Weapon Proc Rates

Traz - Dreamweaver

pwdatabase guy wrote:

Hi, Traz.

I don't think that they have some special percents for this values. Because there are no data like this in elements. Most probably rate is 1/N where N is amount of possible statuses.

Still working on in my head the 1 / N reference but I'm still talking to him about this so far and I'll make sure to report whatever we can (mainly he can) figure out.

Currently I asked him if there is any evidence he can find where the % chance it procs is built into the individual weapons. The example I used is G15 nirvana claws vs sword. Maybe the proc for claws is 10% and the sword it's 15% due to atk speed differences. I'll see what he replies with.

EDIT: The more I read that the more I get the feeling he thinks I mean what's the chance of getting the proc rolled on the weapon. I will have to clarify this sooo off to email again.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

EDIT: The more I read that the more I get the feeling he thinks I mean what's the chance of getting the proc rolled on the weapon. I will have to clarify this sooo off to email again.

That is the impression I am getting from his response as well.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That is the impression I am getting from his response as well.

False alarm that was om response to me asking if he can break down random stats on something like heavy armor G15 nirvy leggings that say 6-10 strength. I was asking if he could break that down further. For instance:

6-10 Strength - 100%

• -6 Strength - 12.5%
• -7 Strength - 25%
• -8 Strength - 25%
• -9 Strength - 25%
• -10 Strength - 12.5%

This way we know how many times to expect to use 2 canny b:shutup

I gave him a much more detailed reply. He said he would have to reverse engineer some stuff on the server and he will try and look at it further. Fingers crossed I really want to know if re-rolling G15 nirvy axes for GoF is worth the millions in raptures. Knowing PWI this "higher chance" is like 5% more. b:sad

EDIT: Latest thing I sent, hopefully I get a reply soon

I appreciate your time you have spent on this and I hope you will be willing to spend the time to fully figure out the weapon activation percentages. In regards to armor stat randoms, I assumed that the % chance for the strength was even 20% each (1 / N), but knowing PWE I would not be surprised if getting the max stat attribute was more difficult then the rest.

In regards to not thinking about weapon activation percentages, most people don't really think about "I wonder how often my God of Frenzy is suppose to activate." The reason people started to think about this is because of the introduction to nirvana G15 weapons. Sacrificial Strike is a very easy proc to get on a G15 weapon (46.5% based on your pwdatabase pages), but God of Frenzy (same proc but higher chance to activate) is a very difficult chance to get on the same weapons (2.5% chance). This holds true for many other lower and advanced skills for nirvana weapons (revenge and blood vengeance on claws, soul shatter and spirits blackhole on bows, etc).

People were wondering if spending the horrendous amount of time and money to get God of Frenzy was worth it or should they just stick to spending less to get Sacrificial Strike and only lose a little bit of activation chance. To really be able to tell if it's worth spending that much extra time farming / spending real money on raptures, we obviously would need to know what the "higher chance" means in the text description of the skills. This is why I have started a dialog with you. It would be very beneficial for people to know if you attack a target x times you should have GoF / revenge / soul shatter / square formation / etc activate 1 time.

I've spent hours in TT hitting the fake pillar to try and get a good sample size of target hits vs activations for God of Frenzy on my Overlord Battleaxe. From what I can tell, the Overlord Battleaxe activates 1 in 5 hits (20%). Two things that I cannot verify about that number: First, I have no idea if that's the true probability, but how much higher is this probability from the Sacrificial Strike (lower proc). Secondly, is this 20% chance a steady variable with all weapons that have God of Frenzy OR could some be 15% and others 25% (based on each individual weapon).

So a good basis to test out some of these question would be to answer the following few questions when you have some spare time.

If I hit a target with ☆☆Dark Death Thorn (Sacrificial Strike unique add-on) I will deal double damage one in x times. solve for x
If I hit a target with ☆☆Dark Death Thorn (God of Frenzy unique add-on) I will deal double damage one in x times. solve for x

if I hit a target with ☆☆Unicorn's Tragedy (Sacrificial Strike unique add-on) I will deal double damage one in x times. solve for x
if I hit a target with ☆☆Unicorn's Tragedy (God of Frenzy unique add-on) I will deal double damage one in x times. solve for x

If I hit a target with ☆☆Ghost Vanquisher-Soulblast (Revenge unique add-on) I will heal 5% hp and increase my weapon atk one in x times. solve for x
If I hit a target with ☆☆Ghost Vanquisher-Soulblast (Blood Vengeance unique add-on) I will heal 5% hp and increase my weapon atk one in x times. solve for x

If x can be solved for all of those questions we can then answer some of the initial questions:
1. Does each weapon have it's own activation chance or is it universal to all weapons with said weapon proc?
2. Does each lower skill and advanced skill activation percentage increase the same? (Revenge vs Blood Revenge proc increases x% and Sac Strike vs God of Frenzy increases x%)
3. How much higher is the advanced skill vs the lower skill?

Depending on these we can then figure out all of the weapon procs for all weapons and possibly put up a very well informed page on your website to help people understand that they might be spending 100s of millions of coin for only a 5% increase in weapon activation percentage.

I hope to hear from you soon and again thank you very much for all of your time,
Traz

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

On my weapon (wheel of warfog vanisher) i think sacrificial strike procs something like every 1 out of 8-15 hits. I gathered this by auto attacking npc's and counting procs over hits. Did the same for hitting on mobs and on players and then got a average of all of them.
Hopes this helps you

Traz - Dreamweaver

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

On my weapon (wheel of warfog vanisher) i think sacrificial strike procs something like every 1 out of 8-15 hits. I gathered this by auto attacking npc's and counting procs over hits. Did the same for hitting on mobs and on players and then got a average of all of them.
Hopes this helps you

1 in 8 - 15 is 12.5% to 6.67% that's almost a double to the range. There is no part of that in which you gave a solid % chance. If you said a range like 10-12% maybe we were on to something, but that kind of range is pretty much totally disregarded.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Well...

The fail RNG makes it harder even to calculate intended proc rate. I'm sure my BM crits more than 21% of the time, despite having a 21% crit rate. Or maybe less. I'm sure average works out to being one or the other.

Anyway...

I'm glad that it's becoming more obvious that Proc rate is more weapon based vs based on the proc itself. Would be... REALLY nice if we could get some of this info from the devs, but they're communists, so they won't tell us anything. >_>

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1 in 8 - 15 is 12.5% to 6.67% that's almost a double to the range. There is no part of that in which you gave a solid % chance. If you said a range like 10-12% maybe we were on to something, but that kind of range is pretty much totally disregarded.

Well thats what the proc rates are for me some times i could get 2 - 3 procs in a row and then go for 20+ hits without procing. Sorry if i couldnt work out a solid % but heck you might have noticed maths + PW = a really ****ed up equation and stupid answer.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well...

The fail RNG makes it harder even to calculate intended proc rate. I'm sure my BM crits more than 21% of the time, despite having a 21% crit rate. Or maybe less. I'm sure average works out to being one or the other.

Anyway...

I'm glad that it's becoming more obvious that Proc rate is more weapon based vs based on the proc itself. Would be... REALLY nice if we could get some of this info from the devs, but they're communists, so they won't tell us anything. >_>

I really wouldn't say it's more weapon based. It's just a process that is handled by the server instead of the client so hopefully pw database guy can come up with something.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

The fail RNG makes it harder even to calculate intended proc rate. I'm sure my BM crits more than 21% of the time, despite having a 21% crit rate. Or maybe less. I'm sure average works out to being one or the other.

Wow...

Traz - Dreamweaver

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wow...

shhhh this is one of those don't make eye contact moments.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wow...

That's 43 words to say nothing at all.

Missyo - Heavens Tear

a couple words to turn ur math to pieces. if ur crit rate is 21% it does not mean you will crit once every 5 hits, it means that everytime you hit you got 21 % chance to crit - which is some other **** - and besides that there is no possible way to calculate the "proc rates" - as you name it - numbers mean nothing - even 50% is a low chance (thinkin about refine - how many times did you fail to +1 in a row ? )

Traz - Dreamweaver

Missyo - Heavens Tear wrote: »

a couple words to turn ur math to pieces. if ur crit rate is 21% it does not mean you will crit once every 5 hits, it means that everytime you hit you got 21 % chance to crit - which is some other **** - and besides that there is no possible way to calculate the "proc rates" - as you name it - numbers mean nothing - even 50% is a low chance (thinkin about refine - how many times did you fail to +1 in a row ? )

no way to ..... "calculate" the proc rates.... games don't run on fairy dust... somewhere it says yes do double damage or no don't do double damage.... (among other different add-ons).

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Missyo - Heavens Tear wrote: »

a couple words to turn ur math to pieces. if ur crit rate is 21% it does not mean you will crit once every 5 hits, it means that everytime you hit you got 21 % chance to crit - which is some other **** - and besides that there is no possible way to calculate the "proc rates" - as you name it - numbers mean nothing - even 50% is a low chance (thinkin about refine - how many times did you fail to +1 in a row ? )

The crit rates and other probabilities in a game run on a computer-based Random Number Generator.

And random numbers work nicely with math. Well, statistics to be more specific.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

shhhh this is one of those don't make eye contact moments.

This is why I still go to the forums.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well...

The fail RNG makes it harder even to calculate intended proc rate. I'm sure my BM crits more than 21% of the time, despite having a 21% crit rate. Or maybe less. I'm sure average works out to being one or the other.

.....

this.....is.....soooo.....epic....

truekossy

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is why I still go to the forums.

Well I'm happy I decided to show back up at such an amusing moment.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wow...

Huh... My cleric with a 1% crit rate got 4 crits in a row. Fail RNG, or am I hacking?

Decus - Dreamweaver

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is why I still go to the forums.

Me too.

truekossy wrote: »

Well I'm happy I decided to show back up at such an amusing moment.

Kossy b:cute

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Huh... My cleric with a 1% crit rate got 4 crits in a row. Fail RNG, or am I hacking?

No, it's called probability... ;-;
Your scenario, while low in odds of occurence, is still possible.

truekossy

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Huh... My cleric with a 1% crit rate got 4 crits in a row. Fail RNG, or am I hacking?

.... Are we supposed to laugh at this or facepalm?

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Kossy b:cute

Nice to see you around again you cleric/archer hybrid! b:cute

Okeano - Harshlands

Wow Sarrafeline...

Anyways.. As I have posted before, GoF on R9 dual axes proc'ed 21% in over 1000 hits, I'd call that 20% and say it's at least the same for axes type. Now all we need is the proc rate of daggers to make a conclusion. My guess is they are the same for all weapons.

If someone can test he rate of purge vs adv purge, that'd be great. I would like to see if it'll be worth it to react R8 pole to replace tt99.

Zenorx - Harshlands

Hi guys,

Addons such as GoF are actually skills to the game (Similar to a persons passive skills but they are applied to a weapon instead).
This means that these addons are hardcoded into the server, I believe in the GS

Because the GS is compiled, to find out the proc rates you would have to hex edit and try and find the values or partially reverse engineer it to create part of a server emulator.

Both these options are hours and hours of work and neither guarantee success at finding the proc rates.

So I highly doubt pwdatabase man will be able to work it out, like he says, they are not in elements.data, and if he does manage to work it out I will be very impressed.

So you're basically stuck with manual in game testing to work out the rates

Traz - Dreamweaver

Zenorx - Harshlands wrote: »

Hi guys,

Addons such as GoF are actually skills to the game (Similar to a persons passive skills but they are applied to a weapon instead).
This means that these addons are hardcoded into the server, I believe in the GS

Because the GS is compiled, to find out the proc rates you would have to hex edit and try and find the values or partially reverse engineer it to create part of a server emulator.

Both these options are hours and hours of work and neither guarantee success at finding the proc rates.

So I highly doubt pwdatabase man will be able to work it out, like he says, they are not in elements.data, and if he does manage to work it out I will be very impressed.

So you're basically stuck with manual in game testing to work out the rates

Manual in game testing is ..... hours and ... hours of work ... and doesn't guarantee success at finding the proc rates, fancy that

Okeano - Harshlands

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Manual in game testing is ..... hours and ... hours of work ... and doesn't guarantee success at finding the proc rates, fancy that

I'd say 1000-2000 hits are good enough for an estimation.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Zenorx - Harshlands wrote: »

Hi guys,

Addons such as GoF are actually skills to the game (Similar to a persons passive skills but they are applied to a weapon instead).
This means that these addons are hardcoded into the server, I believe in the GS

Because the GS is compiled, to find out the proc rates you would have to hex edit and try and find the values or partially reverse engineer it to create part of a server emulator.

Both these options are hours and hours of work and neither guarantee success at finding the proc rates.

So I highly doubt pwdatabase man will be able to work it out, like he says, they are not in elements.data, and if he does manage to work it out I will be very impressed.

So you're basically stuck with manual in game testing to work out the rates

All these claims are based on?

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

I'd say 1000-2000 hits are good enough for an estimation.

This does not give us a conclusion about GoF on other category of weapons. For all axes / hammers it seems 20%. We still must test Sac Strike and see if that's 15% (my assumption).

Okeano - Harshlands

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This does not give us a conclusion about GoF on other category of weapons. For all axes / hammers it seems 20%. We still must test Sac Strike and see if that's 15% (my assumption).

You probably missed this post

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Anyways.. As I have posted before, GoF on R9 dual axes proc'ed 21% in over 1000 hits, I'd call that 20% and say it's at least the same for axes type. Now all we need is the proc rate of daggers to make a conclusion. My guess is they are the same for all weapons.

In the post you just replied to I was just saying about an hour worth of testing can give a fairly acceptable proc rate. My 1000+ hit was conducted in about half hour (under water by BH guy) while I was waiting on the tiger event.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Manual in game testing is ..... hours and ... hours of work ... and doesn't guarantee success at finding the proc rates, fancy that

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

All these claims are based on?



This does not give us a conclusion about GoF on other category of weapons. For all axes / hammers it seems 20%. We still must test Sac Strike and see if that's 15% (my assumption).

the idea that procs are actually skills and thus not coded onto the weapon and thus not in elements is just as plausible as your idea that they are.

your just chasing the dragon man.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

This thread is amazing every time it comes up. b:chuckle

Zenorx - Harshlands

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

All these claims are based on?

Because I know these kinds of things and I can do this

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8271/zerkd.png

and it is in the client side skill config list I believe.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Zenorx - Harshlands wrote: »

Because I know these kinds of things and I can do this

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8271/zerkd.png

and it is in the client side skill config list I believe.

private server hisssssssss

Decus - Dreamweaver

This thread is gold. I love reading it now almost as much as that fail PK thread.

truekossy wrote: »

Nice to see you around again you cleric/archer hybrid! b:cute

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