Why not limit the Weopons to the Classes they actually designed for?

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

OH BOY, this old chestnut b:shocked

TanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lies, credit cards aren't class locked! b:avoid

I see what you did there -.- and you should feel awesome about it

LF> picture of a sin and bm fighting with credit cards

halfadinnermint

Every time I see this tired, dusty old excuse for a suggestion brought up, I think the same thing. If you want to make the weapons class locked, go all the way. Sorry BMs you just lost your right to axes/hammers because barbs need them. Oh, and kiss your swords goodbye too, since seekers have the rights to those all locked up. So, what's left? Fists/claws and spears. Hmm. Have fun with those. No, the other classes don't care that you have skills for all of those. We are just tired of listening to you whine about how everyone infringes on your precious right to use claws.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

This idea is lame, I love my TT70 bow too much for it to be limited to Archers. b:pleased

Traz - Dreamweaver

halfadinnermint wrote: »

Every time I see this tired, dusty old excuse for a suggestion brought up, I think the same thing. If you want to make the weapons class locked, go all the way. Sorry BMs you just lost your right to axes/hammers because barbs need them. Oh, and kiss your swords goodbye too, since seekers have the rights to those all locked up. So, what's left? Fists/claws and spears. Hmm. Have fun with those. No, the other classes don't care that you have skills for all of those. We are just tired of listening to you whine about how everyone infringes on your precious right to use claws.

That was a very dumb post, if you have a mastery for it, it's your class weapon. That doesn't mean it has to be class locked to ONE class only.

Valirah - Sanctuary

Yay, yet another "lock the weapons" thread made by somebody who's probably too short-sighted to see that this would have the exact opposite effect that they are hoping for.

These threads are usually made by people who miss the diversity of classes that the game used to have. Now-a-days you walk down the street and may see 4 'Sins, 2 BM's, 2 Archers, a Barb, a Cleric and a Veno. Make the change to lock weapons and the Archers and Barb get replaced with 'Sin's/BMs. How exactly does that help class diversity?

Koolaid - Heavens Tear

Yes, maybe we can see an archer using a bow again. Very rare anymore

Valirah - Sanctuary

Koolaid - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes, maybe we can see an archer using a bow again. Very rare anymore

No, you won't see any Archer at all, you'll see the 'Sin who took his place. The game is 5.0 or GTFO. Restricting 5.0 will make Archers as popular as Wizards on farming runs. Barbs would still have a place as a buff mule and to lend the Devour assist to the rest of the 5.0 squad.

Yeah, that's soooo much better than what we have now.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Koolaid - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes, maybe we can see an archer using a bow again. Very rare anymore

This change would do nothing to make bows more effective versus a 5.0 character. Bows would have to get a significant boost to accomplish what you want.

Traz - Dreamweaver

I think it was utter **** they left everyone do w/e they want but EG was the only discriminated race..... I'm fine with them starting to use class restrictions but how about we sort that out fully and not half *** it?

Nightsfangs - Archosaur

Amencat - Sanctuary wrote: »

The thing is, noone besides the sins can use daggers. And noone besides the psys can use the soulweapon. So what about the other weopons?


Why dont make the Bows archers only? Fist only bms, etc.?

Its kind of unfair to limit some weapons, and some not.

This game is not tought trough b:lipcurl


So noone besides Archers would be in adwantage to be able to kill fast from afar in events like the snowmans every year.

Every class would be limited to his specific advantages and disatvantages, i would really like that

b:surrender

There is no reason to do that, there is no need to prevent anyone to use any weapon, but there are classes who specialaze in sertain weapons wich means they have better benefits using those weapons.
Most games go on that logic and I find it prety normal.

Kitkate - Dreamweaver

I have lvl 1 fists on my veno just for kicks. I like punching low lvl stuff with them just for the hell of it. I also like having fist fights with wizzies.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Nightsfangs - Archosaur wrote: »

There is no reason to do that, there is no need to prevent anyone to use any weapon, but there are classes who specialaze in sertain weapons wich means they have better benefits using those weapons.
Most games go on that logic and I find it prety normal.

Claws/Fists give better benefits to barbs more than Axes/Hammers. Now discuss.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

5.0 dagger Archer FTW?

Personally, I'd rather see certain kinds of weapons be 'any class', like bows. I have used a bow on every single character I have except my Cleric, Psy, Seeker, and Mystic. Yes, my Veno had a bow for a long time. Yes, my BM has and uses a bow on occasion. Yes, I wish my Seeker could use a ****ing bow.

However, I'd rather see either 1) either everything else restricted by class or 2) ALL restrictions lifted. The term 'kludgy' was used on page 1, and I think it was very appropriate.

A HS might not be your primary weapon in TW on a BM/Sin/anything but Archer, but if you are a Seeker with enough Dex, it would increase your utility. Then again i doubt my BM will ever have the dex to use a HS without a level 4 or level 5 tome anyway.

The lack of the ability to equip and use a bow actually is the main reason I have found that I dislike my Seeker. b:surrender But... IDK. Maybe in the higher levels, it will change. I haven't got the time or energy to level my Seeker right now, so I may never know.

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

Has anyone considered that the reason some may be locked is not for balance/imbalance at all? But rather mechanics, or the easy route in terms of graphics and animation?

Consider Seekers. They wear their swords on their back. Which, I assume required some kind of different coding for them when they are stationary. Dual swords/blades get reversed (as is evidenced by the one on the left being inside out if you look closely). I think its just a matter of it was more work to make every possible weapon appear in this state on a Seekers back (deicides on your back FTW lol)
If game balance was actually a factor here, only claws/fists would be locked out. Whats the point of locking bows out from Seekers? None, other than not having to program them from going on his back and adding attack animations for it.
Daggers and Spheres are the same. Daggers would require adding a different grip and attack animation for any class that tried to use them. Using the same animation and posture for fists/claws may work, but I'm no prgrammer and don't know how that work, or if some of them would even look right.
Spheres have a very different idle posture and attack than any other magic weapon. These postures and animations would also need to be added to every other class.
Yes, they did add in the animations any postures for Tideborn to use bows, claws, etc...
But it just seems to me, the ones that are not interchangable now seems more because of this than worrying about class imbalance or anything. Yeah, you could have a 5.0 dagger archer, but so what? He still lacks mastery, BP and still wouldn't surpass a pure-bred Sin.
And I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it wasn't because it was easier.

Sesshomaru - Lothranis

yea so unfair, cause seekers cant use fist/claws, or bows. Why is EG not as intelligent, and cant use other weapons?

Totally should make it fair for everyone. Only use weapons your class is supposed to jeez

truekossy

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Has anyone considered that the reason some may be locked is not for balance/imbalance at all? But rather mechanics, or the easy route in terms of graphics and animation?

Yep.

truekossy wrote: »

The reason? Well other than the new devs being lazy and not wanting to alter the models for the flexibility of various weapon animations

b:cute

Empu - Sanctuary

Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »

I agree with the part to make each class "equally strong" with obvious differences, but you said that they'll be daggermaster, darchers and so on, there are already clawbarians, and clawrchers and so on, they just use the best weapon possible for them, which are claws, if daggers has less dps i'm sure they'd be clawsins running around.

I just think the terms with "dagger" sound even more stupid then the ones with "fist" or "claw".

Also keep in mind that there are some huge differences between fists/claws and daggers :
-For high aps (cause that is what ppl look at, not dps, dph or crit), you need a rank plate with -int. For now, only archers and sins have that.
-Daggers have a r9 version, that will be by definition, 1 class only. Fists don't have a r9 version.
-Fists have lower attack stats making their mastery not such a big factor as on daggers.
-BM has no real fist-only skill that is worth going bm for the fists (not relating to the other weap skills), sins have plenty.

Even making daggers all class, it won't solve the fact that sins are op. It won't change a thing to how it's now : the only reason to take any other class then a sin to nirvana/tt, is a class related skill (looking at comparable gear ofc). Barbs/clerics are there for buffs, bms for buff and hf/gs, veno for amp/purge. For the rest, who cares if they use fists or daggers? Not like they will outdamage sins all the sudden lol

beforesun

there is just one problem they would have to solve if they wanted to lift the restrictions - they have to program how it looks like if one of the old classes handles one of the not restricted weapons.. It's simply that they only draw movments for a seeker handling swords, just to name an example. So they cann't just switch on the weapons for each class.

What about the other way. Lets say, they switch to a system where some of the weapons now used by other classes than the one they were designed for, like claws on a Archer. lets say you have an 5APS archer, made him new nirvana claws and now they switch so you cann't use them. You would complain or even worse you would leave the game. So who are the ppl affected by such a change, right the ppl paying the game. The cashshopper. So, do you really think they change sth. that will most likely make most of their paying custommers unhappy? I don't think so.

So all in all, get used to the limitations.

SoulPlay - Heavens Tear

you know what to be honest i dont wanna use anyother wep i love my r8 sword she cuts through anything she looks smexy and she dont need aps to make her work

about lowing aps cap hmm maybe but i dont see it as a massive problem would be funny though to see those 400 damages hit without aps as im hitting u over 6k

being serious now though 2.50 - 3.00 is a ok cap i can pull agro from this and defo barbs can giving the game 2 real tanks to play and a squad format back into dungeons

other thought imagine seeker 10 att and def levels debuff just for personal use lol

rolarosama

halfadinnermint wrote: »

Every time I see this tired, dusty old excuse for a suggestion brought up, I think the same thing. If you want to make the weapons class locked, go all the way. Sorry BMs you just lost your right to axes/hammers because barbs need them. Oh, and kiss your swords goodbye too, since seekers have the rights to those all locked up. So, what's left? Fists/claws and spears. Hmm. Have fun with those. No, the other classes don't care that you have skills for all of those. We are just tired of listening to you whine about how everyone infringes on your precious right to use claws.

BM's have axe sword pole and fist mastery also they were the first to use all those weps.. other than barbs with axes but your bound to get 1 wep shared when you have a 4 wep dan sort of toon in the game. thus your statement is invalid now get of the forum and back under your bridge you troll.

i like the idea of a wep lock system but first you would need to cap aps at 3.33 (take away demon spark aps advantage and give 100% more damage so it can combat with sage spark 25% more def)
put a cool down on sparks, say 10 seconds on spark lvl 1 20 seconds on lvl 2 and 30 seconds on lvl 3, then raise the damage people do with there normal weps.

people say archer need fists but you dont. i have a 82 archer, im not saying i know this game inside out but i find my close range skills do a damn good job close range. and as for close up "tanking" a la non tank toon shouldn't tank... end of story, only in pwi is this even possible

doing this would allow pwi to start bringing in new weps such as spell books, magic gloves, samurai blades (holstered blade on the hip with more aps but less damage for bm's ftw) and many other great weapons that would let pwi be what is used to be, a breading place for ideas.

this game started as this huge customisable experimental experiance but its just "make this toon your your fail, get this gear or your fail, use this wep or your fail, 5aps or your fail" and its mostly all classes can achieve the same thing with the same gear. sounds nice but it dont work in an mmo. it results in drones walking about all doing the same thing getting bored and quitting.

OH and who else wants more lvl 85+ content that aint just pvp frost or bh? come on pwi rack your brains and think of another way for us to lvl so we dont have to just pile in frost all day loool why not another instance that gives the same amount of exp as frost but... is just different

Amencat - Sanctuary

i actually see only positive results if they would limit the weopons, more players are forced to play different classes for different purposes to try different weopons

newbie players cant make false choises which weopon to buy or to use

give the classes the roles they actually are designed for, and make a



CONSISTENT b:laughb:chuckle



Gamestyle,

and before i forget it, TY Traz for mention this: b:heart

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

halfadinnermint wrote: »

Every time I see this tired, dusty old excuse for a suggestion brought up, I think the same thing. If you want to make the weapons class locked, go all the way. Sorry BMs you just lost your right to axes/hammers because barbs need them. Oh, and kiss your swords goodbye too, since seekers have the rights to those all locked up. So, what's left? Fists/claws and spears. Hmm. Have fun with those. No, the other classes don't care that you have skills for all of those. We are just tired of listening to you whine about how everyone infringes on your precious right to use claws.

That was a very dumb post, if you have a mastery for it, it's your class weapon. That doesn't mean it has to be class locked to ONE class only.

it would be too much to comment for me, dont want to kill the feelings of the noobie,

Edit: or do I?
nvm XD

TanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver

Amencat - Sanctuary wrote: »

newbie players cant make false choises which weopon to buy or to use

give the classes the roles they actually are designed for, and make a



CONSISTENT b:laughb:chuckle



Gamestyle,





it would be too much to comment for me, dont want to kill the feelings of the noobie,

Edit: or do I?
nvm XD

you're learning b:laugh

Now if only we could work on the spelling, weapon is spelled with an "a", not an "o" as in weopon, and it's "choices" with a "c".

Also I think that they would seriously have to rebalance a lot of the weapons if they decided to limit classes to only their weapons. Bows need to be stronger so that archers don't get stuck doing half damage because they couldnt kill it before the enemy got to them.

You also have the problem of who gets what magic weapon? I mean most of the melee classes have a mastery for their weapon of choice, but magic classes usually just have an elemental mastery, so how do you decide who gets what weapon? Whoever gets glaives for the wheel of fate and devil hunter ring gets the better end of the stick until TT at 60. you have mystics, clerics, venos, wizards, and everyone can only get one type of weapon, so 3/4 classes are gonna get screwed over, which makes me like the idea less and less...

Also what would you do about BM? Do they get the sole rights to use all the melee weapons or just the ones they have masteries for? Because axes would be shared with barbs which is suppose is alright, seekers get their swords, archers get their bows, sins get daggers, psys get spheres, I suppose that way would be fine for melee, but magic could go badly b:cry

Amencat - Sanctuary

TanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you're learning b:laugh

Now if only we could work on the spelling, weapon is spelled with an "a", not an "o" as in weopon, and it's "choices" with a "c".

Also I think that they would seriously have to rebalance a lot of the weapons if they decided to limit classes to only their weapons. Bows need to be stronger so that archers don't get stuck doing half damage because they couldnt kill it before the enemy got to them.

You also have the problem of who gets what magic weapon? I mean most of the melee classes have a mastery for their weapon of choice, but magic classes usually just have an elemental mastery, so how do you decide who gets what weapon? Whoever gets glaives for the wheel of fate and devil hunter ring gets the better end of the stick until TT at 60. you have mystics, clerics, venos, wizards, and everyone can only get one type of weapon, so 3/4 classes are gonna get screwed over, which makes me like the idea less and less...

Also what would you do about BM? Do they get the sole rights to use all the melee weapons or just the ones they have masteries for? Because axes would be shared with barbs which is suppose is alright, seekers get their swords, archers get their bows, sins get daggers, psys get spheres, I suppose that way would be fine for melee, but magic could go badly b:cry

at least one of us b:laugh

you are obviously even to dumb to get the issue here,
all the magic classes would be restricted to the elemental weapons,
bms would be restricted they masterys,
and so on,

just like Traz explained it,

damn ... any of you other ppl have an idea how to get stalkers away? b:laugh
particularly the jerk ones?

get a life stop stalking me lol

TanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver

Amencat - Sanctuary wrote: »

at least one of us b:laugh

you are obviously even to dumb to get the issue here,
all the magic classes would be restricted to the elemental weapons,
bms would be restricted they masterys,
and so on,

just like Traz explained it,

damn ... any of you other ppl have an idea how to get stalkers away? b:laugh
particularly the jerk ones?

get a life stop stalking me lol

What elemental weapons? If you mean the magic ones does that mean magic classes just get to pick whichever magic weapons they want and melees get limited? That doesnt seem fair.

And you are just mad because you hate everything and everyone, get down off your high horse every now and then you cynical ****, if I wanted to stalk someone I'd pick someone better than you, don't flatter yourself.

NoLoveForMe - Lost City

TanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What elemental weapons? If you mean the magic ones does that mean magic classes just get to pick whichever magic weapons they want and melees get limited? That doesnt seem fair.

And you are just mad because you hate everything and everyone, get down off your high horse every now and then you cynical ****, if I wanted to stalk someone I'd pick someone better than you, don't flatter yourself.

LOL @ that QQ

EVIL PEOPLE FTW!!! b:victory

halfadinnermint

halfadinnermint wrote: »

Every time I see this tired, dusty old excuse for a suggestion brought up, I think the same thing. If you want to make the weapons class locked, go all the way. Sorry BMs you just lost your right to axes/hammers because barbs need them. Oh, and kiss your swords goodbye too, since seekers have the rights to those all locked up. So, what's left? Fists/claws and spears. Hmm. Have fun with those. No, the other classes don't care that you have skills for all of those. We are just tired of listening to you whine about how everyone infringes on your precious right to use claws.

Oh. Oh, god. Even I want to make fun of me. b:shocked

Remember kids: alcohol and the internet don't mix.

Traz - Dreamweaver

TanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What elemental weapons? If you mean the magic ones does that mean magic classes just get to pick whichever magic weapons they want and melees get limited? That doesnt seem fair.

And you are just mad because you hate everything and everyone, get down off your high horse every now and then you cynical ****, if I wanted to stalk someone I'd pick someone better than you, don't flatter yourself.

Elemental classes don't have "wand mastery" so there is no real restriction on them. If it has magic attack it's good for them. Trying to argue it's unfair they don't get limited is like saying it's unfair blademasters get to use claws when their mastery states "fist mastery"....

truekossy

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Elemental classes don't have "wand mastery" so there is no real restriction on them. If it has magic attack it's good for them. Trying to argue it's unfair they don't get limited is like saying it's unfair blademasters get to use claws when their mastery states "fist mastery"....

That's totally unfair. I mean come on! BMs have a fist mastery, meanwhile the barbs with a freakin TIGER FORM don't have "claw mastery"? WTF. b:angryb:angryb:angry

TanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Elemental classes don't have "wand mastery" so there is no real restriction on them. If it has magic attack it's good for them. Trying to argue it's unfair they don't get limited is like saying it's unfair blademasters get to use claws when their mastery states "fist mastery"....

Okay, so then the class limits would only be applied to melee classes then.

Also I just read your siggy, and it is awesome b:laugh