Streamlining the early-game experience

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  • knightsdarksoul
    knightsdarksoul Posts: 265
    edited June 2012
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    Maybe increase the Rep gain from quest's as well , Just did a level 81 culti quest on alt . 400 xp and 18 rep.
    I am not sure how either of those amounts are going to help anyone. When you need 4.3mil xp for level and you get 400 xp rewards it's no wonder people see FF as the only option.
    If want people back in the World questing , then make the quests worth doing
  • XEmpressX - Heavens Tear
    XEmpressX - Heavens Tear Posts: 373 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    Lol i don't think it needs to be streamlined at all. It is very simple. A little time consuming having to run from place to place, maybe a cheap 7.0m/s mount could be introduced once you get to the starter cities.
    The main problem is lack of new (and i mean really new, not alts) players to the game. Maybe if mobs from lvl1 - lvl29 spat out a lot more drops this may encourage people to actually do the quests. Maybe, if there is a quest to kill a certain mob, when you kill said mobs, they give more exp/drops than others around you. Not sure how hard this would be to implement, just an idea.
    Oh, and make that Gold Foil matt useable that you get from the chests surrounded by the flower mobs, always wanted to see that get used for something :D
  • Sagek - Sanctuary
    Sagek - Sanctuary Posts: 1,156 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    Arent the first 1 - 30 levels suppose to be what actually sells the game? It seems kinda counter productive to breeze through these levels. Arent those lvls meant to help explain how things work and give some type of tutorial for classes and introduce the player to PWIs methology? Do we really need more lvl 100+'s that have no clue how to do anything or what PWIs world is actually about?

    My personal opinion is that allowing people to breeze through lvls only encourages people to continue to take short cuts and use other means to lvl since it gives the impression that the only enjoyable things are at end game. would be fun if those levels actually taught players something like how to make money, how to use their skills properly, how to utilize the tools that are available to them, etc. in my opinion these things should be taught in game and not left up to the player to google or search through hundereds of post in the forum to find an answer. A que system or mentor system so that it creates actual worth in helping new players would be pretty cool..

    just my 2 cents.
  • BerserkBeast - Sanctuary
    BerserkBeast - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    Another idea could be to put a cheap teleporter in the minese connected to Archosaur...
    The only way to beat a troll is....to troll him back b:angry
  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    lv1-30 isn't really the problem for new players. Personally I'd see 40+ as the real turn off.

    However, on topic I think a damage reduction for mobs around 20-30 couldn't hurt. I always found it strange that a mob hits 100-150 when I'm a lv25 nub with 1k hp and no good skills, and when I'm lv90+ with 6k hp and a wide range of skills, I'm taking maybe 200 damage even in bad gear. Shouldn't a game get harder as you level, not vastly easier? As mentioned before most new players can't afford charms or stacks of potions, or try to save coin, and end up meditating after every 2 kills. Been there myself and it's a pain.

    Travel is the next big one. I think any quests that involve going back and forth across the map when you are below 30 should be removed or the travel shortened.

    But yeah, you really need to look at 40-85 more than anything at the moment. Make FCC 75+ only, boost the rewards on quests (especially for bosses, I barely get asked for help once a month, things like that used to bring a faction together a lot more), add a few more interesting ones and give fb tabs a legitimate reward.
  • MansVisa - Raging Tide
    MansVisa - Raging Tide Posts: 251 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    The spiritual cultivation could stand to be shorter. Especially the part at the mines. Go kill pyrogoths! Go back and kill more pyrogoths! -__-

    Whatever you do please don't touch the kun kun quest, its like one of the best parts!

    It was already made shorter. It's only like 5 mobs now use to be 15-20 b:bye
    Yusiong - Lost City wrote: »
    +2 travel time was always a pain. The only other part I hated was when you started working the culti around Orchid temple. When you have to start collecting the bloodjade grail, core soulgem, and cyan wand those could be easier to obtain a bit I think. I have spent almost an hour and a half killing mobs for just 1 of those drops before.

    Um they all drop now in the first 2 or 3 kills
    SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »
    weird i thought they revamped the 29 culti already


    They did




    Do you really need to make things any easier then they already are?b:sad
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    I will have to agree with many others about traveling. Having to run to the next city was a pretty boring experience. Especially if it required going back and forth.

    I'm speaking from my point of view when I was 1-30. I didn't have any mounts or flying mount, so walking was the only way.
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  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    level limit FF or at least hypers so lower levels would be populated.

    a new player enters the game, and they see no activity they may figure they entered a dead game, and decide to search out more populated pastures.

    nobody gets hooked before level 20, and if you lose them before they reach a hook point, you've lost a customer.

    I do agree with this for the most part.

    However, doing this has a huge risk of making a lot of the older players not wanting to go through the early levels again just to level up another character. Sure some people will be more than willing to do it IF they want to play a new class, but still a lot of people have the mentality of been there done that don't need to, nor want to go through all that again. Therefore that's why we see a LOT of people using fcs to level up their 'new' char, simply bypassing the annoying/aggravating levels to navigate.

    Things are bound to become repetitive, and rather tedious to old, and new players alike. Right now that seems to be the only motivation that keeps people coming back for more is the slightly different feel, and the fact of a new challenge on how to best play their new class. Right now as it is way too many people skip the early quests (as it has been implied in this thread already) causing the quest areas to become deserted, and we have level 80ish chars just coming in to finish up their old culti in a place they surpassed/out leveled long ago. Not many people really like going through quests twice that they just completed a day or two ago.

    Also that persons opinion about the original races... and the hardness of their early quests is all too true.

    ...

    I am not saying that pwi shouldn't revamp the early quest line... but they most definitely need to tread carefully revamping it.

    One thing that would be interesting to see... is if once we hit 19 we would be 'blocked' from leveling up anymore until we finished a quest (different for each and every single class... like an instance where they have to go in and finish alone, maybe even with a mini boss at the end. (just please make it doable for them at lvl 19 alone... charmless xD) This could even continue on all the way until lvl 59 or something. (I am not talking about the fb's either... NEW places... where their skill gets tested a bit. xD
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  • Selak - Dreamweaver
    Selak - Dreamweaver Posts: 462 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    After raising chars from over 2 years ago, and raising the alts today,
    the best suggestion requiring the least modification is the idea of a ride from one of the other posters.
    Speaking from personal experience this would have improved the start a lot for me at least, by reducing the time taken to achieve Lvl 30 without changing the game play.

    Oh and please remove/replace the leap quest, its to hard for beginners and has caused me to take breaks from some chars, almost giving up working on the char at times such as my wizard.
    You have to run into empty space to leap, most new players get sick of trying to find the point to leap because it is in empty space, and the timer which maniac thought that up.
    b:laughb:laughb:laugh
    There are old Warriors, and bold Warriors,
    but there are very few old bold Warriors. b:chuckle
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    I'm going to name another game...but it's old and not even an MMO: Diablo 2.

    Players were willing to play through the first few levels over and over on different classes, or at least I was, why? Because it was simply a good experience every time. There were cool items that could drop for different classes, monsters and bosses could be approached differently for different classes, overall it was good to play over and over.

    That is sort of what I want to see with this game's pre-end game gameplay. Make more interesting items drop, make quest rewards cool and relevant. Implement better adds in the newbie gear such as -chan, zerk, -int. Zerk is especially something cool i liked in my lowbie 3star weapons but that was so rare. Zerk 3star axes, spears, swords would all be awesome.

    Implement ways to reroll 3star adds...(so i can get my zerk 3star collection) I remember playing through the early levels with 5 out of the 6 original classes, and they were fun in their own way at first, but killing 30, 40, 50 of the same mobs later got boring. Make cool things drop out of the mobs so people feel good about killing hundreds of them. Doesn't have to be like R9 molds or some overpowered ****, but cool things for lowbies to have.
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  • Sagek - Sanctuary
    Sagek - Sanctuary Posts: 1,156 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    Selak - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Oh and please remove/replace the leap quest, its to hard for beginners and has caused me to take breaks from some chars, almost giving up working on the char at times such as my wizard.
    You have to run into empty space to leap, most new players get sick of trying to find the point to leap because it is in empty space, and the timer which maniac thought that up.
    b:laughb:laughb:laugh

    You know when I first started playing PWI, I actually was so happy about the jumping quest I litterly spent the next 60 lvls waiting for another quest like this and than realized that was it and was very sad. =(

    I agree though it took me forever to finally figure it out.
  • Xae_ - Archosaur
    Xae_ - Archosaur Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    I've made more characters and spent more hours in this game than I should say, sometimes spending 15 or more hours in it at a time. I've made so many characters that now I can go from 1 - 20 in just a couple of hours, without rushing, doing all the quests. I agree that the jumping quests are a pain, though not for elves obviously b:chuckle, and the lvl 29 culti takes freaking forever, but where I would love to see changes is in the higher lvls. Not lvl 90+ but in the 50-95 range. When you have to kill 70 mobs at lvl 70 and get like 10k or less exp, well, thats why you get so many who don't even bother. My in game husband and I happen to enjoy doing the quests, but lately we've been doing some lvl 90+ one on our alts and :P .... We ask ourselves, is this really worth it to people who don't enjoy doing them like us?
  • Ow - Dreamweaver
    Ow - Dreamweaver Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    I think that they're already streamlined to be honest...

    but then again, I've been playing for a few years now, before BH's and such.

    Now I can get 1-30 in a day, especially with the lowered quest kills.

    I also don't find anything particularly hard. The culti from 21-29 is long... but there's also quests like the Ladywraith quest that you can couple with it to get a lot more exp.
  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    MansVisa - Raging Tide wrote: »
    It was already made shorter. It's only like 5 mobs now use to be 15-20 b:bye

    It's the travelling that back and forth that takes up most of the time. Not necessarily the amount of mobs. 15 mobs isn't so bad. It's go the go kill that pyrogoth, now go kill a pyrogoth again! Part that that ticks people off. If it auto-updated it wouldn't be so bad. But as it is now it takes forever regardless if they reduced the amount of mobs.

    edit:

    And I personally love the leap quests. And it would behoove lowbies to develop strategies for jumping over difficult stuff because some of the instance platforms are raised to a ridiculous level. If they know the jump forward/double jump trick its gonna be less irritating.
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  • tientiensuser
    tientiensuser Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    In the past, we were more willing to put up with the grindiness and tedious tasks because there were few other MMOs to compare it against. But PW has like more than 10 games on their front page. So players have more freedom to be more picky. MMOs used to have permadeath and no way to instantly travel between areas. Now we got teleport crystals and durability loss.
  • Selak - Dreamweaver
    Selak - Dreamweaver Posts: 462 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    Sorry i was not clear about leap quest I meant remove/replace from under LvL 30
    I agree that all players will need to learn the skill at some time, and for those of us who have done it at least once its great fun when we do it on our alts,
    but I also remember when I was a real new player, the frustrating number of times it took before I got the high of success, and feel this may be a major stumbling point for the real new players with no faction or friends yet to help as I was then.
    Anyway it was just a thought.

    There are 2 leap quests in Etherblade the first from the rock is a pain, but the second one still teaches you all you need without giving the new player a major stumbling block so early in the game.
    There are old Warriors, and bold Warriors,
    but there are very few old bold Warriors. b:chuckle
  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    Selak - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Sorry i was not clear about leap quest I meant remove/replace from under LvL 30
    I agree that all players will need to learn the skill at some time, and for those of us who have done it at least once its great fun when we do it on our alts,
    but I also remember when I was a real new player, the frustrating number of times it took before I got the high of success, and feel this may be a major stumbling point for the real new players with no faction or friends yet to help as I was then.
    Anyway it was just a thought.

    Over level 30 and they will just fly and dig the chest. :P Not that winged elves don't get this privilege already but it'd be utterly pointless if everyone did. Just get a quest called gimme a charm.
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    Thanks Silvy for the superb sig <3

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  • MageMERC - Harshlands
    MageMERC - Harshlands Posts: 1,600 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    Firstly good job Frankieraye for trying to get the player base involved.

    I think the idea of streamlining is difficult now with Lucid Envoy, Earthguard and normal quests all thrown into the mix. I think, for example, just doing the Earthguard quests is very streamlined and if you do them in order they really flow together, but when you jump levels and go to different areas you lose this flow.

    I have recently levelled a seeker and could get to level 30 doing only Earthguard quests in a couple hours. I havent quested since because of fc, bh and cs and hyper stones. I would however go out and do quests if the rewards were worth it.

    With the change in the dynamic of the game and the ease of levelling, personnaly I think you should reduce the number of quests across all levels and vastly increase the xp/sp/rep/coin or other rewards per quest. Nothing is more exciting when killing mobs to see cool stuff drop but the drop rates according to pwdatabase and my own experience are attrocious. Like Ive killed many hundred mobs practising vortexing on my seeker recently and never seen a secret letter for example.

    This is the change Id like to see and it would affect all levels.
  • Lenestro - Sanctuary
    Lenestro - Sanctuary Posts: 490 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    I dunno... I was very VERY new to mmos when I started this game and I knew virtually nothing about things like squad mechanics and even second hand usage of WASD keys.I considered the first 40 levels boring but if I had jumped in at level 40 I would have quit because of everyone telling em how much I sucked.

    But then again, I always had someone nearby to squad with and meet, not to mention a good faction to help me with bosses, so maybe other people are just having a different low level experience than I did with everyone around them powerleveling.

    Maybe the answer isnt to make low levels easier, but to bring them back to what they used to be.
  • _WoofWoof_ - Lost City
    _WoofWoof_ - Lost City Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    IMO the 29 culti is far too long for new players b:surrender maybe cut out some things?
    fudge da police b:shutupb:bye
  • /ork - Harshlands54
    /ork - Harshlands54 Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    DO NOT be fooled people, they just want people to become end game level quicker, because that is where you will (potentially) spend more money! I will bet their pockets are already starting to hurt since there are MAJORLY anticipated games hitting this year from OTHER companies! Not to mention all their MAJOR ****-ups like the FCC/FC/FF glitch with all that scum playerbase that CHEATED to level 105, bet again they really don't care because that will potentially bring them in more money!

    Don't fall into their traps, this is a LOUSY company (they receive an F at the BBB - http://www.bbb.org/greater-san-francisco/business-reviews/internet-gaming/perfect-world-entertainment-in-redwood-city-ca-375623) and this game IS DYING (slowly). They will milk it for every penny they can though before physically 'pulling the plug' :( Get out now while you still can...
  • _WoofWoof_ - Lost City
    _WoofWoof_ - Lost City Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    /ork - Harshlands wrote: »
    DO NOT be fooled people, they just want people to become end game level quicker, because that is where you will (potentially) spend more money! I will bet their pockets are already starting to hurt since there are MAJORLY anticipated games hitting this year from OTHER companies! Not to mention all their MAJOR ****-ups like the FCC/FC/FF glitch with all that scum playerbase that CHEATED to level 105, bet again they really don't care because that will potentially bring them in more money!

    Don't fall into their traps, this is a LOUSY company (they receive an F at the BBB - http://www.bbb.org/greater-san-francisco/business-reviews/internet-gaming/perfect-world-entertainment-in-redwood-city-ca-375623) and this game IS DYING (slowly). They will milk it for every penny they can though before physically 'pulling the plug' :( Get out now while you still can...

    get out now while i still can? u should be an actor u know...in a dramatic movie b:pleased

    is becoming endgame level quicker a bad thing? o.o
    fudge da police b:shutupb:bye
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    frankieraye wrote: »
    We're looking to streamline the early game experience (levels 1-30), and we'd like your input regarding your own experience as you made your way though this level bracket. Do you recall any specific stumbling blocks that you think could be ironed out? Are there any areas within this bracket that you constantly have to help noobs with?

    All feedback is appreciated :)

    No, really specific stumbling blocks not exist.

    Lucidsilver Agent offer Lucidsilver Chests for those who have reached Lv5, 15, and 25 , as well as those who have earned Spiritual Adept, Aware of Principle, and Aware of Harmony (lv 9, 19, 29) .

    Also cultivations chains are very interesting in comparison with common and heroic quests.


    Those who don't want to play, cry in WC for power leveling in FC since level 1.
  • Banndit - Heavens Tear
    Banndit - Heavens Tear Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    Lvl 1-30 was fun during the first yr, but for a newbie these day, the culti, travel time, and the mini boss is a bit too much, even for me when I made my last alt with my main DD-ing most of the time.

    Off topic, for the game to be more fun and attractive for newbies, this is how I imagine things to be.

    Increase the cost of hyper stone greatly but reducing the cost at around lvl 70+ by getting access to certain quest to reduce cost and further discounted when players are lvl 80+.

    To lvl from 1-80
    1. Quest to lvl 30 with with suggestions updated and be in a under lvl 50 guild.
    2. Squade grind to lvl 40 by getting a squade quest from a npc to increase xp as squade number increases.
    3. Bh 29 from lvl 40 to lvl 50
    4. Do Goshiki quest from lvl 50 to lvl to 60. and save Goshiki. lol
    5. From lvl 60 -70, players are stuck here for a minimum of 2 weeks, but this will be more fun then the last 60 lvl. For players, this will be the 10 lvl get give them a chance to get to know most of the game.
    6. Option to squade with lvl 70-79 for better xp to lvl 80.

    During (5) lvl 60-70, for pw, this could be an oportunity to introduce and advertise players to the game more effectively. Its possible pw could learn more about players here as they can simplify things by gathering datas of players of likes and dislikes therefore, pw might make better endgame decision, which could mean higher profit and fun without one interfering with the other.

    If new contents are added for (5) lvl 60-70, players can learn alot and really get into the game by playing around with gears, refinement, pve from bh 51 and pvp. These content are for promotional purpose therefore should not interfere with endgame in anyway except promote endgame activity. With that in mind, players will do things like tt60 to get their non tradable gears and also refinement for them which will be available progressively as they lvl from 60-70. People will want to do their bh51 not just because they want xp but because they want to try out their new improve gears from these refinement. Pvp players will have a map to pvp without lose and also want to pvp to try out their new improve gears. Might be a good idea to limit refinement to +7 or so.

    Some other random thoughts.
    - Pw create good mobs and boss but nature created disirable profitable players which pw cannot create but only help develope. Developing players can generate more money in some circumstances.
    - ability to hyper from 1-80 quickly by power lvl cost pw money. Existing contents available to lvl players quickly make pw money but additonal content could go along way.
    - low lvl players and newbies need a guild.
  • MeyLiang - Sanctuary
    MeyLiang - Sanctuary Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    What's there to be streamlined at said lvl range at all? Just put a lvl cap of 75+ to fcc and that's it!

    Nowadays people just fcc their toons to lvl 100 anyways, so, why bother? b:shutup
  • MeyLiang - Sanctuary
    MeyLiang - Sanctuary Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    _WoofWoof_ - Lost City wrote: »
    get out now while i still can? u should be an actor u know...in a dramatic movie b:pleased

    is becoming endgame level quicker a bad thing? o.o

    Of course it is... what kind of question is that? >.>
  • CroPsy - Heavens Tear
    CroPsy - Heavens Tear Posts: 476 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    One annoying thing at any level, but specially at low levels are mobs that runs away. It's fun to chase KunKun for 5 min, but it's not fun to chase 20-40 mobs just to finish some quest.
    It's easier for ranged classes, but for melee it's really annoying.

    And it would be nice to fix mobs in BH59, so they can't climb walls.
  • Esnemyl - Dreamweaver
    Esnemyl - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,079 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    MeyLiang - Sanctuary wrote: »
    put a lvl cap of 75+ to fcc and that's it!

    ^ This - so, so this.
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    I felt the spirit culti was fine, it's just nowadays people only do the spirit culti as they have already leveled to 60+ through FCCs so it's actually the only part people still are required to complete.

    I know many players have a slightly difficult transition going from their home town to Archosaur.

    Many run out of quests to do at level 19 and the trigger for archo is at 20 I believe. Maybe have a few 17-19 level quests worth huge exp to give them that bump to 20 where they suddenly get a ton of quests to continue with.

    Also, with the starting towns being so scarce its near impossible to find help with fb19 cultis for new players. Only if you're established in the game can you find help with those.

    Going from a hometown like Plume or Etherblade which are deserted to Archo, which is chaos, was a little overwhelming. My first time there it took me over an hour to find the npc through the catshops (I didn't know about auto pathing back then, but Archo is even more cluttered now).

    I remember 26-30 (30 has the wings and the rank gear so used to be a goal for me) was really slow leveling. I agree with earlier posters that part of the problem is running to the mines (a long way), back, back to the mines, back...

    I know many people make BMs for fists, but are forced to use axes and poles since that's what the quest rewards and better items are until 22. I'm not looking for more -int, and realistically the difference between axe and fist at that level is null, I just think they'd like the option.

    I wonder if giving barbs, or any class, a home town "free repair" NPC would help balance the classes being created and encourage more barbs.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Cotillion - Dreamweaver
    Cotillion - Dreamweaver Posts: 671 Arc User
    edited June 2012
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    I really wouldn't change much.....speaking as someone who has 7 characters who've gone through this, even.
    Lowering the quest mob amounts was a bad change as it is.
    I agree with the Archo running, however. Instead of mass-grouping the kills into one hit-list for the trip out the the mines, why not move the NPC's out there somewhere? Or make new NPC's for the non-movable ones (Archo elder, etc..) and give the quests ot them out there?
    Or give the quests to the NPC's in Wellspring or Tradewind (shorter travelling distance).
    Some people like reading quests.....unbelievable as it may seem to those who click thru everything....but that would satisfy both. Shorter distance, and quests/story/chain still intact.

    1-30 I don't find bad...except the lack of other people around and the ability to breeze through it. The power levelling options are directly responsible for this. These seriously need to be scaled back in some way. Also....mob and boss quests should have a squad level limit......like if anyone in squad for Farng is over level 50, it doesn't count (scaled levels for various bosses/mini-bosses/quests). This prevents people from having the game handed to them on a silver platter having anyone one shot everything.

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