Maximizing Damage Output/Questions

CritCat - Archosaur

Okay, normally I would be searching the fourms looking for yet ANOTHER thread about this, but honestly the search feature is a bit complicated and picky. Therefore I ask the other people of this sub-section:

As a sage assassin, Do I get more DPS from 4.0 G13 Barrier Thorns,
or 2.86 Rank 9 Daggers?

Basically, How could I maximize my damage output in DPS?

If I were to stay demon, the best choice would be 4.0/R9 Recast, correct?

How much do I lose switching to perma-spark/4.0 BTs?

Which weapon is best over time for PvE Bosses with more than 1mil HP?

What are the core genie skills for amping other than what I have?
I currently have Frenzy10/Mire10/EP10/iforgotthatzealpullingskill.


Let's say:
http://pwcalc.com/88743a194150c51c

Olbaze - Sanctuary

CritCat - Archosaur wrote: »

Okay, normally I would be searching the fourms looking for yet ANOTHER thread about this, but honestly the search feature is a bit complicated and picky. Therefore I ask the other people of this sub-section:

As a sage assassin, Do I get more DPS from 4.0 G13 Barrier Thorns,
or 2.86 Rank 9 Daggers?

G13 Nirvana: 128,725 dps
R9: 153,182 dps

Obviously, lower refines and shards will favor R9 because it starts out at a higher DPH and has a better refining rate. Adding more Attack Levels, e.g. DoTs and a Jones will in turn favor the G13 as that setup has a notably lower Attack Level to start with.

Basically, How could I maximize my damage output in DPS?

For a Sage, a G15 Nirvana with 2x -0.05 has the highest DPS, as long as you have either SS, GoF or +20 attack Levels as well. Next up to that is R9.

For a Demon, there's a handful of G15s that top R9 in DPS, but R9 is pretty much always the cheaper and better option.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

G13 Nirvana: 128,725 dps
R9: 153,182 dps

Obviously, lower refines and shards will favor R9 because it starts out at a higher DPH and has a better refining rate. Adding more Attack Levels, e.g. DoTs and a Jones will in turn favor the G13 as that setup has a notably lower Attack Level to start with.

So R9 has about 19% more theoretical dps in your build. When I did my calcs it was about the same build but I think I added Jones blessing as a bare minimum for atk levels and it brought the difference down to 14%.

G13 = 165503 (with 35 attack levels)
R9 = 187222 (with 65 attack levels)
=13% difference.

And considering this is comparing a sage build, who are more likely to go heavy on the DoT because they use their triple spark for survivability but lack comparatively in dd, it'd shrink off another percent or two if pure DoT.

G13 = 194926 (59 attack levels)
R9 = 214455 ( 89 attack levels)
=10% difference.

That being said, at 2.86 R9 isn't perma sparked. Even Inner Harmony being instant shaves off a fraction of a second. If you require RDS thats 2 seconds. R9 can do 2 sparks before using IH, a 3rd with IH, and a 4th with RDS but then will have undsparked time. Making the difference between R9 and G13 very very small in terms of dps. The difference in dph obviously still favors R9, especially when zerking. G13 may offer more survivability because you are getting a heal .15 seconds faster between each attack, are permasparking without skill use and don't need to stop recieving paint heals while using your skills, and you don't require zerk attacks and 5% hp loss to maintain your dps.

Empu - Sanctuary

CritCat - Archosaur wrote: »

As a sage assassin, Do I get more DPS from 4.0 G13 Barrier Thorns,
or 2.86 Rank 9 Daggers?

Basically, How could I maximize my damage output in DPS?

If I were to stay demon, the best choice would be 4.0/R9 Recast, correct?

How much do I lose switching to perma-spark/4.0 BTs?

Which weapon is best over time for PvE Bosses with more than 1mil HP?

What are the core genie skills for amping other than what I have?
I currently have Frenzy10/Mire10/EP10/iforgotthatzealpullingskill.

The real question is most probably not about dps figures on the paper, but on how you like to play your sin. I use r9 daggers and 2.86 aps works just fine for me. I like the crazy dph and consider it way more versatile then the classic aps aim. If you are at the point of making a choice between g13 and r9, better ask if you can play differently then spark+poke and if you prefer consistent damage (g13) or big variations between hits (r9).

I think the whole permaspark thing is a non-issue. Since r9 means to me at least +10 refined, you'll either :
- be in squad, and have things dead within 20sec anyway
- solo an easy boss, that will die in 2 to 3 sparks anyway
- solo a hard boss, that won't allow you to permaspark without skills anyway

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

G13 may offer more survivability because you are getting a heal .15 seconds faster between each attack

I hear this a lot, but really would like some explanation on how this actually matters when bosses are at 0.6 aps. For me it's about regenerating your hp back between boss attacks. With any G13+ weapon +10 or higher, you will regenerate more then your hp back between boss hits. It's really a non-issue when talking about that high grade/refined gear.

Just to bug you : I'm actually in favor of high bp per hit rather then having it come in fast. I noticed several times that 1 hit's bp gets compensated with the damage received at that moment. This means that higher dph can allow you to survive hits over your hp.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I hear this a lot, but really would like some explanation on how this actually matters when bosses are at 0.6 aps. For me it's about regenerating your hp back between boss attacks. With any G13+ weapon +10 or higher, you will regenerate more then your hp back between boss hits. It's really a non-issue when talking about that high grade/refined gear.

Just to bug you : I'm actually in favor of high bp per hit rather then having it come in fast. I noticed several times that 1 hit's bp gets compensated with the damage received at that moment. This means that higher dph can allow you to survive hits over your hp.

Its not the .6 aps that kills sins, usually. Thats a physical attack anyways. Its the double attack most bosses do where they use their special attack/magic attack and immediately follow it with a physical attack less than a second later. The magic attacks can really hurt (thinking of Emperror doing a 13k magic attack followed by 3k regular phys) and so basically every 4 or 5 attacks they'll do a double damage attack with only a portion of a second inbetween. I noticed a difference in survivability going from 3.33 aps R8 to 4 aps G15 even though my dps was roughly the same, simply because the stream of heals was more consistant.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

This is why I always use a magic def charm when I'm facing a boss that uses its strong magic attack after 4 melee hits.

Empu - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I noticed a difference in survivability going from 3.33 aps R8 to 4 aps G15 even though my dps was roughly the same, simply because the stream of heals was more consistant.

well ofc, because that is not really a "just aps" increase b:chuckle

If I were to follow your example, my bm should have, and barb should have had, better survivability then my sin. Sure, my sin has a better weapon, but not by so much (G15 +11 fists with double -0.05 int and +3% crit).

Besides, it makes no sence. "a portion of seconds inbetween", wether you do 2 big hits or 4 small hits doesn't matter at all imo. It's not like 2.86 aps is soooooo slow you won't place even 1 hit between that time lol

Traz - Dreamweaver

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

This is why I always use a magic def charm when I'm facing a boss that uses its strong magic attack after 4 melee hits.

Demon knife throw noob

yeah yeah it uses to much spark time anyway *goes off to troll another thread*

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

well ofc, because that is not really a "just aps" increase b:chuckle

I am talking about a just aps increase. My R8 was +8 with two Perfect garnets and when I just got my G15 and they were +5 with flawless. The dps was the same, the dph was only a fraction smaller, but the aps increased.

And with R9 hitting between the magic attack and the regular attack, R9 range is huge because of SS, as well as paint heal range because you might zerk and have a nice hit and only get a tiny bit of hp because it had to first pay the 5% zerk hp back first. So the two hits of R9 might be larger that the 4 hits of G13, but the bloodpaint gain might be noticably smaller. That's what I meant by not always liking a weapon that gets its dps from zerking, rather than just steady damage ouput

Empu - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

And with R9 hitting between the magic attack and the regular attack, R9 range is huge because of SS, as well as paint heal range because you might zerk and have a nice hit and only get a tiny bit of hp because it had to first pay the 5% zerk hp back first. So the two hits of R9 might be larger that the 4 hits of G13, but the bloodpaint gain might be noticably smaller. That's what I meant by not always liking a weapon that gets its dps from zerking, rather than just steady damage ouput

Actually, I never said to disagree with that. Selfquote ftw

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you are at the point of making a choice between g13 and r9, better ask if you can play differently then spark+poke and if you prefer consistent damage (g13) or big variations between hits (r9).

The only "flaw" to debate in the zerk-or-not for bp thing is that the real question goes : does the "noticably smaller bp gain" from 2 zerk hits of r9 (or G15 or r8recast) heal you enough or not ? But that is a question that factors in way to many variables to answer anyway.

To get back to what I said : I'm simply saying that, as long as you have some attack speed (let's say 2+ aps), it doesn't really matter wether you get 500 hp x 4 or 1000 hp x 2 in the same time periode. I'm not gonna dig up any of your old posts, but you pretty often say something like "it's better for survivability to have the heals come in faster, even if overall it's less bp".

Based on my experience, I do not agree with you. Personally, but that is just a preference, I actually like the 1000 bp per hit more, because it's like having 500 more max hp compared to the 500 bp per hit, when soloing a hard boss.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

How the heck does a question about G13 vs R9 result in yet another DPH vs APS discussion?

No wonder the forum is redundant, if even the regulars are turning every single discussion into the same old, redundant stuff.

Empu - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

How the heck does a question about G13 vs R9 result in yet another DPH vs APS discussion?

Honestly, what else do you think it's about when someone starts about G13 vs R9 ?

At least of the threads on sin sub-forum are Weap X vs Weap Y, and that for over a year now. 99% of those threads have a Weap X with higher -int add, and Weap Y with higher dph and/or a proc resulting in higher dph. To be more precise, the whole process of picking a weapon is resumed to 3 parametres anyway :
- speed (-int, -channel, quicken, ...)
- dph (crit, zerk, attack adds, ...)
- defensive adds (+def, blood deflect, hp, ...) that most sins don't care about anyway, and that is limited in 40 extra hp on G13.

The other half are :
- lvl 79 skills worth getting ?
- which skills to lvl ?
- what can I solo with x aps ?
- what genie skills

You only came to realise that now ?

PS : you put that r9 has a better refining rate, which isn't true (r9 = +19, g13 = +21). Unless you were mentionning something else.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Honestly, what else do you think it's about when someone starts about G13 vs R9 ?

How about cost effectiveness?

At least of the threads on sin sub-forum are Weap X vs Weap Y, and that for over a year now. 99% of those threads have a Weap X with higher -int add, and Weap Y with higher dph and/or a proc resulting in higher dph. To be more precise, the whole process of picking a weapon is resumed to 3 parametres anyway :
- speed (-int, -channel, quicken, ...)
- dph (crit, zerk, attack adds, ...)
- defensive adds (+def, blood deflect, hp, ...) that most sins don't care about anyway, and that is limited in 40 extra hp on G13.

Such questions make sense when there's an actual variable. Neither G13 nor R9 have any variable mods, so there is no proper question. R9 costs more, it has more DPS, that's it. And since R9 is a rather popular dagger for sins, I would say that it's obvious that R9 does not gimp your soloing in any kind of meaningful way.

The other half are :
- lvl 79 skills worth getting ?
- which skills to lvl ?
- what can I solo with x aps ?
- what genie skills

1. No
2. All
3. Go test it
4. None

PS : you put that r9 has a better refining rate, which isn't true (r9 = +19, g13 = +21). Unless you were mentionning something else.

Didn't bother to check it, but my point still stands: R9 has a higher base DPH, so lower refines will always favor R9 over G13.

Empu - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

How about cost effectiveness?

Most go for (what they consider to be) "the best" that fits in their budged...

But sure, if you can give me a way to measure it, it can be said to be a parametre. The dps/coin spend would obviously only be an intellectual gadget, as it has no use at all. I don't see a decent way to measure the income generated by a specific weapon, nor could I establish a scale to establish a "popularity gain per coin spend".

If it's just about the cost, the most efficient weapon would be the pixie piercers b:laugh

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Such questions make sense when there's an actual variable. Neither G13 nor R9 have any variable mods, so there is no proper question. R9 costs more, it has more DPS, that's it. And since R9 is a rather popular dagger for sins, I would say that it's obvious that R9 does not gimp your soloing in any kind of meaningful way.

There is a proper question, but there is no cut answer. Which is fundamentally different imo. It's a valid question to wonder if G13 is better then R9, but the answer depends on :
- for what
- for who
- in which situation(s)

I just think the answer to someone's choice between either of those daggers doesn't (or shouldn't) be based on some dps figure, which is exactly what I replied in the first place. What differs the 2 weapons is not a dps figure, it's the playstyle (aps) and the damage spread (dph). And yeah, that makes it redundant, because most are just expecting 1 figure that will show them "X is better then Y". Then the figure will be split down in 2 to make some more sence. This is actually a scientific methode used in all domains I know, and ages old...

Btw, I think cost is really easy to factor out when the OP is wearing +12 stuff

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Most go for (what they consider to be) "the best" that fits in their budged...

But the concept of a "budget" is in itself rather absurd. Just because at some point in time, you cannot afford Equipment A does not mean you'll never be able to afford Equipment A.

But sure, if you can give me a way to measure it, it can be said to be a parametre. The dps/coin spend would obviously only be an intellectual gadget, as it has no use at all. I don't see a decent way to measure the income generated by a specific weapon, nor could I establish a scale to establish a "popularity gain per coin spend".

If we looked at DPS/coin, the result would be that the cheaper weapons would come out on top, which is a bit weird. "Popularity" isn't a well-defined concept so using it as a measure wouldn't work.

If it's just about the cost, the most efficient weapon would be the pixie piercers b:laugh

Well, in this case it is rather about the maximum DPS, which I already answered to.

I just think the answer to someone's choice between either of those daggers doesn't (or shouldn't) be based on some dps figure, which is exactly what I replied in the first place. What differs the 2 weapons is not a dps figure, it's the playstyle (aps) and the damage spread (dph). And yeah, that makes it redundant, because most are just expecting 1 figure that will show them "X is better then Y". Then the figure will be split down in 2 to make some more sence. This is actually a scientific methode used in all domains I know, and ages old...

However, the OP specifically asked for maximum damage output, or highest DPS, thus that is the valid answer. Of course, there would be a certain degree of fuzziness to the DPS of the higher APS weapon as they could efficiently use skills like Subsea or Power Dash to try to even it out.

Well actually, I think there's more than just DPH and DPS. The DPH opens into Attack Level, Damage and Critical Hit %, of which the Damage opens to a whole range. The DPS opens to the APS, which opens the question of permasparking and/or Power Dash/Subsea.

Of those factors, people often ignore Critical Hits and the damage range.

Btw, I think cost is really easy to factor out when the OP is wearing +12 stuff

Either the OP is a massive cash shopper or it's a theoretical situation, as I recall the OP posting a video of trying to solo FCC with a 2.x APS R8 Sage Sin and dying at the first boss a while back. If it's the former, then cost isn't a factor and R9 is superior to everything except the mystical 2x -0.05 G15 Nirvana. If it's the latter, then this topic itself is a pointless waste of everyone's time.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Well.. there really isn't much else to talk about in the sin subforums. XD

Though I don't think we talked much about bows.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well.. there really isn't much else to talk about in the sin subforums. XD

Though I don't think we talked much about bows.

There's not much to talk about bows anyway. The archers already went through the discussion of G15 Spirit Blackhole vs Heaven Shatterer for purging and that's pretty much all we'd use a bow for. The result: Spirit Blackhole purges faster. Whether the small amount of saved time is worth the cost is an individual matter. Personally, I did get a Heaven Shatterer just for the Treasure Map bosses.

Empu - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

But the concept of a "budget" is in itself rather absurd. Just because at some point in time, you cannot afford Equipment A does not mean you'll never be able to afford Equipment A.

If you reason like that, there is no use at looking at cost at all. So why did you bring cost efficiency up ? b:laugh

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

If we looked at DPS/coin, the result would be that the cheaper weapons would come out on top, which is a bit weird. "Popularity" isn't a well-defined concept so using it as a measure wouldn't work.

Exactly my point... but how good others consider your weapon to be, still is the main source of cost efficiency.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

However, the OP specifically asked for maximum damage output, or highest DPS, thus that is the valid answer. Of course, there would be a certain degree of fuzziness to the DPS of the higher APS weapon as they could efficiently use skills like Subsea or Power Dash to try to even it out.

Well, you already said it yourself : "maximizing dps" isn't an objective because it has no defined sense. To be get to an actual answer, the minimum degree of precision needed would be "which weapon has the highest average damage output on boss A, when considering a timeframe of B seconds, while being in squad (or solo)".

Most probably, and not calculating it cause it's of no use, r9 has an advantage of pumping out a lot of damage on a short time, while g13 aims more for a long-run and predictable damage.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well actually, I think there's more than just DPH and DPS. The DPH opens into Attack Level, Damage and Critical Hit %, of which the Damage opens to a whole range. The DPS opens to the APS, which opens the question of permasparking and/or Power Dash/Subsea.

Of those factors, people often ignore Critical Hits and the damage range.

Like you said, the other dimensions only open from the previous lvls... The purpose of a dichotomial approach (or however you spell it in english) is to subdivide the subdivisions till you end up with the precision and/or simplicity required to find the "solution" to your problem. Descartes was very famous for this...

Still, the fundamental subdevisions I see concerning a weapon are APS, DPH and Survival. That you, for instance, subdivide DPH in consistant and non-consistant, then subdivide the later in proc and crit, ... That all doesn't change the 3 fundamental parts.

N.B. for the linguistics : for any equipment you'd be looking at Damage and Survival. Since on a weapon the Damage part is obviously most important, I tend to immediately go into the componants of Damage and just mention the Survivability part so as not to totally neglect it.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Either the OP is a massive cash shopper or it's a theoretical situation, as I recall the OP posting a video of trying to solo FCC with a 2.x APS R8 Sage Sin and dying at the first boss a while back. If it's the former, then cost isn't a factor and R9 is superior to everything except the mystical 2x -0.05 G15 Nirvana. If it's the latter, then this topic itself is a pointless waste of everyone's time.

Since when became the "intellectual exercices", as they are often called, become a waste of time on these forums ? Or look above, that the OP can't afford equipment A today, doesn't mean he/she can't some day later... b:laugh

As for wasting time, free time is always a waste of time... The whole game is just made to waste time, so everything related to it is the same. The point of "free time", it exists to spend it on unnecesary things, no ? Don't take things to seriously, it's bad for the heart b:flower b:mischievous

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

I guess that's true. I need to eventually aim for Spirit Blackhole on my bow.

And that techno flower is killing me Empu.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you reason like that, there is no use at looking at cost at all. So why did you bring cost efficiency up ? b:laugh

Because. Most people aren't merchants, so their budget tends to be dependent on their ability to farm. For sins, this means at least R8, most likely G13.

Exactly my point... but how good others consider your weapon to be, still is the main source of cost efficiency.

Only if you're dependent on farming. For example, as a decent merchant, I'm not dependent on that. Heck, since getting my G13 last December, I've only done maybe 10 Nirvanas total and yet I've more than tripled my "budget".

Still, the fundamental subdevisions I see concerning a weapon are APS, DPH and Survival. That you, for instance, subdivide DPH in consistant and non-consistant, then subdivide the later in proc and crit, ... That all doesn't change the 3 fundamental parts.

Of course it doesn't. It can, however, justify certain changes that otherwise would seem silly. Rings would be a good example of this: Band from Heaven's Jail is one of the top rings in the game and yet many people prefer to go for Sign of Frost: Chaos. Heck, I'll be getting one once I get something to cover the +7 str on my ring.

CritCat - Archosaur

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

OP is a massive cash shopper

Now I am.

I've recently abandoned my assassin on Archosaur and rolled another server. I was just wondering and asking the same questions. What I REALLY tried to look for was the damage sheet someone made comparing Hitman Legends, R9, R8, G13, with and without tome. I cannot find it.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

CritCat - Archosaur wrote: »

Now I am.

I've recently abandoned my assassin on Archosaur and rolled another server. I was just wondering and asking the same questions. What I REALLY tried to look for was the damage sheet someone made comparing Hitman Legends, R9, R8, G13, with and without tome. I cannot find it.

That sheet isn't something you should look for. As far as I remember, the person who wrote the sheet was using faulty values for attack levels and wasn't factoring in Wolf Emblem.

But here it is anyway.

Seems like there was an updated version of it. Even that is slightly questionable though due to recast R8 having -interval, G15 having GoF, -interval and crit% and only G13 having the question of sockets being brought to the table. And personally I'm not too convinced that the GoF and SS procs have correct multipliers.

Empu - Sanctuary

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

And that techno flower is killing me Empu.

b:flower b:flower b:flower
b:sin

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Of course it doesn't. It can, however, justify certain changes that otherwise would seem silly. Rings would be a good example of this: Band from Heaven's Jail is one of the top rings in the game and yet many people prefer to go for Sign of Frost: Chaos. Heck, I'll be getting one once I get something to cover the +7 str on my ring.

You really want me to start breaking down "survivability" b:surrender

If you re-read, you'll see it fits in perfectly fine. However, an analysis methode doesn't mean everyone will come to 1 unique answer... Which is something ppl on these forums (not pointing you or anyone particularly) have a huge issue with.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:flower b:flower b:flower
b:sin



You really want me to start breaking down "survivability" b:surrender

If you re-read, you'll see it fits in perfectly fine. However, an analysis methode doesn't mean everyone will come to 1 unique answer... Which is something ppl on these forums (not pointing you or anyone particularly) have a huge issue with.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg11/scaled.php?server=11&filename=itseverywhereyouwanttob.png&res=medium

highest survivability in the game.

Empu - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg11/scaled.php?server=11&filename=itseverywhereyouwanttob.png&res=medium

highest survivability in the game.

Pfffff, mastercard all the way ! b:avoid

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg11/scaled.php?server=11&filename=itseverywhereyouwanttob.png&res=medium

highest survivability in the game.

Narrow damage range, I'm disapointed. Where's my spike damage!

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Pfffff, mastercard all the way ! b:avoid

Psssh, Europeans. Mastercard seems almost gone in the states but I know its big in Europe.


And the reason I actually found this thread interesting was not sooo much the dps comparison or the survivability comparison, which partially comes down to gameplay and situation (3+ sparks? skills in cd or needed incase slept? Using other skills and falling short of a spark). It's that with some slight variability in calcs G13 has about the same dps as R9 for 1/8 the price. Especially considering that with the 1bil+ saved you can take the low refine part out of the equation. If you can afford R9, you can afford +12 G13.

So the argument of R9 doesn't permaspark but does ~10% more dps can be thrown out and simply dismissed as "depending on gameplay and situation, R9 and G13 are close to the same dps for sage sins".

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

And the reason I actually found this thread interesting was not sooo much the dps comparison or the survivability comparison, which partially comes down to gameplay and situation (3+ sparks? skills in cd or needed incase slept? Using other skills and falling short of a spark). It's that with some slight variability in calcs G13 has about the same dps as R9 for 1/8 the price. Especially considering that with the 1bil+ saved you can take the low refine part out of the equation. If you can afford R9, you can afford +12 G13.

So the argument of R9 doesn't permaspark but does ~10% more dps can be thrown out and simply dismissed as "depending on gameplay and situation, R9 and G13 are close to the same dps for sage sins".

And that right there is exactly why I don't plan to go beyond G13. R9 is too expensive for the minimal gain and the same is obviously true of G15. Since I'm not walking around with +10 armors, obviously the cost is a factor.

And heck, even +10 G13 is overkill for most things in the game, so I see very little reason to go for anything beyond that.

Comparing this G13 to this R9 we see that the difference is a mere 8% in DPS. And that is actually a very realistic Sage sin setup for someone going for R9.

Empu - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Psssh, Europeans. Mastercard seems almost gone in the states but I know its big in Europe.

Mastercard Mastery still sounds better then VISA Mastery though b:cool

Jesusisback - Raging Tide

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

And that right there is exactly why I don't plan to go beyond G13. R9 is too expensive for the minimal gain and the same is obviously true of G15. Since I'm not walking around with +10 armors, obviously the cost is a factor.

And heck, even +10 G13 is overkill for most things in the game, so I see very little reason to go for anything beyond that.

Well if you're looking at it from a PvE view, then yeah what you say does make a lot of sense.

Still we both know that a lot of sins get r9 and try to roll nice G15s because of how destructive they are in PvP/TW.

CritCat - Archosaur

Updated with gear.

And please Olbaze, cost is no longer an issue.

CritCat - Archosaur

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I hear this a lot, but really would like some explanation on how this actually matters when bosses are at 0.6 aps. For me it's about regenerating your hp back between boss attacks. With any G13+ weapon +10 or higher, you will regenerate more then your hp back between boss hits. It's really a non-issue when talking about that high grade/refined gear..

It doesn't really matter when the boss is hitting me for 5~7k each hit.

All that matters is timing triple spark, spamming HP pots and charms, and keeping ribstrike up.

I'm just trying to crank out the max DPS on this toon.