make bp less powerfull?

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13

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  • Prophete - Dreamweaver
    Prophete - Dreamweaver Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Bp is fine as it is.

    Would be more fun if they make bosses hit harder.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    It's amazing how a troll thread devolved into serious talks about nerfing bloodpaint.

    F'n hilarious... and stupid.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Mekkhala - Lost City
    Mekkhala - Lost City Posts: 303 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Bp doesn't do much unless you have a good enough wep/gear to dish out real damage. So I don't really see it as being overpowered (except when I think of a seeker in vortex...that might be tipping the (>.<) scale).

    Ofc, since my main is a ep I am slightly biased. I enjoy bp since it helps take load off my shoulders.
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    jeremyhuff wrote: »
    u guys just need to understand.. every class is meant for there specialty. healers heal, barbs tank, seekers can do a little of everything, mages cast magic, assassins.. kill.... isnt that the point? lol. dont try to make something thats not meant to be weak into something thats just a worthless toon. assassins need bp simply because there squishy. no defense not alot of hp without godly refines and gems. even with a cleric non stop we cant tank like heavy char's so get over it. stop QQing and accept the fact that everything isnt put in this world or Perfect world to make everyone happy. if ur not happy with ur toon then make another toon. stop crying over something thats simply meant to be that way. even if they took away bp made where sins have less then 2 aps hell even took our daggers out of our hands and told us we couldnt use weapons anymore ud still find something to cry about. but either way.. blood paint is a skill for this type of toon. i think get over it.

    1. Do you know, that Archers have same LA as Assassins ?

    2. Why they have not Bloodpaint ?

    3. Do you know, that casters sometimes need to kill mobs and bosses ?

    4. Is it strange for you ?

    Effective Health

    The amount of damage you must deliver to kill something or that something needs to kill you, winds up being health divided by the damage delivered percentage. This simplifies to:

    health / ( 1 - ( defense / ( ( 40 * attacker level ) + defense ) ) ) )

    You should probably be thinking about what this number will be for you in various plausible situations when choosing between defense and health (for example, when comparing between two different shards that cost the same amount, or when choosing between two different belts).


    To choose between Vit, citrine, and garnet shards you will have to make two calculations for every stat/shard combination:

    effective health against physical damage = HP / ( 1 - physical reduction ) / ( 1 - bonus physical reduction from equipment )

    effective health against magical damage = HP / ( 1 - magical reduction )

    'Physical reduction' and 'magical reduction' is physical and magical resistance in decimal form. To calculate effective health for enemies with different levels, put ' physical defense / ( ( 40 * attacker level ) + physical defense ) ' in place of 'physical reduction' and ' magical defense / ( ( 40 * attacker level ) + magical defense ) ' in place of 'magical reduction' in the above formulas.

    Other classes need to heal themselves, buy gems, refines or in other words pay for game more than those, who get health for every hit.

    This is how work disbalance.

    Example:

    Assassin has health 10k

    Wizard has health 10k


    Assassin hit by 3k, but autohealed by ....

    Wizard just hit by 3k.
  • SeverusSnape - Raging Tide
    SeverusSnape - Raging Tide Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    ShadowIH - Raging Tide wrote: »
    1. Do you know, that Archers have same LA as Assassins ?

    2. Why they have not Bloodpaint ?

    3. Do you know, that casters sometimes need to kill mobs and bosses ?

    4. Is it strange for you ?

    That's the point in having diverse classes. Bloodpaint isn't that useful in pvp, so with pve point of view.. archers and sins are both squishy. Archers will have advantage because of being ranged. Their skills are based on keeping distance from target. Sin's skills are helpful for them to survive melee range as they have to be close to targets.
    For archers to be able to avoid melee damage and having ability to gain hp back with each hit might be too much in terms of balance. This in no way means that I consider sins to be balanced either.

    There is no black or white argument of this, you have to look at grey areas. If you want to change aps + bp, then do it in a way that it doesn't revert back to the old days of 20 minutes TT boss fights where barbs and clerics monopolized the best drops. Nerf sin sneak but make them useful in TWs. This new expansion has gear to counter aps in pve and skills to make them more manageable with sins. I feel like sins get the short end of the stick but suggest no change for now since none of us have tried all new skills or have gotten the new gear yet.
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    SeverusSnape - Raging Tide wrote: »
    That's the point in having diverse classes. Bloodpaint isn't that useful in pvp, so with pve point of view.. archers and sins are both squishy. Archers will have advantage because of being ranged. Their skills are based on keeping distance from target. Sin's skills are helpful for them to survive melee range as they have to be close to targets...
    May be Archers more powerful than Assassins at bosses, becase they can keep them at far range ?

    I not saw threads about it at forum yet.

    Edit:
    Some bosses fight melee only as I know.
    And Archers are too weak in melee range.
  • Submariner - Lothranis
    Submariner - Lothranis Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Have to admit, you guys are insane, why dont ask to remove sins from game?
    b:angry
  • Zanryu - Lothranis
    Zanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Submariner - Lothranis wrote: »
    Have to admit, you guys are insane, why dont ask to remove sins from game?

    Yes please. I'm not trolling, remove them. Yes. Yesssssssss.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thanks to the beautiful and talanted Zheii for the sigb:dirty

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    I read the forums naked.
  • Sir_Puma - Raging Tide
    Sir_Puma - Raging Tide Posts: 780 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »


    Other classes need to heal themselves, buy gems, refines or in other words pay for game more than those, who get health for every hit.

    This is how work disbalance.

    Example:

    Assassin has health 10k

    Wizard has health 10k


    Assassin hit by 3k, but autohealed by ....

    Wizard just hit by 3k.

    The cost point of view could be debated..

    With a bit of luck on refining and even if you put 20 immaculates in ur stuff for 1k hp more (ya it's a exemple, i know most put perfects and up...), it's about the same cost as Sage Bloodpaint.

    Sins, as explained earlier in other posts, have mid-low physical def, they do need something to help them survive if they really quest in solo. Just test it (not directed to the one I quote, but to everyone in general), start a sin, don't give him any gear, nor cash.

    Don't powerlevel and tell me you won't be happy to learn BP after (I think) 34 lvls or so relying on ur pots..

    The question is how much it makes them "OP" at high level with high refines and high APS. It can't be fixed really. except maybe by making it 1% and 2% for sage..

    5k damage per hit at 3 APS, would still be 150 hp/sec healing (or 300 hp/sec if sage)..

    And mind you, 5k damage per hit for a a 90+ sin with good refines is low.. That's not even counting the crits, nor sparking..
    Proud supporter of the new expansion. Sure it has it's share of bugs, like any games. But for a pure farmer/grinder, that's a whole lot of new mobs to go beat up b:chuckle
  • SeverusSnape - Raging Tide
    SeverusSnape - Raging Tide Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    May be Archers more powerful than Assassins at bosses, becase they can keep them at far range ?

    I not saw threads about it at forum yet.

    I don't understand what you meant but..b:surrender Doesn't matter at boss. If you have gear, you will be able to tank. You can see examples of this in world chat, people looking for 5 aps sins for nirvana. (( Edit - I don't mean that you need 5 aps to tank, but that gear dictating the ability to get party ))
    In terms of aggro, both archers and sins can easily draw it, but archers can't kite and kill it since their stun etc wont work on it. Here aps comes into play because even before fishy expansion, chezedude soloed TT 3-x because of his aps gear on archer.


    There will always be a class better than others at soloing bosses. End geared sins are the 200$ venos of yesteryears. Not all sins are end geared just as not all venos have herc
  • Namari - Dreamweaver
    Namari - Dreamweaver Posts: 598 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    As per my title, I'm a magic slinger, I love playing caster classes and would not give them up for anything.

    However, I do have a sin that I had a sudden inkling to play lately. So that's what I've been doing. She has about 4.7k hp (thanks to my psy's cube neck and warsong belt), sitting at like 1.62 aps (or something of that sort, it ain't much) and a pair of +3 H&T . She's 86. Without BP, she's a sitting duck against shieldbearers. With BP (and focused mind), she barely gets touched by shieldbearers, until FM wears off, then she takes some pretty nasty hits in which BP doesn't heal all that much.

    Let's say they do something like reduce the healing of BP. My level 86 sin is as if she's level 34 with no BP, because they're so damn squishy that she'd get her *** beat.

    Like I said, I normally play casters; my first main was a wizard (which has this lovely thing called morning dew, which turns into a small HoT when demon, btw). But without BP, a sin might as well not be in game. I'm just saying.
    Censorship is the bane of creativity. Censorship is the bane of personality. Most of all...censorship is the bane of identity.

    My main is Ivy_. I'm better known as Destini. Also known as _Yvi. Yes, I have an identity crisis. b:chuckle

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  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    SeverusSnape - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I don't understand what you meant but..b:surrender Doesn't matter at boss. If you have gear, you will be able to tank. You can see examples of this in world chat, people looking for 5 aps sins for nirvana.
    In terms of aggro, both archers and sins can easily draw it, but archers can't kite and kill it since their stun etc wont work on it. Here aps comes into play because even before fishy expansion, chezedude soloed TT 3-x because of his aps gear on archer.


    There will always be a class better than others at soloing bosses. End geared sins are the 200$ venos of yesteryears. Not all sins are end geared just as not all venos have herc

    This is known to me.

    And this is what I meant in my post about Archers.

    They have not bp as Wizards and other classes (except Assassins).

    Developers could give self healing skill for Assassins, not Bloodpaint.

    So, they could heal themselves once per 6 seconds, like Wizards, for example (casting time+channeling time=6 seconds).
  • Pythe - Dreamweaver
    Pythe - Dreamweaver Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Dragslave - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    BMs.... well BMs need it cause they die on everything w/o it really



    L.O.L. Sorry but I find that statement hilarious.
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    This is known to me.

    And this is what I meant in my post about Archers.

    They have not bp as Wizards and other classes (except Assassins).

    Developers could give self healing skill for Assassins, not Bloodpaint.

    So, they could heal themselves once per 6 seconds, like Wizards, for example (casting time+channeling time=6 seconds).

    Problem with that is Assassins, like other melee classes are not casters. Regenerating health from an attack is not anything new in the rgp genre, its been around for decades. There is nothing the Assassin class does that was not intended, it is exactly how it is explained in its info page. What puts them above other aps-able classes is the lower stat requirements, which is really nothing wrong with that.. it is in the classes behavior. The thing with archers not being able to have bloodpaint, I really cant answer that other than they do not have a melee mastery that I am aware of.
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
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    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Pythe - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    L.O.L. Sorry but I find that statement hilarious.

    Me too, BM's did just fine without it before the RT class, and still do fine now.
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Problem with that is Assassins, like other melee classes are not casters. Regenerating health from an attack is not anything new in the rgp genre, its been around for decades. There is nothing the Assassin class does that was not intended, it is exactly how it is explained in its info page. What puts them above other aps-able classes is the lower stat requirements, which is really nothing wrong with that.. it is in the classes behavior. The thing with archers not being able to have bloodpaint, I really cant answer that other than they do not have a melee mastery that I am aware of.

    Then give Wizards Vampires' ability if you are talking about other rpg games.

    You can remove healing spell then, if Wizards will be able to restore health from wounded enemies.
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Namari - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    Let's say they do something like reduce the healing of BP. My level 86 sin is as if she's level 34 with no BP, because they're so damn squishy that she'd get her *** beat.

    Like I said, I normally play casters; my first main was a wizard (which has this lovely thing called morning dew, which turns into a small HoT when demon, btw). But without BP, a sin might as well not be in game. I'm just saying.

    The sin class does not need bp to survive, it is just an aid. Proper end game gear will allow this. Only time bp becomes a need is in high end soloing(FFSCis not high end soloing). Rib strike will slow most bosses down to where just crabs/genie skills will keep you healed. Only problem I ever had on my sin is when I took on more than I could handle. If you are in a squad and you dd takes agro and you can't tank, use COTD and just be support to the real tank with skills. A sin is more than just auto attacking, just like any other class
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • Zalm - Dreamweaver
    Zalm - Dreamweaver Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    ODANG - Lost City wrote: »
    QQcuzucasterbro?

    YsomuchQQaboutsin? QQmoar plox. Learn2playclassplox.

    WTF? Engrish Prease!
    I don't see people begging for Assassins to come save them.
    I don't see people spamming for BM or Archer buffs in Archosaur.
    I don't see people asking to be revived by Barbs, Seekers, or Psychics.
    You know what I do see?
    'OMG I NEED A CLERIC!'
    'Any clerics nearby that can buff me?'
    'Can you rez me? I need a rez.'
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Then give Wizards Vampires' ability if you are talking about other rpg games.

    You can remove healing spell then, if Wizards will be able to restore health from wounded enemies.

    Wizards in general are the elite of any class(they are a bit dumbed down here though). I was a bit put off by this when I made my first wiz. An example is Wield Thunder for clerics. This type of skill is more towards a wizard than a healer. The type of DD skills seem to have been slipt up a bit between clerics and the wizard class, probaly to help balance the game.

    If this game was in the middle of original development then I would agree, to some type of end game skill that regenerated health on casters on a per hit or over time basis. But adding it in now would somewhat possibly break them. I could be wrong on that, but it would help on their survivability some, but add lazyness to the class as auto attack on sins has done with alot of lazy sins.

    I might be wrong but is there not a skill on one of the newer classes that has a bp type effect when attack by a mob?
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • Zalm - Dreamweaver
    Zalm - Dreamweaver Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

    Assassin has health 10k

    Wizard has health 10k


    Assassin hit by 3k, but autohealed by Bloodpaint

    Wizard just hit by 3k.

    This.
    I don't see people begging for Assassins to come save them.
    I don't see people spamming for BM or Archer buffs in Archosaur.
    I don't see people asking to be revived by Barbs, Seekers, or Psychics.
    You know what I do see?
    'OMG I NEED A CLERIC!'
    'Any clerics nearby that can buff me?'
    'Can you rez me? I need a rez.'
  • Submariner - Lothranis
    Submariner - Lothranis Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
    ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
    ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
    ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
    ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

    You no happy with your char? QQ then, i had a archer... now i have a sin... in future i can have a new OP class... i spend time, alot of it on my char and learned how to play it, both, sin and archer, i suggest you to do the same, learn how to play your char.

    I see it started with sins, now i see QQ'ing about clerics also, this is laughtable

    STOP THIS DAMN KIND OF THREADS

    believe or not, sins had put alot of effort in game, i see... nirvana need high aps, i see fc need a sin, i see BM lf sin buffs "BP" i see you al screaming i need you, but then i see this not even self respect threads and i laugh, and thing,,, why the hell, if they want me why they want to kill me, kill my money spent and kill my time spent on the game, cause sins are OP, on end game geras, like all the other classes. so spent time on game instead of this moron threads.

    Do you even have the game instaled on your computer?

    or you just like to QQ?
    b:angry
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Submariner - Lothranis wrote: »
    ...
    believe or not, sins had put alot of effort in game, i see... nirvana need high aps, i see fc need a sin, i see BM lf sin buffs "BP" i see you al screaming i need you, but then i see this not even self respect threads and i laugh, and thing,,, why the hell, if they want me why they want to kill me, kill my money spent and kill my time spent on the game, cause sins are OP, on end game geras, like all the other classes. so spent time on game instead of this moron threads.

    Do you even have the game instaled on your computer?

    or you just like to QQ?

    Believe or not, I had put alot of efforts in my characters also.

    And I play solo in most cases.

    ....

    And I like to see balanced game.

    Also, I like to see reply from GM if this is possible instead of you who are happy with your tweaked Assassin.
  • victor1337
    victor1337 Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    This thread made me laugh so much...BP is fine as it is, leave it alone.

    Archers have never needed any kind of heal skill to solo all of TT - just bring HP charm and crab meat and away you go, grab some buffs to make it faster.

    Casters don't need any kind of heal skill other than those they already have- casters have always been that way pretty much since the invention of gaming- you hit hard from range, that's your advantage, stop looking for more...
  • Zalm - Dreamweaver
    Zalm - Dreamweaver Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Submariner - Lothranis wrote: »
    I see it started with sins, now i see QQ'ing about clerics also, this is laughtable
    ?

    how is it with clerics now? honestly I dont see anything bad for people to have BP, it makes my job easier. if people like being alone and solo stuff, have no kind of social outing by soloing something, let them. As a cleric, I'm always being called upon to help someone, somewhere, usually by heals/buffs/rez. I dont see people begging for a sin to come save them.
    I don't see people begging for Assassins to come save them.
    I don't see people spamming for BM or Archer buffs in Archosaur.
    I don't see people asking to be revived by Barbs, Seekers, or Psychics.
    You know what I do see?
    'OMG I NEED A CLERIC!'
    'Any clerics nearby that can buff me?'
    'Can you rez me? I need a rez.'
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    victor1337 wrote: »
    ...you hit hard from range, that's your advantage...

    If boss agree with it.

    Like some Damned Gaurnob.
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Zalm - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I dont see people begging for a sin to come save them.

    b:cute
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • Submariner - Lothranis
    Submariner - Lothranis Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Believe or not, I had put alot of efforts in my characters also.

    And I play solo in most cases.

    ....

    And I like to see balanced game.

    Also, I like to see reply from GM if this is possible instead of you who are happy with your tweaked Assassin.

    dont everyone want to see GM's oh GM he stole my aple...
    bet you have no effort... and you play solo? isnt this an online game where the purpose is to play together?
    b:angry
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Submariner - Lothranis wrote: »
    dont everyone want to see GM's oh GM he stole my aple...
    bet you have no effort... and you play solo? isnt this an online game where the purpose is to play together?

    Your bet mean nothing.
  • Submariner - Lothranis
    Submariner - Lothranis Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Zalm - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    how is it with clerics now? honestly I dont see anything bad for people to have BP, it makes my job easier. if people like being alone and solo stuff, have no kind of social outing by soloing something, let them. As a cleric, I'm always being called upon to help someone, somewhere, usually by heals/buffs/rez. I dont see people begging for a sin to come save them.

    Here it is
    Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »
    An example is Wield Thunder for clerics. This type of skill is more towards a wizard than a healer. The type of DD skills seem to have been slipt up a bit between clerics and the wizard class, probaly to help balance the game.
    b:angry
  • Submariner - Lothranis
    Submariner - Lothranis Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Wizards in general are the elite of any class(they are a bit dumbed down here though). I was a bit put off by this when I made my first wiz. An example is Wield Thunder for clerics. This type of skill is more towards a wizard than a healer. The type of DD skills seem to have been slipt up a bit between clerics and the wizard class, probaly to help balance the game.

    If this game was in the middle of original development then I would agree, to some type of end game skill that regenerated health on casters on a per hit or over time basis. But adding it in now would somewhat possibly break them. I could be wrong on that, but it would help on their survivability some, but add lazyness to the class as auto attack on sins has done with alot of lazy sins.

    I might be wrong but is there not a skill on one of the newer classes that has a bp type effect when attack by a mob?

    Sorry, was here instead
    b:angry

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