Decrease caster nirv drop rate

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That glitch did get fixed, yes. People are still running it without one, with a loophole in the game mechanics.

He means buying 6 openers, and than after the instance is open, entering on the toons that run the instance (which only costs a key)

Cotillion - Dreamweaver

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

He means buying 6 openers, and than after the instance is open, entering on the toons that run the instance (which only costs a key)

Full squad of 6 can run 6 times using only 1 of their own Talismans each time. Or, as I have seen, one person can repeatedly run it over and over without needing a Talisman, they just buy 6 openers.

All 6 in squad go in. 5 soft-log. Remaining buys 5 openers. He opens it, openers leave. Rest of squad logs back in, get reinvited to squad and now run it with no Talisman cost.
Next run, someone else stays to pay the openers.
In the case of soloers, they get one of the openers they are paying to open it (as I have done).
Thus rendering the argument about limited Talismans moot.

People have been doing this a while now apparently. Just because some of you never thought of it or have never seen it doesn't make it not legit or mean its not happening. Now that the word is out to the people that never thought of it, let the abuse begin b:chuckle

Mitachi - Dreamweaver

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Full squad of 6 can run 6 times using only 1 of their own Talismans each time. Or, as I have seen, one person can repeatedly run it over and over without needing a Talisman, they just buy 6 openers.

All 6 in squad go in. 5 soft-log. Remaining buys 5 openers. He opens it, openers leave. Rest of squad logs back in, get reinvited to squad and now run it with no Talisman cost.
Next run, someone else stays to pay the openers.
In the case of soloers, they get one of the openers they are paying to open it (as I have done).
Thus rendering the argument about limited Talismans moot.

People have been doing this a while now apparently. Just because some of you never thought of it or have never seen it doesn't make it not legit or mean its not happening. Now that the word is out to the people that never thought of it, let the abuse begin b:chuckle

This is not a bug tho..... Its called using your brain

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Full squad of 6 can run 6 times using only 1 of their own Talismans each time.

As many people already said, that glitch have been fix a long time ago.

Buy a opener for open is not a glitch, not illegal.

Many APS, log 3-4 accounts to be able to open a normal nirvana and fully buff, but run it at 3-4 mans, which is illegal (log 3 accounts and more at the same time). Caster at least pay the opener, a melee with a tali is freaking happy to get a free canny, while APS cheat by multi-client more than 2 accounts to run at 3-4 mans. Caster in some case will do 5 mans, but i never saw 2 casters multi-client 6 accounts to do it 3-4 mans.

Cotillion - Dreamweaver

Mitachi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This is not a bug tho..... Its called using your brain

Never said it was It is using your brain using the loophole in the mechanic/system

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

As many people already said, that glitch have been fix a long time ago.

And maybe you should read my whole post, since I'm not talking about the old catshop glitch at all. And using the logging method, you can multi alts for a couple free/no talisman runs as well, for as many Talismans as you have on alts.
Yes, APS Nirvana is more open for alt abuse, I don't disagree.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Example: My mystic is my main, i use my daily tali and do a caster run, than i go on my cleric do a bh get a tali, open on cleric than switch and come do the run on mystic. Why it's bad? I did run the bh on a char and i run the caster on a char, what's the matter on which one i do it?

Don't forget that we need a key too to enter, so if we do all bh we get 5 keys a day and as some people mentionned casters run it all the time not just in 2x, so we don't stack keys like APS do, so i doubt some people can do 50 casters run a day, alts or not, opener or not, cause that will mean the person use 50 keys a day which will make the person out of keys really fast.

Cotillion - Dreamweaver

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Example: My mystic is my main, i use my daily tali and do a caster run, than i go on my cleric do a bh get a tali, open on cleric than switch and come do the run on mystic. Why it's bad? I did run the bh on a char and i run the caster on a char, what's the matter on which one i do it?

This is what people do...but to a larger degree.

You are on your Mystic. You use a key and go in. You soft-log while an opener takes your place. After its open, you rejoin. You are now running Caster without any Talisman cost at all.
I don't care what you do with your alts and never said its bad. I have not used it to defend APS Nirvana VS Caster. I have not said at all its bad or a glitch. Its a loophole in the instance/squadding.
All I am saying is that people can run Caster all they want without any Talismans as long as there are openers and they want to pay for them. Thus rendering the limited Talisman argument people toss around moot. That's all I am saying.

Xainou - Sanctuary

Uhm, you can enter the place after it's opened too, ijs. You don't need to log inside.

And that's not a glitch e.e

Tsukyini - Raging Tide

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm not talking about the old catshop glitch at all.

Since it's already been fixed, I'm guessing it's ok to ask: How did that glitch work? All I've gathered from the forums is that it involves a catshop in some way.b:shutup

Lyritha - Heavens Tear

based on how many you need for R9 stage 3 I think it reasonable to increase the drop rate b:laugh

Xainou - Sanctuary

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

Since it's already been fixed, I'm guessing it's ok to ask: How did that glitch work? All I've gathered from the forums is that it involves a catshop in some way.b:shutup

Basically everyone but the opener went into kitty shop mode, opener opens, passes lead to someone else. Everyone can leave kitty now and only opener lost their tali.

Dragoneast - Sanctuary

So what should a pure vit barb do who's using a +5 gold fcc wep, gets barely anwers when making own squads and cant solo any TT? i need money too for g15 morai axes b:cry

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This is what people do...but to a larger degree.

You are on your Mystic. You use a key and go in. You soft-log while an opener takes your place. After its open, you rejoin. You are now running Caster without any Talisman cost at all.
I don't care what you do with your alts and never said its bad. I have not used it to defend APS Nirvana VS Caster. I have not said at all its bad or a glitch. Its a loophole in the instance/squadding.
All I am saying is that people can run Caster all they want without any Talismans as long as there are openers and they want to pay for them. Thus rendering the limited Talisman argument people toss around moot. That's all I am saying.

I think you forgot to read the part where i talk about keys. Casters need keys to enter too ijs, so even if they buy opener they become out of keys and can't run til the next day where they get MAX 5 keys.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

My take on it...and I've stated this several times throughout my time here, and done so in nice ways, so I'll just say it like this , this time...DESTROY Nirvana. It is an unbalanced instance. Honestly, the whole fail instance needs to be destroyed. The bosses? Interesting concept...now take those and utilize them to create a new instance. Letss be real. You don't have to be a neurosurgeon to know that if you give a bunch of aps toons a bunch of bosses as an instance...they are going to eat right through it. Let's be real again. By this time, a lot of people are looking at 4-5 aps + bp, and they think that they don't need a cleric. or mystic. Here's an idea. Have the boss cast a debuff that sparking does not purify, but cleric, psychic, weapon debuffs does. Or have it so that the debuff cannot be purified. This means that a class with high defense must take aggro...prefereably a lot of defense...hence your vit/str barbs, and seekers. Throughout the instance, make it an actual instance instead of bosses lined up in a row... The lack of groups of mobs means that classes that would normally handle them do not...since they are not present. But wait...sins can stealth past it...well what if you make some mobs ? level. Mystics will deal a lot of damage here, allowing incentive to take them. There is much more that needs to be done here. The fact is...that you've got to make all classes NECESSARY again. Aps players get a huge lead in this game, and the imbalance is evident. Any time that you have an endgame instance...well any instance...but in this case...an ENDGAME INSTANCE...Where half your endgame players....more than half of your endgame players...are standing outside of the entrance selling the right to get in, because they can't get a squad. When an instance is designed for people to just spark, auto...kill...with a few tricks, but basically spark, auto kill...something is very wrong. This isn't to put anyone on blast, but I remember standing outside of the entrance with a very skilled barb, and conversating. The barb remembered me, and I remembered her. The funny thing is that we both remembered the sin that we were selling our keys too...the same sin that chose to be rambo earlier on, and who put the squad at risk was now the sin that would be able to easily obtain the material for new gear...whereas the barb and cleric that had saved the squad from several squad wipes that run were now the ones that were ostracized and deemed useless. Long story short, the balance is screwed. The instance is flawed, it needs to be redone...and done so in a manner that all classes can run it and obtain their gear equally and fairly.

Cotillion - Dreamweaver

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I think you forgot to read the part where i talk about keys. Casters need keys to enter too ijs, so even if they buy opener they become out of keys and can't run til the next day where they get MAX 5 keys.

I didn't forget it, because logically, it's kind of irrelevant.
If you know you can open Caster this way, and you know we're getting 2x in Sept (like every year), do you:
A)Waste keys running on 1x drops?

or

B)Save your keys knowing you can open Caster without your Talisman?

You assume people wasted keys knowing 2x was coming and they could do this. Sure people only learning now are limited, but this has been happening a while now and I guarantee people saved for this.

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Uhm, you can enter the place after it's opened too, ijs. You don't need to log inside.

And that's not a glitch e.e

I never once said it was a 'glitch' as you're defining it. And you jumped down my throat about not being able to run without using a Talisman....now you're an expert. I see.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I didn't forget it, because logically, it's kind of irrelevant.
If you know you can open Caster this way, and you know we're getting 2x in Sept (like every year), do you:
A)Waste keys running on 1x drops?

or

B)Save your keys knowing you can open Caster without your Talisman?

You assume people wasted keys knowing 2x was coming and they could do this. Sure people only learning now are limited, but this has been happening a while now and I guarantee people saved for this.

Not to mention that still have at least 1 key left every day even if you do caster nirvana outside of 2x (assuming you save Corona influence for 2x, at least it would save you on having to pay for openers).

Valirah - Sanctuary

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You are on your Mystic. You use a key and go in. You soft-log while an opener takes your place. After its open, you rejoin. You are now running Caster without any Talisman cost at all.

By what strange logic is there no Talisman cost here? The openers each require a Talisman. Just because someone else can later take their place does not negate the fact that Talismans were needed and consumed. Not sure where one would find such an abundance of paid openers to make this worthwhile for more than a run or two. The logistics of of organizing something like this on a scale can can approach abuse seems rather far fetched.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I didn't forget it, because logically, it's kind of irrelevant.
If you know you can open Caster this way, and you know we're getting 2x in Sept (like every year), do you:
A)Waste keys running on 1x drops?

or

B)Save your keys knowing you can open Caster without your Talisman?

You assume people wasted keys knowing 2x was coming and they could do this. Sure people only learning now are limited, but this has been happening a while now and I guarantee people saved for this.



I never once said it was a 'glitch' as you're defining it. And you jumped down my throat about not being able to run without using a Talisman....now you're an expert. I see.

Majority of casters do caster even in normal time, i know even some that run casters in normal time and use their APS chars in 2x, which pretty much mean: normal>caster.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not to mention that still have at least 1 key left every day even if you do caster nirvana outside of 2x (assuming you save Corona influence for 2x, at least it would save you on having to pay for openers).

In my case i have 4 caster chars, so daily i got 4 tali without bh up to 12 tali if bh done, if i do bh on all of them and just want to run caster on one of them, i can't not enough keys. For people with just one char they get more keys then talis, but in the case people have more chars and open on alts and run on the main, not enough keys.

Quilue - Sanctuary

I don't know where you drew that conclusion from. You will rarely see anyone run aps NV outside of 2x because it's simply not worth it. Most people let those keys pile up and simply run 99 during 2x and be done with it. Very little percentage of the keys is actually used for individual runs compared to 99keys.

Not saying caster is super good that everyone rushes to do it outside of 2x, it's simply that some people don't want to waste their talis as it's timed so they run a quick caster like a daily. On the other hand, caster NV have proven to be the preferential mode of NV by a lot of top geared archers, and rightly so. The loot I gain in a 6 man caster squad is similar to 3 man aps NV. A caster run have been compared to a 99keys in average amount of loot by a lot of people who have run both. The only reason one might not run caster at all during 2x is because it's slightly harder to get together a group of people not dumb enough to turn in their talis for mirages. Otherwise I don't see why one would aps when one has talis available.

The way to store up talis similar to how one would store up keys is by being in Corona and doing the morai stuff.

Anyways, in the end, casters still seem jealous that "apsers" can store up keys when they ignore the fact that nobody sane actually run for all their keys and that most just burn their keys in 99key runs, and it's simply because most people have better things to do than run hundreds of aps nirvana, even during 2x. If people are that jealous and that devoted to the game such that they want to run nirvana hundreds of times, then do go through the trouble of buying talismans for 3 mans runs, because it's probably even more worth it for much less runs.

Tsukyini - Raging Tide

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Basically everyone but the opener went into kitty shop mode, opener opens, passes lead to someone else. Everyone can leave kitty now and only opener lost their tali.

.....How in the world did people even come across that glitch in the first place? b:shocked

Cotillion - Dreamweaver

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

By what strange logic is there no Talisman cost here? The openers each require a Talisman. Just because someone else can later take their place does not negate the fact that Talismans were needed and consumed. Not sure where one would find such an abundance of paid openers to make this worthwhile for more than a run or two. The logistics of of organizing something like this on a scale can can approach abuse seems rather far fetched.

Okay...lets's spell it all out point by point. There is no Talisman cost for the people spamming Caster.
It's nowhere near as difficult as you make it seem.
Let's take 2 OP Casters. They duo it using their own Talismans.
Then next run, they world chat for 6 openers. They get 6, they have them open the instance, pay them, then go in using keys only and run it again. At no talisman cost to them. Yes, they paid for the openers, but don't need a Talisman of their own and can spam the instance. This requires no logistics or organization beyond buying teleacoustics to spam for openers. Thats nowhere near anything that requires planning on a gigantic scale.
Hence for people that can duo/trio Caster and want to spam it....Talisman restrictions are a non-issue.

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

.....How in the world did people even come across that glitch in the first place? b:shocked

Because this happens by accident sometimes, even still in regular Nirvana. If you are in trade mode (paying openers) when it is being opened, you still have the item in your inventory. Someone saw this and took it to the next step in Caster with the Talisman.

MagicEmpress - Lost City

You forgetting Corona can buy tails now.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not saying caster is super good that everyone rushes to do it, it's simply that some people don't want to waste their talis as it's timed. The way to store up talis similar to how one would store up keys is by being in Corona.

Yea i forgot about that, in not 2x time caster get a tali timed 24h, if they don't use they lose it or can exange for mirages/subs/chips, but a caster run in normal time worth more than 5 mirages/subs/chips.

A caster run in normal time give around 750k-1m, if the person do the 2 BHs that mean around 2.250m-3m each day.

@Cotillion do you really think caster will not use their talismans and lose 2.5m everyday just to keep keys for anniversary 2x?

At 95% of the time casters squad do one run than split cause someone don't have anymore tali or can't continue, it take around 30 minutes + for a caster run, form the squad, wait the people to come in, do the run, split, check all the 76 shops to see which one have the highest price. The time i do one caster run, my boyfriend do 5-6 APS run on his sin.

Want decrease caster drop? Okay i'm fine with it, but put a timer so APS cannot do more than one run every 30 minutes so that gonna be fair, same amount of drops same amount of runs.

Edit: I just read your last spot, let me tell you that sometime i see a person world chat for 20 minutes before find ONE opener so he can do a second run with the same squad. Do you imagine the time to find 6 openers? LOl they will do 1-2 run every 2 hours, so much a spam of runs...

Xainou - Sanctuary

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

.....How in the world did people even come across that glitch in the first place? b:shocked

You know I can totally see that happening. With my smartass friend, setting up a catshop making a weird comment about someone next to him. Then noticing he still has his tali when it's open o.o; lol

TempleSlave - Lost City

This thread and all the people whining in here give me a headache.

If you're a caster complaining about aps, you should have already quit the game. Go away.

If you're aps complaining about talisman glitch or caster nirvana, go way, quit the game.


Nothing is new, nothing has changed. Your incessant whining about these things for the past two years is nothing new. If it bugs you. Shut up and leave already.

Valirah - Sanctuary

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Okay...lets's spell it all out point by point. There is no Talisman cost for the people spamming Caster.
It's nowhere near as difficult as you make it seem.
Let's take 2 OP Casters. They duo it using their own Talismans.
Then next run, they world chat for 6 openers. They get 6, they have them open the instance, pay them, then go in using keys only and run it again. At no talisman cost to them. Yes, they paid for the openers, but don't need a Talisman of their own and can spam the instance. This requires no logistics or organization beyond buying teleacoustics to spam for openers. Thats nowhere near anything that requires planning on a gigantic scale.

IDK, must be a DW thing, I've yet to see or hear of anyone WC looking for openers for Caster. I've been running CV fairly often this x2 and it can sometimes take time to fill a squad with people who want to go, let alone finding random people with nothing better to do than spend 20 minutes to "sell" their Tali while someone searches for more selllers. What is the going rate anyway? Doesn't seem like it's worth the hassle for a seller, since they can turn in Tali's for goods anyway.

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hence for people that can duo/trio Caster and want to spam it....Talisman restrictions are a non-issue.

I'd hardly call a plan relying entirely on finding multiple willing stooges to open via WC a "non-issue".

Cotillion - Dreamweaver

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

IDK, must be a DW thing, I've yet to see or hear of anyone WC looking for openers for Caster. I've been running CV fairly often this x2 and it can sometimes take time to fill a squad with people who want to go, let alone finding random people with nothing better to do than spend 20 minutes to "sell" their Tali while someone searches for more selllers. What is the going rate anyway? Doesn't seem like it's worth the hassle for a seller, since they can turn in Tali's for goods anyway.



I'd hardly call a plan relying entirely on finding multiple willing stooges to open via WC a "non-issue".

Are you playing the same game I am? Or is Sanctuary just that bad? How can you not have seen anyone looking for Caster openers? I've answered random WC for Caster openers, have done this logging open and been in and out in a few minutes.

But yer right, 50k mirages for turn in is far better than 300~350k to take a few mins to open it. And insulting the entire opener population as 'stooges' was certainly called for.
Not only do people spam looking for openers, I see people spamming offering to open - "Barb opener 200k, or 300k Caster *linked Talisman*".
But honestly, whatever...feels like you're arguing it just for the sake of arguing it. Coz I can't believe Sanctuary is so bad that noone has looked for a Caster opener in WC at all.
Enjoy the rest of your 2x.

Haila - Sanctuary

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Are you playing the same game I am? Or is Sanctuary just that bad? How can you not have seen anyone looking for Caster openers? I've answered random WC for Caster openers, have done this logging open and been in and out in a few minutes.

But yer right, 50k mirages for turn in is far better than 300~350k to take a few mins to open it. And insulting the entire opener population as 'stooges' was certainly called for.
Not only do people spam looking for openers, I see people spamming offering to open - "Barb opener 200k, or 300k Caster *linked Talisman*".
But honestly, whatever...feels like you're arguing it just for the sake of arguing it. Coz I can't believe Sanctuary is so bad that noone has looked for a Caster opener in WC at all.
Enjoy the rest of your 2x.

I'm not gonna waste a key to open somebody's caster also.
And i'm from Sanctuary b:bye

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Dream has.. a very erratic schedule of people spamming "I have a talisman to sell" and "I want to sell a talisman"

Going rate seems to be 250k; but depends on time of day - the area around nirvana itself seems to be full of people begging to open (normal) nirvana (I think they spend longer begging than they would going in, but what do I know?)

Anyway, yes. Selling talismans is a real thing. And why wouldn't it be? I don't have the time to do a run, just logged in to do faction quests quick, someone spams a worldchat offering me 300k in exchange for a few mirages/subs? Sure, why not.

Xainou - Sanctuary

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Coz I can't believe Sanctuary is so bad that noone has looked for a Caster opener in WC at all.

I have never seen anyone on our server wc that. lol People opening on their other chars, yea. Faction friends opening for you maybe, yea. But selling? Just doesn't happen. o.o