Would this be Nirvana worthy?

Empu - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

The thing is, bound equipment has 0 market value. From my person experience, every single time I bought something bound, I felt bad about it. Happened with my TT99, happened with my nirvana leggings, happened with my nirvana dagger.

Honestly, you start to sound like most of those merchants that don't even know the difference between stock and assets b:sad Market value only has a limited importance really, most important is the use value. How can you feel sad about a resell value of a piece of gear that gives you a certain number of extra bh/nirvana/tt/whatever invites for the time you use it ?

We all know that the best way to get coins and keep them, is to play a lv1~10 catshop ... Then again, collecting coins just for the sake of having more money is a psychological disorder that can be compared to collecting toillet paper. The only "use" of money is the ability to trade it with something you can use.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why is there a -channeling cape on your sin? Change that to a -interval one and you'd be 4.0 on the R8, which is a pretty standard farming setup.

I missclicked wrong cape, no wonder the aps were that low, lol. I actually got the -int lunar robe on my sin atm soo that`s taken care of. But now I know the frack it was showing so low aps . Thanks for noticing, kitty is blind at times. I guess Corona dags are obvious decision now as 4aps still wont get the nerf, does it?

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

@OP I used the r8 legs at a +2 refine and socketed with flawless citrines while I farmed my TT99 gear. And it only cost me ~1.4m. 1m for the legs, 420k for the citrines, and a couple mirages for the refine. It's a good investment for leggings while you farm your other -int gear first. As I've noticed, put that 20-30m into rep. From personal experience and logical thinking, going for cheaper -int gear first is better than going for the more expensive one.

To put it in an analogy, it's like using your Hook and Thorns to farm your G13 vana because you'd rather spend money on the tt80's, shard and refine it before selling it and have some use out of it, rather than staring at the R8 daggers in your bank/inventory because it can only be word -that- time and you can't do anything else with it.

R8 legs is actually better than the TT99 LA legs, in terms of both adds and base defense. They're actually very good leggings.

That's just my two cents.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Honestly, you start to sound like most of those merchants that don't even know the difference between stock and assets b:sad Market value only has a limited importance really, most important is the use value. How can you feel sad about a resell value of a piece of gear that gives you a certain number of extra bh/nirvana/tt/whatever invites for the time you use it ?

We all know that the best way to get coins and keep them, is to play a lv1~10 catshop ... Then again, collecting coins just for the sake of having more money is a psychological disorder that can be compared to collecting toillet paper. The only "use" of money is the ability to trade it with something you can use.

Of course, that's all very true. Right now I have merchandise and coin that totals something like 400m, yet it's utterly useless to me because it won't get me that one piece of equipment that I want. Then again, I only want that equipment for the sake of having it.

Obviously, if a piece of equipment does get you those invites to Nirvana/BH/TT or makes you able to make money by soloing FCC or Abaddon/Seat, then it's all worth it. However, what I've experienced has been kinda funky. When I bought my Nirvana leggings, I didn't really experience any increase in getting Nirvana squads, as I was still only 2.5 aps. I also wasn't able to do anything I hadn't already been doing, except that my sparking cycles had improved. It also took me like 3 months to get back to the point where I was before I bought the leggings.

In comparison, the reason I'm currently aiming for Pan Gu, Creator at 250m instead of getting a +10 on my weapon for 100m is because the Pan Gu, Creator does not lose value. It's not only a piece of gear I want, it's a growing asset. That's why I dislike bound gear: the moment you equip them, they lose their monetary value and possibly allows you to do new things in the game.

Ideally, a piece of gear that you buy would maintain its value. Pieces of gear that do this at endgame would be a tome and lunar nirvana equipment, mostly. This is ideal because it gives you both the money and the use value. Which is why buying bound gear always makes me a bit sad: because I always eventually see it as a loss of funds.

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

I missclicked wrong cape, no wonder the aps were that low, lol. I actually got the -int lunar robe on my sin atm soo that`s taken care of. But now I know the frack it was showing syo low aps . Thanks for noticing, kitty is blind at times. I guess Corona dags are obvious decision now as 4aps still wont get the nerf, does it?

Nope. The 5% damage nerf exists on 4.0 as well. I tried that myself. However, even with it, 4 aps is still going to give you DPS equal to 3.8 aps. The only thing it does is it brings the gap between 3.33, 4.0 and 5.0 closer, thus promoting the lower APS weapons such as Rank 9, G15 Nirvana, Rank 8, Radiant Dagger and the Morai dagger.

I wouldn't really go for the Morai, since R8 is still superior, even accounting for the 60 Warding Levels.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

well, from my point of view:

1)tt99 legs (refine/shard)
then you recast them -> refines+shards lost forever

2)r8 legs (refine/shard) (1mil extra cost)
tt99, recast -> you still have them (too look pretty? xd) or npc them for 10k coins or so

in the end r8 legs will be 1mil more expensive assuming same refines/shards and that you already have the required manufactoring level to recast (for example I dont, so if I used them before recasting I would have to buy the pack)

on the other hand, tt99 legs is a quite large investment; depending on the time it takes to recast it you might be able to make waay more money by merchantizing with that money than the 1mil for those r8 legs. I think that the upgrade from r8 to tt99 wont get you more squads since the difference is quite small... instead, a few more refines on weapon might get u more squads.

anyway, i think we kinda overanalyze this part xD

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Then again, collecting coins just for the sake of having more money is a psychological disorder that can be compared to collecting toillet paper. The only "use" of money is the ability to trade it with something you can use.

damn, i'm screwedb:sad

Empu - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ideally, a piece of gear that you buy would maintain its value. Pieces of gear that do this at endgame would be a tome and lunar nirvana equipment, mostly. This is ideal because it gives you both the money and the use value. Which is why buying bound gear always makes me a bit sad: because I always eventually see it as a loss of funds.

Allow me to dissagree, for several reasons :

1) Any gear that produces an advantage superior to it's cost is worth getting. Resell value is a part of this, but pretty tiny when talking about end-game gear. "End-game" is counted in for infinate time by definition.

2) To chain on that, you could say that the only reason to sell it would be for something "better" to become available. Since the market value is nothing less then the use value for others, the day you would rationally sell the item is when the items market value drops (for instance the price drop of lunar nirvana armor with all the r9 sales and recently r8 recast).

3) Building a character on the main purpose of being able to dismount it fast is just irrational. Actually, only corrupt/illegal subjects run by this principle.

4) Gear is the main investment, besides skills and maybe some more intangeble stuff like "reputation". Those are needed to "play the game". All the money you desire to make simply serves that purpose. You act like it's the other way around : the purpose is to make money, and you get gear for that.

5) Merchanting doesn't make the population any richer, it's just a way to redistribute what already exists. Since the only ways to "create" riches is to either kill/loot stuff or to charge, the whole reselling thing only makes sence as long as there are ppl farming...

Spending is needed to grow. If not, just stay with a low lvl catshop... Seeing money as an objective is one of the major flaws of modern society imo.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Allow me to dissagree, for several reasons :

1) Any gear that produces an advantage superior to it's cost is worth getting. Resell value is a part of this, but pretty tiny when talking about end-game gear. "End-game" is counted in for infinate time by definition.

2) To chain on that, you could say that the only reason to sell it would be for something "better" to become available. Since the market value is nothing less then the use value for others, the day you would rationally sell the item is when the items market value drops (for instance the price drop of lunar nirvana armor with all the r9 sales and recently r8 recast).

3) Building a character on the main purpose of being able to dismount it fast is just irrational. Actually, only corrupt/illegal subjects run by this principle.

4) Gear is the main investment, besides skills and maybe some more intangeble stuff like "reputation". Those are needed to "play the game". All the money you desire to make simply serves that purpose. You act like it's the other way around : the purpose is to make money, and you get gear for that.

5) Merchanting doesn't make the population any richer, it's just a way to redistribute what already exists. Since the only ways to "create" riches is to either kill/loot stuff or to charge, the whole reselling thing only makes sence as long as there are ppl farming...

Spending is needed to grow. If not, just stay with a low lvl catshop... Seeing money as an objective is one of the major flaws of modern society imo.

1) Of course, superior gear is always "worth" it, in theory. In practice, personal opinion of the "worth" plays a much larger role. Otherwise, everyone would be rolling R9 because it's the best piece of gear in the game.

2) Maybe. Personally I value resaleability simply because that means the gear still has its market value. For me, that means that at any given moment in time, I can sell it off and use that to merchant, if I so desire. This is actually what's currently driving me to getting Pan Gu, Creator.

3) Then again the same is true of building a character solely for moneymaking.

4) Who knows. Personally my current interests lie less in getting the gear and more in seeing how far I can go as an F2P play before I hit a wall or reach my end goal or PWE puts on some sale that kills me off or shuts down PWI.

5) True. Doesn't mean that it's still not the most consistent means of acquiring personal wealth. Personally, I don't have the drive, focus and dedication to farm, even during 2x. Heck, in the 1 week 2x that we had, all I did was my 99 keys run, maybe 15 Nirvanas and the Treasure Hunter daily. I still walked out with tens of millions of coin in profit and my overall assets roughly doubled in that week.

There's all kinds of people in the game. Some don't have the means nor will to merchant, others don't have the will to farm. Some do both. Some do none and proceed to cash shop and/or complain about the game being difficult.

And the resale value issue here was mostly about the TT99 leggings. TT99 leggings, for an assassin, are nothing but a souledge for Shadow Ashura Greaves: Having them gives you absolutely nothing over Rank 8. Thus, getting them, even if you have to eventually get them, is kinda dumb. It's about as dumb as me having had 657 Mystical Tome Fragments in my bank for the past month because tokens still haven't dropped back to 10,000 coins each.