Faction Hopping and Boring Factions.

Pandaisshoe - Sanctuary · October 2011

Is faction hopping really that wrong?

So many factions recruiting claiming to be, "Helpful, active fun" and in truth they do not embody even one of those traits.

I've joined factions that claim to be active, yet the leader is never online, when the leader is he/she never talks. Other higher lvl members will only run BH's or TT's. They won't help with reg. quests that I guess are beneath them.

Or you'll ask if anyone in the faction can help and there will be 12 ppl on and NONE of them even reply. At least say " No I can't" or something....

So I guess what this vent is really asking is:

If the faction you are in isn't really for you, is moving on to the next one and so forth so wrong??

Ikarium - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Not in that case, I wouldn't say.

Some people faction hop for the sake of faction hopping. Like social butterflies.
But you joined a faction based on a recruitment pitch, and they don't deliver what they said they would. There's no obligation to stay where you aren't happy, or don't want to be.

Mistbelle - Sanctuary · October 2011

I would say there's absolutely nothing wrong about faction hopping but for larger factions, it can get really annoying/tedious. But that's why a lot of active factions require interviews to get rid of those people.

But in some cases, if you don't feel like it's the right faction for you, there's no reason to stay there.

b:surrender

PriestRain - Raging Tide · October 2011

What Mistbelle said:
"But in some cases, if you don't feel like it's the right faction for you, there's no reason to stay there."

From my personal experience i left TW fac for same reason, then wandered alone, and relied on friends&WC..Then found helpful fac. And i help ppl whenever i can, unless im already in some instance helping someone else or doing my bh, or really sick and only able to chat and nothing else... (happened few times...)

But one thing i learned, don't trust ur best friend in game

(This sentance is off topic but its somehow connected to me when i left that fac.)

NiightmareXz - Harshlands · October 2011

When you're low level, it's not really bad to faction hop. You need a guild that is willing to help you out so you can progress and start helping people below you.
The guild my veno is in is nice, but most of the time I ask for help, no one responds. I think I got help twice? Other times I had to WC or pay someone. >< They're also wanting to pick a director... but the canidiates don't really help either, lol. I would rather have one that actually says like "anyone need help with anything?" instead of random chatting all the time. But anyway... personally, I don't help with normal quests (usually just boss quests or BH/FB.) unless the mobs are so hard that you can't do them alone, because there are a few quests like that. But normally, I think it's better if the person does them solo or gets someone their level range to do it with.

But yeah, there's no shame in faction hopping until you find one that suits you.

Renza - Raging Tide · October 2011

That will always be the problem with these random as hell guilds, you get these muppets making a guild because they think they can be a leader when really, they don't have the first clue, the cause of the problem is with how stupidly cheap it is to make a guild, I reckon now it should be at least 1 mill, though I'd say 2 mill with how easy it is to make money on this game.

I got lucky on pw-my at one time with a guild when I was just randomly in "arch" wanting a guild after I left my last dead faction, had a little chat with the guild leader saying what happened and what not, what I do want out of a guild and what they offer, joined it and was then in that guild for bout half a year or so, had to be one of the best family like guilds I've been in where everyone was close, everyone was talking, we were always on vent and the thing was, the guild was like 15-20 people active, yet I felt more "homely" then in some guilds I've been in where there's like 30-40 people active, your best bet would to just shout for a "family like" guild, not the "fun, active, friendly, helpful" bull **** that everyone says.

Dedz - Raging Tide · October 2011

Pandaisshoe - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've joined factions that claim to be active, yet the leader is never online, when the leader is he/she never talks. Other higher lvl members will only run BH's or TT's. They won't help with reg. quests that I guess are beneath them.

If you need to kill a boss for your quest, then it is perfectly fine to ask for help from a high level.

But if you need to kill 45 of those, 50 of these: LOL!!!! Do your own regular quests. If you want to do regular questing then play the game! Don't let a high level play the game for you. /facepalm

Don't expect help every time you need it. The high level players are not your slaves.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary · October 2011

Dedz - Raging Tide wrote: »

If you need to kill a boss for your quest, then it is perfectly fine to ask for help from a high level.

But if you need to kill 45 of those, 50 of these: LOL!!!! Do your own regular quests. If you want to do regular questing then play the game! Don't let a high level play the game for you. /facepalm

Don't expect help every time you need it. The high level players are not your slaves.

I agree and disagree, some regular quests can be a ***** and sometimes (when your new to the game) they can be alittle behind on defence/attack to actually make it worthwile.

I mean i've helped with alot of reg quests (that is if i notice they put an effort in at first tho) where they got so frustrated with dieing over and over and over on the same mob.

Samaela - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Dedz - Raging Tide wrote: »

If you need to kill a boss for your quest, then it is perfectly fine to ask for help from a high level.

But if you need to kill 45 of those, 50 of these: LOL!!!! Do your own regular quests. If you want to do regular questing then play the game! Don't let a high level play the game for you. /facepalm

Don't expect help every time you need it. The high level players are not your slaves.

This. I help with any boss/culti/BH/TT/FC/FB/Revives(when I'm close-ish) if people need me, but I don't help on regular quests. I have my own to do and all that. Regular quests should be perfectly fine to do on your own after all, despite them taking forever. Anyway, I've yet to meet a faction who does that for their members on a regular base, so, if you look for that, I suggest you find a good friend in your level range. Who usually have the same quests as you do.

To the rest of the post, I don't think what you have been doing is what's considered the faction hopping. I've been a part of my fair share of factions before I found the one I belong with.

Pandaisshoe - Sanctuary · October 2011

When I say reg quests I mean the ones with bosses or chains. For example, on my other toon I asked for help with the Coming-of-Age: Loyalty quest. There were over 20 in my faction online at that time and I got not one answer. At the time I had this I was well under lvl 50 and I could really have used the help.

20 ppl and no could even say, "No do it yourself."....Something??

I quest solo non stop. Things like killing 55 or 65 mobs isn't really a big deal.. I just take my time.

Heck I need Fugma for 3 weeks before I found someone to help me...someone NOT in my faction.

Getting higher lvls to solo my quests isn't fun for me....but neither is being in a faction that is dead silent or uninvolved with its members unless they are 80+.

I respect factions that put a lvl cap on recruitment. You know you all are pretty much going to be doing the same quests.

But when you recruit all lvls and the only ones that are active are 80+ and not intrested in helping with lower lvl bosses....STOP recruiting lower lvls.

ijs

Samaela - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Pandaisshoe - Sanctuary wrote: »

When I say reg quests I mean the ones with bosses or chains. For example, on my other toon I asked for help with the Coming-of-Age: Loyalty quest. There were over 20 in my faction online at that time and I got not one answer. At the time I had this I was well under lvl 50 and I could really have used the help.

20 ppl and no could even say, "No do it yourself."....Something??

I quest solo non stop. Things like killing 55 or 65 mobs isn't really a big deal.. I just take my time.

Heck I need Fugma for 3 weeks before I found someone to help me...someone NOT in my faction.

.....OUCH. If you were on my server I'd tell you to join my own. We're a bunch of nice people. b:surrender

But yeah, if you faction is somewhat decent, that kind of thing is exactly what they ought to help you with.

brazenbusboy · October 2011

Joining Factions here is a real **** shoot. Other than TW which is irrelevant for those of us on PVE servers, there is no real incentive or benefit to forming factions, so there is not much motivation to do factions right. Instead you get every Tom, **** and Harry with a big epeen who wants to have "Director MyCoolFaction" displayed over his head grabbing a few pals and randoms and in a few minutes you have a new faction.

This tends to attract alot of faction leaders who do it mostly for selfish vanity and to help themselves, not others. Time after time, I see faction leaders getting the lions share of 'help' while the lowbies and others not in the inner circle get ignored most of the time.
I have been in several such factions, where my mid level toon responded to help the leader a number of times to help them run a lowbie alt through and instance. But when I ask maybe once a week for help with a culti boss or my own FB, nothing but silence in faction chat or smug replies like 'you should be able to solo it'.

So untill I find a group that consistently has decent leadership and a good give and take in helping each other, I will be faction hopping too. I see not point in sticking around once it becomes clear that XYZ faction is really just Sammy XYZ's extended friends list they only works one way, ie. when he needs something.

The other pattern is instead of one selfish leader, is the closed clique. Although they recruit lots of new members, the new members are left pretty much on their own in terms of playing together or getting help. The 3-4 in the clique are all in the same level range and play together all the time, but they rarely have time to assist any of the new people.

I would have to say that out of all of my culti bosses, and FB's they have been done with randoms, not faction mates.

I do know it goes the other way though. I have responded to requests for help in some of my factions in the past, only to find that faction mate lowbies were expecting me to solo the instance for them.

The games where I have seen the best factions has been ones where there are incentives for creating and maintaining factions. Things like buffs and convenience items like banks, meeting place, shops, etc.

At present on Dreamweaver, the only factions I see recruiting are the small ones. And sorry but cheesy WC come ons are not going to motivate me to join your faction. Those just tell me your too lazy to ask people one on one or do a decent web page, or even keep a invite up to date in these forums. Most of the larger factions forum posts here are woefully out of date.

Boartracker - Raging Tide · October 2011

I get a kick out of new members and their requests when they come in faction. In the last month or so we've been activilly recruiting 60/70+ and getting a lot of new members. In the last week, I've seen a couple who joined and wanted help before they even signed up on the website, a couple looked at the roster (125 members & levels) and said they had to help a friend build their new faction, I let one resign at my suggestion when he demanded a 100k coin loan after the "welcomes" stopped and a host of requests for grinding quests and BHs. lol

I think that there are a lot of mid-level players who have no idea what to expect from a faction. We use website sing ups for nightly events and try to squeek in BH and such in there to help our members out. I'm continually amazed at how many players won't go to a faction's website to find out what's going on in their faction. I find it hard to believe that they think they are so important as to require an officer to contact them in game and fill them in on what's happening in the faction when a website is much easier to use. Another problem that I see is that many players don't think about what their guild's higher levels are doing in game. We try to weed out the "me, me, me" folks and keep those who are willing to become a part of the teamwork in the faction. I think the faction hoppers are the "me,me,me" folks who never seem to find a faction that meets their expectations. Until they figure out how to work as part of a team, I suspect that they'll just keep moving around until they run out of factions that will take them.

My advise on faction shoping would be to ask questions. Do the member's level range match yours? How many members do they have and how many are usually on line during your playing time? Do they schedule events/ runs or do they just randomly do things? Do they have things that interest you like a mat banks, vent, or base? What is their member ages like? (Older players tend to be more stable and plan things out better, and have less drama, IMO.) Do they have faction rules and do they enforce them? Do their officers do any help runs? Do they offer a "trial period" so you can check them out? These are a few questions that I would ask if I were looking for a faction. If you are "special" and need a personal consult daily to keep you up to date on faction events/ runs, you're not going to find many factions that will make you happy.

b:bye

Semper Fi,

Bearish - Sanctuary · October 2011

everyday im shufflin

CritCat - Archosaur · October 2011

Bearish - Sanctuary wrote: »

everyday im shufflin

Perfectly describes my playstyle when I was in my 70s-85ish.

b:surrender

Tallain_ - Heavens Tear · October 2011

when ya mean "active" people in factions.. that dont neccesarily mean talkatvie.... kinda hard to go blabbering in chat while you're killing **** lol

And maybe your factions really do suck... lmao idk... my guild Drifters helps anyone they can (and we've got people from starting lvls to over 100).

Coral_blades - Dreamweaver · October 2011

imo, faction jumping isnt rly wrong... ppl r just trying 2 find the faction that supplys all their needs and it takes quite a while to find that faction thats just right 4 you.

Tallain_ - Heavens Tear · October 2011

took me one faction b:chuckle

NiightmareXz - Harshlands · October 2011

Boartracker - Raging Tide wrote: »

... Another problem that I see is that many players don't think about what their guild's higher levels are doing in game. We try to weed out the "me, me, me" folks and keep those who are willing to become a part of the teamwork in the faction. I think the faction hoppers are the "me,me,me" folks who never seem to find a faction that meets their expectations. Until they figure out how to work as part of a team, I suspect that they'll just keep moving around until they run out of factions that will take them...

This is where all the ignorant high level epeens come out to play.
How do you expect any lowbie to become part of the team if they can't kill a single boss solo yet? Yes, lowbies are gonna be "me, me, me" because they can't kill bosses by themselves. They NEED the culti bosses done so they can level up properly and start helping out.
My veno is only level 64. She's been in her guild since she was level 19. I got help twice from them. There's 3 culti quest chains inbetween that time. I can tell you who DIDN'T help with it even after asking every day for a week. I can also tell you who has to WC for FB squads. And yet, I still go and kill low level bosses for people on my veno. Hell, if I actually cared about that guild, I might hop on my archer and take them on BHs. But if you don't give, you don't receive.
The one good thing I can say about that guild is they talk. Too bad they have the ever so popular "clique" and as soon as you start talking, everyone in the "clique" shuts up.

God I miss Wargasm.

Lana - Raging Tide · October 2011

I think it is wrong to join a faction expecting help. I believe the reason to join a faction should be to help each other out, not only get help. For that purpose, why join a faction with high levels anyways?
Join a faction your level range and dont expect higher levels to help you with everything. Ofc most cant solo bosses etc, but isnt that what a faction should be for? Finding people, that actually need the same thing and do it together. That is my belief at least.

Imagine what people did before the server was full with high leveled players. Guess what, they formed a squad of people that needed the same thing, maybe they got killed trying once or twice, but in the end everyone got it done.

The way of asking for help usually makes a big difference for me too. Some people are just rude and expect you to drop anything youre doing to help them, and start complaining if they cant get help in 5 mins. Patience seems to be very rare nowadays.

E.g. someone asking in FC: "Hey, i have this boss to kill, anyone else needs it? Lets do it together!"
is completely different from: "I need help with boss XX, someone kill it for me plssssss!!!".

Also helping others out randomly will make it easier for you to recieve help in return, personally i never help people that I know wont help others ever.

Ikarium - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Asking for help is one thing......

Things I will not help with are regular quests and bh's. Sorry if it takes you 30mins to kill 45 of one mobs to get drops. Squad with people the same range.
Exceptions, ofc, are bosses and things not meant to be done solo (Wraithgate 20x3, TT stuff and so forth).
And bh is a daily. An optional daily. High levels plowing through it for low levels teaches nothing, except that they don't have to do anything except beg for a high level to do things for them. BH's, when done in the proper level ranges are supposed to teach squad dynamics.

Poilteness counts for a lot too. I've seen a fair share of people who think I levelled characters to 100 for the sole purpose of dropping what I'm doing to solo all their quests for them on a moments notice.
I'll be glad to help with that boss...just gimme 15mins to finish this bh, or whatever. Don't demand I come now. I've seen people leave a faction coz they couldn't wait literally 3 mins for a higher level to be free.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Asking for help is one thing......

Things I will not help with are regular quests and bh's. Sorry if it takes you 30mins to kill 45 of one mobs to get drops. Squad with people the same range.
Exceptions, ofc, are bosses and things not meant to be done solo (Wraithgate 20x3, TT stuff and so forth).
And bh is a daily. An optional daily. High levels plowing through it for low levels teaches nothing, except that they don't have to do anything except beg for a high level to do things for them. BH's, when done in the proper level ranges are supposed to teach squad dynamics.

Poilteness counts for a lot too. I've seen a fair share of people who think I levelled characters to 100 for the sole purpose of dropping what I'm doing to solo all their quests for them on a moments notice.
I'll be glad to help with that boss...just gimme 15mins to finish this bh, or whatever. Don't demand I come now. I've seen people leave a faction coz they couldn't wait literally 3 mins for a higher level to be free.

Meh you run your bhs a thousand times, and people cna be pretty hostile if you don't have that days bh on dungeons with lots of bosses, like bh59 for example. It's also a huge letdown to spend over a 100k in teles (hard to come by in the level range) only for it to be a complete waste and have to spend even MORE money on it the next day and still may be unable to get it done. I"ll help with bhs if I can, but I also do ask that they attempt to get a squad on their own first. Having a high level run them through every last bh doesn't teach them anything, but having someone come help you every now and then as they work through the bhs is nice. It's not like they haven't learned what to do, and how to help after a certain point of running the same bh again everyday.

Okeano - Harshlands · October 2011

Faction hoping actually works against you getting helped by your faction. Everyone's got their things to do and yes there are some who are more helpful than others. But it's much easier getting helped by people who you known for a while than by people in a strange new faction. Chat with people more in faction chat, joke around more, don't just use it for asking for help. Once you get to know everyone well enough, help comes by easier.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Faction hoping actually works against you getting helped by your faction. Everyone's got their things to do and yes there are some who are more helpful than others. But it's much easier getting helped by people who you known for a while than by people in a strange new faction. Chat with people more in faction chat, joke around more, don't just use it for asking for help. Once you get to know everyone well enough, help comes by easier.

This +10000. If i'm tired, or not really feeling like playing and just going to log off. Often the difference between me logging off or doing that one last thing, is if we're friends or if it's just some random who is always quiet when I need help or want to talk but never hesitates to ask the faction when they need help.

Hazumi_chan - Sanctuary · October 2011

I've been in quite some faction, the first and current one suiting me best.
I don't think faction hopping is wrong, however, it can be annoying for the faction you're joining. I always stay at least 1 week in the faction to see how I like it. I also tell the faction leader that.
As some already said though, if you need help, have some patience. I've also seen people leave after 5 minutes because I wouldn't help them with regulair mobs at lvl 7

mogwai · October 2011

When it comes down to it if you've been in 10-15 factions & still can't seem to fit anywhere, it's time to start your own. b:bye

Metalpuritan - Sanctuary · October 2011

AT OP:

LOL, ask them if they have vent, that could be a good reason why they don't chat. Chat is for simpletons. Chat is for people who are not gamers. I don't talk in chat, chat is slow and cumbersome. Any REAL gamer has a headset and mic for communication. Yeah, I just said it.

A good example, my cleric is logged in but guess what, I am on my barb, no way am I going to see your chat even if I wanted to.

And then at that if I did see it chances are the lowbie has no idea what is going on and won't listen even if i explain what is going till I am blue in the face.

Trying to help some of you is like herding cats....impossible. If you are here complaining, chances are it is your fault. Either you are cluesless and every one but you can see it, or you just suck and no one wants to waste thier time on you.

Get a mic and headset, and download, Teamspeak or Ventrilo, or Skype, or GSC, or Mumble. Did I miss one? w/e it doesn't matter just ask the people in your faction what voice chat they are using, they will tell you. Maybe then they will be able to comunicate to you, god willing you listen to them.

mogwai · October 2011

Yes then everyone is offended when you don't use push to talk with vent...pushing some other button while trying to fight stuff doesn't work. So are you chatting or fighting? (fighting = gaming).

Empu - Sanctuary · October 2011

There is always 2 sides of 1 story.

I don't see faction hopping as a bad thing, everyone does what he/she wants. I know a few that have each of their alts in a different faction, others have all in 1, and some (my case) have only their main in a faction.

But from a factions point of view, mainly factions with no land on the map, you will see that 95% of the ppl joining are simply there for a lvl-up and gear-up service. Once they get 100+ with decent gear, they will apply to a faction with a land on the map, and you'll just be cool enough to hang out (i.e. lvl-up and gear-up) their alt. Some might consider this normal, the only reason to join a faction besides tw. But I think it's annoying, when you help ppl that never do something in return for others, that won't come for a wb cause they have to do bh, and then state "you should be happy to even have me in your faction".

Personally, as 1 of the high lvls in a small-faction, I don't feel like I have to help everyone all the time when they snatch their fingers. I try to balance between my own things, faction and friends. Most I have seen in the number of factions I've been in the past 2,5 years+, just beg for instant help on everything, and when they get to lvls where they can help they "poof" to a tw faction and get their ego so pumped up you can't even get in a 10m range of them without feeling oppressed. Most fun is when they find out after, all factions have their "friend-groups", and then they come back begging for your help again.

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary · October 2011

I fac hop like mad >_>. Honestly, under all my characters, I may have been in all the non-TW factions lol... I lost count. About 30+? There's a trend with the reasons I leave them;

1. yeah when they say they are helpful and active, I'm usually grabbed along with the other fools(heh). Then it turns out to be quite clique-ish and quiet(because they are in vent and not telling anyone).

2. I'm not a homophobe, but I don't care to read lesbians' man-hate. A lot of factions seem to have these.

3. The leader expects all to run it, except the leader him/herself.

4. If there's vent, I know I'm not gonna stay long. Vent creates an isolating atmosphere and is a breeder for cliques. The "little people" are left out and ignored because they aren't in the channel, while the vent people organize **** amongst themselves. Faction = slow death. Some will disagree, some will not, but this has always been the case for the ones I've joined.

Factions, I call BS on from the get go and don't even join it:

"We are looking for new members. We do TT/TW/FCC/BH..."

FIRST OF ALL, I have been in only 1 faction that did TT(my favorite instance). If ANY TT is being run, it's almost always going to be unannounced and amongst the clique.

And FCC is a clique dungeon -.-.

Who cares about BH?

So far the best fac I WAS in, slowly became trash and I hate it when that happens. Starts off so good, then you see ALL the familiar signs that it's going to the crapper.

I thought about running my own faction, but I decided against this because no matter how many members I help, I can't take them all, and even then, being helpful is not always enough to make someone feel happy where they are. Being leader is more work than just having the title. I don't think some people understand that yet.

Darqueanisa - Raging Tide · October 2011

Enjoying the view from that high horse??
Not EVERY faction uses vent or whatever.

Call me a FAKE gamer then because I do not use anytime of chat. It's a GAME!! Don't slit your wrists over it.

Your the type of higher lvl that just creeps under my skin. Of course most lowbies don't know what's going on. Can you say NEW TO THE GAME?? It helps having someone with you, um "expertise" explain things a bit. It took me well over a month to figure out what SP was. Bh's and TT's.....Things like that go right over a lower levels head.

I would love to take the advice of a higher level thats not a d**k. If your explanation of killing Shade Eido is as follows: "Go to SP..Find the room, Kill him." <~~~Sorry, thats a no go.

Lowbies are BABIES. In just about every way shape and form. I know quite a few and they don't ask ppl to do the quests for them, but they do need help.

It's the lowbies fault that he/she joined a faction claiming to be active and helpful, friendly and ready to help ppl lvl? Only to join and find out it's a group of friends recruiting out of boredom and anyone not in their little clique is ignored.

Clueless?? What are forums for, but to educate those who are unaware. Your what a lvl 100? If i'm not mistaken you had to start from 1 right? So at some point you were that lowbie that sucked and no one wanted to waste the time on you. If so, then your doing the same thing. Nice transference there.

But hey who am I? Just another cog in the pwi wheel.b:shutup

Metalpuritan - Sanctuary wrote: »

AT OP:

LOL, ask them if they have vent, that could be a good reason why they don't chat. Chat is for simpletons. Chat is for people who are not gamers. I don't talk in chat, chat is slow and cumbersome. Any REAL gamer has a headset and mic for communication. Yeah, I just said it.

A good example, my cleric is logged in but guess what, I am on my barb, no way am I going to see your chat even if I wanted to.

And then at that if I did see it chances are the lowbie has no idea what is going on and won't listen even if i explain what is going till I am blue in the face.

Trying to help some of you is like herding cats....impossible. If you are here complaining, chances are it is your fault. Either you are cluesless and every one but you can see it, or you just suck and no one wants to waste thier time on you.

Get a mic and headset, and download, Teamspeak or Ventrilo, or Skype, or GSC, or Mumble. Did I miss one? w/e it doesn't matter just ask the people in your faction what voice chat they are using, they will tell you. Maybe then they will be able to comunicate to you, god willing you listen to them.

Faction Hopping and Boring Factions.

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