Why change Fairy Boxes/Keys?

Desdi - Sanctuary

I voted yes, but I honestly don't care. I agree with what Olbaze wrote. We should rather request the keys be made stashable (or tradeable? many BH rewards are anyway).

DreamDrops - Dreamweaver

See how long it takes for a 'New Chest' to appear in Cash shop/& or/addition to list of 'may be' items from a pack - for Keys to open Fairy boxes

Sure as eggs there IS a money motive in the change somewhere.

Change of Fairy Box Keys needed from BH's. To encourage team work running BH's after the tweeking of BH100's, umm may be but - does heaps to boost Charm Sales too

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

DreamDrops - Dreamweaver wrote: »

See how long it takes for a 'New Chest' to appear in Cash shop/& or/addition to list of 'may be' items from a pack - for Keys to open Fairy boxes

Sure as eggs there IS a money motive in the change somewhere.

Change of Fairy Box Keys needed from BH's. To encourage team work running BH's after the tweeking of BH100's, umm may be but - does heaps to boost Charm Sales too

It's be way easier to remove charms from the event boutique if that's all they wanted to do.

Let's put it this way.

You create a mule alt and level it to 70. You don't even have to bother with culti, so you don't. You do not gear it up. You do not squad with new players. New players leave because there is no one to do anything with.

Devs require culti

You do the culti for your alt since it's a one time thing anyway. You do not gear it up. You do not squad with new players. New players leave because there is no one to do anything with.

Devs require BH.


You complain but you gear up the alt and run it's bh. You squad with new players. New players stay because the game is fun. New player buy expensive gear.

And there is the cash incentive. When you add to the problem that botting is a serious problem and people can sell off the characters they leveled by botting and you realize that getting low levels actually playing is even more important there than it is here.

The reduction to f2p player income and increased charm sales are just bonuses but if those were the two things they were after there are much more effective ways to do it.

Breannak - Raging Tide

PWI did it to bring a challenge to us players, thats all. b:cute

Well all good things do come to a end 1 day. b:shocked

Haila - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

bla bla bla...
It's exactly things like this that make it glad that I am a merchant and not a farmer.

I'm a cheap merchant myself, dont farm TT and dont have fairy boxes.
With changes like this one and knowing a big % of your custumors are farmers, i think this is not well said. b:shutup

Xainou - Sanctuary

Haila - Sanctuary wrote: »

With changes like this one and knowing a big % of your custumors are farmers, i think this is not well said. b:shutup

Most farmers do some BH though. Don't assume everyone is such an 'oddball' as the OP and refuses to do BH. lol

Haila - Sanctuary

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Most farmers do some BH though. Don't assume everyone is such an 'oddball' as the OP and refuses to do BH. lol

Sorry Xainou but i think he has the rights to complain about this change, the boxes he has could be opened without keys and now he has to waste time to do a bh for keys, since he doesn't like doing bh's.
Its OK if new boxes gathered would need keys, but old boxes b:surrender
He did a lot effort to get the old boxes and now feels getting ripped off, very understandable.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

You said it a lot better than I did. xD

You used 10 words, I used 492. I think that might explain some of it.

With changes like this one and knowing a big % of your custumors are farmers, i think this is not well said.

Oh I'm not worried about that. I am pretty sure my clientele could care less about my opinion so long as I keep offering the kind of prices they like.

Xainou - Sanctuary

Haila - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sorry Xainou but i think he has the rights to complain about this change, the boxes he has could be opened without keys and now he has to waste time to do a bh for keys, since he doesn't like doing bh's.
Its OK if new boxes gathered would need keys, but old boxes b:surrender
He did a lot effort to get the old boxes and now feels getting ripped off, very understandable.

Stop reading stuff into my posts o_o All I said is that it is rather odd for someone to refuse to do any BH.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Haila - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sorry Xainou but i think he has the rights to complain about this change

I don't seen anyone demanding his thread be locked. But just as he has a right to complain, by posting in the general forum he gives us a right to strongly disagree. And we can all have a discussion on the merits of the change. If you don't want that and just want to vent. It's better to complain loudly to a friend or facmate.

Ois - Lost City

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

The other good part about the Fairy Box keys is that it cuts out the people who were circumventing the 6 box limit by having alts. People complain that PWE does not punish people who abuse loopholes, but now that they did that, people are busy whining like a bunch of losers. That is funny.

How exactly does it limit people from opening **** loads each day? Could a person not roll 20 lvl 70 alts, pick up fairy boxes, then run one BH 59 for said alts and open all the boxes?

Xainou - Sanctuary

Ois - Lost City wrote: »

How exactly does it limit people from opening **** loads each day? Could a person not roll 20 lvl 70 alts, pick up fairy boxes, then run one BH 59 for said alts and open all the boxes?

That would mean you would need to do BH59 4 times a day, given you multi client your solo char and 5 alts in one squad. Uhm ya, I don't see that happening. lol

truekossy

My only real problem with Fairy Box keys is simple: you're still limited to 6 fairy boxes per day per account with them.

If that restriction were to be removed so that any character on your account could open fairy boxes they obtained as long as they had the fairy box key (and maybe if Fairy boxes or the keys became account stashable to go along with this) then that would be fine. Hell, you could even lower the restriction to six fairy boxes per day per CHARACTER and it would be better than the way it is now. People who wanted to open their boxes would need to do more than TT but it would be rewarded.

However with the current implementation, all it does is add extra annoyance. I do BHs and TTs on multiple characters on the same account. At least before I wasn't dedicating two inventory spaces to fairy box related things and could open on whichever character I felt like. Now that on top of the previous restrictions I need to get the keys to do it AND they use up a regular inventory spot instead of being sensible and going in... say... quest inventory? At least if it didn't waste the inventory space on top of keeping the old restrictions it wouldn't be as annoying and in quest inventory you'd have essentially the same function but without the strain on inventory.


And before anyone mentions the big problem with quest inventory items, I'm aware of that but that's why the devs need to either get off their collective ***** and learn how to actually do things right or the introduction of keys should have removed the previous limits on the boxes and made the amount you can open rely solely on the amount of keys you have.

Teiw - Sanctuary

I have 2 level 100 characters on this account and a level 100 on another account. I will at most help out my friends and faction with bounty hunts on my cleric but even then... I'm level 100. I don't like doing bounty hunts

I'd deeply like it if they did away with the fairy box keys. If they gave you 6 keys from doing the attendance sheet quest everyday I wouldn't mind. If they made it so that you could account stash the keys and use them on alts that you actually do bounty hunts on, that would be even better .


If they absolutely refuse to change the system, or if they decide to remove fairy boxes from the game completely. I'm fine with this too =3.

Badazmofo - Dreamweaver

I would not have a problem with the keys if they removed the 6 per day restriction, or make it so you can only open 6 per day without and then require a key every time to bypass that limit.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

That would mean you would need to do BH59 4 times a day, given you multi client your solo char and 5 alts in one squad. Uhm ya, I don't see that happening. lol

Since it's only bh 1 though it wouldn't take all that long. Perhaps about the same amount of time as having an at level squad do all 5 bosses w/o wine. Nothing unmanageable.

Xainou - Sanctuary

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Since it's only bh 1 though it wouldn't take all that long. Perhaps about the same amount of time as having an at level squad do all 5 bosses w/o wine. Nothing unmanageable.

Nah not unmanagable. But all this logging on, off, teleing down, handing in...

Let's not even talk about your computer needing to be able to run 6 clients at once. b:laugh

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nah not unmanagable. But all this logging on, off, teleing down, handing in...

Let's not even talk about your computer needing to be able to run 6 clients at once. b:laugh

Hey apparently there were super dedicated people with like 6 different computers running like 4 clients at once. I mean that's why they limited it two an account right? Because some people had like a zillion accounts on at once. /sarcasm

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nah not unmanagable. But all this logging on, off, teleing down, handing in...

Let's not even talk about your computer needing to be able to run 6 clients at once. b:laugh

It's also a few extra steps for farmers.

Previously all you needed to do was log in, right click the box 6 times, get mirages, send to main, done.

Now you will have to log in on 5 alts at once (which is bannable since you'd have more than two accounts on at one time), go to the HH on each one, grab the BH, get on over to the dungeon, follow each character to the boss, kill the boss, fly each of them back to HH, get reward, open 6 boxes, give mirages to main.

Lots of hassle for 360k a day per alt if you have that many fairy boxes on that many alts.


Since it requires manual labor, having these keys would hinder bot users, as it makes the system more complex to program to the point where a bot can't do said tasks. It's a lot easier making a program/macro to log in alts, open fairy boxes, and rinse and repeat than to log in alts, do a whole BH while having navigation navigate correctly, then open fairy boxes.

I mean, not everyone would TT every day of their lives now would they? Take a few days break and do a BH and rest. I have saved up 200 keys already and I still haven't run a TT since the last x2 before this past weekend's.

hypereccentrik

I've read this whole thread and PW-CN keeps coming up. I understand they are the parent company but we are not them. We don't have much of a bot issue, that I've seen, on the servers I play on.

Teiw - Sanctuary

I *could* probably run 4 pwi clients at the same time. Maybe even 6 on just one computer.

But I wouldn't do that unless there was a change in multiclienting rules. I don't wanna get banned .

If that was allowed (and every player having 6 characters running at once would be silly) that would also be a good solution to this fairy box/bounty hunt problem


(ps. Yeah I've been able to get 6 login windows at once since the earthguard expansion. I literally don't know how, but I didn't modify anything. Been only using up to 2 like a good veno though )

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

hypereccentrik wrote: »

I've read this whole thread and PW-CN keeps coming up. I understand they are the parent company but we are not them. We don't have much of a bot issue, that I've seen, on the servers I play on.

Doesn't matter. PWCN and PWI are the same game. They might have differences in rules, sales, and names of things. Even a few NPCs that are turned on for their version but not ours. But the core content is the still the same. So anything they do to combat bots there is going to affect us here. The DQ price nerf is another excellent example.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Doesn't matter. PWCN and PWI are the same game. They might have differences in rules, sales, and names of things. Even a few NPCs that are turned on for their version but not ours. But the core content is the still the same. So anything they do to combat bots there is going to affect us here. The DQ price nerf is another excellent example.

This.

Another example regarding the NPC deal is the NPC you go to to get Summerwind Tokens for R9r. Because PWCN's market is so different than ours since they don't have rank sales, the option to get R9r via wedding candy is an option for them, since their R9 is the equivalent of us getting R9r via raps and cannies, so to speak.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Well i voted no, to be honest i do more BH than TT so i already have 100 keys + sleeping in my bank.

I know many people having a char for each thing, a char for TT, a char for nirvy, a char for BH, a char for TW, etc... maybe some people should try to play a char for everything or not limited a char only for TT, if you can spend so many time farming in TT you can probably afford time to do 1-2 bh a day + with bh you can get a extra 55 mirages as reward.

Ois - Lost City

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Well i voted no, to be honest i do more BH than TT so i already have 100 keys + sleeping in my bank.

I know many people having a char for each thing, a char for TT, a char for nirvy, a char for BH, a char for TW, etc... maybe some people should try to play a char for everything or not limited a char only for TT, if you can spend so many time farming in TT you can probably afford time to do 1-2 bh a day + with bh you can get a extra 55 mirages as reward.

What if you had to do TT to collect your reward from BH? Would you still feel that way?

Zarni - Dreamweaver

I think it's kinda funny (or sad, maybe) that people like to bring up the argument that it's the same game as PW-CN whenever PWI is modified to make it easier on cash players and harder on farmers. If that were true, then we wouldn't be able to hyper frost, buy r9 from the shop, etc.

It's obvious they aren't the same game. Same company? Yes. Same basic software? Yes. But it is rather obvious that some differences in implementation exist, so the assertion that we simply have to deal with whatever they give us "because that's how it is in PW-CN" is blatantly flawed.

The decisions of what features to implement or change may rest with the chinese parent company, but that doesn't mean those decisions are influenced by anything other than the desire to milk a subsidiary as a cash cow.

For me it's just one more straw on the pile over my already gasping and brokebacked camel. The phrase "nickel and dimed" also comes to mind.


Being rather busy in life, and not having the disposable income to spend thousands of dollars on a game, makes the continuing inflation and additional time-sinks harder and harder to deal with. It feels like they are specifically trying to push people like myself away. That may not be the intention, but the effect is undeniable.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Zarni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think it's kinda funny (or sad, maybe) that people like to bring up the argument that it's the same game as PW-CN whenever PWI is modified to make it easier on cash players and harder on farmers. If that were true, then we wouldn't be able to hyper frost, buy r9 from the shop, etc.

Hyper Frost is a rule difference. AFAIK frost is still an exp instance in China it just isn't as good as the one here.

Rank 9 is a sale item, that isn't a difference in what a mob drops. That's a difference in what they consider it acceptable to sell.

The core content of the game is still the same thing. It really sucks they have to nerf farming because of all the botting going on there. Because there isn't so much botting here. But b:fatb rolls down hill as they say. Still I understand what they are trying to accomplish.

fuzzywuzz

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

stop acting like you get nothing at all without doing BH ><

Fuzzy basically sees this as the answer that sums up this thread.

Both TT and BH on their own reward individual things. (Mats from TT and chips, socket stones, coin cards etc from BH) The drops from TT can be sold on the market to earn a profit. If you get lucky with a BH reward you can make a profit.

Those who only farm Twilight are going to be stuck with a pile of boxes they can't open and those who only run bounty hunts are going to have stacks of useless keys. The others, who run both actually get a bit of a bigger reward for their effort in the way of an extra 36 mirage stones per day for actually participating in more than one single aspect of the game.

The panda sees no problem at all with giving a little extra to those who take larger advantage of what is offered in the way of gameplay instead of running only the same thing, be it BH or TT, and ignoring other aspects.

Want a bigger reward? Pull the finger out and put in a bit of a bigger effort. b:bye

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Ois - Lost City wrote: »

What if you had to do TT to collect your reward from BH? Would you still feel that way?

Not really, you need to do BH to get keys, put you in the place of caster who need to do a BH to get ONE talisman to do 1 caster run. You are a sin there's other way for you to farm, caster have only caster.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Zarni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think it's kinda funny (or sad, maybe) that people like to bring up the argument that it's the same game as PW-CN whenever PWI is modified to make it easier on cash players and harder on farmers. If that were true, then we wouldn't be able to hyper frost, buy r9 from the shop, etc.

Majority of our differences are in the Boutique, which the PWE side has full control of. Well, they get to do the pricing and the sales, the items themselves still need to come from PW-CH. Which means adding stuff is easy, as I'm pretty sure the items have an "exists" part in their definition. Then the GMs here just have to fiddle with that, which is likely done on a separate, simplified interface, e.g. one that accesses the server-side files, reads them and gives a simple, editable list of the items.