Server's richest people

Cytte - Harshlands

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

You used rules # 2 and 3 - you let her know you are interested and willing to negotiate better prices, but then you pressured her with a time limit/ultimatum: Cut the bull****, and take my 33 mil offer, or we're done. Brutal b:shocked

Dayummmm Long that be some Pro0shizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Eoria - Harshlands

Mike is a jew. b:avoid

linkism

Persistence and patience... all there is to it.

Eo -.-

Burnout - Harshlands

linkism wrote: »

Persistence and patience... all there is to it.

Eo -.-

That's actually true...

I only average like 5 mil a day?

R9 sharded refined JOSD costs what? at least 3-4 bil?

4 billion / 5 million = 2.19 years of merchanting lolz.

Eoria - Harshlands

I knew someone had to do it the moment you said it in vent. b:chuckle

tfi2f

I actually first crossed the 100m coin mark on the night I quit lol, I felt proud, but was still pissed off by the patch :< Merchanting is so much fun

I also merchanted in Forsaken World, but I uninstalled that too \o/ I firmly decided to wait for ***, and end the bs b:shutup

..But my first 100m in like...a month and a half of merchanting, felt good brah :>

EDIT: LOL wow, the thing that's censored above there is "G.W.2" xD

Wintermelon - Harshlands

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

I know you dont - its not like I haven't seen your catshop all day long. and selling @ 1% profit margin is just dumb.

Btw for those who read this thread here's an investment tip:

Ancient emblems

1. noobs don't know wtf it is

2. ppl who DO know usually don't really want it

3. The ppl who DO want it are generally rich and willing to pay a premium to buy a lot at once

4. It's a relatively new item that most don't know the value of

Buy at 1.5-3 million and sell for at least 3.5 mil.

Current profit from emblems I've made is 14 mil. It's not much but merchanting is about patience


Edit: the post about sustainability was from my convos w/ Tigerbabe, who I assumed was RedBetty, but I guess not, LOL. Tigerbabe argued that keeping the price high w/ everyone selling @ the same price would give sustained profits, rather than undercutting and eventually making it harder to sell more packs, etc.

Her argument is true for maybe something like an oligopoly, but not for a competitive marketplace where anyone can enter and exit at will. In this situation the principles of Nash equilibrium come into play (ie prisoner's dilemma) and undercutting is the most profitable winning strategy.

For some reason somebody thinks I'm Burnout. Maybe its because of how you show off yourselves in the forum that makes some people get pissed off with me for no reason. This post shall reveal that I'm NOT this lame person.

And while you may have the best skill in merchanting, and is the biggest catshop in Harshland (although I dont see any big ones beside Props, TigerBabe and Zuichan), it isnt very nice to use the wrong concept to impress others.

Only in an oligopoly is when your "Nash equilibrium... winning strategy", i.e. Bertrand Model comes into play. In a competitive market, you price your item AT the given market price, every player is the price taker. This is economics.

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Price_Theory/PThy_Chapter_11/PThy_Chapter_11.html

As to why your undercutting strategy still works in competitive market? The concept is simple, and has nothing to do with that Nash eqm u are referring to.

Thats because when u buy more packs/orbs/etc, you increase the supply in the market. The demand hasnt increased yet, and as a result, the price drop. The current price no longer is the market price, and u undercut to find the new equlibrium price.

So ya.. and I'm not Economics major either, but at least some of us know that you are smoking the innocent.

tfi2f

Merchant wars b:shocked

Which HL merchant is the top dog??? Shet just got REAL lol

Burnout - Harshlands

Wintermelon - Harshlands wrote: »

For some reason somebody thinks I'm Burnout. Maybe its because of how you show off yourselves in the forum that makes some people get pissed off with me for no reason. This post shall reveal that I'm NOT this lame person.

And while you may have the best skill in merchanting, and is the biggest catshop in Harshland (although I dont see any big ones beside Props, TigerBabe and Zuichan), it isnt very nice to use the wrong concept to impress others.

Only in an oligopoly is when your "Nash equilibrium... winning strategy", i.e. Bertrand Model comes into play. In a competitive market, you price your item AT the given market price, every player is the price taker. This is economics.

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Price_Theory/PThy_Chapter_11/PThy_Chapter_11.html

As to why your undercutting strategy still works in competitive market? The concept is simple, and has nothing to do with that Nash eqm u are referring to.

Thats because when u buy more packs/orbs/etc, you increase the supply in the market. The demand hasnt increased yet, and as a result, the price drop. The current price no longer is the market price, and u undercut to find the new equlibrium price.

So ya.. and I'm not Economics major either, but at least some of us know that you are smoking the innocent.

That's actually not true, because in a perfectly competitive market, the profit of all competitors is very close to 0. This is not true for PWI-catshopping packs, because it doesn't meet one rule: perfect information. Not all catshops are aware of all prices of all packs at any given time, and thus the best way to take advantage of this situation is to undercut and thus receive the majority of all profits until this information is taken into account.

When you talk about supply and demand, it's very easy to see with Tokens. Catshops are buying at 10.2, and selling at 10.4. The profit is miniscule. This is because tokens are an item that does not fluctuate in price, and the price of tokens is general knowledge to the public. Undercutting is not useful here, because any more undercutting results in 0 profit, and then negative profit. Tokens are very close to a perfectly competitive item. A token is a token is a token. Packs, however, sell differently depending on whether it's a Tiger pack or a Cosmic pack. If there was a sudden influx of supply of tokens into the market, the price would drop, but profit would very quickly return to near 0 levels. You simply don't get rich dealing in tokens.

Packs, unlike tokens, fluctuate wildly according to gold prices. There is also a large entry cost into it : You must be able to buy gold, and the only way to get it instantly is to buy at high prices, or put real money into the game. This means there's an opportunity for profit from packs, because some people are unwilling to wait or unwilling to buy 50 packs all at once. The profit from packs derives from this fact.

When was the last time you made a significant amount of profit simply by buying a mount and selling it? Or buying something that doesn't give a bulk discount for buying a lot at once? An ancient boa, at 40 gold, is very rare, but desirable, but why don't people pay more than 40 gold for it? Likewise, why is it impossible to sell reset notes at a profit unless you bought it at discount? Does anyone pay more thasn the gold price for a reset? Then why would people pay more than gold price for packs?

Don't get me wrong. Supply and demand plays into *everything* in economics. It's a basic tenet of it's philosophy. The fact that you can state that when supply goes up, price goes down does not make you look smart. This is akin to telling a biologist that the circulatory system is easy - the heart pumps blood, and it goes out to the arteries to the body and into the veins and back to the heart. That gets at the basics of the circulatory system, but what does it really tell you? A biologist would say that the heart doesn't actually "pump", but rather uses differences in pressure to move blood from a high pressure area into a low pressure area. This is why people don't understand the significance of a high systole/diastole, since people think the heart just "pumps" blood. That only goes into the basics. If the diastole were ever lower than the systole, you would be dead.

Likewise, just stating price goes down because supply goes up is simply stating elementary economic theory that everyone should know. It's a basic guide, but why does the price go down? Why are there instances where this is not true?

Burnout - Harshlands

BTW Wintermelon, I consider economics as a science, and under that, its theories are taught according to very regulated methods. Go read a basic economics book, or even the "link" you provided, and try to apply its principles to real life. You can't. The book teaches you economics under an ideal, perfect world.

---

Quote from your "link" : If we assume that barbershops are spaced evenly along the street and that they all started out charging the same price

---

Where in the real world do you find a street of 5 barbershops, all equally spaced out? LOL. They set up these examples so that students can learn economic principles under controlled circumstances, but try to use the things you learned in school in the real world, against a real world economist, and you will be laughed at.

It's very true that books and schools don't actually teach you how to do your job. It's only there to weed out the stupid.

Wintermelon - Harshlands

lol Burnout...

I based my arguments on your quote:

"Her argument is true for maybe something like an oligopoly, but not for a competitive marketplace where anyone can enter and exit at will. In this situation the principles of Nash equilibrium come into play (ie prisoner's dilemma) and undercutting is the most profitable winning strategy"

Here's what I interpret from that quote:
- The pack market is not an oligopoly
- The pack market is closer to a perfect competition (since you said "competitive marketplace" which does not refers to oligopoly; AND that one can enter and exit at will which apparently contradict your own arguments later, where you said the pack market has high entry cost)
- As such, the undercutting strategy or the "Bertrand Model" works, and it works because the pack market is NOT an oligopoly but closer to a perfect competition

And I argued against your statement because it is in fact the other way round, the undercutting strategy works in an oligopoly and not because its a competitive market.

And because you assume the pack market is a "competitive market" and not an "oligopoly", the proper strategy is to price at the market price. This assumption, I know very well is wrong, because the pack market is actually still an oligopoly.

And based on your claims that you are the number 1 merchant in Harshland, I assume you are a long term player. And as such, even for an oligopoly, the undercutting strategy is not the best strategy. The better strategy is like what TigerBabe has suggested, to cooperate with other catshops and set the same price. This is because if other catshops also undercut in order to get a claim of some profit, the entire market will get 0 ECONOMIC PROFIT (not 0 accounting profit), while if you cooperate, everyone get some Economic Profit.

"That's actually not true, because in a perfectly competitive market, the profit of all competitors is very close to 0. "

Wrong, the profit is not close to 0, the profit is close to the profit of the next best alternative based on that person's ability. If someone can make more money in another market, then they would leave this market for it, decreasing the supply, hence sustaining the price at the market price.

You are not at that level yet to talk about oligopoly, thats why I'm going back to the basics, where you price your stuff based on demand and supply

"I consider economics as a science, and under that, its theories are taught according to very regulated methods. Go read a basic economics book, or even the "link" you provided, and try to apply its principles to real life. You can't. The book teaches you economics under an ideal, perfect world"

Who attempted to apply whats in the book to real life? And well, we are closer to "Perfect World" then real life. Only an addict like you treats a game as real life.

Burnout - Harshlands

Wintermelon - Harshlands wrote: »

lol Burnout...

I based my arguments on your quote:



Here's what I interpret from that quote:
- The pack market is not an oligopoly
- The pack market is closer to a perfect competition (since you said "competitive marketplace" which does not refers to oligopoly; AND that one can enter and exit at will which apparently contradict your own arguments later, where you said the pack market has high entry cost)
- As such, the undercutting strategy or the "Bertrand Model" works, and it works because the pack market is NOT an oligopoly but closer to a perfect competition

And I argued against your statement because it is in fact the other way round, the undercutting strategy works in an oligopoly and not because its a competitive market.

And because you assume the pack market is a "competitive market" and not an "oligopoly", the proper strategy is to price at the market price. This assumption, I know very well is wrong, because the pack market is actually still an oligopoly.

And based on your claims that you are the number 1 merchant in Harshland, I assume you are a long term player. And as such, even for an oligopoly, the undercutting strategy is not the best strategy. The better strategy is like what TigerBabe has suggested, to cooperate with other catshops and set the same price. This is because if other catshops also undercut in order to get a claim of some profit, the entire market will get 0 ECONOMIC PROFIT (not 0 accounting profit), while if you cooperate, everyone get some Economic Profit.



Wrong, the profit is not close to 0, the profit is close to the profit of the next best alternative based on that person's ability. If someone can make more money in another market, then they would leave this market for it, decreasing the supply, hence sustaining the price at the market price.

You are not at that level yet to talk about oligopoly, thats why I'm going back to the basics, where you price your stuff based on demand and supply



Who attempted to apply whats in the book to real life? And well, we are closer to "Perfect World" then real life. Only an addict like you treats a game as real life.

Tl, dr. Gonna go watch some football.

Edit: I will just say this, from skimming over your post. The reason I said Tigerbabe is wrong, is because collusion is only possible under certain circumstances. When you just said that packs market was a competitive marketplace, you just proved that collusion is not possible. The fact that you later retract this and say Tigerbabe is right, and that I should cooperate because i'm in it for the "long-term", says a lot about your understanding of economics. It's inconsistent, and you just say what sounds good at the time, even if it contradicts what you stated earlier: Packs are a competitive market (your words).

YOU CANNOT COLLUDE IN A COMPETITVE MARKET.

Also, in a perfectly competitive market, there are no barriers to entry or exit, so if one merchant leaves and the supply goes down (thus more profits), another simply takes his place (to take those profits), and the market becomes perfectly competitve again. Do you even know what a perfectly competitive market is? You just contradicted your statement AGAIN.

Props - Harshlands

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

When was the last time you made a significant amount of profit simply by buying a mount and selling it? Or buying something that doesn't give a bulk discount for buying a lot at once? An ancient boa, at 40 gold, is very rare, but desirable, but why don't people pay more than 40 gold for it? Likewise, why is it impossible to sell reset notes at a profit unless you bought it at discount? Does anyone pay more thasn the gold price for a reset? Then why would people pay more than gold price for packs?

This made me laugh. You may throw terms around to sound smart but you clearly haven't paid enough attention or tried enough markets. I've sold things at 150% of their current price, while they are in the boutique. I've sold hundred of mil of merchandise while pricing 25% higher than the shop next to me. I've had people sell their gold (of which I conveniently bought) to get money to buy my boutique items. What your books and theories and fancy terms don't tell you is human behavior. Why do people pay for things higher than gold price? I know the reasons and frankly I don't care to share it. Until you factor the human behavior into your equation, you will always be the inferior shop.

You two really should just stop this pointless argument. The only rule I follow is supply/demand. That's the only rule I need to predict prices. Everything else is pointless jargon.

Burnout - Harshlands

Props - Harshlands wrote: »

This made me laugh. You may throw terms around to sound smart but you clearly haven't paid enough attention or tried enough markets. I've sold things at 150% of their current price, while they are in the boutique. I've sold hundred of mil of merchandise while pricing 25% higher than the shop next to me. I've had people sell their gold (of which I conveniently bought) to get money to buy my boutique items. What your books and theories and fancy terms don't tell you is human behavior. Why do people pay for things higher than gold price? I know the reasons and frankly I don't care to share it. Until you factor the human behavior into your equation, you will always be the inferior shop.

You two really should just stop this pointless argument. The only rule I follow is supply/demand. That's the only rule I need to predict prices. Everything else is pointless jargon.

Do you know why? You are taking advantage of a market where there is imperfect information. The person who bought that item from you did not know that he could get it cheaper somewhere else. Do I really have to provide an example of every single item you can and can't earn a profit from?

As for: why do people pay for things higher than gold price?

Take a computer chip. It's made out of silicon, right? Silicon is actually worthless, so why do people pay such a massive premium for a peice of worthless silicone? The profits earned from selling a computer chip, is actually from the service provided. A person does not want to go to school, learn how to make a computer, etc. In short, there is imperfect information. Break the chip in half, and it becomes as worthless as a piece of plastic and silicone. Where does supply and demand explain that?

When you sell an item for 150% of its price, it's either because it was on sale and it's not anymore (easy), or that they want it NOW, and are willing to pay a time premium in order to not have to wait.

Also, tbh, all you're doing is namecalling. I've never claimed I was the smartest person. I'm probably not even the smartest guy in my neighborhood. But the fact that your post doesn't actually include any real information, and you're just trying to brag about your profits and how my shop is "inferior", kinda proves that in all likelihood you're bluffing, and I actually know what I'm talking about.

Again, I don't refer to calling anyone dumb or stupid. I just state the facts.

Economics is the study of how humans react rationally in a world of limited resources. It is ALL about human behavior.

Props - Harshlands

Oh please, all you have to do is go through your past posts to see most of them were consisted of you bragging about your merchanting. Hell, this thread was made to brag about your merchanting. You made a few coins selling things, grats, want a cookie? At least WarrenWolfy wrote a guide for it, but all you you are doing is stroking your own epeen. No real merchants are impressed, because you are still only doing the basics. Until you know how, and have the capital, to adjust the market price of your current merchandise to your wish overnight, you are just another cat.

Your computer chip example is completely irrelevant because, 90% of the time, we don't process our merchandise.

It's not in my nature and favor to help other shops with what they aren't seeing. You are right, you know what you are talking about and nothing more needs to be said. Keep on bragging on the forum about the couple of bil you've made.

This isn't my main shop anymore but I keep it for nostalgic reason. Back to afk~

Okopogo - Harshlands

Economics class all over again. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

LoLBoaT - Harshlands

1) This thread is lame.

2) You are not in the top 20.

3) Many players don't visit the forums.

4) Quit showing off.

5) Your economics fail.

6) BestDealz ftw.

Burnout - Harshlands

Props - Harshlands wrote: »

Oh please, all you have to do is go through your past posts to see most of them were consisted of you bragging about your merchanting. Hell, this thread was made to brag about your merchanting. You made a few coins selling things, grats, want a cookie? At least WarrenWolfy wrote a guide for it, but all you you are doing is stroking your own epeen. No real merchants are impressed, because you are still only doing the basics. Until you know how, and have the capital, to adjust the market price of your current merchandise to your wish overnight, you are just another cat.

Your computer chip example is completely irrelevant because, 90% of the time, we don't process our merchandise.

It's not in my nature and favor to help other shops with what they aren't seeing. You are right, you know what you are talking about and nothing more needs to be said. Keep on bragging on the forum about the couple of bil you've made.

This isn't my main shop anymore but I keep it for nostalgic reason. Back to afk~

So you're being baited by a troll thread? How smart does that make you look? Did I ever call anyone stupid or inferior like you? The fact that you can't stand seeing someone brag about their successes, means you are unsure of yourself and want to prove something.

So you want to somehow "prove" that I'm not smart or w/e it is you claim, so that you can feel better yourself? Guess what? I don't give a ****. I brag on these forums because it's funny as hell to me.

Do I *actually* think I'm the greatest, best thing since sliced bread? Nope. I just like to have fun. But if trying to "disprove" others is your thing, go for it, man. I'll still just be enjoying myself on the forums and coming back to the game every few months to enjoy the sights.

TY for providing so much entertainment for me. Go look up more things on wikipedia.

Edit: The OP was just a joke, btw. Notice I haven't posted anything about a list? I made the OP without expecting anyone to actually reply(and really, I didn't get a reply. If you actually replied, I would have laughed pretty hard), and with no intention to actually make a list.

Edit 2: Full disclosure. I. Am. A. Forum. Troll.

Burnout - Harshlands

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm assuming you're putting the entire amount into the game. If that is the case, I'll put you down as having a wealth of:

125,800,000,000,000 rounded to the nearest hundred-billion'ths.

This puts you at a little over 125 trillion coins.

According to my lists, if you put all your assets into PWI this would make you our current #1 richest player on Harshlands.

































I think longknife and tfi3f are somewhere around #4200 or so (estimated).

Here's a post I made on the first page of this thread. Did you actually think I was being serious and really believed he would put 125 trillion coin worth of zen into the game and that I was putting his name on my list?

b:laugh

Halt - Harshlands

today I bought 3 antelopes a unicorn and a bulbfish. How much do I has???

Burnout - Harshlands

Halt - Harshlands wrote: »

today I bought 3 antelopes a unicorn and a bulbfish. How much do I has???

I think your networth is somewhere between nothing and 0.

On the bright side though, the bulbfish makes a tasty sushi, and the unicorn can open up old bottles of wine for you (if you cut its head off, you won't even have to feed it).

Dunno 'bout the antelopes. Maybe soup?

TwinDreams - Harshlands

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Go read a basic economics book, or even the "link" you provided, and try to apply its principles to real life. You can't. The book teaches you economics under an ideal, perfect world.

Hey I thought we are in a perfect world?

Burnout - Harshlands

TwinDreams - Harshlands wrote: »

Hey I thought we are in a perfect world?

laaame pun is laaaame. My eyes!

_UrNightMare - Harshlands

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm assuming you're putting the entire amount into the game. If that is the case, I'll put you down as having a wealth of:

125,800,000,000,000 rounded to the nearest hundred-billion'ths.

This puts you at a little over 125 trillion coins.

According to my lists, if you put all your assets into PWI this would make you our current #1 richest player on Harshlands.

































I think longknife and tfi3f are somewhere around #4200 or so (estimated).

u fail cause if he put the entire amount into the game gold price will go down to like 100k each

Aijou - Harshlands

sooo.
seeing as i dont bind ANYTHING that isnt autobind i'd like to know where i stand in this whole thing.

I'm taking this from memory of what i have and what it was worth at the time i quit.. here goes.
All numbers are rounded guesses
Flights - 120mil
Mounts - 65mil
Female Fashion - 80mil
Male Fashion - 20mil
Venos Armor - 70mil excluding weap
Psychic's Armor - 80mil including weap
Sins armor - 30mil
Venos Weap = 50mil
Baby Pets - 10mil (?)
Charms in Bank - 30mil
Coin at hand - Somewhere between 100 and 150 if i remember right across all my alts.
Tomes - ~120m
Stock on merchant alt - 100-120m in tokens.
100m in saved cannys and raps

Total = Approx 1,045m.

Account bound items =
Herc & Nix - 150mil each.
R8 for 4 characters - 90mil each
Bound gear - 200mil
Bound capes - 240mil

Total = 680m

I merched and farmed too much as a noob.

Burnout - Harshlands

_UrNightMare - Harshlands wrote: »

u fail cause if he put the entire amount into the game gold price will go down to like 100k each

....

You fail even more to assume that he would put that much gold into the game, then try to sell ALL of it for coin.

Does OPEC release ALL of its oil all at once?

gtfo forums bro, ur only getting trolled hard.

Vixre - Harshlands

Aijou - Harshlands wrote: »

sooo.
seeing as i dont bind ANYTHING that isnt autobind i'd like to know where i stand in this whole thing.

I'm taking this from memory of what i have and what it was worth at the time i quit.. here goes.
All numbers are rounded guesses
Flights - 120mil
Mounts - 65mil
Female Fashion - 80mil
Male Fashion - 20mil
Venos Armor - 70mil excluding weap
Psychic's Armor - 80mil including weap
Sins armor - 30mil
Venos Weap = 50mil
Baby Pets - 10mil (?)
Charms in Bank - 30mil
Coin at hand - Somewhere between 100 and 150 if i remember right across all my alts.
Tomes - ~120m
Stock on merchant alt - 100-120m in tokens.
100m in saved cannys and raps

Total = Approx 1,045m.

Account bound items =
Herc & Nix - 150mil each.
R8 for 4 characters - 90mil each
Bound gear - 200mil
Bound capes - 240mil

Total = 680m

I merched and farmed too much as a noob.

Given your interesting threads on Veno builds and your current gear, I'm high skeptical of both the values of your equipment as well as how you've pulled those numbers out of thin air. b:bye

devotion

Any merchant who gives even a recognition to the act of merchanting is already doing it wrong.

That being said and since I don't play any more, the hardest part of merchanting is justifying logging into your main at the cost of closing one of your clients. Any one who says merchanting is hard is bull****ting.

Also, for any new merchants, don't keep your money in bank notes. Any money you are saving for longer than the short term should be in gold.

Burnout - Harshlands

devotion wrote: »

Any merchant who gives even a recognition to the act of merchanting is already doing it wrong.

That being said and since I don't play any more, the hardest part of merchanting is justifying logging into your main at the cost of closing one of your clients. Any one who says merchanting is hard is bull****ting.

Also, for any new merchants, don't keep your money in bank notes. Any money you are saving for longer than the short term should be in gold.

Thanks for contributing to my amazing thread about recognizing merchanters.