R8 Recast: Gof + -.05 price and probability.

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver

In order to obtain ☆☆Daggers of the Ocean:Eon. You must collect a few things.

1.) R8 dagger
2.) 999 Memorial Coin
3.) 299 Adamantine Whetstone
4.) 15 Oricalcum Ore

With these items, you will be able to recast your R8 daggers.

How to obtain these items? From these bags you get from faction base trials: Arcanum Treasure

As you can see it's similar to a pack (oh yay), but the odds are slightly better (slightly). It has:
12 Memorial Coins - 81.45%
12 Round Shield Medals - 10%
7 Adamantine Whetstone - 6%
3 Oricalcum Ore - .75%
3 Platinum Ore - 1.8%

Assuming you were opening boxes to obtain all of these items, the average number of completed trials required to acquire the number of required mats is:
102.2 trials to collect enough Memorial Coins.
711.9 trials to collect enough Adamantine Whetstone.
666.7 trials to collect enough Oricalcum Ore.
For a grand total of 1480.8 trials to recast R8. (about 148 complete runs, 3 per week)
BUT WAIT!
Every trial you complete you obtain a Warrior Seal

15 gets you 1 Adamantine Whetstone.
90 gets you 1 Oricalcum Ore. <-- Important thing to get
so after 270 trials you can get 3 Oricalcum Ore.

So it will now take 1,391 trials. But wait! Everything except for Oricalcum ore can be bought. Give it a week or two stable market values will be determined. it should only take about 577 trials to get enough ores. Buy the rest you dont get from trials once you hit 15 ores. And boom youre good.

Now that we have Recast R8. We need to reforge it to get adds we like, like say... GoF and -.05 int for example.

Odds of this?
Getting -.05 interval has a .13% chance, but can appear in 2 possible add slots.

GoF is 11.1%.

So getting the 2 on 1 cast will take approximately 3,465 recasts.

Each recast requires 2 million coins, 90 Memorial Coins, 12 Adamantine Whetstone, & 3 Damascene Ore.

Damascene can be acquired with 40 Warrior Seals...and 3 200mil HP bosses drop them.

The 2 million coin fee alone along with 3k recasts make this... pointlessly expensive -.-'


Guess recast R8 dags arent a possibility.

Traz - Dreamweaver

So far all I see is a lot of incorrect numbers and some incorrect information. Either way it will take a lot longer then pretty much everyone thought.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So far all I see is a lot of incorrect numbers and some incorrect information. Either way it will take a lot longer then pretty much everyone thought.

... I suppose I really was the only one who never expected the recast to be a worthwhile option.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

... I suppose I really was the only one who never expected the recast to be a worthwhile option.

I certainly didn't. Why i'm saving up for r9 and wife's G15 lunar dags still.

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So far all I see is a lot of incorrect numbers and some incorrect information.

Where?

Traz - Dreamweaver

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Where?

So far for a weapon it's 446 trials to get it (based on averages & 9th trial gives 2 quest packs btw). The thing not really 100% factor into that number is the amount you might get from the bosses (bosses drop platinum ore packs and oricalcum ore packs). That's up to each faction on how to deal with those.

The other thing I see is the number of random add-ons. You state you get 2 + 1 unique add, but it's 3 + 1 unique add. Either way you are correct, the 2m fee per will make this nearly impossible without getting super lucky right away.

The last thing I see as a fallacy is the fact that the packs for the rare mats are tradeable along with the common mats. You, theoretically, are able to straight buy r8 reforged items.

Empu - Sanctuary

When nirvana first came out, there were threads just like this. Now, G15 nirvana weapons aren't all that rare anymore. Give it a few months for prices to settle and for ppl to figure out the best way to run the trials, then look again. So many are after the most perfect recast possibilities, and want them right away. Can't expect it to be cheap, especially if you want it straight away. Right now, it's just predicting the future in a teacup while trying to make it look scientific with droprate %.

On a side note, I don't think it's bad the mats are tradeable. At least you don't have to be in 1 of the major factions, or even be in a faction, to get r8 recast. Besides, all mats for anything have always been tradeable.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

When nirvana first came out, there were threads just like this. Now, G15 nirvana weapons aren't all that rare anymore. Give it a few months for prices to settle and for ppl to figure out the best way to run the trials, then look again. So many are after the most perfect recast possibilities, and want them right away. Can't expect it to be cheap, especially if you want it straight away. Right now, it's just predicting the future in a teacup while trying to make it look scientific with droprate %.

On a side note, I don't think it's bad the mats are tradeable. At least you don't have to be in 1 of the major factions, or even be in a faction, to get r8 recast. Besides, all mats for anything have always been tradeable.

Nirvana got easier because squads got much smaller and people got multiple alts to 100 to get themselves many 99 key quests. None of that will happen with r8 reforged. It will be many many many months before you will see even a small percentage of mats out there to buy up. The biggest problem with r8 reforged is the fees for re-rolling. Odds are crazy and 2m a pop is just not something people will be able to afford. Nirvana it just meant farm more get the items themselves and use them. Now you have to get the items along with just having a **** ton of coin on you too. The only thing I'm going for right now is a chestplate for the -0.05 so I can be 5.0 base.

PS odds for GoF and -int are 1 in 2,570 (with 3 add ons instead of 2 taking into accuont). That's 5,140,000,000 coins in just fees + items. Have fun kids.

Empu - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nirvana got easier because squads got much smaller and people got multiple alts to 100 to get themselves many 99 key quests. None of that will happen with r8 reforged. It will be many many many months before you will see even a small percentage of mats out there to buy up. The biggest problem with r8 reforged is the fees for re-rolling. Odds are crazy and 2m a pop is just not something people will be able to afford. Nirvana it just meant farm more get the items themselves and use them. Now you have to get the items along with just having a **** ton of coin on you too. The only thing I'm going for right now is a chestplate for the -0.05 so I can be 5.0 base.

PS odds for GoF and -int are 1 in 2,570 (with 3 add ons instead of 2 taking into accuont). That's 5,140,000,000 coins in just fees + items. Have fun kids.

All I'm saying is : for once, just wait and see before whining (not directly to you, but in general).

Ppl been so hyperspeculating over this r8 recast thing, they came pretty much to the conclusion everyone would be 5 aps base for less cost then 2nd cast nirvana. No wonder ppl are dissapointed to find out it won't be that way. Dissapointement comes from to high expectations, not from the recast thing for r8 being bad/expensive (maybe they were mislead by the fact r8 got so freaking cheap, so they figured the recast would be same). I'm not going to judge on that when it's in game only a few days, and we only have theoretical hypothetical, mostly QQ, **** information on it.

Also, I don't agree with you on the vana thing. Once the first got their stuff, they start selling. That is how TT60 was expensive first, then TT70, etc. Ppl pay a lot to be among the first to have something. Also keep in mind, that the major farmers in the most active factions are often TW minded, and running around in R9 (and for sure won't bother with r8 recast). Since the R9 recast doesn't take the base mats, I doubt it will take more then a few months for prices to drop drastically. Especially since all other instances aren't worth farming anymore.

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver

Doesn't going from r8 to recast have a 20m coin fee?

Traz - Dreamweaver

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

All I'm saying is : for once, just wait and see before whining (not directly to you, but in general).

Ppl been so hyperspeculating over this r8 recast thing, they came pretty much to the conclusion everyone would be 5 aps base for less cost then 2nd cast nirvana. No wonder ppl are dissapointed to find out it won't be that way. Dissapointement comes from to high expectations, not from the recast thing for r8 being bad/expensive (maybe they were mislead by the fact r8 got so freaking cheap, so they figured the recast would be same). I'm not going to judge on that when it's in game only a few days, and we only have theoretical hypothetical, mostly QQ, **** information on it.

Also, I don't agree with you on the vana thing. Once the first got their stuff, they start selling. That is how TT60 was expensive first, then TT70, etc. Ppl pay a lot to be among the first to have something. Also keep in mind, that the major farmers in the most active factions are often TW minded, and running around in R9 (and for sure won't bother with r8 recast). Since the R9 recast doesn't take the base mats, I doubt it will take more then a few months for prices to drop drastically. Especially since all other instances aren't worth farming anymore.

I don't have **** information on it. I have done all the trials, I have seen all the instances, and I have read all the info/numbers. Unless a faction shells out 9 or 15 of the rare mats to someone (or as you said pays a **** ton to be the first) you wont see armor for at least a month, if not 6 weeks. This is going to take a lot of dedication, a lot of man power, and a lot of coordination of a minimum of 30 TW geared players to pull off. This isn't going to have a lot of stuff on the market for probably 8 months. 90% of the items come from the quests not the bosses so you will have to physically be there to get a good chance at items.

This is a completely different animal then nirvana was (and is currently). Nirvana's current stat is now seeing 100s of shops with 400/500/600 cannies 100/200/300 raptures? This is not going to happen with r8 reforged mats, mark my words (maybe a merchant or two). It's going to take a very very long time for a majority of players to get their items (a lot longer then nirvana was) so you will not really see anything on the market for 8-10 months, and upwards of a year. I give it a 14 months minimum before you will see a moderate amount (not even a lot). There will be a few merchants that stock up and are able to have a shop with a half decent amount but do not expect these mats to be easy to find after a year (like cannies/raptures are).

Empu - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This is going to take a lot of dedication, a lot of man power, and a lot of coordination of a minimum of 30 TW geared players to pull off.

You make it sound like a bad thing b:chuckle And I just lolled at the part before. If after 3 days you're a "specialist", you just prooven my point.

Just keep in mind that, unlike before, recast r8 is not the new top gear especially tw wise. I already see shops popping up all around the base manager like mad. Yes, may take 30 TW geared ppl, of which 29 most likely won't give a damn about the mats since they are full r9 already... But we'll see.

It's just to common : when they make something cheap, it's to easy ; when the put something in that takes efford, it's to hard. Ppl seem to get frustrated whatever way it goes.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

You make it sound like a bad thing b:chuckle And I just lolled at the part before. If after 3 days you're a "specialist", you just prooven my point.

Just keep in mind that, unlike before, recast r8 is not the new top gear especially tw wise. I already see shops popping up all around the base manager like mad. Yes, may take 30 TW geared ppl, of which 29 most likely won't give a damn about the mats since they are full r9 already... But we'll see.

It's just to common : when they make something cheap, it's to easy ; when the put something in that takes efford, it's to hard. Ppl seem to get frustrated whatever way it goes.

I'm simply stating the facts based on information read and experienced. I don't need to go through things 198070192834 times to know exactly what needs done and how to do it. We have 60+ people on vent all going through the quests all discussing idea's and how to go about it next time. I wont even bother you with all my notes on all the quests steps as that would take entirely to long to do. I'm simply saying it's not going to be a snooze 2 people duoing the whole thing all the time like nirvana turned into. This will require a pretty good faction effort and coordination which just furthers the amount of time it's going to take for these mats to become "common" like nirvana now has become.

I think this is truly one of the first updates they have done where effort matches reward. I like this update a lot.

Empu - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think this is truly one of the first updates they have done where effort matches reward. I like this update a lot.

I think this is truly one of the first points we agree on.

Northern - Dreamweaver

I'm still betting it doesn't ever take off. Fact is I'm in one of those top five "tw" factions, and I can tell you that its hard for us to have enough online at anygiven time. I think its gonna get much easier when we aren't trying to figure it out, But at the same time it is almost daily that someone quits the game visibly or just quits being active..This patch was too little too late.

The TT,nirvana,lunar,rank gear is all gonna still have its nitch. I don't agree that no other intance is worth farming. At the current prices for effort/reward..I don't see the trials as bieng worth farming.

FiveAps - Dreamweaver

ok, so even for 1 recast people are counting weeks of faction work.

From what I've seen, daggers at least get to g15, right?
What's the diff between the nirv g15 and r8 recast? checking the links available, it looks like 100 base phys attk (refine numbers look the same for now). That is not worth it in my book. G15 is compared to cost to R9. So, weeks maybe months of work to farm those mats = you get a R8 dagg close to R9 one? I'm sorry, but to me that stuff doesn't add up.
Yeah, I understand Traz, he wants HA top with -int for 5 aps base. Great.
For someone who's 4 abs base, what's the point of going 5 aps base? PvP? yeah,a bit of edge. PvE? I don't think as sin it matters once you're 5 aps sparked. Sure, you can get -int on R8 armor and go for better ornaments, but really, at one point some things don't make any sense unless they're strictly e-peen related.
I like the expansion, I like the new options in it. What I don't like is the R8 recast cost positioning. Right now it seems to be in the R9 range, and doesn't come close to the benefits of actually having R9.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As you can see it's similar to a pack (oh yay), but the odds are slightly better (slightly). It has:
12 Memorial Coins - 81.45%
12 Round Shield Medals - 10%
7 Adamantine Whetstone - 6%
3 Oricalcum Ore - .75%
3 Platinum Ore - 1.8%

Assuming you were opening boxes to obtain all of these items, the average number of completed trials required to acquire the number of required mats is:
102.2 trials to collect enough Memorial Coins.
711.9 trials to collect enough Adamantine Whetstone.
666.7 trials to collect enough Oricalcum Ore.
For a grand total of 1480.8 trials to recast R8. (about 148 complete runs, 3 per week)

You aren't supposed to add up those trials since you are collecting all 5 mats simultaneously and not sequentially. If for example you don't get a Whetstone in this trip you are guaranteed of getting one of the other 4 mats.

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Doesn't going from r8 to recast have a 20m coin fee?

20 mil to recast it. Then 2 mil each time you want to reroll the stats.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

You aren't supposed to add up those trials since you are collecting all 5 mats simultaneously and not sequentially. If for example you don't get a Whetstone in this trip you are guaranteed of getting one of the other 4 mats.

Yes I am aware all of my math was wrong, I was baked when I wrote this and everything is pretty much skewed a bit. I wrote down average number of runs to complete each set of items by taking amount received * % chance to get it then divided that by how many you need total. but doing it like that gives you how long to get those mats while also getting others when you don't get those mats, so they don't stack together like that.

Edit: DDivided into, divided by, idk the wording but

999/(12*.8145)=# of trials

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Clearly, R8 Recast isn't a realistic option to compete with G15 Nirvana or non-recast R9.

However, looking at the prices people on my server are buying, if you farm the Oricalcums, you'd be looking at about 100m for recast R8. That, in turn, is cheaper than G13 Nirvana. I would say that this puts recast Rank 8 in the lower-endgame bracket. That is:

Endgame:
G15 Nirvana
Rank 9

Lower Endgame
G13 Nirvana
Rank8
Recast Rank8

This doesn't really mean that recast R8 is going to be popular. For one, the cost puts it only barely lower than G13 Nirvana, which is currently the most popular endgame weapon for obvious reasons. Also, due to the vast quantity of materials required, buying the materials for recast R8 would take longer than G13 Nirvana. And then there's the whole farming aspect.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Clearly, R8 Recast isn't a realistic option to compete with G15 Nirvana or non-recast R9.

However, looking at the prices people on my server are buying, if you farm the Oricalcums, you'd be looking at about 100m for recast R8. That, in turn, is cheaper than G13 Nirvana. I would say that this puts recast Rank 8 in the lower-endgame bracket. That is:

Endgame:
G15 Nirvana
Rank 9

Lower Endgame
G13 Nirvana
Rank8
Recast Rank8

This doesn't really mean that recast R8 is going to be popular. For one, the cost puts it only barely lower than G13 Nirvana, which is currently the most popular endgame weapon for obvious reasons. Also, due to the vast quantity of materials required, buying the materials for recast R8 would take longer than G13 Nirvana. And then there's the whole farming aspect.

For those lucky few (like GoF -int on G15) with 2 mods for extra damage on top of GoF and -int and a higher base then G15, I can see r8 being highest single target weapon for damage at 5.0. But that 2m re-roll fee is going to be the elephant in the room. b:surrender

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

For those lucky few (like GoF -int on G15) with 2 mods for extra damage on top of GoF and -int and a higher base then G15, I can see r8 being highest single target weapon for damage at 5.0. But that 2m re-roll fee is going to be the elephant in the room. b:surrender

Well obviously. Recast R8 does have much higher base damage than G15 Nirvana.

G15 Nirvana has 685-1028 whereas recast R8 has like 754-1145. After all, the perfectly G15 Nirvana only has +130 max damage, putting them at 685 - 1158 vs 754 - 1145. Get something like GoF, -0.05 interval and Atk Lvl +5 on the recast R8 and it'll make G15 Nirvana, and by extension, R9, puny.

But getting that is probably something we're not going to see. At least very soon. Then again, the same is true of that G15 Nirvana and from what I know, there are some that are extremely close to it.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well obviously. Recast R8 does have much higher base damage than G15 Nirvana.

G15 Nirvana has 685-1028 whereas recast R8 has like 754-1145. After all, the perfectly G15 Nirvana only has +130 max damage, putting them at 685 - 1158 vs 754 - 1145. Get something like GoF, -0.05 interval and Atk Lvl +5 on the recast R8 and it'll make G15 Nirvana, and by extension, R9, puny.

But getting that is probably something we're not going to see. At least very soon. Then again, the same is true of that G15 Nirvana and from what I know, there are some that are extremely close to it.

Only time shall tell. I'm just going for r8 boots/plate on my barb with getting 1 -int so I can also bump heavy wrists up to final forge nirvy. Full HA 5.0 sage barb. b:dirty

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver

I just like looking different. Everyone uses G13 so I use R8. Everyone has TT nirv so I use lunar, and by everyone I mean most. Hence why I'm also going for recast rank 8. It's a fun end game goal to have, and not many will put forth the effort to get it. And if I ever did get gof and -int... id showboat it like no tomorrow.

So_Wet - Sanctuary

LOL everyones saying how its taking agers to get mats, well ive not done trials yet with faction but ive bought the mats i have over 400 coins 180 whetstones and all 15 ores and ive not even done trials yet all them ive bought for under 50m so technically more than half sort of and what for 50m definatly worth it imo

Traz - Dreamweaver

So_Wet - Sanctuary wrote: »

LOL everyones saying how its taking agers to get mats, well ive not done trials yet with faction but ive bought the mats i have over 400 coins 180 whetstones and all 15 ores and ive not even done trials yet all them ive bought for under 50m so technically more than half sort of and what for 50m definatly worth it imo

congrats you still having figured out those mats aren't the costly thing with r8 reforged. b:cute

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

congrats you still having figured out those mats aren't the costly thing with r8 reforged. b:cute

Again... not everyone is aiming for the 4-5 aps GoF. To some, it's going to be an upgrade from Rank 8 that is better than G13 Nirvana and costs less.

So_Wet - Sanctuary

XD im not aiming for gof or interval sumtimes when u 5.0 u get bored of 5.0 if i get any of the stats id be happy honestly i want the look of the daggers i actually bought 2 sets of faction fashion becoz of the look meh forget the adds yo GOF attk lvl crit so what all same when u already have decent daggers

Olbaze - Sanctuary

So_Wet - Sanctuary wrote: »

XD im not aiming for gof or interval sumtimes when u 5.0 u get bored of 5.0 if i get any of the stats id be happy honestly i want the look of the daggers i actually bought 2 sets of faction fashion becoz of the look meh forget the adds yo GOF attk lvl crit so what all same when u already have decent daggers

Though... how did you get the Oricalcums?

Traz - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Though... how did you get the Oricalcums?

He bought the packs that contain them (they are tradeable). As stated you can buy your way to the item, but the fee to re-roll can't be avoided.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

He bought the packs that contain them (they are tradeable). As stated you can buy your way to the item, but the fee to re-roll can't be avoided.

Ah, I see.

Maybe I should consider it. If I'm going to stick with R8 anyway, I'd say the odds of recast R8 being vastly superior are pretty good, since 3 out of 4 fixed mods pretty much guarantee that the recast is superior r8 regardless of the other mods.

fairymaster1

I doubt it will take long to see reforge gear, on RT people were catshopping the mats the first day. I saw one with 2 ore packs for 7m each and i am sure those will drop in price. the other mats are dropping in price already and it has not even been a week. I beleive the market will stabalize within a matter of weeks not months but I could be wrong.