Advice to Kind Hearted Clerics

StarianNight - Dreamweaver

I just helped with a random bh69 squad, not wined. I was very very frustrated at the squad, the wizzy ran ahead with the sin. The agro went in a circle from wizzy -> sin -> archer and back to the wizzy again, the designated tank (bm) barely ever had the agro. I have warned the team over and over again, let the BM go in first and to control their power output so there will not be agro ping pong. Of course, I was ignored over and over again even after I told the wizzy that i will not heal or rez him again if he decides to charge in before the tank. Finished the run with lots of death, and an extremely annoyed cleric.b:surrender

I just wanted to say to the lower lvled clerics out there who have a nice and kind heart that believe they have to keep someone alive even if their own lives on the line, let the newbs die. If you have warned someone more than 3 times and they still do not listen, don't heal them and laugh as you watch them suicide. b:chuckle In a team, co-operation is needed, the cleric's job is to keep the team alive but only if the team tries their best to make the cleric's job easier. We are not gods, we can't do everything. Understand when you can save someone or when you should just let them die. Remember that we are not there to make up for the mistakes of others.

SxeChik - Archosaur

StarianNight - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In a team, co-operation is needed, the cleric's job is to keep the team alive but only if the team tries their best to make the cleric's job easier. We are not gods, we can't do everything. Understand when you can save someone or when you should just let them die. Remember that we are not there to make up for the mistakes of others.

Them's fightin' words b:chuckle I need to learn how to feel not bad when I leave a newb die bc of not listening to me...

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

I aproove of this thread +1

Decus - Dreamweaver

SxeChik - Archosaur wrote: »

Them's fightin' words b:chuckle I need to learn how to feel not bad when I leave a newb die bc of not listening to me...

It's easy. I find I just never took it on myself to cure someone's idiocy. Also, make sure to ditch squads that are rude. More points if you do it at a time when they really need you.

A cleric needs thick skin

CrusherJam - Dreamweaver

I was in a FC squad, my cleric was lvl 85 (87 now )

the Seeker of the squad had a blaming complex, people would arago the mobs

(like the archer) or get AOE'd by Runewolf. and he would say something .

eventually his irritating attitude turned on me as the cleric. As much as i wanted

to "not heal him and let him die" I just vented in Faction chat.

He earned a special place on my block list.

Amazingly enough i met him once more some time later on my Mystic (92 at the time)

and he was the same level as he was some months earlier so i'm assuming

he couldn't get a squad due to this fact.

(its very possible he stopped playing for a few months)

I healed him in this squad but when it was all over i dueled him into oblivion :-)

StarianNight - Dreamweaver

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's easy. I find I just never took it on myself to cure someone's idiocy. Also, make sure to ditch squads that are rude. More points if you do it at a time when they really need you.

A cleric needs thick skin

LOL!! I have never done that before, maybe I should try next time when I have a bad squad b:sin

However, even though I posted this thread, I still will feel guilty if I ditch a whole team just because of 1 or 2 idiots in it. Guess I need to have thicker skin? b:chuckle

SxeChik - Archosaur

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's easy. I find I just never took it on myself to cure someone's idiocy. Also, make sure to ditch squads that are rude. More points if you do it at a time when they really need you.

A cleric needs thick skin

b:chuckle

StarianNight - Dreamweaver wrote: »

LOL!! I have never done that before, maybe I should try next time when I have a bad squad

However, even though I posted this thread, I still will feel guilty if I ditch a whole team just because of 1 or 2 idiots in it. Guess I need to have thicker skin?

Ikr!!! and it's sad when other people (like ur friends) are asking for your help in that squad, and they never realized how suck that 1-2person do bc they never played cleric.

ILubby - Raging Tide

O_O BH69 UNWINED?!! Girl, you got some huge patience there !b:shocked
I'd apologize and say I can't once I hear the word unwined for 69+ BHs......I've got no 2+ hrs to spend on such things anymore add to that the noobs you had. The least thing you could do is refuse to heal b:laugh so don't feel bad.

_Mikosage_ - Dreamweaver

StarianNight - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I just helped with a random bh69 squad, not wined. I was very very frustrated at the squad, the wizzy ran ahead with the sin. The agro went in a circle from wizzy -> sin -> archer and back to the wizzy again, the designated tank (bm) barely ever had the agro. I have warned the team over and over again, let the BM go in first and to control their power output so there will not be agro ping pong. Of course, I was ignored over and over again even after I told the wizzy that i will not heal or rez him again if he decides to charge in before the tank. Finished the run with lots of death, and an extremely annoyed cleric.b:surrender

I just wanted to say to the lower lvled clerics out there who have a nice and kind heart that believe they have to keep someone alive even if their own lives on the line, let the newbs die. If you have warned someone more than 3 times and they still do not listen, don't heal them and laugh as you watch them suicide. b:chuckle In a team, co-operation is needed, the cleric's job is to keep the team alive but only if the team tries their best to make the cleric's job easier. We are not gods, we can't do everything. Understand when you can save someone or when you should just let them die. Remember that we are not there to make up for the mistakes of others.

So you're advocating letting the entire team fail because of your personal distaste for the way someone is playing?

You must be pro.

StarianNight - Dreamweaver

_Mikosage_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So you're advocating letting the entire team fail because of your personal distaste for the way someone is playing?

You must be pro.

The WAY SOMEONE PLAYS!! that is wayyyyy underestimating it. A wizzy and sin that runs ahead of the squad and has agro almost the whole time? That is a pretty fail player right there. Squishies should always always ALWAYS let the tank take the agro! If they get it once or twice by accident, I am totally fine with it as I understand that lower lvled players are not very good at controlling their power output, but if it is for the whole run, they really really should go read some guides or at least listen to the team's advice!

In the end, I am merely saying that clerics need to understand that we are not there to make up for the mistake of others. It is simply impossible to keep everyone alive if they are not doing their designated job in a team. A sin or wizzy that gets 2 shot by the mobs in there most the time expects me to keep them alive? GTFO! b:bye Go learn to play your class before you put more pressure and stress on the squad.

AND it's not like i let the team die. I just refuse to heal or rez the wizzy. He can go suicide and lose as much exp as he wants. The rest of the team survived fine with me healing regularly =_=

StarianNight - Dreamweaver

ILubby - Raging Tide wrote: »

O_O BH69 UNWINED?!! Girl, you got some huge patience there !b:shocked
I'd apologize and say I can't once I hear the word unwined for 69+ BHs......I've got no 2+ hrs to spend on such things anymore add to that the noobs you had. The least thing you could do is refuse to heal b:laugh so don't feel bad.

It wasn't that bad, took about 1 hour^^ Had a friend in the team, so I couldn't ditch :S

_vaiya_ - Lost City

My Rules:
1. don't sacrifice precious exp for other ppl's stupidity.
2. determine a maximum number of your own deaths in a squad. once that number has been reached, leave.
3. keep the SQUAD alive, not the individuals.

if i'm in a horrible squad and no one is listening to me i'll just leave. if it's only 1-2 idiots then either get them kicked out of the squad or find a way to minimize the damage those idiots can do (let them die and don't rezz them until the boss is about to die or dont rezz them at all). of course it's only fair if you give them a warning of the consequences of their actions (no heals and later a very reluctant rezz), but if they don't read the squad chat then that's their fault.

letting them die and not bothering to rezz them is a really effective method. usually by that time the idiots will leave of their own accord. that being said, it gives me great satisfaction to see idiots dying. their confusion is priceless.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

I agree.

I rarely leave squads, but after I repeatedly warn, and am not listened to...over and over and over again, I will leave. I've little tolerance for such things, and if you don't respect me enough to listen, then you don't respect me enough to be squadded with me...especially if its the whole/most of the team that's at fault. I normally friend list the good players their, or speak in chat with them, but the bad ones get left.

I don't abuse this, but one advantage of a cleric is the ease of finding a squad. Thus, if you're rude to me,...you'll soon discover that you need me more than I need you. (And my sage rez, sage IH, and plethora of other sage skills won't be there for you either. )

I believe in communicating and trying, and even tolerating some things, but general rudeness, amongst other things....means that its time for me to drop.

Good thread btw.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

_Mikosage_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So you're advocating letting the entire team fail because of your personal distaste for the way someone is playing?

You must be pro.

If the entire team doesn't say something and allows that person to continuously cause the cleric to die and ruins their gameplay, then yes, they should leave. If you don't want the cleric to leave and see them having a hard time with someone who won't listen, don't just stand there and watch them get smacked around by the mobs. Say something, or do what you can to make up for it. EG, attack what the wizzy is attacking. Run if the wizzy goes down and you get aggro to the tank. That way the cleric doesn't end up with heal aggro and can save you just as you saved the cleric. I've been in squads with fail people plenty of times, and when the whole squad compensates for one idiot, it tends to not be a big deal for anyone but that one person. If you won't, then you can't get mad when the person drops because they want to have fun too. Not just die over and over.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's easy. I find I just never took it on myself to cure someone's idiocy. Also, make sure to ditch squads that are rude. More points if you do it at a time when they really need you.

A cleric needs thick skin

The red seems to disagree with the blue. I normally agree with you, and I agree you shouldn't be punished for someone else's idiocy, but having thick skin and ragequiting over a bad squad are not the same thing. In fact, I blame ragequiters for most the idiocy around because so many people can't take advice without raging that teammates become afraid to suggest things. I've seen barbs rage quite over "please get aggro before entering bb." I've also seen cleric's AD when a barb brings unaggroed mobs back because they were afraid their tank would quit and to them a bad tank was better than no tank.

Thick skin means defending yourself and not getting down about bad situations. I tell the sin that can't control their aggro "I only heal one tank. Either you tank, or him, pick." Then they either have to tank, or control their aggro because the rules were laid out. They can rage all they want after that, I'm not gonna let it bother me and I'm not going to quit.

My personal philosophy as a cleric is only I can get myself killed. Stupid people do stupid things and I heal them and die, that's my fault more than it was theirs because I healed. I put myself in that position. If I couldn't have handled it, I should have healed. This takes away alot of the blame game and if people accuse me for not healing I just say "I couldn't have survived to rez you if I did" and we're done because I can defend my actions and they can't defend getting themselves killed.

brideinred

_Mikosage_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So you're advocating letting the entire team fail because of your personal distaste for the way someone is playing?

You must be pro.

Yes, but not the entire team just the rusher.
And yes, she is pro in doing it. Problem? b:pleased

Death to all rushers.

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

Its quite simple actually, if you have squad lead (then again though its not hard for a cleric to get squad leader, if someone is annoying your *** in a squad just act all nice to said person once the boss is down to about 10% hp kick said person from the squad.

Ny_Naeve - Dreamweaver

StarianNight - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I just helped with a random bh69 squad, not wined. I was very very frustrated at the squad, the wizzy ran ahead with the sin. The agro went in a circle from wizzy -> sin -> archer and back to the wizzy again, the designated tank (bm) barely ever had the agro. I have warned the team over and over again, let the BM go in first and to control their power output so there will not be agro ping pong. Of course, I was ignored over and over again even after I told the wizzy that i will not heal or rez him again if he decides to charge in before the tank. Finished the run with lots of death, and an extremely annoyed cleric.b:surrender

I just wanted to say to the lower lvled clerics out there who have a nice and kind heart that believe they have to keep someone alive even if their own lives on the line, let the newbs die. If you have warned someone more than 3 times and they still do not listen, don't heal them and laugh as you watch them suicide. b:chuckle In a team, co-operation is needed, the cleric's job is to keep the team alive but only if the team tries their best to make the cleric's job easier. We are not gods, we can't do everything. Understand when you can save someone or when you should just let them die. Remember that we are not there to make up for the mistakes of others.

It's my personal belief that this comes of Fcing too much and at very low levels. They have to rush to keep up in fc and then do the same in every pother instance as well. I have seen it in lots of random squads or PUG's. I felt bad at first too as a newbie, but as my gameplay matured I realized its thier own damn fault. I dont hesistate to leave a squad anymore. As a quester I value my exp too much - I worked damn hard for it.

StarianNight - Dreamweaver

brideinred wrote: »

Yes, but not the entire team just the rusher.
And yes, she is pro in doing it. Problem? b:pleased

Death to all rushers.

b:chuckle

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've seen barbs rage quite over "please get aggro before entering bb." I've also seen cleric's AD when a barb brings unaggroed mobs back because they were afraid their tank would quit and to them a bad tank was better than no tank.

^This b:cry happened sooo many times when i was in FC, though sometimes it is a fail BM's fault :S

Sylredrae - Sanctuary

I toughened up when my cleric was in the 70-79 level range after too many idiot squads. Not just one person, but sometimes up to three or four idiots! Generally I've been lucky enough to get good squads, but if there's a rusher or some other idiot in squad, I generally let them die if they aggro too many mobs without hitting them first. If I heal them anyways, I try to save myself first. Failing that, I just go to town or wait for another cleric to res (if there is one in squad). After encountering so many fail squads before lvl 100, I'm pretty much used to dying. Generally it works out, most people I've squaded with understand that if you don't aggro all mobs, the cleric will not heal. I very rarely leave squads unless 1) they're completely insane or 2) too many too stupid idiots resulting in repeated deaths. Ha... so yeah, I can put up with a lot before I leave, which is very rare.

I actually found people that are willing to go through an UNWINED CLERICLESS BH ABBADON. I'm not joking. I choose to leave that squad because I didn't trust anyone and I just had a bad feeling about it (namely dying just before they killed the bh boss; my cleric can take the punishment... my veno... not so much). I ended up going with a more conventional faction squad with people I trusted, and it went beautifully. Unfortunately, the drama resulted in one of the sins in faction leaving and the barb in said unconventional abba squad telling me "you should learn how to play the game." Yeah... don't get me wrong here - I'm all for unconventional ways of playing through bhs, but there's only so far I'm willing to go.

There was also an EU (Endless Universe) squad I had which only had one cleric, but it wasn't me. (I do not do EU as cleric since he doesn't need the gear.) Yes, I wasn't a cleric in that instance, but I was one at heart and I could understand her pain. The squad wouldn't too bad if not for the fact that they horribly sucked at aggro management, resulting in the cleric dying at least five times (probably more)! b:shocked No mystic or other cleric in squad so she had to go to town. Eventually, the cleric said "enough is enough, if you can't manage aggro, I'm leaving!"

She promptly left squad, resulting in most of my squadmates either condemning her actions or blacklisting her. I pretty much supported her decision (although I didn't say anything in squad chat, I told her in pm) and approved of her leaving. She seriously had more tolerance for fail squads than me... and besides, she was probably only doing to die more on Ghost Wing (3rd boss in EU). We completed the EU run without her... although it was tough since the archers were mostly MIA so the only ranged DD were me and a wizzy. Yes, clerics should have 'tough skin,' but we should also set limits so people don't take advantage of our kindness or continue with their stupidity at our expense.

NinnaXXX - Sanctuary

lols call me crazy but i don't mind unwined bh's at all, only if im ina hurry i prefer wined ones more xD & about squad stuffies, stoopid people are all around ,in all honesty i prefer leaving a squad than letting the ppl die as it reflects bad on me as a cleric, thought i can say i very rarely leave a squad, guess i might just have a lot of patience.

Gay_Priest - Raging Tide

From my teaming experience I agree with with what the OP says I've seen some classes with a superman complex rushing ahead of me and tank at times, trying to take on 3+ plus mobs and dying then I get blamed for not healing on time. I don't think most ppl who never had a cleric understand just how frustrating and irritating it is when they do that. I don't care for wined or unwined instances just along as they function as a team. I've got enough to worry about babysitting 5 Hp bars on my screen.

Xentreia - Dreamweaver

StarianNight - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I just wanted to say to the lower lvled clerics out there who have a nice and kind heart that believe they have to keep someone alive even if their own lives on the line, let the newbs die. If you have warned someone more than 3 times and they still do not listen

after healing on many fb's I've learned to let the rushing newbie die early on if they refuse to listen, otherwise when you get to the boss they cause a squad wipe. A rez or 2 makes them pay attention especially when you let them lay there a moment or so.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Its quite simple actually, if you have squad lead (then again though its not hard for a cleric to get squad leader, if someone is annoying your *** in a squad just act all nice to said person once the boss is down to about 10% hp kick said person from the squad.

I had this backfire on the squad once. This was a while ago but I was in a BH69 on my sin, had a barb that only had 8k hp (I had about 5.5k on my sin) and during pyro I unequiped my weapon and got aggro attacking barehanded. He used FR I think twice or something the whole boss and we weren't a quick squad.

Anyways, the cleric insisted "barb is tank" which is why I went barehanded against pyro. Because I wasn't going to get heals and the cleric refused to just bb, even though other squad members were also having trouble managing their aggro from the fail barb. So I said "I can tank pole and nob I just need quicker purify's than the barb would." Sins can't tank, Sins can't tank... So I tanked pole just fine (had purify apos left from my bm, I remember) and just before pole died I got kicked. I got credit, the rest of the squad didn't. That, I blame on the cleric for not working with her squad.

Anyways, I'm pretty straight forward. I tell a person stop. Then I explain why it hurts the squad and warn them. Then I kick. I don't let them get to the boss before I kick or anything. Its just like firing someone, do it when they make the mistake.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I had this backfire on the squad once. This was a while ago but I was in a BH69 on my sin, had a barb that only had 8k hp (I had about 5.5k on my sin) and during pyro I unequiped my weapon and got aggro attacking barehanded. He used FR I think twice or something the whole boss and we weren't a quick squad.

Anyways, the cleric insisted "barb is tank" which is why I went barehanded against pyro. Because I wasn't going to get heals and the cleric refused to just bb, even though other squad members were also having trouble managing their aggro from the fail barb. So I said "I can tank pole and nob I just need quicker purify's than the barb would." Sins can't tank, Sins can't tank... So I tanked pole just fine (had purify apos left from my bm, I remember) and just before pole died I got kicked. I got credit, the rest of the squad didn't. That, I blame on the cleric for not working with her squad.

Anyways, I'm pretty straight forward. I tell a person stop. Then I explain why it hurts the squad and warn them. Then I kick. I don't let them get to the boss before I kick or anything. Its just like firing someone, do it when they make the mistake.

And for that we can thank these forums and the cleric community as whole. When they are constantly being told sin cant tank/etc. Of course they dont think it`s possible. In fact sins are most often the more efficient option to tank and insisting on barb to tank is just failing.

At times I miss WoW, which isnt complicated game by any standard but if healer would there insist on healing tank and not others - The healer would get instant kick from party. Sure raids there are different as there will be set targets for each healer to heal but imo that`s different. Barbs/sins are often seen as egos/divas but if this sort of advice is even given on these forums and agreed to - There really is no competition to the diva class of the game.

Ps. I really should make thread on barb/sin forums of letting clerics die so they learn to not aggro stuff.

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I had this backfire on the squad once. This was a while ago but I was in a BH69 on my sin, had a barb that only had 8k hp (I had about 5.5k on my sin) and during pyro I unequiped my weapon and got aggro attacking barehanded. He used FR I think twice or something the whole boss and we weren't a quick squad.

Anyways, the cleric insisted "barb is tank" which is why I went barehanded against pyro. Because I wasn't going to get heals and the cleric refused to just bb, even though other squad members were also having trouble managing their aggro from the fail barb. So I said "I can tank pole and nob I just need quicker purify's than the barb would." Sins can't tank, Sins can't tank... So I tanked pole just fine (had purify apos left from my bm, I remember) and just before pole died I got kicked. I got credit, the rest of the squad didn't. That, I blame on the cleric for not working with her squad.

Anyways, I'm pretty straight forward. I tell a person stop. Then I explain why it hurts the squad and warn them. Then I kick. I don't let them get to the boss before I kick or anything. Its just like firing someone, do it when they make the mistake.

Squads like that are just ugh -_-

SxeChik - Archosaur

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I had this backfire on the squad once. This was a while ago but I was in a BH69 on my sin, had a barb that only had 8k hp (I had about 5.5k on my sin) and during pyro I unequiped my weapon and got aggro attacking barehanded. He used FR I think twice or something the whole boss and we weren't a quick squad.

Anyways, the cleric insisted "barb is tank" which is why I went barehanded against pyro. Because I wasn't going to get heals and the cleric refused to just bb, even though other squad members were also having trouble managing their aggro from the fail barb. So I said "I can tank pole and nob I just need quicker purify's than the barb would." Sins can't tank, Sins can't tank... So I tanked pole just fine (had purify apos left from my bm, I remember) and just before pole died I got kicked. I got credit, the rest of the squad didn't. That, I blame on the cleric for not working with her squad.

Anyways, I'm pretty straight forward. I tell a person stop. Then I explain why it hurts the squad and warn them. Then I kick. I don't let them get to the boss before I kick or anything. Its just like firing someone, do it when they make the mistake.

Wow! That cleric was a shame! I often go for watever it takes when the tank fails. Stupid cleric that one was, gotta say that again.

SxeChik - Archosaur

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

And for that we can thank these forums and the cleric community as whole. When they are constantly being told sin cant tank/etc. Of course they dont think it`s possible. In fact sins are most often the more efficient option to tank and insisting on barb to tank is just failing.

At times I miss WoW, which isnt complicated game by any standard but if healer would there insist on healing tank and not others - The healer would get instant kick from party. Sure raids there are different as there will be set targets for each healer to heal but imo that`s different. Barbs/sins are often seen as egos/divas but if this sort of advice is even given on these forums and agreed to - There really is no competition to the diva class of the game.

Ps. I really should make thread on barb/sin forums of letting clerics die so they learn to not aggro stuff.

I often get aggro and I don't die. It's the matter of how you control your cleric, NOT whenever you get aggro, you HAVE TO be dead. There are many clerics (newbie i think) don't know how to control their char well, so hence they die. But guess what, don't stereotype! Your PS kinda offended me.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Ps. I really should make thread on barb/sin forums of letting clerics die so they learn to not aggro stuff.

Please make one in the archer/wizard/psychic/veno/cleric forums about waiting to see me attack a mob before they attack it. You know how often I run by a mob to start a pull and watch the mob get ranged as I run by, so now I have to turn around and hunt it down,aggro, kill, and start over. This is why BHs go 1 mob at a time instead of pulling half the instance.

It also seems if I run up to 3 mobs and have a roar in cd so I aoe then Flesh Ream one of them, whichever two I didn't ream yet will be targeted. I don't blame FCC rushing for people losing their ability to assist attack, it's always been an issue. I just blame dumb people for being dumb.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Please make one in the archer/wizard/psychic/veno/cleric forums about waiting to see me attack a mob before they attack it. You know how often I run by a mob to start a pull and watch the mob get ranged as I run by, so now I have to turn around and hunt it down,aggro, kill, and start over. This is why BHs go 1 mob at a time instead of pulling half the instance.

It also seems if I run up to 3 mobs and have a roar in cd so I aoe then Flesh Ream one of them, whichever two I didn't ream yet will be targeted. I don't blame FCC rushing for people losing their ability to assist attack, it's always been an issue. I just blame dumb people for being dumb.

As a barb that`s not such a problem as it`s with a sin... Barb, ream will have "steady" aggro compared to my sin how I run close, rib strike--> Triple spark just to see that caster pulling aggro and basically wasting half my spark. When this stuff happens in 100+ squads, there really is no excuse for it as everybody should of run with aps tanks enough to know not to hit it till tank has started attacking after spark.

Oh and as I just spark bosses/AoE pulls, that failing has good chance of killing the dumb caster resulting into cleric being forced to ress, which can result into wipe with sin tank on harder bosses. I farm 89s for books & learning patterns to be better tank as sin and I can handle most BH100 bosses solo for a time but really, when I`m only 2.22/2.86 aps, wasting sparks like that just hurts.

SxeChik - Archosaur wrote: »

I often get aggro and I don't die. It's the matter of how you control your sin, NOT whenever you get aggro, you HAVE TO be dead. There are many sins (newbie i think) don't know how to control their char well, so hence they die. But guess what, don't stereotype! Your PS kinda offended me.

Fixed it for ya.

You guys with your stereotypes keep us from running instances efficiently as the inexperienced clerics are too scurred and insist with inefficient sht like barb tanking/etc. When I`m on barb, I tend to just debuff and DD on bosses to let the highest aps tank as it`s the most efficient way to go. Debuffing the boss properly, barb can cut so much off the dmg boss is dealing it`s not even funny. Simply hitting my devour macro when I dual my BHs is like lol how much less dmg is that thing doing now & how much more BP is healing.

And I stand by my post-script. It is completely the same as the cleric "teaching a lesson" for others. Usually I sacrifice my sin in order to save cleric if there is any chance of it happening, instead of just stealthing and living myself. Heck, I even added cleric on my FL to mail extra sage books I dont need as he buffed me once when I could not get p.def buff anywhere else. But I do have problem with the attitude that is lurking in this thread, which is why I made example of treating clerics the same way they are suggesting to treat others.

Gay_Priest - Raging Tide

I've personally learned not to stereotype any classes capability of tanking ,my motto is if you can do it fine by me.

Some classes cant help but steal the aggro during a boss battle from the tank. It's up to me to adjust my clericing skills according (BBing or IHing or switching between if and when needed) and I've built my cleric is such a way that I can take a few hits when things go haywire.

But sometimes I do encounter players who do dumb things for reasons I know not why. Maybe they're not aware each class has it's own limitations or they don't know how to properly play the class they choose.