Are merchants, scammers?

paunster

Recently I've been gambling packs and winning good items like a championship scroll and because I'm not familiar with the pricing of things I opted to pc it and was overwhelm with the amount of answers I recieved. One person in particular (who I found out now is a merchant) convinced me that its far cheaper than the going rate in HT server which is 21m-25m and told me to sell for extremely cheaper. And being the gullible person that I am I believed him and sold to his alt (unknowly I might add) for a couple millions less and upon looking at his catshop he has a vast majority of pack items for a good amount of coins and the shop next to him does to and so forth. This got me thinking are these merchants making the mass amount of coins that they due by scamming lowbies and unknowly people? I mean I get it people got to make their money some how but I would hate to make it by scamming others. InB4QQ comments at me hehe.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Not really. If you believe that one person instead of the 259834 other people telling you it's 21-25m, then well.. it's your fault.

SpiritDivine - Sanctuary

Far from every merchant do this. They of course try to make money buy buying cheap and selling expensive but that is taking it to far. I would think there area few like that on every server though.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Next time take the highest offer, if people was offering you 21-25m and you choose the other guy with the lowest amount it's your fault.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Keep in mind event items in catshops are listed above the average market price. Thats why they are still in the catshop and haven't been bought.

The event items that actually sell are a few millions lower.

paunster

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Not really. If you believe that one person instead of the 259834 other people telling you it's 21-25m, then well.. it's your fault.

The sad part was his price was the highest of all the pms, I got people telling me it was only 7m-9m.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Next time beside do a price check say directly that you sell it and ask offer, than you will see the price people can pay, on price check people will try low price in case the person say yes.

WrathOfGod_ - Sanctuary

Buy low sell high is what cat shoppers live by. If they see an opportunity for profit, they pursue it.

lunazys

Not really scam. It's the point of being a merchant, buy cheap, sell for more. If it happens on real world, why not here?
And it works because always, always, there will be people who will sell them cheap things. That they didn't know the real price? As if it were that dificult to get it. I mean, most people just waste teles asking things, instead of just looking on google or something... o_O
Humans in general are just morons, in one aspect or another.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

paunster wrote: »

The sad part was his price was the highest of all the pms, I got people telling me it was only 7m-9m.

Ah, then your best bet would have been patience, unless you really needed coins at the moment. We live and learn. I've made that mistake before, and I've did that to someone before.

Bryan - Raging Tide

I lol at this. The seller is just as likely to use deception to sell an item by Lying about other offers. The BS c/o they slap on the end of every world chat is my biggest pet peeve. Sure buddy you have current offer of 50m on something i can buy 2 of for that price.
At the end of the day prices are fluid and you decide what its worth to you if the market will bare that price then it will sell if not you'll sit on the item. Merchants do it to make a profit its there job to get the best deal on an item they can. They are taking a gamble by buying the items and need to protect themselves from market fluctuations.
Do Some research on what you plan to sell. Watch world chat for ppl selling items you plan to sell. Look at cat shops buy now prices that will help give an idea of what ppl are willing to pay and still make a profit. Many times a merch will have the same item in there shop buying n selling that will show what they think the top of the market is. Usually you can set your price somewhere in the middle and have a good chance at selling it.

Reliea - Sanctuary

No it's not a scam to offer to buy something knowing that you're offering way below the 'going rate'. It's also not a scam to try to sell something at what others perceive as a high price.
Would it be a scam, if you were selling your car, for someone to come up and offer you well below the bluebook price for your car? Nope.
Seller's remorse is no reason to accuse merchants about being scammers; it's not nice to 'take advantage' of ignorance, but the best way to not be taken advantage of is to be informed.

The best thing to do when you get something which you feel has obvious value is to NOT sell it. Surf catshops for days looking at what people are buying/selling it for if you have no idea whatsoever. WC is -not- a valuable tool for price-checking I find, unless you see poeple WCing to sell the thing you're also trying to sell.

There is usually a great discrepancy between the buying price and the selling price of an item. Take DOTs for example; many people try to buy for between 14-18 mil, while catshops often sell for 20+

Some things though, like event mounts (such as the new rhino) have a great chance to fall dramatically in value once there is a good number of them on the server. The good thing about those is you can most likely see people WCing to sell them regularly, so you could catshop over night at a price lower than what you've seen advertised and hope someone buys it.

Once you have established a base-line for prices, like in my DOT example, then you have many options. If you want money fast, sell to the catshop buying at the highest price (duh). If you're not in a hurry, sell at a median rate in your own catshop. After you've done some catshop research THEN you could WC for a PC, because at least now you have a good base of information; that way if someone offers 5 mil for a DOT I know they're way lowballing me.

Asterelle is right though, a lot of shops selling event items like gems and such seem to never sell their goods because their prices are unreasonable.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Some people also sometime pm with many chars really nab offer and pm with one a less nab offer but still nab and got it.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Bryan - Raging Tide wrote: »

Or the bs c/o they slap on the end of every world chat is my biggest pet peeve. Sure buddy you have current offer of 50m on something i can buy 2 of for that price.

When i offer a fair price to someone to buy something, i tell them striaght up, if you do an auction thing, my bid is off. If they go ahead with the bid, i harrass that player with my alts, drive the price 2~5x original price, and when they pm alts, they get no response. They end up selling the item at half or third the price, because they are tired of the bs fake bidding b:cute. If something is worth 25m, i offer 25m, why would someone waste 30 teles just to get an extra 100k~2m?

To OP: It's sad, but it happens. There are nice merchants as well. I have learnt, there is no real need to sell on world chat. I just tele once or twice for the item. If i get a good offer that is in my range, i sell it. Otherwise i set up a shop, and most of the time, people buy the item in a few hours to a few days.

Recently i was selling a warsong belt, the highest offer i ever got after 6 days of tele was 15m. I set up shop for 90m, and the belt sold over night. Other times i bought flyers, mounts for cheap, and they sell in 1~4 days. To make it successfully, one has to have patience and information. Without those two, every other deal will seem like a scam or amazing luck.

As a merchant, i have no idea why people pay the amount they pay for the items i sell, but if they pay it, i will take it. The notion of price and value is very perverted in pwi. There is no real value to tie any item. In real world, you have money, you believe a mars bar is worth $5, i think it is worth $1. Our notion of value depends on many things, coming from how much we want it and are willing to give up for it, alternatives and the whole economics behind it. The price is set over a time period based on multiple buying and selling of something. There are chances to buy something cheap and sell expensive in the real world, but in pwi, every single item is like that.

Since there is no collective dictating understanding, prices are skewed in pwi. The champion scroll for example. People pay 10~25m for it. It can also be acquired for free, without having to buy packs. Costs 100k, so not free, but way cheaper than 10~25m. Page of fate cost 450~550k, i make 10~20 for 100k cost total. People spend money on tt gold items, they chip, those same item can be farmed. Pan gu tome can be made for 175m or less, people pay 275m~400m for it. There are numerous example, simply because people don't have the time, patience and/or information about things. The extra money they are paying is for their lack of time, patience and/or information.

Shandaar - Dreamweaver

Here's the deal.

I merchant for a living in this game, I'll come right out and say it. If I see someone offering something for cheap, I'll buy it, or at least try to. They're free to choose my offer or be patient and try to get something higher. Most of the time, if they'd have PCed before, or bothered to look in catshops, ask people they know or just be patient... they might have sold for higher.

Maybe they're happy with their prices. Maybe they just want the item gone. Sometimes all you need is a bit of money to get you started on merchanting - that's how I started.

Personally, I base myself on going rates. I know I can X amount for an item, I won't buy any higher. I also know I can sell higher. Once again, the seller is free to accept my offer or wait. Sometimes, they know I'm offering less than selling price, and I'm fine with it. I might try to bargain, because profit is profit, but if they don't wanna sell, fine. It's their right.

Now if you ask me for a PC... I'll ask if you're buying or selling first, because I know prices vary and you can get pretty good deals if you're patient.

No, I don't feel I'm scamming. I'm playing market. It's what people do with stocks right?

Jaabg - Sanctuary

I am similar to Shandaar in a way, i base my items on volume. If i can sell things cheaper by 500k~2m, and sell 2~4X as much, i will.

That is why i find catshops appealing, if you want to sell at my price, awesome, if not there are others. Want to buy my stuff at my price, hope you enjoy it. My price is too high, feel free to look around. I escape most of the idiots running around in pwi, but they still manage to leave messages. My all time favourite, selling HP plat charm for 3m is over priced, it should free. That person copy pasted that message, and spammed most shops. Some people have too much free time in this game b:bye

Stocks for me is simply doodling on the paper and picking where the big blots from the pen are b:victory. Assured way to win.

Burnout - Harshlands

Items are worth however much the person believes its worth. I have bought items for higher than market price and been perfectly satisfied because I simply didn't want to wait for another seller.

Conversely I've also sold items at a loss because I was desperate to get rid of a few items. One thing that I think makes me good as a merchant (and at NL texas hold'em ) is that I'm perfectly willing to cut my losses even if I've invested heavily in that item, to pursue more profitable opportunities.

If you're not willing to at least think about how much an item is "probably" worth given demand, item power/usefulness, and supply (and I don't blame anyone for this, it's boring to research and think about prices), then just sell at a price you're happy with and don't worry about it.

Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver

I don't see merchants as scammers. If anything they help everyone out. They buy things that people want to sell, and sell said items to people who want to buy them. Like a link between players. Only logical they sell it for a little more, otherwise they just threw X amount of coins down the drain for no reason. Of course when they try to sell something that is just absolutely horrendously overpriced, then...b:surrender

Oh, but you gotta love all those annoying people that pm you when you sell something in world chat. I world chatted something that I was selling and, like most logical people with a brain would do, sold it to the highest offer right then. Then the person who offered the lowest amount of coin (by several million) kept pming me being all like; "hey what about my offer I offered first! ""thats not fair!" "god you are SO greedy!" "I can't believe you right now!!" etcetc.
And I was like O.o wtf is wrong with you chill out geeze. Why would I say to the highest offer, "oh no sorry, I've decided to sell it to someone who offered 5 million less than you." :l

Of course the next day i see the low bidder in wc trying to sell a few things for a strangely high price.....as far as ive seen they still wc selling those things..its been over a week...lol gooooootta love those hypocritical people.

SH/DO// - Dreamweaver24

the word scammer gets used entirely too much yes i agree there are a lot of people out there trying to scam for example selling the charms that look like page of fate for page of fate prices. but as far as merchants buying low and selling high that dont make them scammers. also someone selling something entirely too high and clearly letting you know what your buying dont make them a scammer. always remember it your option to buy and sell stuff from merchants and double or triple check what your buying make sure it what you think it is

Empu - Sanctuary

I agree many merchants exagerate the margin they claim to buy/resell items. However, they don't trick or fool you when buying at absurt low prices. Up to the seller to inform himself properly on the price and decide how much time they are willing too keep the item to find a better offer.

On top of that, for some the market prices are just to high compared to what they realistically find an item worth. Keep in mind, just like Asterelle said, there are tons of items in shops that never find buyers cause of the ridiculous pricing. Not long ago, I offered 27mil for a claw scroll. Imo, that pet skill is worth 25~30mil, so I won't pay more for it then 30mil. The seller probably took that for some stupid offer and didn't want to sell. Now it's in AH a few weeks already. It's simply a difference in estimation of what that skill is worth.

Ofc, every server must have it's annoying wc stalker crybaby that will harres you with threats and stupid offers if he/she sees a duke spam, then get's mad because you don't sell to him/her. On Sanc, we got a notorious baby like that. It's the only person who deserved to be blacklisted on all my toons, including simple shop alts.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And I was like O.o wtf is wrong with you chill out geeze. Why would I say to the highest offer, "oh no sorry, I've decided to sell it to someone who offered 5 million less than you." :l

I sometimes do, if i get talking to the person, and i understand the reason they are buying it for. Usually, buying it for their ingame wife b:shocked. Demanding people i tell you b:avoid.

Other times if the person is polite, the item has not sold for eons, and i had fun talking to that person, i would sell at their price, even if a bit lower than what i expected.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

I don't know if "scamming" is the right word.

But few(if any)real merchants can deny preying on ignorance, stupidity, and laziness.

What they do when encountered w/ such opportunities is not 100% honest, but most would do the same if placed in a similar position.

BringinDeath - Archosaur

Instead of just rushing in & trying to sell an item, wait a while, watch World Chat & see what items go for. Merchants will ALWAYS pay less ( that gives you a clue ) so they can make a profit from your **** up. So be patient, wait & watch, and LEARN

Altairego - Heavens Tear

I saw a catshop selling an item which looked like a primeval stone for 45 mil even the shop's name was primeval stone. lol scammers.b:angry

Sterlina - Sanctuary

I do merchant, but I would never lie to someone claiming that the X item its worth 50% less than market price.I always try to buy stuff for a fair price(unless someone its stupid enough to offer to me a low price in the first place),and I still made my profits.

Gravediggr - Dreamweaver

When you ask for a PC and someone comes back with a price that's well below fair market value then yes it is a scam...they're trying to scam you out of your item..now if you ask for offers then yea if you rush the sell and get well less than its value then that is your fault...when I see someone ask for PC i assume they want to know what the fair value of item is so that's what i try to give them.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

On the topic of what Empu stated, another question merchants should ask themselves is: Is the wait of selling it for x amount of profit instead of easily selling it for y amount of profit and having that coin on hand to merchant some more worth it?

Just think about it. Unless you have a lot of spare coin, why wait and try to sell an item you bought for 25m that's generally worth... let's say 25-30m, for 35m, and in the end you finally sell it 2 weeks later for a 10m profit, whereas you could have sold it for 30m in 2 days and made a 5m profit, as well as have a chunk of 30m coin to invest in more merchanting.

That's just how I see it. b:avoid

Olbaze - Sanctuary

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

On the topic of what Empu stated, another question merchants should ask themselves is: Is the wait of selling it for x amount of profit instead of easily selling it for y amount of profit and having that coin on hand to merchant some more worth it?

Just think about it. Unless you have a lot of spare coin, why wait and try to sell an item you bought for 25m that's generally worth... let's say 25-30m, for 35m, and in the end you finally sell it 2 weeks later for a 10m profit, whereas you could have sold it for 30m in 2 days and made a 5m profit, as well as have a chunk of 30m coin to invest in more merchanting.

That's just how I see it. b:avoid

That actually varies a lot.

There's plenty of items that literally skyrocket moments after they're out of sale. Dragon Orbs, for example, can go from 110k to 150k in a matter of a week after the sale is over.

Also, some merchants just have so much funds that they can afford to dabble into multiple things, allowing them to hoard stuff post-sale while selling something else. And really, ideally you would always be selling stuff that is off-sale, since the prices are higher then.

Ignathas - Sanctuary

well i used to merchant a lot and on very multiple occasions i was offered an item at very low price, i myself said i would pay more and i paid more according to market price.. didnt make more then 10 max 20% per deal.. those who use multiple accounts to lie to people yes thats unethical

Cantabrum - Archosaur

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

That actually varies a lot.

There's plenty of items that literally skyrocket moments after they're out of sale. Dragon Orbs, for example, can go from 110k to 150k in a matter of a week after the sale is over.

Also, some merchants just have so much funds that they can afford to dabble into multiple things, allowing them to hoard stuff post-sale while selling something else. And really, ideally you would always be selling stuff that is off-sale, since the prices are higher then.

b:dirty +10 b:chuckle

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

I consider what that guy did to be a scam. Because he lied about the price. I don't lie I'm pretty honest. I might make a lower offer, but if someone asks for a price check I'm not going to lie and say something sell for an amount that it doesn't just to get that person's item.

To me if you use fraudulent means to obtain items and money from someone else, you're scamming them.

If you are simply buying low and selling high then it isn't scamming. As long as you aren't lying or pretending to be someone you aren't to get the item, i don't see the problem. If they want to pay you more to get an item right when they want it, or sell it to you low because they can't be bothered to check other catshops. That's their problem.