Sage Claw Farmer
Comments
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Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »Seems you already choosen yourself b:laugh Well, just in case it adds some credibility to my comments above : I'm a sage sin and can solo what you're planning on. The aps is only a minor factor in soloing stuff like 3-x on a sin, you won't go in and sparkmacro then afk till things die.
But don't take into account what everyone said b:chuckle
Reminds me of this : http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1175131
A little later, you will post something like this : http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1193781
Cya and have fun xD
Well can you post a link of your gear?0 -
stealthxbomber wrote: »Well can you post a link of your gear?
This is the basis of what Empu has. His refines range from +7-11, with +12 on the weapon and he's sharded with DoTs.
If he feels that he needs more defenses, he'll swap out the Lionheart Belt for his R9 belt.
Obviously, you're going to point out that he has Rank 9 and therefore obviously should be able to solo TTs. However, the point isn't that he's Rank 9, the point is that he's only 2.5 or 2.86 APS. Also, I'd like to point you to Cheze soloing Harpy Wraith. He does it on a Demon sin that has, at most, 3.33 aps. Clearly these two instances of "low" APS people achieving some pretty impressive soloing feats would be evidence as to the unnecessity of APS when it comes to soloing. Also, the DPS factor is kinda redundant with Harpy Wraith, since it takes so long to kill it in the first place: you can't avoid the self-buff, which Cheze deals with by using a Heaven Shatterer to purge her.
Oh, and before you point out that Cheze is fully buffed and therefore not "soloing", I'll just point out that it's easy as pie to level up an alt for buffs. It's especially redundant to argue that buffs aren't "soloing" with the new multiclienting rule making it rather simple to buff yourself.
Oh, and for the whole DPS point: A friend of mine is a 5.0 aps +10 Deicide BM. A R8 +10 2.86 Sage Sin would have DPS equal to him, more than him if you had the set bonus from 2 pieces of Nirvana or sharded with DoTs.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Obviously, you're going to point out that he has Rank 9 and therefore obviously should be able to solo TTs. However, the point isn't that he's Rank 9, the point is that he's only 2.5 or 2.86 APS. Also, I'd like to point you to Cheze soloing Harpy Wraith. He does it on a Demon sin that has, at most, 3.33 aps. Clearly these two instances of "low" APS people achieving some pretty impressive soloing feats would be evidence as to the unnecessity of APS when it comes to soloing. Also, the DPS factor is kinda redundant with Harpy Wraith, since it takes so long to kill it in the first place: you can't avoid the self-buff, which Cheze deals with by using a Heaven Shatterer to purge her.
TY for stating out the whole point b:thanks
Soloing is about 3 points :
-Survivability, cause you have to be able to take a few hits if you want to solo anything that is worth soloing. You will be stunned/sealed/debuffed and you will have to rebuff/tidal on 3-x bosses.
-DPS, because even though my seeker is a pro survivor, nobody gonna solo a boss if it takes 50min to kill it.
-Skill/knowledge of bosses, cause soloing something when you have no idea to predict the special attacks will get you killed.
When saying aps is important, you miss the real point. Aps = spark and thus up your dps and survivability with bp, maybe with purify but that's not so important considering sage spark (some say with the 20% hp gain, but in 3 sec I can bp way more then 20% of my hp 8.7k unbuffed hp). You want aps just for the aps, which makes no sence.
But since you are so determined to go for a semi-ha build, just go find out yourself. 90% of the posts here tell you it's not worth it, and suggest a cheap and easy alternative in the form of a buff alt.0 -
I want to be able to solo 2-3, and eventually 3-x.
Level up an SIN till you can BP yourself then level up a pure magic cleric alt with 3 star equip and duo box with cleric using healing macro on your BM, you should be able to solo whatever you want.
The part you are just not getting about using a SIN is that if you go claw sage you will blow whatever extra damage reduction and extra BP % heal on the fact that it will take you longer to kill stuff and the heals won't be as good as a 2% heal off a dagger demon SIN
Bottom line is a, a claw sage SIN will not make soloing easier overall than a 5.0 BM with BP0 -
stealthxbomber wrote: »Sage assassin has damage reduction from spark, sage bp, 33% focused mind, deaden nerves, and rib strike against bosses.
edit: my bm already has what i linked in calc, except lunar neck and tt99 HA plateThis is my BM's current gear:
http://pwcalc.com/6b615383b7431b4a
I want to be able to solo 2-3, and eventually 3-x. I just don't think I'd have enough defense on an LA/demon sin thats not 5.0 to do that.
Don't want to troll but this don't make sense..really, you just said you don't have TT 99 HA and Lunar Neck and now you have both?ijs..0 -
Don't want to troll but this don't make sense..really, you just said you don't have TT 99 HA and Lunar Neck and now you have both?ijs..
I was referring to my first post when I had everything in the calc I linked, except instead of tt99 HA belt / rank 8 plate I was using lunar neck and tt99 HA plate.0 -
I actually have a claw sin. He is demon and runs with demon Chill of the Deep at all times and is still 4 aps base.
My demon sin using R8 chest:
http://pwcalc.com/320cf44ec1f91202
My demon bm using same gear, but with HA chest:
http://pwcalc.com/1c22a0e9a06126ae
My sin can solo Seat of Torment, debuff boss after the experience room, along with many other instances. All self buffed only.
I have not tried SOT with my BM, but seems about the same on everything else.
BTW, if you don't have a claw sin.... Don't talk **** a out them because you do NOT know. My sin keeps aggro from 4 aps R8+10 sins.... Or worst case, we play aggro tag.0 -
Come on be proud of ur daggers any other class wishes they can use then, u just wanta BM to stealth0
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Sher__Kahn - Harshlands wrote: »I actually have a claw sin. He is demon and runs with demon Chill of the Deep at all times and is still 4 aps base.
My demon sin using R8 chest:
http://pwcalc.com/320cf44ec1f91202
My demon bm using same gear, but with HA chest:
http://pwcalc.com/1c22a0e9a06126ae
My sin can solo Seat of Torment, debuff boss after the experience room, along with many other instances. All self buffed only.
I have not tried SOT with my BM, but seems about the same on everything else.
BTW, if you don't have a claw sin.... Don't talk **** a out them because you do NOT know. My sin keeps aggro from 4 aps R8+10 sins.... Or worst case, we play aggro tag.
Metal damage gem...Wow....Maybe thats why you keep aggro?0 -
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Sher__Kahn - Harshlands wrote: »Not quite sure if you are trolling or not..... I figured it was cheaper to make a Jade Gem and deliver more dmg (elemental dmg).
With this you totally ruined all credibility of your first post about the awesomeness of fist-sin. b:laugh0 -
Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »With this you totally ruined all credibility of your first post about the awesomeness of fist-sin. b:laugh
How do you figure? I don't know for sure how I keep aggro.... Could it be the aps plus the extra 30 attack levels from COD, does the metal dmg do better than physical attack.... I don't know, but I know my sin is great for PVE.
To be honest, I am not trying to prove my claw sin to anyone. I am simply sharing because too many dagger sins gripe and complain about claw sins. Not sure if that is because they don't understand them... Are threatened by it (not that they should. Claw sin is not real good for PVP)... Or simply do not like them because they are not following the normal build. There was plenty of talk against fist BMs and claw Archers before the APS era............
Oh, btw, I am in no way saying that a claw sin is better than a dagger sin. I am defending against the negativity to claw sins. From experience and not speculation.0 -
Sher__Kahn - Harshlands wrote: »How do you figure?
Considering the main use off fists on sin is to spark, even a flawles garnet would result in more damage then the metal shard... That is how I figure. Your garnet will be multiplied by 8.5 or so (3.5 for str, and 5 for spark), your metal shard won't benefit from any multiplier.
For the rest, I'm glad you like your str build fist sin, but I consider a dex build dagger sin has way more potential then any fist sin. Anything you wish to obtain through that kind of build, can be done better or cheaper with a dagger sin or a bm. That it's a re-use of your bms gear makes it cost efficient, but not performant.0 -
Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »Considering the main use off fists on sin is to spark, even a flawles garnet would result in more damage then the metal shard... That is how I figure. Your garnet will be multiplied by 8.5 or so (3.5 for str, and 5 for spark), your metal shard won't benefit from any multiplier.
For the rest, I'm glad you like your str build fist sin, but I consider a dex build dagger sin has way more potential then any fist sin. Anything you wish to obtain through that kind of build, can be done better or cheaper with a dagger sin or a bm. That it's a re-use of your bms gear makes it cost efficient, but not performant.
Fair enough. I actually didn't know about the lack multiplier when sparking because it is elemental damage versus physical damage. Makes sense though... Thank you for schooling me.
I am actually raising another sin on a different account and it will be a sage dagger sin.
Bottom-line is..... Not sure if I would have made a claw sin if I didn't already have the gear and weapon. Just because of the extreme cost.0 -
Sher__Kahn - Harshlands wrote: »Bottom-line is..... Not sure if I would have made a claw sin if I didn't already have the gear and weapon. Just because of the extreme cost.
I suppose your sin is also just a nirvana alt.
The main reason I don't like fist-sins, and consider you'll always be better off with a dagger sin or a bm is :
-In case off a dex-build sin : Nerfing dps for more aps makes no sence to me. Unlike archers, we can use a better melee weapon that is dex-based.
-In case off a str-build sin : You can't use good daggers, unlike a fist-barb that still has his original, also str based, weapon of his lvl to use. Basicly, you can only poke high-hp stuff, so besides soloing TT and nirvana (and even there, I'd rather take a dagger sin for better dps or a bm for hf/buff). No offence, but for tm, rebirth, metal, lunar or gathering experience room, a ha-fist build must plain suck.
For just an alt, I can kinda understand you may think of reusing gear. But I would never recommand it to ppl that actually play the class. b:chuckle Ofc, you can say 95% of the players don't look any further then nirvana and selling fcc...0 -
Yup he is an alt, but not just for Nirvana. We all have our opinions and preferences. I have another sin (currently lvl 59) that I am raising pure dex sin to see what it's like. Because of my gear and weps, I can do things that some sins can't do unless they have better gear. My defenses give me lots of survivabIity.
So the OP has a choice. It is his and he should not be swayed by either of us. Lol0 -
Sher__Kahn - Harshlands wrote: »So the OP has a choice. It is his and he should not be swayed by either of us. Lol
b:laugh He's asking for opinions though.
But yeah, sometimes going against the mainstream pays off. I went sage at the time every sage sin was entiteled as a total idiot. b:chuckle0 -
Sher__Kahn - Harshlands wrote: »Yup he is an alt, but not just for Nirvana. We all have our opinions and preferences. I have another sin (currently lvl 59) that I am raising pure dex sin to see what it's like. Because of my gear and weps, I can do things that some sins can't do unless they have better gear. My defenses give me lots of survivabIity.
So the OP has a choice. It is his and he should not be swayed by either of us. Lol
Just cutting in real quick... Sher Kahn did you originally start pwi on a female wizz???
Just curious cause the name looks familiar...
On topic... No matter how you slice it you are most likely gonna have to grab LA nirvana leggings... And why do you want to be a sage 5 aps fist sin??? Not one to kick a distinctive build idea down... But wouldn't that be much easier to go demon for that choice (yes I already know the answer to the question)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Other names include but not limited to LOKl_ _ClRCE_, _AnGeal_0 -
Massad - Harshlands wrote: »Just cutting in real quick... Sher Kahn did you originally start pwi on a female wizz???
Just curious cause the name looks familiar...
No. First started as a veno. There are a couple variations of the name Sher__Kahn on the server.0 -
Sins are more "survivable" because of the amount of hp they absorb through bloodpaint. This amount is reflective of their damage. Damage of a claw versus a dagger is not even vaguely comparable. a 3.33 sin with comperable refines will out DD your "claw sin" easily. 2% extra "suck" on bloodpaint is not valuable when your damage base is SO much lower.
Basically it just sounds like you want a BM that can stealth, as someone else said. And since you ignore everyone who says dagger > claw, then clearly you're just not getting how much damage daggers output and refuse to get it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »Sins are more "survivable" because of the amount of hp they absorb through bloodpaint. This amount is reflective of their damage. Damage of a claw versus a dagger is not even vaguely comparable. a 3.33 sin with comperable refines will out DD your "claw sin" easily. 2% extra "suck" on bloodpaint is not valuable when your damage base is SO much lower.
Basically it just sounds like you want a BM that can stealth, as someone else said. And since you ignore everyone who says dagger > claw, then clearly you're just not getting how much damage daggers output and refuse to get it.
HP they can make up by sparking more often without needing to use chi skills (saving them for critical moments). Honestly there are valid arguments for either side of this discussion so in the end it's not up to what you, me, or anyone else thinks. If the OP is happy with it then that's great and go them.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »HP they can make up by sparking more often without needing to use chi skills (saving them for critical moments).
b:chuckle Just keep in mind that not all sins have 12k unbuffed hp.0 -
Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »Sins are more "survivable" because of the amount of hp they absorb through bloodpaint. This amount is reflective of their damage. Damage of a claw versus a dagger is not even vaguely comparable. a 3.33 sin with comperable refines will out DD your "claw sin" easily. 2% extra "suck" on bloodpaint is not valuable when your damage base is SO much lower.
Basically it just sounds like you want a BM that can stealth, as someone else said. And since you ignore everyone who says dagger > claw, then clearly you're just not getting how much damage daggers output and refuse to get it.
It sounds like you're one of those sins that just spark>auto attacks. Where did ribstrike and focused mind (33% as sage btw) go? It seems you ignore my posts, because I state that in just about every one. As Traz said, claws allow me to be sage (also gives 25% damage reduc. / 3% BP) while maintaining permaspark without having to use chi skills, allowing me to more effectively time my sparks or use them on something more productive such as power dash (+50% as sageb:pleased). And don't give me that BS that I can't use skills with claws.
Stealth is out of the question in every farmable instance other than FF, because its not like there are any mobs I couldn't otherwise handle on my bm, so I don't see wanting a "stealth bm" the sole reason of making a HA/claw sin.0 -
Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »b:chuckle Just keep in mind that not all sins have 12k unbuffed hp.
I have a sage sin with 6.5k hp base which keeps me grounded about that stuff. You actually have to think on that toon to make sure you stay alive (2.5 aps +6 lunar daggers). b:chucklestealthxbomber wrote: »It sounds like you're one of those sins that just spark>auto attacks. Where did ribstrike and focused mind (33% as sage btw) go? It seems you ignore my posts, because I state that in just about every one. As Traz said, claws allow me to be sage (also gives 25% damage reduc. / 3% BP) while maintaining permaspark without having to use chi skills, allowing me to more effectively time my sparks or use them on something more productive such as power dash (+50% as sageb:pleased). And don't give me that BS that I can't use skills with claws.
Stealth is out of the question in every farmable instance other than FF, because its not like there are any mobs I couldn't otherwise handle on my bm, so I don't see wanting a "stealth bm" the sole reason of making a HA/claw sin.
If all else fails there's this cool thing called a reset note. Seems everyone likes to forget those exist. b:laughBladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
stealthxbomber wrote: »It sounds like you're one of those sins that just spark>auto attacks. Where did ribstrike and focused mind (33% as sage btw) go? It seems you ignore my posts, because I state that in just about every one. As Traz said, claws allow me to be sage (also gives 25% damage reduc. / 3% BP) while maintaining permaspark without having to use chi skills, allowing me to more effectively time my sparks or use them on something more productive such as power dash (+50% as sageb:pleased). And don't give me that BS that I can't use skills with claws.
Stealth is out of the question in every farmable instance other than FF, because its not like there are any mobs I couldn't otherwise handle on my bm, so I don't see wanting a "stealth bm" the sole reason of making a HA/claw sin.
Where in my answer did I even remotely sound like I only spark and auto attack on my sin? Focused Mind will save you sometimes, but not all the time, you must understand 33% chance =/= 100%. Ribstrike just makes the boss hit slower.... Not less hard. As a sin with 12k hp, if I'm not absorbing around 6k damage per spark on a 3-3 boss, I'm dead after a few missed focused mind. As a sage sin you'd still have to be absorbing similar (5k?). Or you could cart a cleric around to add to your already high maintenance pve sin.
So you insult me as a sin because you don't want to pay attention to what I said. Aight.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »Where in my answer did I even remotely sound like I only spark and auto attack on my sin? Focused Mind will save you sometimes, but not all the time, you must understand 33% chance =/= 100%. Ribstrike just makes the boss hit slower.... Not less hard. As a sin with 12k hp, if I'm not absorbing around 6k damage per spark on a 3-3 boss, I'm dead after a few missed focused mind. As a sage sin you'd still have to be absorbing similar (5k?). Or you could cart a cleric around to add to your already high maintenance pve sin.
So you insult me as a sin because you don't want to pay attention to what I said. Aight.
It seemed like you were a spark>auto sin because all you mentioned about a sin's survivability was bloodpaint and damage. You must understand that Focused Mind and Ribstrike both increase survivability. Less hits landed + slower hits = overall less hits, meaning overall less damage taken. I suppose all of these skills would seem a bit high maintinence to a spark>auto attacker.
Your numbers don't really apply, because anyone with a piece of gum for a brain would know not to take a sin with my gear into 3-3.0 -
OontzOontz - Dreamweaver wrote: »Best solution: Make a sage sin for buffs and go solo on your bm with the buffs.
This is exactly what I was thinking as I read the first few postsb:cute0 -
stealthxbomber wrote: »It seemed like you were a spark>auto sin because all you mentioned about a sin's survivability was bloodpaint and damage. You must understand that Focused Mind and Ribstrike both increase survivability. Less hits landed + slower hits = overall less hits, meaning overall less damage taken. I suppose all of these skills would seem a bit high maintinence to a spark>auto attacker.
Your numbers don't really apply, because anyone with a piece of gum for a brain would know not to take a sin with my gear into 3-3.
You take the least amount of damage too if your dead the entire time b:laugh0 -
Kaitica - Heavens Tear wrote: »You take the least amount of damage too if your dead the entire time b:laugh
Then I guess Kerona wins this one. b:cry0
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