HA Venomancer

Zorish - Harshlands

Hey there,

I've seen a sticky guide, but seems quite outdated I think, and it's kinda hard to read through 50 pages of posts.

Is there any standard builds available?

Some items that are Must Have?

I know there's Requiem Blade, but since we're making it easily to 100s, what do you exactly need? Are Venos needed as HA users?

Currently my STR is 141 and 250ish Magic and 33 Dex without items.

What should I try to get?

What is the best combination of Arcane / HA.

Venos can't go 5 APS... so what to get? Do we still hit in fox form, we got magic use?

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

there is no standard build because the build is dependent on extra stat points, if you keep you keep all you gear current with your level.

items with a lot of stats - rings, neck and belt, helmet, cape, tome.

the strongest weapon you can equip since your magic, and therefore magic attack is lower, venos are not needed by others to be any specific armor type, as long as you stay alive, you can debuff and purge, HA just allows you to survive more physical damage. try to skip the requiem blade. rank 6 is decent but is a dead end, lunar wand or sword is decent and can be nirvana'ed later on, tt100 is also pretty decent, if you buy the red mat from someone lucky. pataka's have a lower physical attack speed, so skip them if you cant, even though r8 will give you the best attack for the price.

your stats depend on your stat gear

imo combining the armor sets is a bad idea, refine your magic ornaments/rings for more magic defense. keeping 2nd set of AA to be used in specific situations, like where you need a lot of channeling, but you will be wearing HA most of the time.

im going to pretend you didnt ask that last question b:scorn

Marengo - Lost City

Zorish - Harshlands wrote: »

Venos can't go 5 APS... so what to get? Do we still hit in fox form, we got magic use?

Veno is always a magic user. HA is for better defence only. You will debuff in fox form and hit in human like any other venos do.

I'd recommend to hit 100 in arcane robe, its easier, and after that think what build to choose.

krisnda

Zorish - Harshlands wrote: »

Venos can't go 5 APS... so what to get? Do we still hit in fox form, we got magic use?

Well, they technically can, but it's dumb to think about. b:victory

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Veno is always a magic user. HA is for better defence only. You will debuff in fox form and hit in human like any other venos do.

I'd recommend to hit 100 in arcane robe, its easier, and after that think what build to choose.

HA isnt defense only, just primarily, if you build it right you can actually do more damage in fox than as a caster.

Zorish - Harshlands

Ok, so... In that case I guess I need to lvl first at 100 then worry about others stuff.

Mostly I wanted to be sure about which weapon use, since that is my first concern. I know it has to be magic one, but was more insecure about the amount of magic needed.

Now I have some ideas. I already have some rings with Dex on them, they go cheap since most classes don't use it.

Will take a look at the advices.

I'll FC a bit more to gain more lvls and skills eheh.

It will take time, I'm really poor right now!

akosireann

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

HA isnt defense only, just primarily, if you build it right you can actually do more damage in fox than as a caster.

Funny what myths still persist after Solandri posted his antiquated calculations eons ago.

Hello this is the age of R9 and R8 recast...with all that BS saying that HA> Pure mag DPS wise still doubt it now with DOrb sales, better refines, better shards

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

i wonder how a HA veno (that doesnt use claws) has been the #1 veno in tiger 8 out of the last 10 weeks on HT then.

akosireann

Funny how some TW facs relegate HA venos for debuffers while the pure builds one or twoshot even some high end R9's

Funny how hard it is for a HA veno to get into caster unless she cheats and wear arcane gear.

Funny how some venos end up tanking some caster bosses even with psys and wizzies on squad (prolly fail built vit mag for the other casters but still venos should not be tanking considering we are ''weak nukers'')b:chuckle

Funny i oneshot a fellow veno with a mixed HA-AA build without even sparking b:laugh and she's 10 levels above me

Yup HA is the way to go...to fail

Edit: to the op, just make sure you're pet at the very least is not below 5 levels below you due to fc'ing. Choosing a not so really fine build like HA with somewhat, alright definitely weaker mag heals already shoots you in the foot on the pet survival department unless you compromise with chan gear. Don't shoot the other foot again with a really weak pet

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

akosireann wrote: »

Yup HA is the way to go...to fail

A bit biased are we ?

akosireann

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A bit biased are we ?

Um, sorry but I still have to see a HA veno dominate anything other than one weekly event

Checking RT's damage test roster...Nope the top veno there ain't HA.

Checking the top PK venos in my servers...not surprised almost all are pure mag with the occasional vit mag caster.

Now what was again an HA veno good for?

Zorish - Harshlands

akosireann wrote: »

Um, sorry but I still have to see a HA veno dominate anything other than one weekly event

Checking RT's damage test roster...Nope the top veno there ain't HA.

Checking the top PK venos in my servers...not surprised almost all are pure mag with the occasional vit mag caster.

Now what was again an HA veno good for?

It was my understanding that venos are debuffers and support class. Where all of your foxform kit is something like purge, amp, accuracy reduction, survival is more important than simply doing pure damage. For that just roll an Archer, or hey, even cleric since they have a sleep.

If you're just using only your human form skills, aren't your reducing your target of possibles scenarios where you might be useful?

That's what I see in HA. If I really wanna solo, I'll just level a freaking sin and that's it, way faster than a veno.

I can see you can nuke people, that's awesome. What else can you do besides that? Are you nuking people only if you get the first hit? Or can you survive if they get the first hit?

Nuking it's like, you know, everything. I'm looking for valid and consistent argument where your utility>your damage. If we're looking for damage, then you, you're right (maybe)

And your quote about killing a fellow HA/AA (which actually no one suggested that, they all said go pure HA and refines your rings), what equip are we talking? What grade of refines? I can one shot a sin lvl 105 if he has no equip on him! It's like saying "I'm the proest on my server, but I won't tell you my name"

Desdi - Sanctuary

Well, I think the build really depends on the player itself. I think HA is a good build, if you do it right. It has a different purpose and use than AA one though. It has other advantages and other disadvantages.

The thing now is just that OP gear is available, better refines are cheaper etc. so the HA build may be a little outdated since AA/Pure Mag venomancers can get high HP and high defences, both physical and magical, whereas in the past it was really hard to achieve that.

This is not to say HA is useless but HA (and previously LA) was a choice for venomancers(and wizards and clerics when it comes to LA) who wanted to get HP/defences. Now that this can be achieved with a AA build too, I know and I've heard of many people who restated to AA or are going to do so (mainly due to rank 9).

Zorish - Harshlands

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well, I think the build really depends on the player itself. I think HA is a good build, if you do it right. It has a different purpose and use than AA one though. It has other advantages and other disadvantages.

The thing now is just that OP gear is available, better refines are cheaper etc. so the HA build may be a little outdated since AA/Pure Mag venomancers can get high HP and high defences, both physical and magical, whereas in the past it was really hard to achieve that.

This is not to say HA is useless but HA (and previously LA) was a choice for venomancers(and wizards and clerics when it comes to LA) who wanted to get HP/defences. Now that this can be achieved with a AA build too, I know and I've heard of many people who restated to AA or are going to do so (mainly due to rank 9).

That's a good reason and a nice justification for AA. At end game, I've seen a 16K HP veno, with all +10 refines, which makes sense to go pure arcane, you still get the job done with awesome damage.
It's a nice reason why NOT to be HA/LA. Thanks for input! I'm still poor and low lvl, but I'll get there.

akosireann

Zorish - Harshlands wrote: »

It was my understanding that venos are debuffers and support class. Where all of your foxform kit is something like purge, amp, accuracy reduction, survival is more important than simply doing pure damage. For that just roll an Archer, or hey, even cleric since they have a sleep.

If you're just using only your human form skills, aren't your reducing your target of possibles scenarios where you might be useful?

That's what I see in HA. If I really wanna solo, I'll just level a freaking sin and that's it, way faster than a veno.

I can see you can nuke people, that's awesome. What else can you do besides that? Are you nuking people only if you get the first hit? Or can you survive if they get the first hit?

Nuking it's like, you know, everything. I'm looking for valid and consistent argument where your utility>your damage. If we're looking for damage, then you, you're right (maybe)

Um, veno just debuffers and support?

Veno is debuff, support and damage.

I still use my fox skills even in arcane robes and still survive aoe's even wearing robes. It's all about the sharding and refines you do to your gears. All my debuff skills are level 8 atm on my current veno (level 67 in PWI) and she still manages to live through amping wyv even during some aoe's.

Surviving hits? Yes I still can! See response above.

HP increase? Shards and refines still.

What use is your so called survival if squad wise you cannot quickly bring down to 0 the life of whatever mob or boss you're killing and just rely on ''support skills'' (hate that word)

Too bad you did not say what skill level you have right now...but judging you are still planning to go HA i say not much.

Edit: thanks alot for adding the gear options desdi, was about to add that too. There's too many nice things going on to AA pure build now that HA is almost dead on the water atm

KeneticNRG - Lost City

akosireann wrote: »

All my debuff skills are level 8 atm on my current veno (level 67 in PWI) and she still manages to live through amping wyv even during some aoe's.

Im Sorry i Stopped reading when i seen this LMFAO

We are talking about ENDGAME build, if your giving bias remarks about a class u have only playing to 6x my god..

akosireann

KeneticNRG - Lost City wrote: »

Im Sorry i Stopped reading when i seen this LMFAO

We are talking about ENDGAME build, if your giving bias remarks about a class u have only playing to 6x my god..

I have a 101 demon veno main tysm, thanks for reminding. Played her for nearly a year and encountered nearly all types of venos squaddable.

Was about to add that one of the best venos around, Solandri still posts with a barb avi below 100? I'd gasp on that

Zorish - Harshlands

akosireann wrote: »

Um, veno just debuffers and support?

Veno is debuff, support and damage.

I still use my fox skills even in arcane robes and still survive aoe's even wearing robes. It's all about the sharding and refines you do to your gears. All my debuff skills are level 8 atm on my current veno (level 67 in PWI) and she still manages to live through amping wyv even during some aoe's.

Surviving hits? Yes I still can! See response above.

HP increase? Shards and refines still.

What use is your so called survival if squad wise you cannot quickly bring down to 0 the life of whatever mob or boss you're killing and just rely on ''support skills'' (hate that word)

Too bad you did not say what skill level you have right now...but judging you are still planning to go HA i say not much.

Edit: thanks alot for adding the gear options desdi, was about to add that too. There's too many nice things going on to AA pure build now that HA is almost dead on the water atm

Actually I'm lvl 84, as you can see on my avatar. I'm just asking question to high lvl and experienced players that were able to see the differences.

If refining +12 is possible, then no need to go HA, but at low lvls, or lower lvls TW that might be a decent option.

I now have many points in STR, so it might be useful to keep being HA until I cant buy reset and stuffs

Desdi - Sanctuary

Edit: thanks alot for adding the gear options desdi, was about to add that too. There's too many nice things going on to AA pure build now that HA is almost dead on the water atm

Indeed. I see less and less HA venomancers lately while it used to be such a popular build.

I did try too on an alt venomancer but I stopped playing her at lvl 75 because I figured that wasn't for me. I'm glad I did not try it out on my actual venomancer, it would have been such a mess. It was a nice experience nevertheless but just not for me.

Myself, I have 30VIT points which I want to put into magic thus ending up with a pure mag build but I'm still improving on my gear at the moment and I won't restat until I have over 6k HP without the vit points. Things get slower with college, I'm looking forward summer b:chuckle

Zorish - Harshlands

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Indeed. I see less and less HA venomancers lately while it used to be such a popular build.

I did try too on an alt venomancer but I stopped playing her at lvl 75 because I figured that wasn't for me. I'm glad I did not try it out on my actual venomancer, it would have been such a mess. It was a nice experience nevertheless but just not for me.

Myself, I have 30VIT points which I want to put into magic thus ending up with a pure mag build but I'm still improving on my gear at the moment and I won't restat until I have over 6k HP without the vit points. Things get slower with college, I'm looking forward summer b:chuckle

And that's what I needed ^^ Confirmation. Thanks. I just need to get good gear, grind some coins (this is hard) and restat those STR and Dex points and go into pure build!

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

akosireann wrote: »

Funny how some TW facs relegate HA venos for debuffers while the pure builds one or twoshot even some high end R9's

Funny how hard it is for a HA veno to get into caster unless she cheats and wear arcane gear.

Funny how some venos end up tanking some caster bosses even with psys and wizzies on squad (prolly fail built vit mag for the other casters but still venos should not be tanking considering we are ''weak nukers'')b:chuckle

Funny i oneshot a fellow veno with a mixed HA-AA build without even sparking b:laugh and she's 10 levels above me

Yup HA is the way to go...to fail

Edit: to the op, just make sure you're pet at the very least is not below 5 levels below you due to fc'ing. Choosing a not so really fine build like HA with somewhat, alright definitely weaker mag heals already shoots you in the foot on the pet survival department unless you compromise with chan gear. Don't shoot the other foot again with a really weak pet

funny how haters gonna hate

Marengo - Lost City

akosireann wrote: »

Yup HA is the way to go...to fail

You didnt count an option that a plyer might have another HA class on the account

Zorish - Harshlands wrote: »

If refining +12 is possible, then no need to go HA,

Depends. If you work in party mainly, HA is not the worst choice (worst is LA b:avoid). It has higher HP and pdef, its less vulnerable to physical damage. Whats frustrating - you won't be able to kill 1v1 anyone (or hardly or accidentaly). If it doesn't fuss you, go HA. But arcane is more profitable because of its flexibility. You can gain more hp restating into full vit and enhance pdef getting and refinenig pdef rings and can restat back for more attack any moment.

but at low lvls, or lower lvls TW that might be a decent option.

100% no. At lower lvls HA is pure waste. Lacking stats badly makes you wear weap 10lvls below or choose armor with lower requirements (this means lack of really good bonuces). This leads to fail hp (all stats are in str and dex), low attack, fail mdef and pdef is still not brilliant (its low lvls, remember )

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

You don't even need a magic weapon to be effective in a squad.

With no magic weapon you can still: amp, purge, ironwood debuff, pass sparks, bramble, sage soul degen, self heal hp/mp. That's plenty for what people want a veno to do... it's not like venos were ever known for having strong wood attacks to begin with.

I have a troll veno that subscribes to this and has only 3 mag. Shes pure dex though and kills stuff with my old g15 nirv bow.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

have you ever done the bad thing and shot arrows out of her nose? b:chuckle

akosireann

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

You don't even need a magic weapon to be effective in a squad.

With no magic weapon you can still: amp, purge, ironwood debuff, pass sparks, bramble, sage soul degen, self heal hp/mp. That's plenty for what people want a veno to do... it's not like venos were ever known for having strong wood attacks to begin with.

I have a troll veno that subscribes to this and has only 3 mag. Shes pure dex though and kills stuff with my old g15 nirv bow.

No wonder it's a troll build, it's an archer with fur.

No mag weps for a veno? Only basically living in a squad for ''support skills''? Aren't those basically selling youself just as a debuff/support ho? That's giving more venos a bad name in the long run

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

I went HA because back in the old days when barbs actually tanked, they needed sparks. This was because bosses lasted longer than 8 seconds so barbs needed to spam flesh ream to keep aggro. On World Bosses this could be an hour long event and required venos passing sparks to keep the barb flesh reaming. Many venos would run in to pass the spark or amp then die by an aoe. So I went HA for the support role.

Obviously our gear has improved, the game has grown (barbs tanking?) but that still doesn't mean our support role has changed. I'm more tanky than most barbs, can always be a main puller or backup puller, and the cleric never has to worry about me. As far as I'm concerned, HA venos are better support than AA venos simply because they aren't "that squishy AA" or afraid to get in and get messy to do their job.



Akos keeps arguing dph with spells. Yes, HA venos end up with about 100 magic less (I'll have around 350, I know some with 400+) while an AA will have 450-550. HA dph is less, but HA dps can easily out dd AA. In pk, dph matters for charm jumping. But almost every skill we have is based on weapon damage and then adds a static amount, both having nothing to do with magic amount. Wood mastery, nothing to do with magic stat amount. So you're really only talking a dph loss of about 10-20%. Many HA venos also have higher crit rates, too. Not to mention all the arcane venos that add 50-100 points into vitality and still have less pdef and hp than an HA veno.

HA has its benefits in pk too, mainly being survivability and the option to switch between melee/caster more effectively.

So point out a real negative to the build? 12% dph loss on a character that is primarily support, not dd. A couple hundred mdef loss for a gain of a couple thousand pdef and hp?

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

With no magic weapon you can still: amp, purge, ironwood debuff, pass sparks, bramble, sage soul degen, self heal hp/mp. That's plenty for what people want a veno to do... it's not like venos were ever known for having strong wood attacks to begin with.

I have a troll veno that subscribes to this and has only 3 mag. Shes pure dex though and kills stuff with my old g15 nirv bow.

LOL. Had to login to say thanks for the laugh. I may try this.

akosireann wrote: »

No mag weps for a veno? Only basically living in a squad for ''support skills''? Aren't those basically selling youself just as a debuff/support ho? That's giving more venos a bad name in the long run

Depends on the squad. We had this debate years ago, with some venos refusing to Amp because they didn't like dropping into Fox form and losing 6 seconds of spell damage. In many squads (and virtually all 6-10 member squads), a veno who does nothing but Amps once every 31 sec contributes more DPS than a veno who spams spells the entire time but doesn't Amp. So IMHO a veno who only DDs but does no support gives venos more of a bad name than purely support venos.

If you're dragging a second character around on a second computer, a support veno is probably the second-best choice after a buff/BB cleric. Giving her a bow means she can continue to auto-attack while you're playing your main. So Asterelle's veno build kinda works. Veno is a wonky class that way - its skills cover melee, ranged DD, and support. So gimping one (ranged spellcasting in this case) doesn't entirely gimp the veno. Indeed, most veno players opt to gimp melee with little repercussion. And in Asterelle's case, giving her a bow negates most of the lost ranged damage.

Marengo - Lost City

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I went HA because...So I went HA for the support role.

Choosing build just for passing sparks to barbs on world bosses b:embarrass Didn't you try to refine your arcane veno? ))

Yes, HA venos end up with about 100 magic less (I'll have around 350, I know some with 400+)

I wonder how. And here i picked stupid tome, all +mag i could find (including jewellry which nobody bothers to make) and set impossible bonuses for weap.

Many HA venos also have higher crit rates, too.

Not many but all, they all put points into dex. But its just 3%. Big deal?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Choosing build just for passing sparks to barbs on world bosses b:embarrass Didn't you try to refine your arcane veno? ))


I wonder how. And here i picked stupid tome, all +mag i could find (including jewellry which nobody bothers to make) and set impossible bonuses for weap.


Not many but all, they all put points into dex. But its just 3%. Big deal?

It wasn't so much chosen just for that purpose. That was just the inspiration. Seeing arcane venos be absolutely useless while HA rocked it made me wonder why people bothered with AA and why HA wasn't more popular. The answer I got at the time was "stronger pet heals". Like any of us have problems healing our pets nowadays. Then again, with a decent gear most don't have problems surviving aoes or support roles any more. I just picked it because they're trickier in pk, and in pve they do the same job just as effectively without survivability issues or drawing the clerics focus.

My build is right here. I didn't add ring engravings or stats on the weapon because I can't remember what I have. I think dex and strength. There are also better gear options, as well as some better crafted options out there. This is sharing gear between my barb and cleric to my veno. Only thing I don't have is the sword yet.

The reason I added about the crit is if we're going to argue over a 12% dph hit on skill the 3% goes quite a way towards making up the difference.

Itori - Lost City

-.-''

I don't even know where to start. Facepalming irl

First off, Venos ARE DDs. I don't know why it's always one extreme or the other, if you think that way you obviously are not gonna be a veno I'd keep very long in squad, or invite in the future.
Sage Soul Degen/Demon Crush Vigor>Amp > Fox myraid> switch forms > triple spark > myraid >ironwood > cycle DD skills > repeat.
Isn't that what most magic oriented venos do?
Honestly, I dislike venos who only do "Support" skills. I personally define support as anything you do to compromise your own damage to help someone else. If a veno never sparks and the squad is slow well... you are gonna get slow squad sometimes, impossible to avoid if you run with randoms every now and then. Veno can be great DDs, not just as "Intnomancers"... Sages pack a punch with a 900% magic spark. I'd rather have the arcane veno who drops to amp and DDs in human, always debuffing defense with ironwood, over the HA veno who stays in fox to "DD" or deals less damage in human. I used to be HA, and really, TRY something before you form an opinion on it. I was never awesome geared as HA, but I can say if you get good refines as HA it's pretty nice, but overall I find HA nerfed veno. Same refines on arcane seems more beneficial to me. And about TW.... MAGIC DEFENSE IS WAYY BETTER THAN PHSYICAL. I don't get the freaking obsession with defense and the aps craze. There are way more ways to prevent/resist phsyical damage before magical damage, and r9 mages friggin hurt. I've done TW as HA, and same refine as AA, survive way better with arcane. You're in fox to purge most of the time, so you have a pretty reliable +120%-150% pdef right there. Oh well, if venos can't get their job done these days, why even bother playing with them.

akosireann

Itori - Lost City wrote: »

-.-''

I don't even know where to start. Facepalming irl

First off, Venos ARE DDs. I don't know why it's always one extreme or the other, if you think that way you obviously are not gonna be a veno I'd keep very long in squad, or invite in the future.
Sage Soul Degen/Demon Crush Vigor>Amp > Fox myraid> switch forms > triple spark > myraid >ironwood > cycle DD skills > repeat.
Isn't that what most magic oriented venos do?
Honestly, I dislike venos who only do "Support" skills. I personally define support as anything you do to compromise your own damage to help someone else. If a veno never sparks and the squad is slow well... you are gonna get slow squad sometimes, impossible to avoid if you run with randoms every now and then. Veno can be great DDs, not just as "Intnomancers"... Sages pack a punch with a 900% magic spark. I'd rather have the arcane veno who drops to amp and DDs in human, always debuffing defense with ironwood, over the HA veno who stays in fox to "DD" or deals less damage in human. I used to be HA, and really, TRY something before you form an opinion on it. I was never awesome geared as HA, but I can say if you get good refines as HA it's pretty nice, but overall I find HA nerfed veno. Same refines on arcane seems more beneficial to me. And about TW.... MAGIC DEFENSE IS WAYY BETTER THAN PHSYICAL. I don't get the freaking obsession with defense and the aps craze. There are way more ways to prevent/resist phsyical damage before magical damage, and r9 mages friggin hurt. I've done TW as HA, and same refine as AA, survive way better with arcane. You're in fox to purge most of the time, so you have a pretty reliable +120%-150% pdef right there. Oh well, if venos can't get their job done these days, why even bother playing with them.

b:chuckle right as rain there +1