To aps or not to aps

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

I was wondering if i should restatt my barb to aps.
Current gear - http://pwcalc.com/6f55fa007fd88755
Eventual aps gear - http://pwcalc.com/e80591600713eef2
Which do you guys think would be beter taking into consideration the current state of the game?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Unless your pulling a cata then there isn't a reason not to go aps. I did 3-3 and full Deltas uncharmed with 10k less hp than that gear so you should be fine to do everything you need to.

I said it before, aps barbs have more survivability and are better tanks. Both at holding aggro, and taking damage. They're simply more versatile and give playstyle options. A more "complete" barb. Back in the old days the "old school" barbs had to stat vitality because TT99 was the best gear in the game, orbs sales were rare and +6 was considered highly refined, but those days are gone and barbs are no longer needed to specialize in pure hp to tank simple things. They can branch out and have awesome hp and awesome damage and contribute more to the squad than just buffs, all without losing the ability to be a "meat shield."

BloodTyrant - Raging Tide

i ****** hate you sakuba, you ALWAYS say everything that i wanna say b:laugh



well, if it helps, im one of the best barbs in terms of aps in my server, due to my experience being aps barb since begin of 2009, maybe one of the best PVPer and i can hold the cata for a great period while being atked. it's not only your gear, but who's playing your barb, if you're high experienced, you can solo a emperor with 14k hp, wb's with bloodpaint, and even kill r9 in pk. so if you going aps build, try to get the more experience you can

thumbs

I know some clerics complain a lot about aps barbs for lack of survivability. I also wonder if people ignore the utility of AoE vs 1-1 any more. As a Mystic in Brimstone; I asked a squad "does no one AoE anymore?" - Got the reply: " does no one lure anymore". -That was from a Wiz ffs! -The one class that is major obsolete for PvE if not AoE'ing!

So, just curious... An Aps barb can round up as many mobs in VoS, FF, SoT, Abaddon and AoE them, and tank them as good as a str, or vit barb? An Aps Barb can round up mobs in Rebirth as well?

ItsAWolf - Archosaur

thumbs wrote: »

I know some clerics complain a lot about aps barbs for lack of survivability. I also wonder if people ignore the utility of AoE vs 1-1 any more. As a Mystic in Brimstone; I asked a squad "does no one AoE anymore?" - Got the reply: " does no one lure anymore". -That was from a Wiz ffs! -The one class that is major obsolete for PvE if not AoE'ing!

So, just curious... An Aps barb can round up as many mobs in VoS, FF, SoT, Abaddon and AoE them, and tank them as good as a str, or vit barb? An Aps Barb can round up mobs in Rebirth as well?

Why not? there's only a slight difference in hp, easily offset with a bit better gear (which is easier to get as APS) It's not like they magically lose all their skills.

Blaxton - Raging Tide

Go for it! b:victory

It only adds another way to play, doesn't take away anything.

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

Time for me to farm some aps gear b:surrender
Thanks everyone for the advice.

HadesHound - Raging Tide

I will add my recommendation to go aps. Just yesterday, had a certain critter had to take on, and I did fine dispatching him in about a minute. After the monster respawned, this 5aps Barb walks up, and in 5 swipes, the monster is dead! I was like O_O

Yeah, So many out there claim barbs are dead, and Sins are the new golden boys on the block (or Seekers or BM's...) but that one second attack was proof enough to me that Barbs STILL Rule!

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

thumbs wrote: »

I know some clerics complain a lot about aps barbs for lack of survivability. I also wonder if people ignore the utility of AoE vs 1-1 any more. As a Mystic in Brimstone; I asked a squad "does no one AoE anymore?" - Got the reply: " does no one lure anymore". -That was from a Wiz ffs! -The one class that is major obsolete for PvE if not AoE'ing!

So, just curious... An Aps barb can round up as many mobs in VoS, FF, SoT, Abaddon and AoE them, and tank them as good as a str, or vit barb? An Aps Barb can round up mobs in Rebirth as well?

The difference is about 1500hp between a vit barb and an aps barb, but aps barbs have a much easier time farming. The issue is alot of barbs switch to aps (or try to go aps from level 1) too early before they have their gear refined enough to cover the hp loss. I joined a metal squad a bit ago "LF tank" and found out it was a barb recruiting the tank, lol. He was "aps" (2.5 or something) and had +1-2 on all his gear and only about 7.5k hp standing. This guy shouldn't have switched. But, even if he was a vit barb that'd still only be 9k hp and useless. Refines count so much more than stat points when talking endgame hp, so you may as well invest those points in other ways that makes your barb more usefull (accuracy, weapon choices, damage, defenses).

And yes, pulling is still no problem as an aps barb because we switch to axes and tiger form and are basically a strength barb. Plus, most aps barbs have about 70 vitality although once I get about 22k hp I'm going to restat that into strength too. Defenses and taking less damage are better than hp imo.

thumbs

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

The difference is about 1500hp between a vit barb and an aps barb, but aps barbs have a much easier time farming. The issue is alot of barbs switch to aps (or try to go aps from level 1) too early before they have their gear refined enough to cover the hp loss. I joined a metal squad a bit ago "LF tank" and found out it was a barb recruiting the tank, lol. He was "aps" (2.5 or something) and had +1-2 on all his gear and only about 7.5k hp standing. This guy shouldn't have switched. But, even if he was a vit barb that'd still only be 9k hp and useless. Refines count so much more than stat points when talking endgame hp, so you may as well invest those points in other ways that makes your barb more usefull (accuracy, weapon choices, damage, defenses).

And yes, pulling is still no problem as an aps barb because we switch to axes and tiger form and are basically a strength barb. Plus, most aps barbs have about 70 vitality although once I get about 22k hp I'm going to restat that into strength too. Defenses and taking less damage are better than hp imo.

Very good post!

I don't *think* I need an aps barb to farm. -I have a 4.0 base sage sin for 1-1. If I was to farm with my Barb; I think it would be for boss cards for the Assassin to use. In that case; it would be rounding up many mobs to AoE on a toon that could do it with little investment. .

Since I have no other HA toons to share equips with: I'm also shy of investing much into my Barb atm. -Aps barb still the way to go?


"Refines count so much more than stat points when talking endgame hp, so you may as well invest those points in other ways that makes your barb more usefull (accuracy, weapon choices, damage, defenses)."

-I totally agree and see this for most if not all other classes, but Barb's Armageddon, and HP recovery are affected by vit. Accuracy seems a minute issue since all pdef reducing skills (including our own Devour) seem to cause ACC to be 100% until the mob is dead (however that is 1-1 for most pdef reducing skills -(mystics Befuddling Creaper, Veno's Fox Myriad, etc being exceptions).

Is Aps indisputably the way to go?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Its hard to say. For PvE, yes, as long as you have 15k+ hp when you make the switch. Pwcalc.com it out and see. For pulling a cata, no, because your attack and chi building means very little. For PvP its a real toss up and there are perks to aps, vit builds, or strength builds. The best PvP barbs I know are claw builds, but use them a fraction of the time and so their PvP style comes off more as a strength build barb until that crucial moment when they "wtf" you and stun, claw, dead. That doesn't mean its the best build, it just means they have that extra trick up their sleaves (goes off to hunt RoidAbuse's video... Here it is)

Anyways, it all comes down to playstyle. If you can have 15k hp and are mostly PvE, my vote is aps barb since I see no reason not to. If you pull a cata, vit barb. PvP... up to you.

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

The difference is about 1500hp between a vit barb and an aps barb, but aps barbs have a much easier time farming. The issue is alot of barbs switch to aps (or try to go aps from level 1) too early before they have their gear refined enough to cover the hp loss. I joined a metal squad a bit ago "LF tank" and found out it was a barb recruiting the tank, lol. He was "aps" (2.5 or something) and had +1-2 on all his gear and only about 7.5k hp standing. This guy shouldn't have switched. But, even if he was a vit barb that'd still only be 9k hp and useless. Refines count so much more than stat points when talking endgame hp, so you may as well invest those points in other ways that makes your barb more usefull (accuracy, weapon choices, damage, defenses).

And yes, pulling is still no problem as an aps barb because we switch to axes and tiger form and are basically a strength barb. Plus, most aps barbs have about 70 vitality although once I get about 22k hp I'm going to restat that into strength too. Defenses and taking less damage are better than hp imo.

this is a lie when i go dex ill lose 7k hp from my vit build to dex claw barb so do not give away fail info
unless from 22k human standing to 15k human standing is considered 1500 hp.

Traz - Dreamweaver

_Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »

this is a lie when i go dex ill lose 7k hp from my vit build to dex claw barb so do not give away fail info
unless from 22k human standing to 15k human standing is considered 1500 hp.

I have 6k less buffed in tiger. The point is once refined to +10 that 6k is only useful for a cata barb (maybe). There is no point in me having 33k vs my 27k I have now and I gain an insane amount of DPS.

PS the build I'm working on for PVE is 29k standing 5.0 base sage barb.

Empu - Sanctuary

Just my 2 cents :

After trying out aps barb, I actually went back to old-school vit build. I won't say aps barb is bad, I simply think it's more about playstyle then any argument on hp or dps. I found the fists usefull in only a few situations, which just didn't justify loosing 6~7k hp. My opinion (based on the squads I was in and the other toons I have) is that fists were only usefull on easy bosses or with good squads where my presance would only mean a difference of a few sec anyway. I also hated survivability in humanoide with fists, even with sage bp and +11 G15 nirvana fists. In most situations I ended up in tiger anyway, either cause it was needed survivability wise or because devour > shapeshift > spark > no boss left to poke.

I know many love aps barbs, but I was dissapointed because of the uselesness of the fists. I found that what makes a barb usefull in squad is buffs and devour, which can be used with any build. Maybe the popularity is also related to the fact that most squads are killing stuff 1 by 1, or I just suck as fist barb xD

ItsAWolf - Archosaur

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just my 2 cents :

After trying out aps barb, I actually went back to old-school vit build. I won't say aps barb is bad, I simply think it's more about playstyle then any argument on hp or dps. I found the fists usefull in only a few situations, which just didn't justify loosing 6~7k hp. My opinion (based on the squads I was in and the other toons I have) is that fists were only usefull on easy bosses or with good squads where my presance would only mean a difference of a few sec anyway. I also hated survivability in humanoide with fists, even with sage bp and +11 G15 nirvana fists. In most situations I ended up in tiger anyway, either cause it was needed survivability wise or because devour > shapeshift > spark > no boss left to poke.

I know many love aps barbs, but I was dissapointed because of the uselesness of the fists. I found that what makes a barb usefull in squad is buffs and devour, which can be used with any build. Maybe the popularity is also related to the fact that most squads are killing stuff 1 by 1, or I just suck as fist barb xD

I suppose if you mostly play in squads, then the usefulness of being fist diminishes by quite a bit. I personally mostly duo with a cleric, or help others with their lower bhs or TTs. Being a clawbarb makes it much easier and faster to help people and to solo or duo the things I need. If you're used to playing in squads with sins or other APS chars, then you won't really notice much of a difference in killing speed of course.

thumbs

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just my 2 cents :

After trying out aps barb, I actually went back to old-school vit build. I won't say aps barb is bad, I simply think it's more about playstyle then any argument on hp or dps. I found the fists usefull in only a few situations, which just didn't justify loosing 6~7k hp. My opinion (based on the squads I was in and the other toons I have) is that fists were only usefull on easy bosses or with good squads where my presance would only mean a difference of a few sec anyway. I also hated survivability in humanoide with fists, even with sage bp and +11 G15 nirvana fists. In most situations I ended up in tiger anyway, either cause it was needed survivability wise or because devour > shapeshift > spark > no boss left to poke.

I know many love aps barbs, but I was dissapointed because of the uselesness of the fists. I found that what makes a barb usefull in squad is buffs and devour, which can be used with any build. Maybe the popularity is also related to the fact that most squads are killing stuff 1 by 1, or I just suck as fist barb xD

-Nice! I've liked running with aps barbs in Nirvana for the buffs, but also noticed they're not or rarely using Devour.

ItsAWolf - Archosaur

thumbs wrote: »

-Nice! I've liked running with aps barbs in Nirvana for the buffs, but also noticed they're not or rarely using Devour.

yeah takes about 4 seconds or so to switch tiger, devour then switch back. Get more benefit from using penetrate armour really as it doesn't require all the switching around and losing a lot of time that way. Devour is nice for opening the fight with with though.

Blaxton - Raging Tide

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just my 2 cents :

After trying out aps barb, I actually went back to old-school vit build. I won't say aps barb is bad, I simply think it's more about playstyle then any argument on hp or dps. I found the fists usefull in only a few situations, which just didn't justify loosing 6~7k hp. My opinion (based on the squads I was in and the other toons I have) is that fists were only usefull on easy bosses or with good squads where my presance would only mean a difference of a few sec anyway. I also hated survivability in humanoide with fists, even with sage bp and +11 G15 nirvana fists. In most situations I ended up in tiger anyway, either cause it was needed survivability wise or because devour > shapeshift > spark > no boss left to poke.

I know many love aps barbs, but I was dissapointed because of the uselesness of the fists. I found that what makes a barb usefull in squad is buffs and devour, which can be used with any build. Maybe the popularity is also related to the fact that most squads are killing stuff 1 by 1, or I just suck as fist barb xD

Survivability? Are you used to having squads that just own the boss before it can touch anyone? xD

My 2.86 sparked sin friend and I duo'd Cannonfist once, when the squad left and we still needed it. Invoke works the same whether aps or not. I would not have been able to build up the chi to Invoke again if I had been trying to flesh ream tank to keep aggro off my friend, and even if I could, forget about seeing a triple spark.

Also, I really think aps barbs are for people that love barb as a class but want a farming character without having to re-roll. Doesn't matter the reason. I can solo, tank/DD, buff/debuff, pull tons of mobs, drop an arma on them, all the fun stuff. Unless a Cata barb, all that extra hp only makes certain things easier, but not impossible.



When soloing some squad mode tts I've been trying something. At the end of the spark, switch to hammer>true form>triple spark>devour>true form>claws>auto attack. This way the 3 second cooldown of true form is stacked with the 3 seconds of invincibility from the spark. Not sure if that makes much of a difference... and I don't know if that'd work in Nirvana, though, with the seals. Haven't tried it there.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

_Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »

this is a lie when i go dex ill lose 7k hp from my vit build to dex claw barb so do not give away fail info
unless from 22k human standing to 15k human standing is considered 1500 hp.

Typically takes about 150 vit points to dex, sometimes less (I found a high dex vit build was better for tanking when I was a vit build anyways, so I had 100 green dex already and needed another 100.) If you can explain how 150 vit gives you 7k hp I'd be interested. Post your build and we'll upgrade it for you

thumbs wrote: »

-Nice! I've liked running with aps barbs in Nirvana for the buffs, but also noticed they're not or rarely using Devour.

I start out with a devour (100%) accuracy and then instant switch to human, trip spark and change to claws. It literally is no time lost (maybe .2 seconds?). I get 2.4spark then demon PA, and then PA every 10 seconds. The difference of 35% PA and 50% devour is only about 7% dmg but I don't waste time changing to tiger and can keep a 5 aps triple spark going making up the difference. Also, PA is an aggro skill and is reasonably effective when combined with 5 aps at keeping aggro over even sins that out DD you.

If I ever go tiger form (lets say I need to run from a phoenix fire, or from shouting boss) then I always come back and start with a devour. However I don't drop to tiger just to devour.

This is one place sage are superior to demon. They get a 45% PA making it about 2% difference from Devour, which is negligable.

Empu - Sanctuary

ItsAWolf - Archosaur wrote: »

I suppose if you mostly play in squads, then the usefulness of being fist diminishes by quite a bit. I personally mostly duo with a cleric, or help others with their lower bhs or TTs. Being a clawbarb makes it much easier and faster to help people and to solo or duo the things I need. If you're used to playing in squads with sins or other APS chars, then you won't really notice much of a difference in killing speed of course.

Yeah, that is the reason why I made the precision that it's related to my situation. I just thought it would be good to show that not everyone loves aps barbs. I've been 4 aps sage (without windshield ofc) for a few months. With damn good fists and good armor, I still hated that build and found the 6~7k hp sacrifice not worth it for fists I barely used.

Blaxton - Raging Tide wrote: »

Survivability? Are you used to having squads that just own the boss before it can touch anyone? xD

Also, I really think aps barbs are for people that love barb as a class but want a farming character without having to re-roll. Doesn't matter the reason. I can solo, tank/DD, buff/debuff, pull tons of mobs, drop an arma on them, all the fun stuff. Unless a Cata barb, all that extra hp only makes certain things easier, but not impossible.

Actually that is what I used to think when I decided to restat my barb to a fist build. Probably related to my situation like I said above, but I found the fists use really limited. To keep it short, I found :
- on mobs fists are worthless cause you're always faster pulling groups and aoe them (unfortunately I found that even in easy places like aba and seat, ppl start to kill mobs 1 by 1)
- normal lvl bosses drop fast no matter what squad you have (well as long as ppl have at least tt99 with +2/3 refined weapon)
- without bp, fists really sucks big time
- on a lvl? boss with a slower squad, the sin that will get aggro even if less geared, often needs you to grab "aggro" for a split sec every now and then
- on a lvl? boss with a fast squad when you are basicly there for buffs, spamming devour or devour > shift > spark > poke really doesn't make any noticeable difference

Basicly I concluded that fists are only usefull in nirvana if squad is average (meaning sin can tank normally but squad isn't killing bosses in a matter of seconds), and maybe if you want to solo things when you don't have a bm or sin. Note that I have a sin that can solo pretty much any boss in less time then my barb ever could. I sometimes use my barb next to my sin to dual a boss, in which case I actually prefer tiger to position the boss and just spam devour.

Bottom line is : after trying out a fist barb, I was dissapointed and can't see why ppl think it's so great. With all the need to shapeshift, even if it's supposed to be instant, you actually waste more time then you gain killing stuff. Ofc, it's just a personal opinion from someone who doesn't consider nirvana as an instance worth to dedicate a characters build too. Now I think : "just make a bm", but everyone does what he/she wants.

Blaxton - Raging Tide

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ofc, it's just a personal opinion from someone who doesn't consider nirvana as an instance worth to dedicate a characters build too.

That's why I haven't rolled a sin or bm yet. b:chuckle
I think without bp, any aps character would be hurting, unless killing something that doesn't hit hard and/or can be dropped fast.

But no, it's cool that you tried it for yourself. What better way to see if it's worth it to you personally than to experience it. What's great for me is that I can be on my barb all the time because I love barb.

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

na i have now a base of 3 vit 55dex and all the stats i could put on STR wish was 457 i think and looking for tome with str and anything with str on it.

green at 517 str.

i love it i am 17k standing with my lv10 hp buff 18k with lv11 buff

now wish would be the best dd axe aside from r9 i have a +7 r8 hammer but i saw dual nirvana axes with higher base damage and they look cooler.

wisl will fit better for my barb recast my r8 hammers or get a good nirvana dual axe.

LaYsDiL - Harshlands

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

The difference is about 1500hp between a vit barb and an aps barb, but aps barbs have a much easier time farming. The issue is alot of barbs switch to aps (or try to go aps from level 1) too early before they have their gear refined enough to cover the hp loss. I joined a metal squad a bit ago "LF tank" and found out it was a barb recruiting the tank, lol. He was "aps" (2.5 or something) and had +1-2 on all his gear and only about 7.5k hp standing. This guy shouldn't have switched. But, even if he was a vit barb that'd still only be 9k hp and useless. Refines count so much more than stat points when talking endgame hp, so you may as well invest those points in other ways that makes your barb more usefull (accuracy, weapon choices, damage, defenses).

And yes, pulling is still no problem as an aps barb because we switch to axes and tiger form and are basically a strength barb. Plus, most aps barbs have about 70 vitality although once I get about 22k hp I'm going to restat that into strength too. Defenses and taking less damage are better than hp imo.

i would love to know how the diffrence is 1.5k more like 6 or 7k and a big cut on pdef... I also find it rude how on every fourm i see you trying to convince ppl to aps...its a play style and i see your main is a bm...of course u with a msin bm has a play style as an aps barb but really ive tried it had +10 fists and had some of my r9 and found myself still in tiger...and about tanking better...do you mean relying on bp and focusing a single unit?

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide

LaYsDiL - Harshlands wrote: »

i would love to know how the diffrence is 1.5k more like 6 or 7k and a big cut on pdef... I also find it rude how on every fourm i see you trying to convince ppl to aps...its a play style and i see your main is a bm...of course u with a msin bm has a play style as an aps barb but really ive tried it had +10 fists and had some of my r9 and found myself still in tiger...and about tanking better...do you mean relying on bp and focusing a single unit?

Well when I made the switch thats exactly what the difference was. 1.5k HP. I suppose if your dropping from r9+10 to TT99 to get the interval then yeah, you're going to lose a lot more. But everywhere that aps barbs are promoted I also see it warned to make sure they have the APPROPRIATE gear replacements before making the switch.

And I find it rude that you would bash another's preference and opinion. Saku doesn't do that. He supports his play style and encourages others to try it. He doesn't force it upon them and insult them if they do not choose it, lol.

And it's nice that you tried it. Maybe it just didn't fit your play style. Maybe you failed at understanding how to play it efficiently. Either way, it wasn't for you, so maybe you would be better off not reading anything related to a barb going aps b:bye

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

LaYsDiL - Harshlands wrote: »

i would love to know how the diffrence is 1.5k more like 6 or 7k and a big cut on pdef... I also find it rude how on every fourm i see you trying to convince ppl to aps...its a play style and i see your main is a bm...of course u with a msin bm has a play style as an aps barb but really ive tried it had +10 fists and had some of my r9 and found myself still in tiger...and about tanking better...do you mean relying on bp and focusing a single unit?

My cleric was my main for a long time, then I switched to barb and that became my main. I started playing BM because it seemed to be a more complex style of gameplay with more skill options. I didn't decide to go aps barb until around level 85 and waited till level 100 to restat because I was feeling pretty useless in squads. I also preferred running with aps barbs because I felt they had more to offer a squad and felt like as an "old school" barb I was along for the ride. Now I have about 5 "mains". Am I only supposed to have one?

14149, 17181 Aps barb with 2 LA armor pieces http://pwcalc.com/338c87521d7577d6
That's basically my current build and I could pull back on the strength and add it to vitality a little more or swap piece for more hp.

Wanted to add in that the switch from vit to aps barb is typically done at 90 to 100, not at 100 with +7-8 gear like my example above, so the normal loss when switching is typically 1-3k.

17132, 21546 with 202 pure vitality and pure HA http://pwcalc.com/41e0415315c652ce

2983 hp standing difference and I said around -2k if you go pure. That's nowhere near the gear setup a pure would use, but its somewhat comparable. Start adding refines and the difference grows, start removing hp shards and vit shards and upgrading to JoSD and the difference shrinks.

I was using about 110 vit difference x 18 hp x 1.35 lvl 11 barb buff = 2673 hp. The rest is all difference in gear preference and can be fixed during gear swapping.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

I only lose about 3k ish hp in tigerform with my current stat set-up as an APS barb.. It's definitely more fun than pure vit to me. Though, I've been thinking about trying a full-out strength barb just for giggles.

Deago - Lost City

This is my current state as an aps barb.
http://pwcalc.com/44b015f58b074b7c i built my barb as a vit barb before i conformed and switched to claws for nv, after i realized i enjoyed being aps and stuck with it. I can still pull just as well as any vit barb out there and i can still tank just the same.

My barb is far from being done this is how my barb will look once done with both claws and axe.

http://pwcalc.com/3b3b10581d759306 (this is complete with claws)

http://pwcalc.com/69ffd15c67169a45 (this is complete with r9 axe)

This build is quite expensive and it is not recommended for everyone.

Please remember the last two builds you see are when Im fully done with my gear.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Deago - Lost City wrote: »

This is my current state as an aps barb.
http://pwcalc.com/44b015f58b074b7c i built my barb as a vit barb before i conformed and switched to claws for nv, after i realized i enjoyed being aps and stuck with it. I can still pull just as well as any vit barb out there and i can still tank just the same.

My barb is far from being done this is how my barb will look once done with both claws and axe.

http://pwcalc.com/3b3b10581d759306 (this is complete with claws)

http://pwcalc.com/69ffd15c67169a45 (this is complete with r9 axe)

This build is quite expensive and it is not recommended for everyone.

Please remember the last two builds you see are when Im fully done with my gear.

Imagining this is possible, here is about my endgame http://pwcalc.com/fa77293764497cca self buffed with R9 axes/boots/wrists on switch. Think of PvP when you can soul infect someone, and get them to about 60% hp with fists then switch to axes for the zerk bombs.

I'm still not crazy about LA ornies. We have the argument in the BM forums about 2 piece LA wrists/boots, 2 piece LA ornies, or wait till you have a tome and then be 3.33 base and giveup on G15s. Barbs have a better argument for LA ornies because they get more hp from the HA wrist and boots refines as well as always having a barb buff, but they also have a worse counter argument because they end up short on defenses from not refining wrist and boots. And the ornie refines would get multiplied when in tiger form.

Personally, I think defense>>HP, especially with paint heals because its easier to keep full when you take less damage, but to each their own.

Deago - Lost City

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Imagining this is possible, here is about my endgame http://pwcalc.com/fa77293764497cca self buffed with R9 axes/boots/wrists on switch. Think of PvP when you can soul infect someone, and get them to about 60% hp with fists then switch to axes for the zerk bombs.

I'm still not crazy about LA ornies. We have the argument in the BM forums about 2 piece LA wrists/boots, 2 piece LA ornies, or wait till you have a tome and then be 3.33 base and giveup on G15s. Barbs have a better argument for LA ornies because they get more hp from the HA wrist and boots refines as well as always having a barb buff, but they also have a worse counter argument because they end up short on defenses from not refining wrist and boots. And the ornie refines would get multiplied when in tiger form.

Personally, I think defense>>HP, especially with paint heals because its easier to keep full when you take less damage, but to each their own.

I personally dont mind the LA ornaments just cause with bm buff i get about 15k def (is demon) its not to bad just my legs are to much of a hassle to second cast due to the refines and shards and chiekens arnt cheap. So for now its good maybe in the future ill do it.

LaYsDiL - Harshlands

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

My cleric was my main for a long time, then I switched to barb and that became my main. I started playing BM because it seemed to be a more complex style of gameplay with more skill options. I didn't decide to go aps barb until around level 85 and waited till level 100 to restat because I was feeling pretty useless in squads. I also preferred running with aps barbs because I felt they had more to offer a squad and felt like as an "old school" barb I was along for the ride. Now I have about 5 "mains". Am I only supposed to have one?

14149, 17181 Aps barb with 2 LA armor pieces http://pwcalc.com/338c87521d7577d6
That's basically my current build and I could pull back on the strength and add it to vitality a little more or swap piece for more hp.

Wanted to add in that the switch from vit to aps barb is typically done at 90 to 100, not at 100 with +7-8 gear like my example above, so the normal loss when switching is typically 1-3k.

17132, 21546 with 202 pure vitality and pure HA http://pwcalc.com/41e0415315c652ce

2983 hp standing difference and I said around -2k if you go pure. That's nowhere near the gear setup a pure would use, but its somewhat comparable. Start adding refines and the difference grows, start removing hp shards and vit shards and upgrading to JoSD and the difference shrinks.

I was using about 110 vit difference x 18 hp x 1.35 lvl 11 barb buff = 2673 hp. The rest is all difference in gear preference and can be fixed during gear swapping.

oh ok i didnt know that the switch should be done at level 90-100...i can see why i lost 6k hp...and tell me how an aps barb would be better in pvp cause thats basicly all i do...if u can give me a good reasion i will concider going back cause when i pvped with aps i got owned by ppl that i usually drop in matter of seconds

Deago - Lost City

When pvping with claws on a barb your going to get ra,ped a lot since we have no skills or stun locks from stopping them from moving or preventing our next skill. The best idea i have for you is....

oncault ice - triple spark - mighty swing - switch to claws and ****

(if you genie has enough str oncault shouldnt miss and with enough hp on the genie you can cast it twice)