Solo defending warsong pavilions

Nenor - Dreamweaver

I can solo fire with n/p. I cant do metal with someone else dragging the head about. I do **** damage on metal pavi. The mobs on fire take maybe 5-9 hits, i can triple spark constant on metal and still loose it.

bladerunnerdm

i noticed the "anti-aps buff" always in wood, but never in earth

maybe it's some kind of regional ability (depending on pavilion), like the monsters hp boost in the whole instance...

the facts from asterelle are directly from client side aipolicity.data and the behavior found there is equal for all monsters from each pavilion

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Im assuming the GM is being sarcastic.

Yep, Warsong defense got a buff, 100% sure.

I used to be able to solo any of the defenses in my sleep. Done a bunch of full warsongs back in the day, recently before the patch.

Now I'm being 1 shot by a head in R9 (no damage shows up on the log, either) while charmed, yadda yadda. The lane mobs after defense seem about the same. Same with the normal bosses.

I've also noticed the death-xp-loss teleport outta the instance is happening WAY more often, along with bugged teleporting mobs that reset HP and etc WAY more often.

Lunar mobs also got a bump too. I used to be able to pull half or all of a valley in my TT99 gear and aoe fine, now in R9 it's difficult. I went to pull Contiguim (spelling?) initial path + all of the center area, and got hit hard. My butt is still sore and that was 2? days ago.
I swear they also have more HP or defenses too, or that was just the squad I was with.

Results? Being more choosy which defense you take in Warsong and just put up with the purges and deaths (and XP loss when you get the error), and resets if someone can't get back fast enough. Pull less mobs in Lunar, so it now just takes longer.

I think I'm mostly upset by the 1 shots from the heads, and the Lunar bump. The 1 shots are annoying...but I miss enjoying lunar, it's not an enjoyable AOE fest anymore that people used to be able to do in TT99. Which sucks, cause of the entry fee.

Although said before, these changes really hurt the people who can't throw tons of money at the game.

Edit: Im seeing anti-aps buff style stuff in all pavilions. The mobs always used to buff themselves at 50%, but it made like zero difference pre-change. Now, I've APS beat on some mobs forever, and had some go down quick. I've just switched to R9 skill spamming as of late.

Empu - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Now I'm being 1 shot by a head in R9 (no damage shows up on the log, either) while charmed, yadda yadda. The lane mobs seem about the same. Same with the normal bosses.

I somewhat find that hard to believe... I usually just tank the head hitting me and only use tackling slash and move a bit the moments I run out of mobs to kill or when he purges me (which I see happen only to 1 person every 2/3 runs really). This is the very reason I usually do water ; I can easily tank the head and water has only little moving space. Heck, I don't even have my charm tick unless I got bad luck on purge or sac strike head. I can't see how a r9 bm could be 1shot.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I somewhat find that hard to believe... I usually just tank the head hitting me and only use tackling slash and move a bit the moments I run out of mobs to kill or when he purges me (which I see happen only to 1 person every 2/3 runs really). This is the very reason I usually do water ; I can easily tank the head and water has only little moving space. Heck, I don't even have my charm tick unless I got bad luck on purge or sac strike head. I can't see how a r9 bm could be 1shot.

Ive had it happen 4 times - Metal, Water, Metal, Wood. Like literally, Ill be full buffed, full HP, charm hasn't ticked, Ill be in full R9 - and then I'm dead, and TPing to the start of the zone (or outside with the error losing XP). I'll have like 1 mob attack recent in the damage log for like 300 damage from one of the mobs (not the head). Ill download fraps and record my next few runs.

Others have complained too. I don't get it. It may be an error with the zone. I have not heard of it happening in Fire, though (Ive defended all of them recently as well).

Empu - Sanctuary

@ Maelael : I've done quite some runs, and never noticed that problem. I usually defend the same pavilion, but never noticed someone with with experience and good gear failing/dying for that kind of reason. I had ppl in squads going from just average to full r9 +10~12 (even recast) and never seen a mysterious 1shot like you mention. Seems heads hate you a lot o.O

Haila - Sanctuary

bladerunnerdm wrote: »

so its better for an r9 archer to fight the mobs with 7k pdef instead 2k pdef?

sometimes it's just easier to admit beeing wrong...

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

....bla bla bla. Please use your braincells you claim to have.

Nenor - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I can solo fire with n/p. I cant do metal with someone else dragging the head about. I do **** damage on metal pavi. The mobs on fire take maybe 5-9 hits, i can triple spark constant on metal and still loose it.

It seems Kawaii has less braincells b:avoid



p.s. sorry about random post

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Fire - Mage
Metal - Archer

It really depends. Personally... I prefer fire over metal... since in fire i don't need to pot or spark, but in metal i'll need the occasional crabmeat. Regarding the other elements... its really a pain in the *** as an archer and I have little room for error.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ive had it happen 4 times - Metal, Water, Metal, Wood. Like literally, Ill be full buffed, full HP, charm hasn't ticked, Ill be in full R9 - and then I'm dead, and TPing to the start of the zone (or outside with the error losing XP). I'll have like 1 mob attack recent in the damage log for like 300 damage from one of the mobs (not the head). Ill download fraps and record my next few runs.

Yea... that happened to me too. One shotted through full r9/cleric/barb/bm buffs. At first I thought it was the head... but its actually from the exploding mobs. Hence its so troublesome for an archer to solo melee elements.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

Haila - Sanctuary wrote: »

It seems Kawaii has less braincells b:avoid



p.s. sorry about random post

More like I stopped caring. If you don't understand what and how blazing arrow works then there is no point in continuing my defense. Just because one archer has a problem doing it, doesn't mean his is the "right" answer. No offense to Nenor but they probably are undergeared or aren't doing something right. I was doing it just fine in old nirvana TT99 gear with just 8k hp buffed without potting or sparking.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

@ Maelael : I've done quite some runs, and never noticed that problem. I usually defend the same pavilion, but never noticed someone with with experience and good gear failing/dying for that kind of reason. I had ppl in squads going from just average to full r9 +10~12 (even recast) and never seen a mysterious 1shot like you mention. Seems heads hate you a lot o.O

Like I said, Ill fraps it on my next few runs, see if I can catch it. I've mostly run with sorta the same crew. One cleric had this problem, one psy, and a seeker as well.

One seeker also got debuffed almost every damn time he went in on one run like 1-2 minutes into entering the area.

Also, don't get me wrong - it's not every time these issues happen. I've defended all 5 without an issue at all since the change. I think I'm close to at least 20 runs since the change between two toons.

I also died 5? times in 2 runs and not gotten the teleport out of the instance error where you lose XP. I also did one run where I died 6 times, and 5 of those times I had the teleport out lose exp error. All of the deaths have been cleric issues...not paying attention, low powered cleric, and lag on their ends. Ive done quite a few runs with zero deaths, totally smooth, I'm pulling and tanking, etc. Id say over half my runs have been 100% smooth.

The zone itself has always been buggy, I just think its gotten buggier.

bladerunnerdm

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

More like I stopped caring. If you don't understand what and how blazing arrow works then there is no point in continuing my defense. Just because one archer has a problem doing it, doesn't mean his is the "right" answer. No offense to Nenor but they probably are undergeared or aren't doing something right. I was doing it just fine in old nirvana TT99 gear with just 8k hp buffed without potting or sparking.

have you ever done fire protection since imperial fury update with your archer? Maybe you should give it a try...

and what does it mean under-geared? so how can an under-geared archer success in fire?

Neodaystar - Sanctuary

I love the new beefed up warsong. It really test the skills of each individual player, not just their class skills, but general survival and game adaptation skills.

Simple things that people never give much thought about can make a big difference...like bring some buff pots or wafers in the event that you are purged, and spam hp foods if you are not charmed.

I squaded with a r8 cleric who solo'ed his pavilion and his head mob was a sacrificial one. Everyone in squad was betting that cleric will not last, but he did it simply knowing how to kite and use plume shell, seal and freeze.

And if you are a sin, there is no excuse that you can not solo any pavilions with your stuns and freeze skills to immobilize range mobs or use deaden nerves to escape form a hit that can kill you.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

bladerunnerdm wrote: »

have you ever done fire protection since imperial fury update with your archer? maybe you should give it a try...

and what does it mean under-geared? so how can an under-geared archer success in fire?

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've run it that way for quite some time with no issues. The metal mobs are physical range which is perfect for archers. The Fire is magic range. The other 3 pavilions are melee physical. I've run it on multiple classes doing the pavilion with the class I recommended just fine -_-

I think I don't even have to answer it. My initial post was a suggestion which you deemed I was stating its a end-all answer by the way you were attacking. I stated for the defensive (less use of pots and charm) why the setup I listed.

bladerunnerdm

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I love the new beefed up warsong. It really test the skills of each individual player, not just their class skills, but general survival and game adaptation skills.

Simple things that people never give much thought about can make a big difference...like bring some buff pots or wafers in the event that you are purged, and spam hp foods if you are not charmed.

I squaded with a r8 cleric who solo'ed his pavilion and his head mob was a sacrificial one. Everyone in squad was betting that cleric will not last, but he did it simply knowing how to kite and use plume shell, seal and freeze.

And if you are a sin, there is no excuse that you can not solo any pavilions with your stuns and freeze skills to immobilize range mobs or use deaden nerves to escape form a hit that can kill you.

omg seems no excuses for me...
b:sad
i was able to protect all pavilions easily with my sin before imperial fury, but after the update with anti-aps, fortify and suicide explosion i can only success earth and if i got a really lucky day wood (more kiting than killing)

now i need my seeker for water and my mystic for fire
b:chuckle

bladerunnerdm

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think I don't even have to answer it. My initial post was a suggestion which you deemed I was stating its a end-all answer by the way you were attacking. I stated for the defensive (less use of pots and charm) why the setup I listed.

this is not war please stop talking about attacking and defending i'm just discussing

and you only wrote that you've done it on multiple classes not which classes which pavilions, so i ask again have you done fire and metal on your archer and claim that metal is recommend for archer over fire?

perhaps not the others are doing something wrong in metal, maybe it's you doing something wrong in fire?

i doubt that blazing arrow will compensate the 4 times higher pdef of metal monsters... btw. fire monsters have 0 metal def, so metal skills works fine there

Haila - Sanctuary

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

More like I stopped caring. If you don't understand what and how blazing arrow works then there is no point in continuing my defense. Just because one archer has a problem doing it, doesn't mean his is the "right" answer. No offense to Nenor but they probably are undergeared or aren't doing something right. I was doing it just fine in old nirvana TT99 gear with just 8k hp buffed without potting or sparking.

I am confused why is the archer suddenly undergeared when she can do fire without problems.
Isn't it better to send the archer to fire pavillion instead of metal b:puzzled

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

bladerunnerdm wrote: »

this is not war please stop talking about attacking and defending i'm just discussing

and you only wrote that you've done it on multiple classes not which classes which pavilions, so i ask again have you done fire and metal on your archer and claim that metal is recommend for archer over fire?

perhaps not the others are doing something wrong in metal, maybe it's you doing something wrong in fire?

i doubt that blazing arrow will compensate the 4 times higher pdef of metal monsters... btw. fire monsters have 0 metal def, so metal skills works fine there

It's more of a debate then a discussion. Which has attacking and defensive tactics in it.

I've done Metal and fire both on my archer. And I've run them both with my cleric. I've run the other 3 pavilions with my sin.

The results I've listed had the best results when I have done them. /shrug

The reason I state I'd rather have the caster on fire over metal is for their charm/pots. Higher mdef then pdef obviously so it would require less usage. Now you could stick a caster in metal. I am not disagreeing with that. But generally I'm in a squad with 1-2 casters 1 cleric 1-2 bm 1 sin and maybe a barb. So sticking an archer against melee mobs is kinda silly. Since I put the caster in fire that leaves the other range pavilion to me. (Metal) Now surprisingly the Blazing Arrow makes up more then you might think. For demon when they freshly use it the get an additional 70% fire damage to their initial 50% for 20 seconds. that's 120% fire damage. Now for an example of a r9 archer with a +12 bow. the Average weapon damage is 3k. 120% of that is 3,600 damage just from fire which won't be reduced. I am sage so I only get 60% which is still 1,800 fire damage. Keep in mind this is before multipliers.

Now you can stick an archer in Fire to spam metal skills sure, but we only have 3. (I don't count Eagleon as one.) Each of them all have a 6-8 second cooldown. You might as well just use auto attack and kill them that way. Now what the archer can do is Aim Low and Stunning Arrow the Hexhead to keep it from chasing you. while you deal with the mobs and then kite it when those are on cooldown. I generally would fight the mobs from the little underhang on the metal pavilion just have to make sure you don't attack them too earlier to draw agro of the apes. (They have shared agro)

bladerunnerdm

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The reason I state I'd rather have the caster on fire over metal is for their charm/pots. Higher mdef then pdef obviously so it would require less usage. Now you could stick a caster in metal. I am not disagreeing with that. But generally I'm in a squad with 1-2 casters 1 cleric 1-2 bm 1 sin and maybe a barb. So sticking an archer against melee mobs is kinda silly. Since I put the caster in fire that leaves the other range pavilion to me. (Metal) Now surprisingly the Blazing Arrow makes up more then you might think. For demon when they freshly use it the get an additional 70% fire damage to their initial 50% for 20 seconds. that's 120% fire damage. Now for an example of a r9 archer with a +12 bow. the Average weapon damage is 3k. 120% of that is 3,600 damage just from fire which won't be reduced. I am sage so I only get 60% which is still 1,800 fire damage. Keep in mind this is before multipliers.

and in fire?
why don't you just post how much you hit a monster in metal (with blazing arrow -> metal monsters have 0 fire def) and with same gear in fire (also with blazing arrow! -> fire monsters have 1800 fire def, but blazing arrow should still increase damage) instead of making calculations and throwing formulas...

my numbers with daggers normal hit: in metal ~2k and in fire ~4.5k

all wizards i know prefer metal over fire to save pots/charm, because they can kill mobs much faster there o.O
none of them would volunteer on monsters with increased fire defense

a tip for fire: much space to kite and nice corners to group mobs for barrage

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

bladerunnerdm wrote: »

and in fire?
why don't you just post how much you hit a monster in metal (with blazing arrow -> metal monsters have 0 fire def) and with same gear in fire (also with blazing arrow! -> fire monsters have 1800 fire def, but blazing arrow should still increase damage) instead of making calculations and throwing formulas...

my numbers with daggers normal hit: in metal ~2k and in fire ~4.5k

all wizards i know prefer metal over fire to save pots/charm, because they can kill mobs much faster there o.O
none of them would volunteer on monsters with increased fire defense

a tip for fire: much space to kite and nice corners to group mobs for barrage

Sure When I get off work I'll show the damage I can apply to them each unbuffed.

Stop specifying all casters as wizards. You won't always have a wizard. My method was for a generic caster class. There are 4 other caster classes -_-.

I can kill the metal mobs before enough of them group to need a barrage -_-

ResMePls - Heavens Tear

Hmmmm I sh0uld l00k int0 Wars0ng t0day.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

ResMePls - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hmmmm I sh0uld l00k int0 Wars0ng t0day.

Be my opener when I get home from work so I can get a damage log. >_>

ResMePls - Heavens Tear

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Be my opener when I get home from work so I can get a damage log. >_>

I will think ab0ut it. Still m0nit0ring y0ur p0st c0unt atm *l00ks ar0und*.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

ResMePls - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I will think ab0ut it.

I know what your thinking. (Though you should change it to you're not your) b:chuckle

ResMePls - Heavens Tear

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I know what your thinking. b:chuckle

Y0u're an archer n0t a psychic >->.


Nah I like it cuz it makes the grammar nazi's have pr0blems sleeping at night.

Xalinor - Heavens Tear

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/darkassaliant/Want_A_Cookie.jpg

T_i_m - Dreamweaver

So melee pav's are a little tougher for melee dd's. I don't think casters will notice much difference. Psychics have the easiest time imo; they should never even be touched by the hexhead.

Someone mentioned lunar mp being harder and I can confirm this is NOT the case. BM still pulls full valleys (except the mp-drainers) with no more difficulty than pre-patch.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

T_i_m - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So melee pav's are a little tougher for melee dd's. I don't think casters will notice much difference. Psychics have the easiest time imo; they should never even be touched by the hexhead.

Someone mentioned lunar mp being harder and I can confirm this is NOT the case. BM still pulls full valleys (except the mp-drainers) with no more difficulty than pre-patch.

I swear I remember it being easier and not dying on large pulls in TT99. But it had also been nearly 4 months since I went there.

EDIT: Anyone know if TheDan is still running Lunar TMs? Tim I can't remember seeing anything from you on those.

Nenor - Dreamweaver

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

More like I stopped caring. If you don't understand what and how blazing arrow works then there is no point in continuing my defense. Just because one archer has a problem doing it, doesn't mean his is the "right" answer. No offense to Nenor but they probably are undergeared or aren't doing something right. I was doing it just fine in old nirvana TT99 gear with just 8k hp buffed without potting or sparking.

Well I am not over powered (we ALL dont have R9 ya know b:scorn) and have TT99 gear/R8/unicorn helm +10/Lunar cape/warsong belt/Lunar neck. Run around 8k hp.

Take off your over powered **** and try it sometime.b:surrender

Btw, i dont use any skills on fire, i point and shoot, on inc life or inc def mobs i usually spark so it goes down quicker. (i take that back.. i use STA on them, and blow back if i need to make chi)

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

T_i_m - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So melee pav's are a little tougher for melee dd's. I don't think casters will notice much difference. Psychics have the easiest time imo; they should never even be touched by the hexhead.

Someone mentioned lunar mp being harder and I can confirm this is NOT the case. BM still pulls full valleys (except the mp-drainers) with no more difficulty than pre-patch.

nope STR build barb do just fine no need to be afraid of anti aps b:pleased

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

Nenor - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well I am not over powered (we ALL dont have R9 ya know b:scorn) and have TT99 gear/R8/unicorn helm +10/Lunar cape/warsong belt/Lunar neck. Run around 8k hp.

Take off your over powered **** and try it sometime.b:surrender

Btw, i dont use any skills on fire, i point and shoot, on inc life or inc def mobs i usually spark so it goes down quicker. (i take that back.. i use STA on them, and blow back if i need to make chi)

I like how you quoted me saying I did it using TT99/Nirvana gear with 8k hp and yet you're telling me to take off my overpowered gear and do it...

Btw unsparked.
was hitting 20ks(no Crits) on metal they died in 7 hits after STA.
was hitting 30k(no Crits) on fire they died in 5 hits after STA.

That is such a big difference