Heavy gear or Light gear :/ ?

ArcherVolant - Archosaur

hi,

some1 can help me pls, i want the build to get a sin witch can solo tt (ex : sin lv60 can solo tt 1-1)

What build should i chose ? my sin is not completly failed just have 59 str 66 dex 5 vit 5 mag

i go pure dex or heavy build for soloing cave like tt ???

thumbs

HA sins are something to laugh at. If you like making people laugh: make HA sin.

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

thumbs wrote: »

HA sins are something to laugh at. If you like making people laugh: make HA sin.

Or if you enjoy putting out the damage of a h&t sin with la as a 3rd cast r9 with heavy

_WoofWoof_ - Lost City

the best sin build you're ever gonna get is: 1 str 4 dex per lvl so cap your str at 104 or 105 if you are going for r9 gear. HA sin is not worth the trouble trust me wear light armor. And most assassins cannot solo TT at level 60, but it's cake on my mystic at 60.

Cinderball - Raging Tide

Pure dex build before 100 is often a bad idea. Unless the sin has the shards and refines to back that build up, they'll end up kissing the floor when a boss so much as glances their way more often than not. The vast majority of lowbie sins are better off with 50+ vit and restatting to pure once they get the coin to get decent gear and refines.

Soloing any TT on a sin won't be very feasible until you get your 3 spark. Even then, you'll almost certainly be limited to single mode TT or portions of 1-x squad mode until you get into endgame territory.

As for going HA, I myself have been a HA sin for the past year and I enjoy it because it suits my CoTD playstyle best. However, its not worth the effort if you want to go for an endgame APS build for farming TT because if you want more defense than LA can offer, you have to drop to a lower APS or be stuck wearing the r8 top and LA wrists + boots or evasion ornaments. No matter what you do, if you want maximum -int, you'll have similar defenses, less damage, and less crit than a LA build. At lower levels, its even worse because you can't get enough +stat adds from gear to wear armor and daggers for your level.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Cinderball - Raging Tide wrote: »

Pure dex build before 100 is often a bad idea. Unless the sin has the shards and refines to back that build up, they'll end up kissing the floor when a boss so much as glances their way more often than not. The vast majority of lowbie sins are better off with 50+ vit and restatting to pure once they get the coin to get decent gear and refines.

Soloing any TT on a sin won't be very feasible until you get your 3 spark. Even then, you'll almost certainly be limited to single mode TT or portions of 1-x squad mode until you get into endgame territory.

As for going HA, I myself have been a HA sin for the past year and I enjoy it because it suits my CoTD playstyle best. However, its not worth the effort if you want to go for an endgame APS build for farming TT because if you want more defense than LA can offer, you have to drop to a lower APS or be stuck wearing the r8 top and LA wrists + boots or evasion ornaments. No matter what you do, if you want maximum -int, you'll have similar defenses, less damage, and less crit than a LA build. At lower levels, its even worse because you can't get enough +stat adds from gear to wear armor and daggers for your level.

Unfortunately the hp gained from adding 50 vit doesn't really outweigh the loss of bloodpaint heals offered by having 50 more dex after about level 60 and for most of us an 8m coin restat for an almost null amount of survivability isn't worth it. After around 60+ your damage and survivability start to catch up and damage output starts healing you and gives you more survivability than having latent hp.

Sins are squishy and they're melee. It's a rough combo but it also forces you to learn how to survive using skill, not hp buffers. Part of this is knowing your class, part of it is taking the time to add +2 - +3 to your gear and shards as your level it and not just neglect gear because you added vitality.

To the OP: your stats are fine. Just don't stat any more strength for the next 35 levels and go all dex. Then keep your str 4 points higher than your level.

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

i have squaded with a HA Light hybrid sin on TT 3-1 . she tanked all bosses , along with GBA , and we did 7 runs in just 1 hourwith some breaks. However she had expert refines on all gear (she was rank8) , and i sensed abit of cashopping on her , though most of thetime it is hard to pull off

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i have squaded with a HA Light hybrid sin on TT 3-1 . she tanked all bosses , along with GBA , and we did 7 runs in just 1 hourwith some breaks. However she had expert refines on all gear (she was rank8) , and i sensed abit of cashopping on her , though most of thetime it is hard to pull off

On harshlands we have a full +12 3rd r9 heavy sin, her damage isn't great but has huge survivabilty in pvp

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

solo 1-1 at 60? sure, just +12 a bunch of armors, weapon and ornies b:cute

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

solo 1-1 at 60? sure, just +12 a bunch of armors, weapon and ornies b:cute

I +10ed my tt60 daggers

Olbaze - Sanctuary

The problem with HA is that it's not a plausible build at lower levels.

For example at level 60, you'd need 182 Dexterity for the TT60 dagger and 152 Strength for the HA of that level. That's a total of 324 stats, but by level 60 you only get 295. And the same keeps going, as daggers tend to require just about 3 Dexterity per level, whereas HA requires about 2.5 Strength. And since you only get 5 stats per level, you're all out of luck. Well, until you get some pretty heavy +strength stuff at the higher levels.

So if you want to level up with HA, you're stuck with one of the following:
a) using lower level armor (which rather defeats the purpose of going HA in the first place)
b) using lower level weaponry (which will make your already **** damage even crappier)
c) hunting for gear with lots of +strength

And restatting to HA at high levels doesn't serve much purpose, unless you happen to have an HA alt with all the gear you need. But in that case, why the hell did you make a sin in the first place?

Cinderball - Raging Tide

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Unfortunately the hp gained from adding 50 vit doesn't really outweigh the loss of bloodpaint heals offered by having 50 more dex after about level 60 and for most of us an 8m coin restat for an almost null amount of survivability isn't worth it. After around 60+ your damage and survivability start to catch up and damage output starts healing you and gives you more survivability than having latent hp.

Sins are squishy and they're melee. It's a rough combo but it also forces you to learn how to survive using skill, not hp buffers. Part of this is knowing your class, part of it is taking the time to add +2 - +3 to your gear and shards as your level it and not just neglect gear because you added vitality.

To the OP: your stats are fine. Just don't stat any more strength for the next 35 levels and go all dex. Then keep your str 4 points higher than your level.

I know that before I acquired my TT70 armor, sharding and refining my armor was a waste of coin because the coin invested was not worth the amount of time it was useful for and the HP from shards and refines didn't stack up to what vit gave. Most people asking for help in the forums are going to be newish players that can't afford to do that sort of thing at those levels. For them, it probably would be better to stat some vit and save their coin to put decent shards and refines in TT or legendary armor they can use for a while.

So having 650 more hp to a 2-4k hp pool from levels 60-90 is almost null survivability? The +2-3 refines and shards on 8x armor give about the same amount so why not just focus only on the weapon instead for more paint heals? Many sins looking for advice end up drawing conclusions along those lines and that is why there are so many BHs and FCs with two shot sins that spend more time dead than attacking. If you are the kind of lowbie sin that is charmed or can spam pots, genie, or apoth when you take aggro to give the cleric time to heal you and the tank time to take aggro or are able to tank yourself, you are fine as a pure build. Otherwise you'll have to hold back on your DDing and the vit build sin will likely end up doing more damage because they can better handle taking aggro.

Bloodpaint becomes good against normal mobs at 59 with 2 spark but it doesn't truly shine for sins in instances before 89 because the bloodsucks alone are just too small to save you from the boss. Having 50 vit is 650 more hp and is a large difference especially for lower levels. Lower level pure dex sins have to hold back most of the time in squads anyways or risk dying so even if the damage loss is large, its not really there in practice. Once you get to 9x, you'll have enough dex to where having 50 vit won't be a large loss of damage anyways and the extra HP won't become negligible until you get your armor to +4-5 refines. You don't really need to restat either until you get enough aps and refines to make the reset worthwhile.

HardToFind - Raging Tide

My answer to the vit question is and always has been that's up to the player.

Some people both new and old may be able to afford sharding and/or adjust their playstyle so they don't end up dying to much.

Not to mention a small hp pool may learn someone to be careful, what to watch out for, how to adept to tough situations and so increase their ability to play, something a vit build won't do.

To me adding vit on a sin is the last resort if you can't adept your playstyle or shard your gear since in the end it will just cost you money.

But in the end there are many arguments for and against vit builds.
So each player has to individually decide on whether to add any for themselves.

Azizsixer - Raging Tide

When it comes to builds i tend to side with the pure builds. Well you can toss in a few extra str here and there to wear better helms or to wear a warsoul helm earlier.

My logic is 650 hp won't really help you all that much at the expense of the dmg and wasting coin on a restat note if you're on a tight budget. If you knw you can afford it easily then by all means go for vit.

I think wayyyy before all the OP fish were around sins learned to control their dd if they couldn't tank the boss. If you can't tank it then just ease off on dd and hit ss or rib.
Sad that loads of higher lvl sins don't even use rib strike.

Went an fc on my bm *lvl 90 nub* and the 90+ sin didn't knw what ribstrike was or what it did -_-

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

Azizsixer - Raging Tide wrote: »

When it comes to builds i tend to side with the pure builds. Well you can toss in a few extra str here and there to wear better helms or to wear a warsoul helm earlier.

My logic is 650 hp won't really help you all that much at the expense of the dmg and wasting coin on a restat note if you're on a tight budget. If you knw you can afford it easily then by all means go for vit.

I think wayyyy before all the OP fish were around sins learned to control their dd if they couldn't tank the boss. If you can't tank it then just ease off on dd and hit ss or rib.
Sad that loads of higher lvl sins don't even use rib strike.

Went an fc on my bm *lvl 90 nub* and the 90+ sin didn't knw what ribstrike was or what it did -_-

Some high lvl sins are stupid I was told not to rib or subsea or power dash in nirvana because it didnt do as much damage

Olbaze - Sanctuary

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »

Some high lvl sins are stupid I was told not to rib or subsea or power dash in nirvana because it didnt do as much damage

I was once told not to use my Sage Rib Strike because the hp debuff nerfs exp... in a squad that had a Bm and an Archer using Deicides.

As for Power Dash and Subsea, that's a bit of a weird territory. For example, Subsea isn't that much better than Extreme Poison, unless it's Sage or Demon version, so using Power Dash there would be better. On the other hand, in a high DPS squad, using Power Dash at all might be a waste: I've experienced using Power Dash only for the boss to die during my channeling because of HF.

And personally, I always prefer to start with Rib Strike, which quite often causes me to miss out on HF since BMs tend to go in, spark, and HF right afterwards.

As for statting vita, I personally didn't do it. My reasoning was pretty clear: before 80ish, you're pretty much only a DD rather than a tank, so the extra vita isn't worth much. After 80, you're in a kind of gray zone until 89, but I don't think statting vita for 9 levels is worth it at all. After 89, your DPS pretty much goes through the roof and you can tank plenty of things without any vita.

thumbs

Only class that gets away with wasting points on vit imo is Barb.

Put points in vit on sin; and you end up spending the coin you saved on gear just to spend it on HP pots and higher repairs while looking at a costly reset down the road. Sins get a pathetic amount of HP from vit.

I don't know how it is on the PvP servers, but after 70's and before 99 it's not worth it to make gear. You can find it second hand pre-sharded and refined cheaper. Now some will reply: But I can't afford the refines and shards ->*face punch*.

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was once told not to use my Sage Rib Strike because the hp debuff nerfs exp... in a squad that had a Bm and an Archer using Deicides.

As for Power Dash and Subsea, that's a bit of a weird territory. For example, Subsea isn't that much better than Extreme Poison, unless it's Sage or Demon version, so using Power Dash there would be better. On the other hand, in a high DPS squad, using Power Dash at all might be a waste: I've experienced using Power Dash only for the boss to die during my channeling because of HF.

And personally, I always prefer to start with Rib Strike, which quite often causes me to miss out on HF since BMs tend to go in, spark, and HF right afterwards.

As for statting vita, I personally didn't do it. My reasoning was pretty clear: before 80ish, you're pretty much only a DD rather than a tank, so the extra vita isn't worth much. After 80, you're in a kind of gray zone until 89, but I don't think statting vita for 9 levels is worth it at all. After 89, your DPS pretty much goes through the roof and you can tank plenty of things without any vita.

squad was pretty average refines around +5-8

Night$aber - Dreamweaver

Arcane ftw \o/.
Ontopic: Heavy armor sucks for a sin.Even a LA claw sin has similar dps to a HA claw sin since higher crit xD.

Geshwur - Raging Tide

HA Sin?

Subtraction - Harshlands

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »

On harshlands we have a full +12 3rd r9 heavy sin, her damage isn't great but has huge survivabilty in pvp

her damage isn't great? it's insane

combined with the increased survivability of HA (as well as all the op sin skills)...

i wouldn't want to be fighting against her :c

Geshwur - Raging Tide

Subtraction - Harshlands wrote: »

her damage isn't great? it's insane

combined with the increased survivability of HA (as well as all the op sin skills)...

i wouldn't want to be fighting against her :c

We had one on RT too, he rolled to LA, and decided recently to go back to Heavy =O

So it's obviously not a bad choice lol

IF you can afford R9 xD

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

If you want to compare or play with it:
Heavy Armor build, 4 aps with -.05 G15s

Light Armor build, 5 aps with -.05 G15s

Used endgame sharding and refines, +10 on armor, +12 on weapon, JoSD where possible, Vit where I couldn't put JoSD.

LA takes about 25% more damage in those calcs, has about 15% less hp, gets 9% more crit, can get an extra -.05 on gear not using TT99 LA for 25% more damage, roughly 20% more dph unsparked, 10% sparked, large accuracy and evasion differences. These are all rough numbers.

Pretty much what you'd expect.

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

Subtraction - Harshlands wrote: »

her damage isn't great? it's insane

combined with the increased survivability of HA (as well as all the op sin skills)...

i wouldn't want to be fighting against her :c

I was kind of just assuming there, she recently hit me for 30k

Demon_troll - Harshlands

i thought ha would be good on sin, i just wanted to use the build like okoeano did... but i start to see fail on it.

Ancris - Archosaur

Demon_troll - Harshlands wrote: »

i thought ha would be good on sin, i just wanted to be an idiot and not use LA like I'm supposed to at lower levels...

Sorry demon...

Just to be on topic though, I'm not into the idea of HA armor on a dex-based class. I prefer being classic and using the customized armor for my class (which is LA in this case)...

Ancris - Archosaur

Demon_troll - Harshlands wrote: »

that cuz la suckz azz -.-

Better writing please, you're not a caveman. Also, I would very much want to see an archer with HA PvPing. Why don't you try it and upload vids of your success...

Granted that sins with an HA build might be a good idea, I might give it a try when I have the resources...

Subtraction - Harshlands

HA sin is perfectly viable

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

HA is viable IF you have the MDEF to back it up. The sins biggest weakness is magic by default. Putting a Sin in HA fruther makes the Magic gap larger. Yes it would be good against other physical classes, but think about the casters and archers. Now we could argue so many conditional situations in eithers favor. I'm just stating purely statistics.

Subtraction - Harshlands

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

HA is viable IF you have the MDEF to back it up. The sins biggest weakness is magic by default. Putting a Sin in HA fruther makes the Magic gap larger. Yes it would be good against other physical classes, but think about the casters and archers. Now we could argue so many conditional situations in eithers favor. I'm just stating purely statistics.

i think ANY melee class' "weakness by default" is a ranged class...

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

Subtraction - Harshlands wrote: »

i think ANY melee class' "weakness by default" is a ranged class...

While yes a ranged class is a melees threat, I'm looking purely at a sin. They have High Dex which allows them to have high evasion which further can help be reduced by Tidal/Focused chance of taking damage from physical attacks. Magic on the other hand can never miss, though can still hit 1 from focused. The fact that magic has one less thing to worry about (not missing) stacked to the fact HA has no magic defense is why I say that. All the other melee classes though have some kind of perk to help them against Magic where as sins kinda don't (unless you count focused which can't always be running)

BM - Magic Marrow

Barb - High amounts of HP and defensive skills

Seeker - High Defense levels

Sin - Focused mind (Though I think most use tidal protection instead so the focused mind bonus from sage/demon isn't much...)

To further the gap most HA will shard Magic defense in their armor where as sins will usually got DoT/cit as they are a DD class. That is why I'm not a fan of HA as a sin. Most will use the TT99 HA ornaments which will give you more pdef and the LA has more Mdef (obviously) then HA. The perks to HA is more HP per refine and that's about it IMO.