Why Are Wizards So OP?

FkinMaltaMan - Sanctuary

You still didn't get it Hurrdurr.
gears make no sense. Every class is OP with full end game gear. With the skills Sins will always be the class thats OP. But all you can do is "that class is OP, look at the def and atk with end game gear" GEAR HAS NO MEANING CUZ ALL CLASSES R OP. Except sins? k b:bye

EDIT: Make an argument where geared aren't involved

Arenaceous - Lost City

Yes I am really op. Except for the moments like when I get zerk crit for 9k air to ground by a random R9 +12 sin skill through 10k pdef and 43 def lvl. I'm especially OP because I got so many anti stun skills and don't have to rely on my genie at all. And the good thing about genie spark is that it doesn't get negated in 50% or 66% of the cases by Tidal Protection.

Hurrdurr - Lothranis

Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »

Yes I am really op. Except for the moments like when I get zerk crit for 9k air to ground by a random R9 +12 sin skill through 10k pdef and 43 def lvl. I'm especially OP because I got so many anti stun skills and don't have to rely on my genie at all. And the good thing about genie spark is that it doesn't get negated in 50% or 66% of the cases by Tidal Protection.

The thing is once you get 15k p.def and 80 def levels you are invincible.

Aquireis - Lost City

Hurrdurr - Lothranis wrote: »

The thing is once you get 15k p.def and 80 def levels you are invincible.

lol that is so not true pdef and def lvl aren't gonna do anything for you if your fighting something like a r9 sin. I have seen plenty of sins shard out thier gears with diamonds of tiger to boost thier attack lvl

Arenaceous - Lost City

Yes, truly invincible. Questro is one of the best geared wizards on the server, being full r9 +12, jaded. Cheze is, or maybe was a R9 aps sin with much the same gear but he is using chill of the deep here. Without having teh advantages of a full R9 dph sin

MiniST - Sanctuary

why hasn't hurrdurr been banned yet b:surrender

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary

Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »

Yes, truly invincible. Questro is one of the best geared wizards on the server, being full r9 +12, jaded. Cheze is, or maybe was a R9 aps sin with much the same gear but he is using chill of the deep here. Without having teh advantages of a full R9 dph sin

I see Questro doing undine(Reduce water/fire/earth res by 60%),on Cheze and hitting him with gush,with a R9+12 weapon as you said,and he only deal....a little less than 25% of Cheze Hp,I mean,+12 R9 weapon,60% less water resistence,and less than 25% hp lost?,that's sick.

Its also sad to see that Sin make any ranged squad close ranged with their low cooldown teleports,no matter what,that Questro doesn't seem to be able to keep distance from him for more than 2 secs.

Sins are the only class that's OP,period :O

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

Walks in...Looks at this dumb **** post. Seriously, enough with the fake QQ troll posts. Its getting tired and old...Said what I had to say. Exits stage left, and leaves. >.>

Traz - Dreamweaver

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

I see Questro doing undine(Reduce water/fire/earth res by 60%),on Cheze and hitting him with gush,with a R9+12 weapon as you said,and he only deal....a little less than 25% of Cheze Hp,I mean,+12 R9 weapon,60% less water resistence,and less than 25% hp lost?,that's sick.

Its also sad to see that Sin make any ranged squad close ranged with their low cooldown teleports,no matter what,that Questro doesn't seem to be able to keep distance from him for more than 2 secs.

Sins are the only class that's OP,period :O

Don't even remotely start to say sad, cheze has all +11 / +12 gear he's not some normal sin. He has some crazy HP and resists to start with. Most people Questro would one shot and wreck. It's easy for 99% of sins to get one OP weapon and have sucky gear (which is why they can still be wrecked), but when you get a sin with all around OP gear you get things like cheze. The thing is most OP classes need all around gear. If you get a barb that's geared out like cheze it would be difficult for cheze.

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary

FkinMaltaMan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Every class is OP with decent gear.

Fixed and ^ this... Before that, venoes with even half-decent HP/DEF and a pet that have flesh ream / claw / armor break.

OP gear > Veno > Mystic > everyone else

Arenaceous - Lost City

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Don't even remotely start to say sad, cheze has all +11 / +12 gear he's not some normal sin. He has some crazy HP and resists to start with. Most people Questro would one shot and wreck. It's easy for 99% of sins to get one OP weapon and have sucky gear (which is why they can still be wrecked), but when you get a sin with all around OP gear you get things like cheze. The thing is most OP classes need all around gear. If you get a barb that's geared out like cheze it would be difficult for cheze.

Ofc he is not. But Questro ain't either. As I said, Quetro is full +12, they have equal gear. Yea, Questro would one shot most others, but do you really wanna compare him to people he outgears by a lot and say his class is op because he one shots them? Just look at how they fight, Questro is not bad at his class. But he isn't able to keep the distance, doesn't help that cheze keeps resisting his seals and he hardly got time to channel more than a freaking gush lol... Also cheze isn't even full rank9, now imagine how tanky a full R9 with chezes gear level is.

The best geared (and skilled) full R9 dph sage sin on our server manages to beat the best geared barb on our server on his own without much trouble. And that Barb has his full gear +12 with jades. All of it.

Hexalot - Dreamweaver

Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »

Ofc he is not. But Questro ain't either. As I said, Quetro is full +12, they have equal gear. Yea, Questro would one shot most others, but do you really wanna compare him to people he outgears by a lot and say his class is op because he one shots them? Just look at how they fight, Questro is not bad at his class. But he isn't able to keep the distance, doesn't help that cheze keeps resisting his seals and he hardly got time to channel more than a freaking gush lol... Also cheze isn't even full rank9, now imagine how tanky a full R9 with chezes gear level is.

The best geared (and skilled) full R9 dph sage sin on our server manages to beat the best geared barb on our server on his own without much trouble. And that Barb has his full gear +12 with jades. All of it.

I'm sorry but that Barb must suck donkey balls.

That is all.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »

Ofc he is not. But Questro ain't either. As I said, Quetro is full +12, they have equal gear. Yea, Questro would one shot most others, but do you really wanna compare him to people he outgears by a lot and say his class is op because he one shots them? Just look at how they fight, Questro is not bad at his class. But he isn't able to keep the distance, doesn't help that cheze keeps resisting his seals and he hardly got time to channel more than a freaking gush lol... Also cheze isn't even full rank9, now imagine how tanky a full R9 with chezes gear level is.

The best geared (and skilled) full R9 dph sage sin on our server manages to beat the best geared barb on our server on his own without much trouble. And that Barb has his full gear +12 with jades. All of it.

Full r9 on a class that can have full APS with GoF r9 wouldn't be a better option so I dunno why you would bother to bring that up. It's flat out simple, a sin's purpose is to kill anything quickly quietly and easily. That's the definition of an assassin. They geared a sin in this game to follow that and it does it very well. A wizard is a monster but it's not designed for the same. They all have strengths and weaknesses, but the sins purpose and design overcomes a lot of classes skills / strategies in PK. The only thing I really know that can outweigh the damage of a sin is a barb and it's solid shield / invoke / chi skills. Besides another sin I don't find any other class having a good chance at killing a sin other then a barb.

In terms of the sage sin and barb one, I can't tell you as I haven't see their fights and how skilled the barb is at his class. Maybe he's good but I dunno. I've tanked plenty of r9 sins before, so I'm already questioning that barbs skill level because I'm only +10 gear with no jades (no r9 armor). I think those two classes are the two most OP (besides the even more expensive 5.0 r9 veno build).

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary

It would be interesting to see some PvP videos with R9 Barbs Vs R9 Sins...just to see how long a R9 Barb can resist against such monsters...

And by the way when I said "Sad" I meant,look how stick like a glue a Sin can be on a ranged class,now,image how frustrating is for a Wizard/Archer/any ranged class to have constantly a fish on you.Now image how would be frustrating if Wizards had the skills to force melee classes like BMs/Barbs to ranged attacks,it would be the same:frustrating.
Sins force ranged classes into melee range,which kinda nullifies any effort to keep the frigging distances,you're like a prey in their hands,you can't run away,while they can,at any moment,force stealth away,its really frustrating.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

why hasn't hurrdurr been banned yet b:surrender

Why hasn't PWIQQ been banned yet?

TBH, Hurrdurr is entertaining and funny, PWIQQ is... Not.

MerlinBG - Lothranis

Hurrdurr - Lothranis wrote: »

Why is wizard the most OP class in PWI? At endgame they can have 80+ def levels and 15k+ in each defences. That is ridiculous as it makes them extremely tanky. Just to make them even better at surviving, the devs decided to give them 'distance' shrink, so now even if you get them they can just shrink away.

Wizards also have the best offensive capability. With R9 they have over 90 attack levels and can easily one shot most of the players with a simple undine-gush combo. Against fellow R9 players undine with genie spark on a dex genie means they pretty much debuff the opponent's fire defence to nothing and deals massive damage. If that won't do they have sutra which enables them to channel all 4 ranged fire skills within just 6 seconds. It's OP when a 40k HP barb gets dropped by just one wizard in under 10 seconds.

To make matters worse PWI also gave wizards (demon at least) amazing control skills. The stun of stone rain is comparable to Head Hunt (requires 2 sparks) or Drake's Dash (1 spark). Mountain Seize also carries an AoE stun and also dealing a lot of damage.

All in all this class is definitely broken and I have no respect for anyone who plays this class.

I don't know where you saw 15k in defense. I'm level 85 and my physical defense is not more than 3500 which includes all possible buffs. Without buffs it's about 1900-2000. Higher defenses are magical ones, but even there the highest value I have with buff is 6500+. Wizards may have higher magical defense, but they're no tanks. Due to our low physical defense we can't confront many bosses and being a tank requires exactly this - high physical defense in order to withstand the boss attacks.
However I can't deny that I love using Undine Strike in duel mode in combination of Will of the Phoenix. That combination kills a player before he or she knows what's happening. b:chuckle
I also don't understand why you complain about AOE skills when the most of them are too slow in casting and require 2 sparks, which makes them not good enough for pvp. Mountain seize, Ice Dragon, Blade Storm - these require 2 sparks and their casting time is long enough for you to kill the Wizard at least twice. Even my favourite AOE skill, Dragon Breath, requires 1 spark and is also not that fast as Undine Strike and the Phoenix, which are the real threat for players.

Arenaceous - Lost City

@Traz: I bring it up because a Full R9 sage dph sin is better in pvp than chezes build is. He was half built for PvE. I don't know if there are full R9 sins on DW or how much they PvP, but believe me they are really really scary. Sure a R9 aps sin can kill you quickly, but a full R9 dph sin can kill you just as fast AND it's really really tanky. Just like full R9 archer, but better defensive skills (deaden and tidal). I think almost all of the 105 pvp sins here have changed culti to sage and went full R9.

And you can't just say "the class is desigend for that". Every other class can kill every other class endgame assuming same gear. Sure, some have advantages over others but ultimately the skill decides. Sin being the only exception. And I don't find TWing once a week (if at all) a sufficient excuse for being facerolled in pvp most of the time and not being able to contribute to pve at all at the same time. Sure in group PvP I can still do some serious damage and I am not dying to every sin out there. But that is not because I am that great or op, but because most sins are bad and fall for teh same sh it every time. xD

@Merlin: I have 9500 pdef with just my own buff and my neck is just +9 atm. And what do you think your lvl 79 instant sleep or essential sutra is for if not for getting your ultimates in? You are not running at a prepared target casting bids.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

What the hell is a full jaded +12 R9 barb going to do against a sin with equal gear? Not really much. Hope and pray he can get a perdition to hit? What else is that barb going to be able to do against a sin except die? Sit there and turtle just so it takes twice as long?

Seriously, I have to question the pvp abilities, as well as just the common sense of anyone who thinks otherwise. Seriously, the only people arguing the opposite don't even know, you're just making stupid assumptions.

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver

Pretty sure the full rank 9+12 barb on dreamweaver- zeus- just one shots the sins. At anyrate the barb forum has video of him against rank 9 sin. The rank 9 sin did not win.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Pretty sure the full rank 9+12 barb on dreamweaver- zeus- just one shots the sins. At anyrate the barb forum has video of him against rank 9 sin. The rank 9 sin did not win.

Yeah, I can see a barb getting lucky zerk crit or hitting on arma, but I don't see it happening consistently... with two chars that know how to pvp, sin might have to work hard at killing the barb, but any sin worth their salt should be able to avoid dying to one.

Most of the "fair" PvP fights I've seen include the sin not using stealth or escape. Sure, if you don't let them use those skills, you're more likely to kill them, but that's not really a fair comparison.

Lenestro - Sanctuary

MerlinBG - Lothranis wrote: »

I don't know where you saw 15k in defense. I'm level 85 and my physical defense is not more than 3500 which includes all possible buffs. Without buffs it's about 1900-2000. Higher defenses are magical ones, but even there the highest value I have with buff is 6500+. Wizards may have higher magical defense, but they're no tanks. Due to our low physical defense we can't confront many bosses and being a tank requires exactly this - high physical defense in order to withstand the boss attacks.
However I can't deny that I love using Undine Strike in duel mode in combination of Will of the Phoenix. That combination kills a player before he or she knows what's happening. b:chuckle
I also don't understand why you complain about AOE skills when the most of them are too slow in casting and require 2 sparks, which makes them not good enough for pvp. Mountain seize, Ice Dragon, Blade Storm - these require 2 sparks and their casting time is long enough for you to kill the Wizard at least twice. Even my favourite AOE skill, Dragon Breath, requires 1 spark and is also not that fast as Undine Strike and the Phoenix, which are the real threat for players.

lol, i see youre new, so i guess we'll start that the beginning.

-15k pdef is very achievable with arcane armor, but these guys are talkin about super endgame, so full r9 +10-12.
-im level 90 with **** gears, but i can tank every fb from 19-59. i can do all but 51 without a cleric.
- undine/ WoP is good for dueling cus theyres no charm involved, and you rely basically entirely on dps, but we need our 2 spark skills to bypass someones charm, which requires us to use a skill that can take out at least 50% of someones hp.
- the dps of the ultis is not very good, but wiz is not a dps class, which is why we suck so hard in pve. You cant completely understand the viability of our 2 spark ultis until the level 11 ones.
-yes they cost 2 sparks, but our job in TW is more or less to gain chi and spam them.

good day sir.

BloodyThorns - Heavens Tear

oxytorch wrote: »

Is this the dude that did the Clerics OP thread

No, he's the dude that did the "Sins DO NOT need a nerf" thread, which btw was closed by a mod. XD

Traz - Dreamweaver

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

What the hell is a full jaded +12 R9 barb going to do against a sin with equal gear? Not really much. Hope and pray he can get a perdition to hit? What else is that barb going to be able to do against a sin except die? Sit there and turtle just so it takes twice as long?

Seriously, I have to question the pvp abilities, as well as just the common sense of anyone who thinks otherwise. Seriously, the only people arguing the opposite don't even know, you're just making stupid assumptions.

It might take us awhile but with G16 pdef neck to go with the jades and +12 gear, sins would need some hellish luck to be able to do enough damage (60k with charm tick). That's assuming we don't have solid shield or invoke to go on top of that. I've seen zeus (while horrible skill) tank 3 sins and even though it's pathetically skilled, the amount of damage that can be absorbed makes it nearly impossible for one r9 sin to kill him. I was about a 2:1 when I fought all +10 geared sins to match my gear. Some days I wish I was on LC with my barb so I can really test out my skills but what can you do.

b:pleased