TheDendra - Harshlands

Invest the same amount of coins into aps char and caster char, the aps char will be ten times stronger in pve and make way more money. What you are talking about is basically a supreme endgame caster vs average aps char, in that sense they can both make close to equal amount of money via nirvana. But the r9 caster still won't solo TT with ease of an aps char, farming more coins per hour that way.

Don't get me wrong, a solid geared caster nirvana with a good classes setup can do 8min runs, but then you have to take into account the fact that we can do limited amount of runs and need to invest time+money to do multis on 2x in comparison to aps chars who simply stack keys, crawl out of their holes when 2x is on and farm the sht out of it. If you have a 5aps char that cuts through bosses with a simple auto-attack and doesn't need to worry about anything, you aren't really gonna go in casters, only reason you will want to do casters is cuz you're bored and want something different, or you simply have a talisman to waste.

PvE in pwi is in general non-existent and **** easy, especially if you are an APS char, you can throw your cat on the keyboard and your sin will do just fine killing the boss.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

instead of upgrading my g13 assasin to g16 i can just +12 the g16 magic sword and can make coin faster in duo caster

farming characters cost so much to be up to date

now i can focus more on the char i do tw with
the assasin is there when i need to tank ws/bh or wanna farm tt
g13+12 just wont keep up with g16 and rank 9 with the extreme attack lvls

Salari - Raging Tide

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

Actually you are wrong. I already covered that in one of the first threads about it, based on the average time it takes to finish each nirvana and based on the average amount of drops, it would take a caster literally two years to farm the same amount of raps/canny that aps can within one or two weeks of 2x drops.

Yes I remember your comment, and it was refuted several times in different threads by casters and melee's alike with real data not loose estimations. During the same time period with and without 2x casters will run niv and melee's will only run during 2x. The comments and math reflected that at the near minimum casters will on average farm the same amount of coins (raps+cannies+extra coins) during the time period leading up to and including 2x as melee's are capable of just during the 2x time period. Any niv runs melee's do before 2x will actualy hurt any profits by limiting how many runs they can do during 2x. All melees do by stacking keys is catch up to what casters have already farmed before 2x even started.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

so. lets say a +10 g16 wiard and +6 r8 vit cleric take 40 minutes (including opening process) to do 1 run

need to pay 4 openers 300k

now only counting raptures its usually around 3-6 (up to how many max? 14? 16?)



how long does 1 run take for a up to date sin + bm duo?
including opening process.

need to pay 4 openers 200k each


can you do 3 runs in 40 minutes?
include your way there!

cause 3 runs would put you at drops compareable to 1 caster run

but ironically your opener cost is higher
since you have to pay the lower price 3 times
opener alts come in more handy here tho since you dont need to do bh on them

its a bit of a nobrainer. i get tired so fast


aand ofc who spams nirvana anyways?
do 5 99key stacks and help 5 friends do their 5-10 each....
tbats enough nirvana for me.... sick of it after doing them

cant do that in caster either!

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

now only counting raptures its usually around 3-6 (up to how many max? 14? 16?)

Rapture in caster? Max 8 i think, i never saw more than 8 and 8 it's realllllyy lucky generally it's more 3-4 in 2x sometime 5, it's really lucky if you get 6-7-8.

In all the runs i did so far in that 2x, i saw 2 times 8 raptures drop.

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

now only counting raptures its usually around 3-6 (up to how many max? 14? 16?)

How the hell are you suposed to get 14 or 16 when the boss only drops 12 things? b:laugh
Max I ever got is 8 I thin, but theoreticly it should be possible for all 12 drops to be raptures

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How the hell are you suposed to get 14 or 16 when the boss only drops 12 things? b:laugh
Max I ever got is 8 I thin, but theoreticly it should be possible for all 12 drops to be raptures

Maximum of 12 raptures albeit a very small chance. Hex was likely drunk when imagining 14 or 16 drops...

TheDendra - Harshlands

Max raps I got was 11.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Maximum of 12 raptures albeit a very small chance. Hex was likely drunk when imagining 14 or 16 drops...

The odds of 12 Raps would be 1:1,881,677.

That's pretty much worse than 99% of the "perfect" rolls on gear. The sole exception that I remember off the top of my head would be recast R8s with 3x -0.05. For example, the odds of getting 3x -0.05 on recast R8 boots would be about 1:244,140,625

powergroth

PW should put the Imperial Fury BH Bosses in Nirvana b:quiet

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

The odds of 12 Raps would be 1:1,881,677.

That's pretty much worse than 99% of the "perfect" rolls on gear. The sole exception that I remember off the top of my head would be recast R8s with 3x -0.05. For example, the odds of getting 3x -0.05 on recast R8 boots would be about 1:244,140,625

Always stay optimistic b:laugh

FayHumming - Dreamweaver

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Maximum of 12 raptures albeit a very small chance. Hex was likely drunk when imagining 14 or 16 drops...

b:cryonly only see 10xRap drop once so far and 8-6 atless few time.

RebeI - Harshlands

FayHumming - Dreamweaver wrote: »

b:cryonly only see 10xRap drop once so far and 8-6 atless few time.

How the hell did you get so many DQ points? :O why would you want so much? :O event gold for charms? :S

kawaiijen

RebeI - Harshlands wrote: »

How the hell did you get so many DQ points? :O why would you want so much? :O event gold for charms? :S

You can thank the Heroic Chest Promotion. It gave chest of coins as well as tons of mirages. So people who invested in that promotion profited heavily from it as well as obtained tons of free DQP. I never will need to buy a charm again thanks to it. b:chuckle

FayHumming - Dreamweaver

RebeI - Harshlands wrote: »

How the hell did you get so many DQ points? :O why would you want so much? :O event gold for charms? :S

b:victory Farming